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Kairin
Acolyte
40 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 20:30:37
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I read War of the Spider Queen and I read Erevis Cale trilogy. I liked both a lot and I want more books like them.. I'm pretty new to FR books (even if Salvatore of course crossed my path as well) and I would be really grateful for recommendations of books like them. I enjoy the books with a more evil/neutral focus, when the good guys aren't the main characters and win in the end. Any ideas of what I should buy? 
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 21:28:10
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Well met, Kairin.
I think you're going to be hard-pressed to find books focusing specifically on bad guy main characters, particularly who "win in the end." That said, there are a number of books out there that focus on less than "good" heroes.
Bob Salvatore has been writing about a pair of villainous heroes called Artemis Entreri and Jarlaxle, who show up in the Sellswords trilogy: Servant of the Shard, Promise of the Witch King, and Road of the Patriarch. I haven't read the latter two, but if it's about them. . . .
Of course, Paul's writing a trilogy that will start appearing this fall that focuses on Cale and co: The Twilight War.
As for WotSQ, Thomas M. Reid's writing a trilogy about Khaanyr Vhok and Aliisza (sorry if I slaughtered those names). (The title of his first book escapes me at the moment. . . perhaps I never actually knew it, actually.  ) Lisa Smedman's writing a follow-up novel about the Lady Penitent. Her first one's called Sacrifice of the Widow. I imagine these books may be up your alley.
The Fighters series has been somewhat "gritty": Master of Chains, by Jess Lebow, might serve well -- the title character is pretty N/NE by the end -- and my own Ghostwalker doesn't play nice with the traditional good/evil roles; the hero's very much *not good* (I don't mention GW in order to promote it, but only because your post very much reminded me of what I was shooting for in the novel).
The villainess of James P. Davis's Bloodwalk clearly steals the show -- a vengeful blood magus.
The Avatar series (from Shadowdale to Crucible) deals with some serious evil, mostly in the form of Cyric, who is -- in the words of a great philosopher of our time -- "the prince of F-in' darkness, man." 
Denning's Return of the Archwizards trilogy follows a protagonist who can't really be called "good" -- definitely neutral.
You know. . . maybe you won't be hard-pressed at all. . . .  
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 22 Aug 2006 21:30:42 |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 21:45:56
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Did WotC relax the TSR era code regulating stories where bad guys have to play nice and not win while good guys usually end up mopping the floor with them?
If so, we can probably see more meaningful conflict in FR books. Many of the novels/series that Erik named are fairly recent too, so maybe that's the first wave. :) |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 21:56:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
...The Avatar series (from Shadowdale to Crucible) deals with some serious evil, mostly in the form of Cyric, who is -- in the words of a great philosopher of our time -- "the prince of F-in' darkness, man." ...
I think that I need to know that great philosopher...  |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 22:01:07
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TSR's Code of Ethics (freedom is slavery; ignorance is strength) was replaced by a less fascist (I don't use that term loosely) Standards for Content, but what really matters is the current attitudes of the editors.
But the trend to non-good 'protagonists' isn't one I like. |
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Paec_djinn
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 00:40:13
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| I'm not sure but I considered Malik to be somewhat of the protagonist in Crucible, and I'm pretty sure he's evil. |
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FridayThe13th
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 02:01:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Paec_djinn
I'm not sure but I considered Malik to be somewhat of the protagonist in Crucible, and I'm pretty sure he's evil.
Malik? Yes, he is. Though many of the main characters in Crucible are the gods themselves.
FR tends to have a lot of anti-hero type characters in them, as do a lot of WOTC's books(Raistlin, Gord, etc). Emphasis the focus on the Drow. |
"The Lady of Pain? You mean Loviatar runs this place?"
-- Torilian Prime
"You guys should seriously rename yourselves The Horny Society, you popularity would soar."
-- A miscillaneous Kender to a member of the Horned Society
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 02:25:22
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quote:
But the trend to non-good 'protagonists' isn't one I like.
Same here.
I'd prefer people - normal people in weird situations. Not specifically 'non-good.' The majority of older novels focused on people who were just people. They weren't good *to be good*, but rather because normal people integrated into society as we know it tend to be good, or at worst, neutral. Even the "evil" people tend to act more neutral for their own sakes.
.. And yes, this is from a guy who loves Fiends and Undead, remember. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
Edited by - GothicDan on 23 Aug 2006 02:25:46 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 03:41:17
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
quote:
But the trend to non-good 'protagonists' isn't one I like.
Same here.
I'd prefer people - normal people in weird situations. Not specifically 'non-good.' The majority of older novels focused on people who were just people. They weren't good *to be good*, but rather because normal people integrated into society as we know it tend to be good, or at worst, neutral. Even the "evil" people tend to act more neutral for their own sakes.
.. And yes, this is from a guy who loves Fiends and Undead, remember.
I just want to throw in my agreement with Dan's sentiments -- that's what I strive to make my characters -- and offer a little warning to keep us from going into the good vs. evil, white vs. black vs. gray vs. whatever in fantasy literature debate.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Kairin
Acolyte
40 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 05:47:14
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Thank you so much Erik, that was an impressive list. It will take my a while to get through that ^^
I think I like those kind of books because I'm a nice person in real life. Sometimes it's satisfying to read about brutal people who does whatever they like, without thinking about the world around them.
The second reason is that I'm a bit tired of "heroes". Ordinary people in extraordinary situations is more facinating, and I don't think all of them would be heroic all the time. |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2006 : 05:57:34
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| Self-serving of me to mention this since I contributed to each series, but there's a Rogues series focusing on characters who are not entirely pure of heart, and a Priests series that features clerics devoted to evil gods. |
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Braveheart
Learned Scribe
Austria
159 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2006 : 14:23:05
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| If my memory didn't turn in to a black hole of forgetfulness, "Thornhold" by Elaine Cunningham features evil characters, but also "lawful good" characters who do evil in the name of their god. I can't remember another book where paladins were twisted into tools of evil so effectively as in "Thornhold". |
Jarlaxle: "Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."
Entreri: "And the real thing can kill you whether you believe in it or not." |
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Evil/Neutral focus
