| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Sep 2006 : 20:34:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
You forgot the Spell Compendium! 
But yeah, I agree with you. I got Complete Arcane and Spell Compendium, and I stopped there. Since I buy all the FR books anyways, that's enough D&D Core material for me.
If you can't create a cool mage with Complete Arcane, Spell Compendium and all the FR books (each of which contain spells/feats useable by mages), I pity you! 
 I didn't include the Spell Compendium as it openly says it is not much more than a compilation of spells from other sources (and probably like 10% new stuff to tempt new collectors)
I don't own it as I own almost most of the books that it took it's spells from |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
 |
|
|
Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2006 : 05:53:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
You forgot the Spell Compendium!
But yeah, I agree with you. I got Complete Arcane and Spell Compendium, and I stopped there. Since I buy all the FR books anyways, that's enough D&D Core material for me.
If you can't create a cool mage with Complete Arcane, Spell Compendium and all the FR books (each of which contain spells/feats useable by mages), I pity you!
I didn't include the Spell Compendium as it openly says it is not much more than a compilation of spells from other sources (and probably like 10% new stuff to tempt new collectors)
I don't own it as I own almost most of the books that it took it's spells from
I thought the same until one of my players brought it to the game...
Although most spells were taken from other sources, almost all of them have been revised, corrected, or improved. Therefore, all the FRCS and Magic of Faerun 3.0 spells have been revamped and made fully compatible with the 3.5 rules, which is the main reason why I bought the book.
All spells are under two books now: PHB and Spell Compendium. That alone is a sufficient reason for me to acquire the book (yeah yeah: us poor DMs need all the help we can... you know the rant!  ) |
|
|
|
Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2006 : 16:33:05
|
yeah, I'm just about to leave to go get this book. I'm looking forward to it (because i love mages)
EDIT: JK its not out yet :( |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
Edited by - Beirnadri Magranth on 02 Oct 2006 04:43:16 |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2006 : 14:39:58
|
Just listened to the WOTC podcast on the subject (available here):
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pod/20061005a
They have some interesting ideas in this book. Reserve feats have to do with keeping one spell in reserve so that you can perform a lesser magical operation indefinately, as long as you have that spell in reserve. For example, if you keep a higher level fire spell in reserve and don't cast it, you can keep casting a 1st level or so fire spell indefinately, every round.
They also mentioned that they have alternate class abilities for various classes that are more innately magical than their current abilities, but at the cost of giving up some key abilities normally associated with the class (they mentioned necromancy channeling monks and spell reflective rogues, for example, but didn't go into specifics about the class ablities lost to gain these abilities).
They said that they wanted to create spells that were less about direct effects (you get X boost to this ability, or you do Y damage to a foe), and more about, on the first round, it does this, on the second, it does this, or it adds to another spell that you cast and alters it to this. They said they are limited, but not eliminating, direct damage new spells in favor of spells that create concepts or set up larger strategies.
Finally, they mention that the "second round" of Complete books won't likely have new core classes, but will give them a chance to add some new items to the core classes introduced in the "first round," and as such, the book will have some material for Warlocks and Wu Jen in it, for example. |
|
|
|
Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2006 : 17:04:15
|
| i ordered my book last week from b&n they said it woudl be here in 3-5 business days.... its been 6 |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
|
|
|
EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2006 : 21:06:20
|
My experience with B&N is that when you pay for expedited shipping, it takes forever, but when you pay for the cheapest shipping, it arrives two days later.
As for the book, I think it's quite good overall. I even wrote a Web Enhancement for it. To be fair, when I wrote the article back in July, I didn't think it would be a Web Enhancement, but it is finally ready now, so they made it a WE because it is on the same subject. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
Edited by - EytanBernstein on 13 Oct 2006 20:38:11 |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2006 : 21:45:46
|
| Eytan, I trusted you on Dragon Magic and I was pretty impressed with it. Not as impressed as I am with FR products mind you, and not as impressed as I was with Tome of Magic, but it was good. So if you are good with this, I'll definately have to give it a look. |
|
|
|
EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2006 : 21:58:42
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Eytan, I trusted you on Dragon Magic and I was pretty impressed with it. Not as impressed as I am with FR products mind you, and not as impressed as I was with Tome of Magic, but it was good. So if you are good with this, I'll definately have to give it a look.
