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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Aug 2006 : 19:19:51
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So you were the Silverymoon guy, Dhomal? Sorry we didn't get to meet and exchange handshakes (same with ye others who were there). I was skulking in the middle of the room for a bit.
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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createvmind
Senior Scribe
490 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2006 : 22:43:52
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| Damn I'm mad that I didn't wake up in time to meet staff and candlekeep members at Gencon. |
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2006 : 04:11:15
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| lol, creative, haven't you picked up that we really didnt meet? :P |
"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2006 : 05:56:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
So you were the Silverymoon guy, Dhomal? Sorry we didn't get to meet and exchange handshakes (same with ye others who were there). I was skulking in the middle of the room for a bit.
Steven
Hello-
Aye - that was me. :) I felt it was somewhat rude of me to cut the other guy's request for a mega-tome of Waterdeep off like that - but there is SOOOoo much on Waterdeep already - and its not That hard to get most of it, considering he would be willing to pay 100-125 or so for the mega-tome - he could probably come close to getting all the stuff that already exists for that amount.
Also, we did meet - somewhat briefly. I was at your Author's Alley signing - where I admited that I have not yet read Blackstaff, but would likely be starting it either on the way home - or soon after. Events have conspired against me - catching up on housework (mowing, mainly!) that piled up while I was gone. I'll get to it soon though - lunches at work are a good reading time for me.
I think that a bit more planning - like having a table and/or room next year will help a lot on this front. I'm brainstorming ideas for this as we speak - and hope that Candlekeep as a whole can pull something off for the con next year.
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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Ateth Istarlin
Seeker
United Kingdom
80 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2006 : 12:31:35
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| PLEASE GOD, No more MotM-style products! More SM-style would be far better. |
The more I read about 4FR, the more depressed I am.
Politician - An elected official who tries to be all things to all people, while always looking out for his/her own interests first. |
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2006 : 12:40:06
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| MoTM and SM-Style? |
"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
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Ateth Istarlin
Seeker
United Kingdom
80 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2006 : 13:01:32
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MotM = Mysteries of the Moonsea.
SM = Silver Marches. |
The more I read about 4FR, the more depressed I am.
Politician - An elected official who tries to be all things to all people, while always looking out for his/her own interests first. |
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2006 : 13:09:58
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Gotchas.
Yes well, they never listen to us so whats the point? :P |
"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2006 : 15:08:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
So you were the Silverymoon guy, Dhomal? Sorry we didn't get to meet and exchange handshakes (same with ye others who were there). I was skulking in the middle of the room for a bit.
Steven
Hello-
Aye - that was me. :) I felt it was somewhat rude of me to cut the other guy's request for a mega-tome of Waterdeep off like that - but there is SOOOoo much on Waterdeep already - and its not That hard to get most of it, considering he would be willing to pay 100-125 or so for the mega-tome - he could probably come close to getting all the stuff that already exists for that amount.
Also, we did meet - somewhat briefly. I was at your Author's Alley signing - where I admited that I have not yet read Blackstaff, but would likely be starting it either on the way home - or soon after. Events have conspired against me - catching up on housework (mowing, mainly!) that piled up while I was gone. I'll get to it soon though - lunches at work are a good reading time for me.
I think that a bit more planning - like having a table and/or room next year will help a lot on this front. I'm brainstorming ideas for this as we speak - and hope that Candlekeep as a whole can pull something off for the con next year.
Dhomal
<Steven smacks himself in the face, peeking disgustedly through his fingers ala Moe Howard as he embarrasses himself with his bad memory.>
Sorry about the brain crash, Dhomal. Hope you had a great GenCon; I'll have to make sure I have more than 2 days to spare for it next year...
SES |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2006 : 04:48:10
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| For the life of me I don't understand what the point is to having so many RSE in novels and never having them impact the gaming product. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2006 : 07:11:50
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
For the life of me I don't understand what the point is to having so many RSE in novels and never having them impact the gaming product.
