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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 04:20:52
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I was going to post a topic about Dragon 349 in general, but this article definately warrented a topic on its own. While I am going to go through it in a bit more depth later, just doing a quick skim through of the article I have to say that the authors really understood the problem that arose from some of the "Earth-like" 2nd edition areas and addressed it.
How?
Its not that the region isn't still influenced by real-world Mongolian and other Eastern cultures, but its all in how its added into the region. Siremun, Songfarla, the Thayan, and Imaskari influence in the region is all stressed enough that you do feel that this area is part of the Realms, even if it is remote.
The Realms elements are presented first, tied to the rest of the Realms, tied to D&D elements in general (gnomish and dwarven kingdoms, wizards, etc), then the "psuedo-Eastern" flavor is added in to give the region some unique character. I really like it, and in a lot of ways this is the order that they should look at any region that people used to say "its the X (X=Real World Culture) of the Forgotten Realms" in 2nd edition.
Plus, we got a 3.5 version of the Dzalmus . . . I love those guys.
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 05:52:56
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| Very good news. If they would only give all of Kara-Tur a much needed facelift. I will look for this issue of Dragon. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6662 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 07:18:54
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These particular writers knew what they were doing. By linking the Horde material with other, solid, more "FR flavoursome" material (which already existed in scattered products and magazines) it allowed them to root the setting into the Realms bedrock a bit more and shave off the "real world" aspects that were too jarring. A great job IMO.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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edbonny
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
157 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 17:56:14
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Glad you are enjoying it. Eric Boyd was instrumental in asking us to "Realmsify" this region... Laszlo and I needed little prodding to get that going.
What do you think of the region's new patron deity, the Red Knight? |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 18:03:10
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| Is this the current issue of Dragon? This is an issue i will want to pick up... |
ShadowJack |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 18:20:43
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quote:
Originally posted by edbonny
Glad you are enjoying it. Eric Boyd was instrumental in asking us to "Realmsify" this region... Laszlo and I needed little prodding to get that going.
What do you think of the region's new patron deity, the Red Knight?
 
The Red Knight is the patron of the Hordelands ??? |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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edbonny
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
157 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 18:23:46
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quote:
The Red Knight is the patron of the Hordelands ???
In an indirect but big way. A new realm has arisen in the Hordelands and this realm has whole-heartedly embraced the Red Knight. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 18:35:38
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quote:
Originally posted by edbonny
quote:
The Red Knight is the patron of the Hordelands ???
In an indirect but big way. A new realm has arisen in the Hordelands and this realm has whole-heartedly embraced the Red Knight.
that is nice to know 
I subscribe to the magazine and live in Canada so I won't be getting my mag until a few weeks after it hits the newsstands  so if you can't answer these questions now thats cool
Is it unofficial now that the Hordelands are part of Faerun now, instead of the buffer land between Kara-Tur and Faerun?
Was Semphar (sp?) updated?
Does this mean the Faerunian Pantheon now absorb the Hordelands?
Did Shou-Lung get any undates?
Did this article spark any plans at R&D for a clash of the "East and West" in Toril?
thanks alot!  |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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edbonny
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
157 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 18:50:40
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Is it unofficial now that the Hordelands are part of Faerun now, instead of the buffer land between Kara-Tur and Faerun?
The Hordelands have always been officially part of Faerun. In fact, Faerun ends where Kara Tur begins.
Was Semphar updated? Not enough room to write it up.
Does this mean the Faerunian Pantheon now absorb the Hordelands?
Faerunian gods are starting to have a bigger presence here, although the elemental gods, Kossuth in particular, have always been popular among the Barbarians.
Did Shou-Lung get any updates? alas, not in this issue
Did this article spark any plans at R&D for a clash of the "East and West" in Toril? No, but didn't you get enough with the Horde War?
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 19:01:12
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thank you very much Ed
quote:
Originally posted by edbonny
Is it unofficial now that the Hordelands are part of Faerun now, instead of the buffer land between Kara-Tur and Faerun?
The Hordelands have always been officially part of Faerun. In fact, Faerun ends where Kara Tur begins.
I never got that impression...from the Forgotten Realms Atlas, the Trail maps and even the FRCS 3.0 book I thought Faerun ended eastword at that jagged line running north-south through the Sunrise mountains and to the east side of the Raurin Mountains
quote:
Originally posted by edbonny
Did this article spark any plans at R&D for a clash of the "East and West" in Toril? No, but didn't you get enough with the Horde War?
 The Horde War to me wasn't East vs West...a war of Shou Lung vs a Western Power (like Thay or Mulhorond ) would be to me
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Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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edbonny
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
157 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 19:19:01
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
I never got that impression...from the Forgotten Realms Atlas, the Trail maps and even the FRCS 3.0 book I thought Faerun ended eastword at that jagged line running north-south through the Sunrise mountains and to the east side of the Raurin Mountains
I think each designer may have had a different take on just where the Hordelands stood: Part of Faerun? A no-man's land linking Faerun to Kara Tur? An independent continent? A discarded part of Kara Tur? The Horde boxset claims that the entire Hordelands are Faerunian. We tried to carry that idea throughout this entire article.
