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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Aug 2006 : 01:37:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
The trick, I think is to accept an idea of ‘up to standard’ that’s closer to what publishers can manage as opposed to what hardcore fans (who don’t manage budgets or make staffing decisions) want.
Hey, they (WotC) are the ones trying to get us to buy products. If I don't think a product is up to standard, I don't buy it. I think asking people to lower their standards for the sake of the publisher is, in a way, putting the cart before the horse. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2006 : 02:10:14
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Without tooting my own horn, I've personally put in a bunch of time and effort into a host of WotC products. For free. I consider myself diligent, meticulous, nigh-fanatical about FR consistency and continuity - and yet I've still missed stuff and made general errors. It's called being human. You might fault those at WotC for those errors and also look askance at those of us who "help out" for not catching them, and that's your prerogative, but if you think that those people involved in the product aren't busting their hump to write something great, then you've got rocks in your heads.
As for Jeremy's point about focusing energy on more positive FR pursuits, I agree wholeheartedly. It's something I've been saying myself for many years.
Now, to 'fix' that Wand of Orcus kerfuffle ... 
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2006 : 02:28:56
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Hello-
I ran this by a couple of people to see if it seemed appropraite or not. I got at least one 'thumbs up' - so I'm posting it.
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Hello-
I'm so sorry to have brought this up. I thought it was a wonderful setiment, and would be a better way of looking at those mistakes that DO happen - than having everyone up in arms about it. With a project this big, mistakes are bound to happen. With as many hands in it - it will continue to happen, like it or not.
Even if they hired someone like Steven Schend to exclusively act as a 'traffic cop' of the Realms - things Will slip through. Unless, of course - nobody minds waiting even Longer for newer information to come out. Even then - I beleive that it would only lessen the mistakes, not eliminate them.
Certainly - *I* want the big, obvious pain-in-the-behind problems to disappear. What does not really bother me are the smaller ones. Oh, you said Smeshlo Grimblethorn was a Male halfling in a 1st Ed Polyhedron article, and now in a 3.5 ed product Smeshlo is listed as Female? OH - gods help us! MISTAKE! P'shaw! Its is as Eric said - an opportunity for design. WHY is our beloved Smeshlo Female now? A curse? A run-in with a magical effect, mischief form a deity, etc? Maybe, Smesh WAS female all along - and was mistakenly referred to as Male - or was posing as male to get to do something, or involved with something that 'women-folk' should not be involved with. OR - was turned into Male 'before' the listing showing him as Male. The possibilities are neigh endless - and if you want yuor PC's involved - or even to notice the difference - it has a host of possible adventuring opportunities in it.
I think that if people would step back a moment and remind themselves that it is a game - and untimately Your game - we would be better off. People dont like far-reaching plots (whatever you choose to call them) - dont use them. People don't like certain novel-inspired storylines - likewise - dont use them. Some people want to stay as closely to printed Realms material as possible - but at the same time - complain that X, T, and Z occured. Having these events occur - when you want to stay as close to printed material as possible, is a choice you have made when deciding to be that straight-and-narrow. If you dont like Smeshlo being listed as Female - ignore it!
I really am getting tired of the people complaining about almost everything, those complaining about this or that that seems to contradict each other, those that step forward and say "no, no, thats not how its supposed to be - Ed says so" and those who continue to gripe about this or that - without trying to solve the problem themselves, and the people who dont offer up much in the way of constructive criticism, but would rather rip big holes in things - be they WOTC-released, or fan-released.
*I* for one am here for the level of knoledge that is shared, for the creativeness of those present, and the presence of those that write what we all read - all about the Realms. I still enjoy myself with it all - and try not to let small issues get in my way of having fun with it all.
Dhomal
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Adendum - I am very happy to see I am not entirely alone in my sentiments. Thanks George, Sanishiver. To those who don't agree - either in part, or wholesale - I respect your opinion. YOu have decided to disagree - in whole or in part - and have your valid reasons for doing so. Please, just respect *my* reasons for believing it it.
Many thanks.