Thanks. I really appreciate the trust. I think people will find a lot of material in Complete Mage that fills gaps or provides more options in areas of the game that people really want. This includes warlock invocations, soulmelds, alternative class features, new types of feats that give advantages to players with different interests. There aren't any more 20-level classes, so the book has even more room for options. The authors involved are very active, listening to all of the things you guys request. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2006 : 22:23:59
|
| One of the things that I have liked from what I have heard is that it has some options to give wizards and prepared arcane casters some interesting tricks as well. While I have thought that some of the new "twists" on sorcerers were interesting, I was worried because it seemed that wizards were being left in the dust by all of these flashy options. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36966 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2006 : 02:15:05
|
| My FLGS got the book in yesterday, along with Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2006 : 12:50:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
One of the things that I have liked from what I have heard is that it has some options to give wizards and prepared arcane casters some interesting tricks as well. While I have thought that some of the new "twists" on sorcerers were interesting, I was worried because it seemed that wizards were being left in the dust by all of these flashy options.
If anything, I wish there was more for sorcerers. I think they did a great job, but I still think sorcerers need a facelift. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12191 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 15:14:06
|
| big time sorcerors need a facelift. I'd never play one because they lack versatility, and if I wanted a "blaster" there's enough other classes to choose from. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36966 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 17:18:12
|
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
big time sorcerors need a facelift. I'd never play one because they lack versatility, and if I wanted a "blaster" there's enough other classes to choose from.
*blinks* The ability to cast any spell you know, whenever you need it, isn't versatile?  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 17:21:34
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
*blinks* The ability to cast any spell you know, whenever you need it, isn't versatile?
not when you can only cast 2-3 spells per level (low levels)
my limited experience with sorcerers is that usually their spelllists are always the same...the same "utility" spells, unless they are a "blaster" sorcerer
I'v also seen their equivelent, a "mender" favoured soul |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
|
|
|
Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 17:49:37
|
right but at higher levels some prestige classes let you learn hoards of spells
like
guild mage of waterdeep.
that rainbow servant prc
and many others.
so they progress slowly but its usually worth it.
anyway yeah i agree with purple dragon knight about spell compendium and now I am in love with it. some spells are original to it.
IM STILL WAITING FOR MY BOOK FROM B&N |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
|
|
|
EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2006 : 22:02:48
|
| I tend to use sorcerers a great deal more as NPCs than PCs. A 6th level party is in for a ton of pain against a 6th level sorcerer with fireballs. I rarely use them when playing, however, but many of you already know that I am fond of the non-core 20-level classes. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
Edited by - EytanBernstein on 12 Oct 2006 22:03:58 |
|
|
|
Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2006 : 06:40:55
|
So i got this book today and in between chores, errands and schoolwork I only managed to get a good looka t it now. Ive been reading through the beginning on ways to play the wizards. For once the strategies they provide aren't completely obvious! I really liked their ideas and pointing out which game stats are useful to whom. next, the feats! OMG
This is the best list of feats I've ever seen in any 3.0+ed sourcebook They have reserve feats which allow wizards to do cantrips basically, if they have spells still uncast. then they have these specialist focus feats that are just cool in addition to amazing new tactical feats and cool effects feats like a feat making your conjurations appear in a cloud of noxious smoke etc. I'm still reading it but this is one of the best purchases I've made on a core system book for a very long time! Kudos |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
|
|
|
Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2006 : 07:11:16
|
going back it looks like the artwork for the rings displays the dread ring or whatever not the arcane one as the dark looking one on the left.
the class ultimate magus is hideously broken
and two questions on the feats:
1- is teh penalty for ranged recall cumulative say if you use the three chances on the same spell? my guess is no
2- is the meta school focus feat allowed to reduce the metamagic adjustment to +0 lvls? my guess is yes.
still a great great book. |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
|
|
|
EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2006 : 20:40:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beirnadri Magranth
So i got this book today and in between chores, errands and schoolwork I only managed to get a good looka t it now. Ive been reading through the beginning on ways to play the wizards. For once the strategies they provide aren't completely obvious! I really liked their ideas and pointing out which game stats are useful to whom. next, the feats! OMG
This is the best list of feats I've ever seen in any 3.0+ed sourcebook They have reserve feats which allow wizards to do cantrips basically, if they have spells still uncast. then they have these specialist focus feats that are just cool in addition to amazing new tactical feats and cool effects feats like a feat making your conjurations appear in a cloud of noxious smoke etc. I'm still reading it but this is one of the best purchases I've made on a core system book for a very long time! Kudos
The reserve feats are generally quite a big more powerful than cantrips. They are on par with some fairly powerful spells. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
Edited by - EytanBernstein on 13 Oct 2006 20:40:35 |
|
|
|
Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2006 : 04:19:57
|
I meant in the sense that they are almost frivolous.... like teleporting items to your hand and changing your face. being able to see in the dark etc.