As far as the FRCS, I think the write up of the Endless Waste was done primarily that way because the entire Hordelands did not feel very Faerunian. If it were not for the presence of the Raumvirans in the area, the Hordelands might have conceivably been given even less space. To dedicate too large a chunk of space to the Horde as a Mongolian-based land would have been to detract from the careful and deliberate Faerunian feel that SKR worked so hard to put into the FRCS. Perhaps now the Hordelands will have a bigger part in the next FRCS book (whenever that is).
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 19:40:16
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quote:
Originally posted by edbonny
I think each designer may have had a different take on just where the Hordelands stood: Part of Faerun? A no-man's land linking Faerun to Kara Tur? An independent continent? A discarded part of Kara Tur? The Horde boxset claims that the entire Hordelands are Faerunian. We tried to carry that idea throughout this entire article.
As far as the FRCS, I think the write up of the Endless Waste was done primarily that way because the entire Hordelands did not feel very Faerunian. If it were not for the presence of the Raumvirans in the area, the Hordelands might have conceivably been given even less space. To dedicate too large a chunk of space to the Horde as a Mongolian-based land would have been to detract from the careful and deliberate Faerunian feel that SKR worked so hard to put into the FRCS. Perhaps now the Hordelands will have a bigger part in the next FRCS book (whenever that is).
thanks Alot Ed...I now have to wait patiently for my copy 
one last question...was there any touching upon trade routes like the Silk Road in the article? |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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edbonny
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
157 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 19:46:06
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
one last question...was there any touching upon trade routes like the Silk Road in the article?
The Golden Way has a brief entry, and it appears along with the Spice Road on the map. Because of space limitations and the sheer voluminous size of the Hordelands, this article focused on the northern part of the Hordelands, which meant leaving out the southerly Silk Road. |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2006 : 00:57:49
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quote:
Originally posted by edbonny
quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
I never got that impression...from the Forgotten Realms Atlas, the Trail maps and even the FRCS 3.0 book I thought Faerun ended eastword at that jagged line running north-south through the Sunrise mountains and to the east side of the Raurin Mountains
I think each designer may have had a different take on just where the Hordelands stood: Part of Faerun? A no-man's land linking Faerun to Kara Tur? An independent continent? A discarded part of Kara Tur? The Horde boxset claims that the entire Hordelands are Faerunian. We tried to carry that idea throughout this entire article.
As far as the FRCS, I think the write up of the Endless Waste was done primarily that way because the entire Hordelands did not feel very Faerunian. If it were not for the presence of the Raumvirans in the area, the Hordelands might have conceivably been given even less space. To dedicate too large a chunk of space to the Horde as a Mongolian-based land would have been to detract from the careful and deliberate Faerunian feel that SKR worked so hard to put into the FRCS. Perhaps now the Hordelands will have a bigger part in the next FRCS book (whenever that is).
Thats an interesting take. But I feel the Hordelands are faerunian in their way. |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2006 : 01:28:30
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quote:
Originally posted by edbonny
quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
one last question...was there any touching upon trade routes like the Silk Road in the article?
The Golden Way has a brief entry, and it appears along with the Spice Road on the map. Because of space limitations and the sheer voluminous size of the Hordelands, this article focused on the northern part of the Hordelands, which meant leaving out the southerly Silk Road.
Kalin, the Golden Way also receives some "recent" (minor) attention in the novel The Yellow Silk.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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EvilKnight
Learned Scribe
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2006 : 01:51:37
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Hello Ed,
Any idea when they will post the overload for the article on paizo.com?
EvilKnight |
Danali Index |
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edbonny
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
157 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2006 : 02:49:15
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quote:
Originally posted by EvilKnight
Hello Ed,
Any idea when they will post the overload for the article on paizo.com?
EvilKnight
Brian at Paizo said hopefully early next week. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11809 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2006 : 21:48:02
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Just wondering, in Zakhara there were the yak men, but there was an article in dragon on the yak men a few years ago (I think a dragon annual), that hinted that there was another "tribe" of yak men in the endless waste. Given their ties to the elemental dao and the somewhat predominance of the elemental lords in this area, it fits well with me. Was there by chance any expansion on this?
Also, as to this being Faerun or Shou territory, I've always felt that just like Unther was contested territory between pantheons, so is the endless waste. However, I put it as contested between the Mulhorandi, Faerunian, and Shou pantheons.... but the battle isn't very heavily fought since there's not much to gain. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 14:07:03
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Kalin, the Golden Way also receives some "recent" (minor) attention in the novel The Yellow Silk.
Thanks Sage, that is one of the few novels I haven't gotten to yet
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Just wondering, in Zakhara there were the yak men, but there was an article in dragon on the yak men a few years ago (I think a dragon annual), that hinted that there was another "tribe" of yak men in the endless waste. Given their ties to the elemental dao and the somewhat predominance of the elemental lords in this area, it fits well with me. Was there by chance any expansion on this?