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2006 : 02:51:55
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While I agree that we want go quality products, and while I have made some of the things I would like to see from WOTC, I also think that its easy to fall into a pattern of questioning everything first without just taking things at face value. For example, while some changes from one product to another might indeed be a mistake, other changes may have been intentional changes that, for one reason or another, weren't explained in the product itself.
I've thought about this a lot, especially when it comes to sequels to movies and books (outside of the Realms as well, in all sorts of pop culture venues), about preconcieved notions getting in the way of one's enjoyment of something. I guess all I can say is that sometimes getting too cynical can really cause some problems with one's enjoyment of one's hobbies. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2006 : 03:03:42
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
...if you think that those people involved in the product aren't busting their hump to write something great, then you've got rocks in your heads.
Who said that? Please, tell me--I really want to know.
I'm not trying to be contrarian so much as skeptical. I'm just not buying everything that Sani is selling, so to speak. I can agree with focusing on the positive, but I don't think that means we all have to blithely dismiss mistakes (or relabel them as "creative opportunities" to make them more palatable--I can't stand that kind of political correctness), nor do I feel we have to accept all the arguments being tossed out in favor of focusing on the positive.
There is a such thing as agreeing with the conclusion, but not the path used to reach it. And for someone who talks about "focusing on the positive", I don't think Sanishiver's comments about Candlekeep forum-goers were very nice at all (you're one of us, George). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 21 Aug 2006 03:07:13 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2006 : 03:08:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal
I really am getting tired of the people complaining about almost everything...
People such as...? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2006 : 03:18:26
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| We don't need to know who. This thread has become seriously derailed. Let's get it back on topic, folks, and stop arguing about mistakes. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Arkhaedun
Senior Scribe
869 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2006 : 03:20:25
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As Sage and Wooly said before, we need to quit making this personal. This thread was started to discuss the information that several of our scribes picked up from attending GenCon, not as a discussion on the members of this forum, nor on retcons or any other topic.
Please return to discussing the information that came from the seminar mentioned in the threads title, and please leave off of any discussion of each other.
Thank you. |
Edited by - Arkhaedun on 21 Aug 2006 03:20:51 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2006 : 03:47:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Who said that? Please, tell me--I really want to know.
It's that implied thing. You know, the same as the comments that you thought Sanishiver was implying re the members of Candlekeep ...
quote:
I'm not trying to be contrarian so much as skeptical. I'm just not buying everything that Sani is selling, so to speak. I can agree with focusing on the positive, but I don't think that means we all have to blithely dismiss mistakes (or relabel them as "creative opportunities" to make them more palatable--I can't stand that kind of political correctness), nor do I feel we have to accept all the arguments being tossed out in favor of focusing on the positive.
Hey, the glass is half-empty. I gotcha. And I can't recall where you've been asked as an FR fan to 'blithely dismiss mistakes' [understanding of course that there is a difference between a mistake (wrong date) and a creative decision (the introduction of a new cosmology)]. Even so, rest assured that I along with many others are doing what we can to fix the 'errors' that do unfortunately pop up from time to time. Sometimes it leads to some wonderful realmslore.
quote:
There is such a thing as agreeing with the conclusion, but not the path used to reach it. And for someone who talks about "focusing on the positive", I don't think Sanishiver's comments about Candlekeep forum-goers were very nice at all (you're one of us, George).
Actually, I was 'one of them' before I was 'one of us' and am still 'one of them'.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2006 : 03:52:30
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
It's that implied thing. You know, the same as the comments that you thought Sanishiver was implying re the members of Candlekeep ...
Well, if you want to think I implied that, "it's your prerogotive", I guess. That'd be the perfect comeback, if it were true.
quote:
Hey, the glass is half-empty. I gotcha.
You think skepticism means "the glass is half-empty"? Nope, that's pessimism. I am, on the whole, about as pessimistic as I am optimistic (about half and half). Skepticism is about asking questions, and not simply taking things for granted because they sound nice.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2006 : 03:53:43
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Actually, I was 'one of them' before I was 'one of us' and am still 'one of them'.
Just for your information...I know that. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2006 : 03:58:50
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| We're done here. Gencon is over and this is getting out of hand. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Secrets of the Realms
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