they are like 'siphon a soul' etc. |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
|
|
|
Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2006 : 15:10:47
|
Well, I don't think the Sage has any intention of picking this book up. I may, simply because I'm a wizard/magic/sorcery junkie . . . and I get the feeling there'll be plenty of material inside that will be useful for an EB campaign.
|
"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2006 : 16:40:00
|
It's not that I don't have any intention of picking this book up, I just haven't seen anything in it that makes me want to buy it.
Still, if you're going to buy it, I suppose I can always "borrow" your copy.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2006 : 18:28:43
|
I liked the reserve feats. I was a little hesitant to accept them at first, because if you always keep, say, meteor swarm in your reserve, you would have a 9d6 burst of fire every round. On the other hand, the more I looked at it, the more it occured to me that you aren't going to pick up reserve feats early on, and if you do, they won't be of much use to you. In the long run, they let you free up some of your low level spells for more "utility" spells instead of combat related ones, and they aren't too overbalanced, since you likely won't have too many of them, and if you run into something resistant to whatever your reserve combat feat is, you will still have to fall back on your spells.
On the other hand, I liked the utility reserve feats, such as the short range teleport and fly abilities, and those would help out in just the opposite manner to the ones listed above, i.e. so that you could free up more of your spell slots for combat since you can fly or teleport for short distances. I agree that the "teleporting something to your hand" effect doesn't seem spectacular, but its a cool, very wizardly thing to be able to do.
Still digesting other parts of this, but I liked the spells that allow you to fuse two spells into a spell slot and then cast them both together, thus letting a sorcerer get in some "quickened" effects. |
|
|
|
acro
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2006 : 20:31:53
|
| Ok I'm still new to forgotten realms and everything so I don't exactly know what I'm talking about but why not get this for any class and mix it with a mage or cleric class. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you could do that. |
Bring out those dusty tomes to be copied.
|
|
|
|
EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 02:03:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by acro
Ok I'm still new to forgotten realms and everything so I don't exactly know what I'm talking about but why not get this for any class and mix it with a mage or cleric class. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you could do that.
Generally, multiclass spellcasters are at a disadvantage for reserve feats. Multiclassing makes it take much longer to cast higher level spells. Few multiclass characters will be able to get a 9d6 attack from these because they won't have access to 9th level spells. A reserve feat only requires you to have a single spell to keep it going, but if that spell is high level, then the feat produces a more potent effect (usually). |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
|
|
|
acro
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 13:03:55
|
| Well thanks for the information EytanBernstein, I'll have to remeber it when I play. Thanks again. |
Bring out those dusty tomes to be copied.
|
|
|
|
Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 13:52:20
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I liked the reserve feats. I was a little hesitant to accept them at first, because if you always keep, say, meteor swarm in your reserve, you would have a 9d6 burst of fire every round. On the other hand, the more I looked at it, the more it occured to me that you aren't going to pick up reserve feats early on, and if you do, they won't be of much use to you. In the long run, they let you free up some of your low level spells for more "utility" spells instead of combat related ones, and they aren't too overbalanced, since you likely won't have too many of them, and if you run into something resistant to whatever your reserve combat feat is, you will still have to fall back on your spells.
On the other hand, I liked the utility reserve feats, such as the short range teleport and fly abilities, and those would help out in just the opposite manner to the ones listed above, i.e. so that you could free up more of your spell slots for combat since you can fly or teleport for short distances. I agree that the "teleporting something to your hand" effect doesn't seem spectacular, but its a cool, very wizardly thing to be able to do.
Still digesting other parts of this, but I liked the spells that allow you to fuse two spells into a spell slot and then cast them both together, thus letting a sorcerer get in some "quickened" effects.