I don't remember the mention that yak men being in the Hordelands but I did love that article (it isn't an Annual, can't rememebr the #)
I played in an adventure once a Yak Man invasion into Durpar and Var |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 15:47:50
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
I don't remember the mention that yak men being in the Hordelands but I did love that article (it isn't an Annual, can't rememebr the #)
I like the yak men (one of my favorite monster entries in MMII), and I love that article.
It was issue #241 BTW -- "Campaign Classics: The Roof of the World" (Wolfgang Baur). They're called the yikaria.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11809 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 21:25:31
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>>I like the yak men (one of my favorite monster entries in MMII), and I love that article.
>>It was issue #241 BTW -- "Campaign Classics: The Roof of the World" (Wolfgang Baur). >>They're called the yikaria.
Yeah, that was it. It was a very well done article, but then I think I've liked everything "setting-wise" that I've seen Wolfgang right (and he wrote some great modules for dungeon).
I did like the focus on the dwarves using sky stone in the article. I can't recall if that was canon before the article or if its something new they made up, but I'd love to see a little on it (i.e. is it a harder stone for construction (or does it crumble easier than say granite), cost estimates per square foot, cost for various colors of dye, etc...). Nothing major mind you, but if someone were to want to make a wizard's tower out of it, it might be good to note. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 23:18:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
I like the yak men (one of my favorite monster entries in MMII), and I love that article.
It was issue #241 BTW -- "Campaign Classics: The Roof of the World" (Wolfgang Baur). They're called the yikaria.
Well met
Ahh, Yak men, wonderful beings and appealed to me straight away as soon as I clapped eyes on them  Remind me a little of Beasts of Chaos too  |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 00:17:51
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Pazio have a stuck a Pdf containing stuff cut from the Horde article here
http://paizo.com/dragon/resources |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 00:46:55
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| My back issue hasn't arrived yet, this serves as a good sneak peak, and a good look it is. Paizo stayed on top of their web enhancements better than WotC. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 13:24:08
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| Seeing this Web enhancement makes me consider buying my first Dragon magazine for years. This really looks good. |
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VonRaventheDaring
Learned Scribe
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 15:55:39
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okay i have to say I love this Horde Article yes i had to drive an hour out of my way to get it, but it was worth it! :D I have to say i like the wonderful update and overview look for this previously forgotten region. I would love to see more on Siremun, those dwarves really intrigue me and i have to note that any realms that will accept gray dwarves back into their ranks is a step in the right direction. I would really love to see an update on Kara-Tur for kinda a after the horde update on events.
On a side note i must say the more Krash please, in scale mail amused me quite a bit. I feel the same way but was supprised someone actually wrote in, i guess i should do that myself more often to express my desire to Dragon. After all its true what they say if you don't participate you can't complain. (actually its Vote you can't complain but eh its generally right) |
"Develop the latent abilities within you for that is your power alone. Psionics is the ultimate art of magic and you are its practitioner. Through lifelong dedication, strive to unite your will with your physical form to become one. Only through the unrestrained union of one’s mind and body can the magic of psionics truly be mastered. Throw off the yoke of any who would impose tyranny upon you. Likewise, do not ever force another to submit to your will. Free your mind, free yourself and you have only just begun the path to true psionic mastery. Free others, open their minds to the Invisible Art, and you will show them way to Auppenser."
---Dogma of the Church of Auppenser |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 16:46:22
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| Indeed, I am still waiting on my issues from Paizo, but the free download they had was a great read! Good info! I can not wait to get my hands on George's article also. I am re-reading the Rage of Dragons and Impiltur has once again captured my imagination. |
ShadowJack |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 16:50:59
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quote:
Originally posted by VonRaventheDaring
I would love to see more on Siremun, those dwarves really intrigue me and i have to note that any realms that will accept gray dwarves back into their ranks is a step in the right direction.
In the web enhancement, I was pleasantly surprised that someone actually remembered those "off-shoot" dwarven communities in the Hordelands, let alone calling them gold dwarves (whom the shield dwarves evolved from)...those communities may be the eldest dwarven holds in the realms... |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Koushiro
Acolyte
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 21:25:55
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| I just got this month's issue yesterday, and I must say the horde article was quite well done, I just hope that WoTC and Dragon doese not take this to mean they can cross the hordelands off their list. I would love it if they continued to expand on this region. |
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VonRaventheDaring
Learned Scribe
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 22:08:40
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| I agree Koushiro and i hope that this hordelands article is just the begining of good realms articles, and information on the region. |
"Develop the latent abilities within you for that is your power alone. Psionics is the ultimate art of magic and you are its practitioner. Through lifelong dedication, strive to unite your will with your physical form to become one. Only through the unrestrained union of one’s mind and body can the magic of psionics truly be mastered. Throw off the yoke of any who would impose tyranny upon you. Likewise, do not ever force another to submit to your will. Free your mind, free yourself and you have only just begun the path to true psionic mastery. Free others, open their minds to the Invisible Art, and you will show them way to Auppenser."
---Dogma of the Church of Auppenser |
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Topic |
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The Horde Article in Dragon 349
