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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 18:55:09
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Ooooh, that clarifies everything. Thanks. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 19:01:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Ooooh, that clarifies everything. Thanks.
No problem...
Im just remebering that cache of everything magical at her disposal in Elminster in Myth Drannor and wondering how much she stashed away for a rainy day and still has access to? Something that you could not explore a tiny fraction of in several days must be an immense quantity of artifacts, so only a small fraction would represent huge power. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 21 Jan 2011 19:03:32 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 19:24:06
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| Those several magical artifacts she had in EiMD are more than enough to make even a fledgling Red Wizard apprentice a fearsome foe should he come in possession of them. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 19:25:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Ed's comments in another scroll lead me to beleive the Srinshee(and isnt she about 10,000 years old?) would be the most powerful individual, it was something along the lines of never really stating her levels as to leave it open for her power to be more than any.
Any scibes remember just what Ed said ?
Hmmm. The Srinshee did not strike me as a head and shoulders more powerful when her and Elminster were facing off against Larloch's liches with the knights of Myth drannor.
Then again, Larloch, when he finally did arrive to talk with Storm, did not seem so invincible in that story. But Ed did explain that when queried.
Hmm...what that from Tears So White short story or somewhere else?
Yes, that was from Tears so White. In that story, Larloch seems a bit wary of Silverfire and they discuss how he has no defense against it. People used that as a way of assuming that he would not have a chance against any of the chosen. But Ed later elaborated on that.
Ioulaum's powers and status as an elder Brain are not very fleshed out. We know only that he exists still and his powerful apprentice also lives, although as a captive of Shade.
Another high level Caster who is still around is Demilich NecroQysar Shoon VII now in the body of Zallanora Argentresses. 36 levels of pure Necromancer. Yikes. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 19:33:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Ooooh, that clarifies everything. Thanks.
No problem...
Im just remebering that cache of everything magical at her disposal in Elminster in Myth Drannor and wondering how much she stashed away for a rainy day and still has access to? Something that you could not explore a tiny fraction of in several days must be an immense quantity of artifacts, so only a small fraction would represent huge power.
That is the scary thing about larloch. He is able to craft Epic items of all sorts, and according to the sourcebook, has access to just about all magical items in recoded history. In the Warlock's crypt, he can summon them with a thought. The spellpool in Warlock's crypt is also daunting. Not to mention the 25 Ioun stones that always circle his head haha.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 19:41:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Ooooh, that clarifies everything. Thanks.
No problem...
Im just remebering that cache of everything magical at her disposal in Elminster in Myth Drannor and wondering how much she stashed away for a rainy day and still has access to? Something that you could not explore a tiny fraction of in several days must be an immense quantity of artifacts, so only a small fraction would represent huge power.
That is the scary thing about larloch. He is able to craft Epic items of all sorts, and according to the sourcebook, has access to just about all magical items in recoded history. In the Warlock's crypt, he can summon them with a thought. The spellpool in Warlock's crypt is also daunting. Not to mention the 25 Ioun stones that always circle his head haha.
Er, I believe Red was talking about the Srinshee.
But you're right about those bits about Larloch, though, as far as my memory can attest. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 22:29:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Ooooh, that clarifies everything. Thanks.
No problem...
Im just remebering that cache of everything magical at her disposal in Elminster in Myth Drannor and wondering how much she stashed away for a rainy day and still has access to? Something that you could not explore a tiny fraction of in several days must be an immense quantity of artifacts, so only a small fraction would represent huge power.
That is the scary thing about larloch. He is able to craft Epic items of all sorts, and according to the sourcebook, has access to just about all magical items in recoded history. In the Warlock's crypt, he can summon them with a thought. The spellpool in Warlock's crypt is also daunting. Not to mention the 25 Ioun stones that always circle his head haha.
Er, I believe Red was talking about the Srinshee.
But you're right about those bits about Larloch, though, as far as my memory can attest.
I think he mentioned epic levels on top of those stats as well as spellfire/silverfire |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Erdrick Stormedge
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 22:40:29
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Ooooh, that clarifies everything. Thanks.
No problem...
Im just remebering that cache of everything magical at her disposal in Elminster in Myth Drannor and wondering how much she stashed away for a rainy day and still has access to? Something that you could not explore a tiny fraction of in several days must be an immense quantity of artifacts, so only a small fraction would represent huge power.
That is the scary thing about larloch. He is able to craft Epic items of all sorts, and according to the sourcebook, has access to just about all magical items in recoded history. In the Warlock's crypt, he can summon them with a thought. The spellpool in Warlock's crypt is also daunting. Not to mention the 25 Ioun stones that always circle his head haha.
Er, I believe Red was talking about the Srinshee.