I am still deliberating on the reserve feats..they still seem too powerful an ability to casually give...being able to blast with fire, acid, cold, electricity round after round (often a touch attack) causing more damage than any melee weapon weilded by an arcane (and most divine) spellcasters
my problem is mostly as these new feats of any type are produced they devalue the "core" feats from the Players Handbook and the earlier books...it is getting to the point if not for the requirements of PrCs my players barely ever choose a feat from the PH (except for a few combat/fighter feats)
It reminds me of how the Magic card game developed...as more and more expansions were developed cards were made to justify the expansion, cards that would have been considered overpowered in earlier sets |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12191 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2006 : 21:59:36
|
>>my problem is mostly as these new feats of any type are produced they devalue the "core" >>feats from the Players Handbook and the earlier books...it is getting to the point if not >>for the requirements of PrCs my players barely ever choose a feat from the PH (except for >>a few combat/fighter feats)
>>It reminds me of how the Magic card game developed...as more and more expansions were >>developed cards were made to justify the expansion, cards that would have been considered >>overpowered in earlier sets
Yes, that's my worry. I bought the book and haven't had much of a chance to look at it. I was worried with some other sourcebooks in the past though, and for the most part I haven't had to ban much so far. I'll give wizards one thing over TSR, they seem to be more focused on achieving game balance, which is why I've quit buying 3rd party stuff. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 05:22:22
|
Now that I own the book, I find that my first impression on Reserve Feats is that they're simply too powerful. I was figuring one would have to hold 7th, 8th and 9th level spells in reserve....but lower level spells?
Too much for too little if you ask me.
What I do like about this book is that it goes a very long ways towards facilitating play experience that jive with what we read about magical battles in Realms novels.
That is this book presents us with reactionary type feats (and some items) that let casters do more to react to things as they're happening or are about to happen, as opposed to reacting in the back and forth, seesaw approach of typical play.
Very good improvement, that.
I think I'll be finding uses for this book right away.
So, good and bad, but I like the book overall. |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
Edited by - Sanishiver on 19 Oct 2006 05:23:54 |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2006 : 13:16:04
|
I thought this myself when I first read the concept behind the reserve feats. I thought about weather low level spells would have any use, if any other feats might be worth while to take any more, and if these feasts replaced or made obsolete any other feats. While my gut reaction was yes, I started really thinking about what they do, and how they do it.
Granted, its great to be able to fling a 3d6 burst of fire every round, but it only affects a five foot square, and your opponent gets to save against it. That same firball that give you a five foot burst for 3d6 could be spent to blow up a 30 foot burst for 6d6 (minimum, with the CL boost from the feat). In all honesty, the reserve feats, depending on the level of spell that you keep from using to power them, are comparable to what you can do with, say scorching ray, which is only a second level spell. So as far as spells go, I don't think that it really throws anything damage wise out of whack.
On the utility front, you would have to spend one feat each for fire, cold, acid, electricity, and force, and force requires a higher level spell and does less damage than the other reserve feats do. If you also want to have the utility spells that allow you to fly or teleport or whatever else you may want, that's another couple of feats. Would you be willing to build a wizard where all of your extra feats go just to reserve feats? Metamagic feats are still pretty impresive, considering you can do things like casting two spells in a round, or maximize or empower spells for example. Plus, if you want to increase the DC of your spells, again, you will need some extra feats, and from what I gather, the DC of your reserve ability is what it is, you can't bump it because its not a spell.
While these feats seem pretty cool, and I would definately consider using them, at the same time, if you learn to make wands, for example, with one feat you are a little more versatile, and the cost of some XP and gold to make them. You can have a wand of fire, cold, acid, force, sonic, etc. for one feat, as long as you can afford the creation costs, and you don't run into the problem of not having the right reserve feat for a given foe if you have wands that can handle almost anything (for example, if you have a reserve feat that lets you deal fire damage, and you run into salamanders, or azers, etc.). I also thought about what I want to be able to do with a wizard, and I need all the feats that I can keep open.
Personally, as I get higher level with a wzard character, I would like to be able to activate buffs and defenses without wasting any time. Plus I would like to have the ability to use some defensive measures that I don't always want to memorize. I would need to be able to make magic items, contingent spells, spell mantles, or at the very least have some spells quickened in order to be able to pull off what I want to be able to do with a character like this. Plus, I would like to make sure the DC of my spells is such that they are taking full effect.
All of this, I guess, is just a long winded way of saying that I can definately still see some use for older feats in the Core rulebooks, and that it isn't so good that you can't imagine making a character without the feats. I can still easily see making a wizard without using the feats, and in a one on one duel, for example, I can't really picture one having an advantage over the other either.
Its just my take, and I could be off base. If anyone has come up with some other problems that I haven't thought of, It would be great to hear them, beacuse its always good to brainstorm these potential issues.
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Complete Mage