But you're right about those bits about Larloch, though, as far as my memory can attest.
I think he mentioned epic levels on top of those stats as well as spellfire/silverfire
Ho ho ho!!
Ole' Bag-o-bones again! Nae allow the bards and propagandists to sell you on those old bogun-ballads! Larloch is all smoke and flash, nae a powerful spell-hurler! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2011 : 23:20:36
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Larloch is not a powerful spellcaster? I'm curious what Ed would say to that. Or rather, if he'd even bother to say a thing. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 00:48:28
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
also this from friend Sage :
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
That's nice. Good thing I found it.
But one of the sources says she's 46th level! Can anyone confirm it?
Hmmm. I seem to recall Ed provided some brief 'unofficial' 3e stats/rules advice for the Srinshee in the "Realmslore from Elminster in Myth Drannor" of The Annotated Elminster. Those stats declare the Srinshee as a 54th level character [Wizard29/Sorcerer16/Archmage9].
Are you telling me that she is higher lvl than Larloch??? Thats preette vild!
Again, from Ed, and quoted from the source referenced above:-
quote:
I want her to be more powerful that Larloch in raw wizardly casting power. Her stats should be staggering in power ...
Wow! Do I even need to reply here any more?  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 01:12:21
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| regardless of the current timeline,has any spellcaster including larloch and ioloum ever been as powerful as karsus. |
go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 01:25:11
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| The Srinshee is 54th level? Hmm...surpassing even Karsus and Ioulaum. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 02:09:59
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Remember, Larloch cannot touch or be attacked by silver fire as it would undo
all the spells, curses, enchantment, and rituals he has done to
himself to stay "alive" and functioning all these years. And, as Ed told me,
some of his appearence in tears so white is acting, I believe that he lied about
not being the one who directed the lichnee in the endevour there. But he
did end up being more sincere that he planned. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 02:55:02
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quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
Remember, Larloch cannot touch or be attacked by silver fire as it would undo
all the spells, curses, enchantment, and rituals he has done to
himself to stay "alive" and functioning all these years. And, as Ed told me,
some of his appearence in tears so white is acting, I believe that he lied about
not being the one who directed the lichnee in the endevour there. But he
did end up being more sincere that he planned.
Yes, it would be a huge inconvenience for him. Upon destruction, he would return to his phylactery and who knows what trouble his Lichnee would cause in the 10 days it takes him to reassemble.
If a contingency teleport upon harm did not get him out of there first that is.
There is however the possibility that he is able to send his soul to one of his servitor Liches bodies. in any case, I doubt he would like to lose his 25 Ioun stones and dozen other magic items he carries.
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Edited by - Firestorm on 22 Jan 2011 02:57:49 |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 02:56:23
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quote:
Originally posted by swifty
regardless of the current timeline,has any spellcaster including larloch and ioloum ever been as powerful as karsus.
Karsus cast the most powerful spell ever upon creating it. That does not necessarily mean he would be the nastiest guy in a spellduel. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 04:15:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Does anyone know if Symrusstar is still alive? or has that been discussed already?
Direct from Sage Schend:-
quote:
I made that scene both definitive and purposefully vague for a number of reasons. I established that Symrustar's Choker does not come off until a wearer dies, so that can be taken at face value that she died at least a little in that battle.
That said, there's no body. Now, most folks around here know me to be an inveterate comic book fan. And the unwritten rule of comics is: If there's no body, the character's not necessarily dead.
This leaves two avenues of story open for GMs--she's either dead or alive, depending on your tastes and needs of your campaign. As she was one of Mystra's Chosen at the time, she could easily allow her body to die (to allow her choker to spread magic through another) and reconstitute herself in a new form (with Mystra's help and encouragement). After all, look at how many forms and genders Elminster has been over the years; it's not hard to believe that an elf wouldn't also be able to do similar things.
In terms of FR canon, I'm afraid she has to be considered dead for the sake of storytelling (at the present time, anyways). As for why her body didn't survive, I'd think an exploding demon in her immediate vicinity might be enough explanation. If not, let's say his final spell opened up a portal to some plane of para-elemental fire or force or somesuch, and she made it all backlash on Malimshaer, destroying him mostly and having to sacrifice herself to close the portal. I'm not saying that's the most official answer to this matter--just another option to color the pages of history.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 10:45:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by swifty
regardless of the current timeline,has any spellcaster including larloch and ioloum ever been as powerful as karsus.
Karsus cast the most powerful spell ever upon creating it. That does not necessarily mean he would be the nastiest guy in a spellduel.
This. Just that you did something others didn't doesn't mean the others couldn't have done it to.
When you read Dangerous games of the Netheril Trilogy you see that Karsus enclave is loosing a war for fun against Ioulaum enclave without Ioulaum even there. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2011 : 21:04:51
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| That's because Karsus was not taking that war seriously. As the title suggests, it was just a "game." |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 00:08:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
That's because Karsus was not taking that war seriously. As the title suggests, it was just a "game."
Ioulam was also obviously not taking it seriously. Had both of them been taking it seriously, I daresay the history of the Realms would have gone in a vastly different direction. The original Netheril (instead of the shadow () of itself) might even be around, still! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 00:20:05
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| I don't think Ioulaum stood a stance against Karsus. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 01:09:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I don't think Ioulaum stood a stance against Karsus.
I really don't think we can say either way whether this is true or not. We've no real lore on this subject anyway. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 01:16:23
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| Ioulaum fled his enclave because he'd foreseen Karsus's attempt to steal Mystryl's divinity and the eventual fall of the empire. I don't think he'd willingly surrender his possessions---his enclave and everything and everyone in it---and his station if he had the power to stop Karsus. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 23 Jan 2011 01:31:25 |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 01:37:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Ioulaum fled his enclave because he'd foreseen Karsus's attempt to steal Mystryl's divinity and the eventual fall of the empire. I don't think he'd willing surrender his possessions---his enclave and everything and everyone in it---and his station if he had the power to stop Karsus.
According to the sourcebooks, Karsus was moved to cast that spell specifically because Ioulaum had disappeared from the empire and the high mages were fearful of a popular revolt due to the panic his disappearance caused the populace of high Nethril.
It was Larloch who was warned via contingency magic about the impending fall of his enclave due to the spell moments before it happened. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 01:44:33
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| So Ioulaum disappeared at a whim--- moments before the Fall? Hmmm, that's too much of a coincidence. He must have known. Either someone warned him, or he foresaw it himself. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 01:54:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
So Ioulaum disappeared at a whim--- moments before the Fall? Hmmm, that's too much of a coincidence. He must have known. Either someone warned him, or he foresaw it himself.
It was Larloch who left moments before the fall, warned by contingency magic, he rode off on Dragonback seconds before it fell.
Ioulaum left well before, causing a panic in the populace due to his popularity. This moved the high mages to convince Karsus to cast Karsus Avatar. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 11:01:57
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| Same thing. He vanished before the Fall. That's too unlikely to be a coincidence. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 12:52:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Same thing. He vanished before the Fall. That's too unlikely to be a coincidence.
The spell was allowed to happen because he vanished. Not vice versa. Ioulaum's disappearance during the war with the phaerimm moved the high mages into telling Karsus to do it.
It does not really matter. Nobody can stop another from casting a spell on a whim, or simply fly up to their enclave and stop them easily. Spellguards, wards and Mythallars prevent even the strongest of mages from simply teleporting over and saying "you can't cast that!". Saying "if he could have stopped him, he would have" is illogical in the sense of 1 on 1 combat. No 1 wizard can possibly march through an army of other archwizards to get to the head of a conclave and stop him from casting a spell.
In any case, if you want to read a full accounting of that in novel form, it is in the novel "Dangerous games" Arcane age series book 2. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2011 : 13:53:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Same thing. He vanished before the Fall. That's too unlikely to be a coincidence.
The spell was allowed to happen because he vanished. Not vice versa. Ioulaum's disappearance during the war with the phaerimm moved the high mages into telling Karsus to do it.
It does not really matter. Nobody can stop another from casting a spell on a whim, or simply fly up to their enclave and stop them easily. Spellguards, wards and Mythallars prevent even the strongest of mages from simply teleporting over and saying "you can't cast that!". Saying "if he could have stopped him, he would have" is illogical in the sense of 1 on 1 combat. No 1 wizard can possibly march through an army of other archwizards to get to the head of a conclave and stop him from casting a spell.
In any case, if you want to read a full accounting of that in novel form, it is in the novel "Dangerous games" Arcane age series book 2.
I already read that book.
You made it sound that Ioulaum was the reason Karsus cast his avatar spell. 'Tis the phaerimm that's the reason.
Below is taken from Dangerous Games scene where Karsus told Candlemas his ultimate goal:
quote:
"Oh, I decided now's as good a time as any." Karsus waved vaguely toward the fallen star as he said, "My helpers think all is ready—not that they really understand what I plan...
And I'm tired of being human. So I'll become an avatar, which is a being created from a god's body, in case you don't know. Karsus's avatar, named after myself. I figure to sit on the star, imagine myself ascending to godhood, and draw all the remaining energy through my spine into my brain."
Karsus decided (see the highlighted line above) on what time he would cast the avatar spell at a mere whim, not because Ioulaum vanished.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Top 50 Spellcasters "Alive" In Faerun