I agree with your logic, but I wont complain as for me personally, the less I see of these effects in my gaming material the happier I am. |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2006 : 07:32:25
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
For the life of me I don't understand what the point is to having so many RSE in novels and never having them impact the gaming product.
Some gaming products do reflect major events in the Realms.
Dragon's of Faerûn talks at length about the last Rage of Dragons, for example.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2006 : 14:49:44
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We all have to keep in mind though as annoyed to hell as we all are getting with these RSE's, we do not have to have any of them into our games.
Remember, their our games, not theirs. If your characters where involved or heard of all of these RSE's going on, they'd go insane and rather live in Hell then Toril. |
"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2006 : 17:50:47
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quote:
We all have to keep in mind though as annoyed to hell as we all are getting with these RSE's, we do not have to have any of them into our games.
Remember, their our games, not theirs. If your characters where involved or heard of all of these RSE's going on, they'd go insane and rather live in Hell then Toril.
However, we are still the ones potentially paying for these products. So it's good for WotC to know that if they are more likely to do this or that, then we are more likely to pay them to do it. And I think that's what everyone wants, in the long run: to pay WotC for what they want. The hard part is just figuring out how to best appeal to both the various buying groups and WotC themselves. :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2006 : 20:31:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Neriandal Freit
We all have to keep in mind though as annoyed to hell as we all are getting with these RSE's...
For the record, I’m officially not annoyed by any of the major events (can’t bring myself to use “RSE” --just doesn’t feel right) that have occurred in the novels of late.
On the contrary I’m happy inasmuch as I have plenty of events I can drop in (as rumors, hints or outright BOOM events, if I want) to show my players that the campaign world is alive and active around them.
quote:
Originally posted by Neriandal Freit
...we do not have to have any of them into our games.
....I couldn’t have said it better myself. Wise words indeed that are not only well worth remembering, but also 100% true.
That said Dan’s point is equally valid: WotC needs to hear what we have to say.
The thing I like about what’s been going on in the novels of late is that they’re not so expansive that one event alone changes everything. That is, beyond the luxury Realms DMs have to ignore or incorporate novel/sourcebook events as they see fit, the events themselves (such as the return of Shade, the Rage of Dragons, etc...) are ‘small’ enough that DMs whose campaigns aren’t in the area in question don’t even have to bother with figuring what they will or won’t use.
To me that’s good WotC planning, and something I hope they continue with.
As it relates to the future of the gaming products, I hope that WotC continues to do in future books what they did with Dragons of Faerûn. That is, give a synopsis of recent campaign world events as they relate to the subject/area each book covers and combine that with lore, rules and campaign hooks so both DMs and players can experience what’s going on in the Realms.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2006 : 21:47:36
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Except Sanishiver that Rage of the Dragon took 3 years in our world to complete and almost 4 years to get a source book on it. The novels are moving into another year and the source books, for the most part, are reprinting information we ALREADY HAVE in our AD&D products, with little to no update Realms lore in them.
Now if all I wanted from a source book were D20 stats for this character or that (and there are plenty that haven't been stat'd from top to bottom!) then that's a great way for me to spend my $30. However, if I want information of post-Last Mythral Moonsea/Dalelands I look at Mysteries of the Moonsea and get NOTHING.
Maybe Wizards is just afraid of another Hunter Blades/Silver Marches incident. If that's the case then maybe they shouldn't be releasing source books that have tie in products. For example, instead of Mysteries of the Moonsea we could have gotten a Sword Coast regional book.
Would it have fit into a pretty little Marketing package that none of us care about? Absolutely not. Would it have AVOID further displays of Wizard's inability to plan and design related source books and novels, absolutely. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
Edited by - SirUrza on 19 Aug 2006 21:49:01 |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2006 : 22:11:21
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C'mon Urza, we've both been around long enough to know the "...they're just reprinting, there's nothing new!" line is just a stereotype.
Think of it this way: Would you have Dragon's of Faerûn come out at the beginning of the novelization of The Rage of Dragons, and spill the beans ahead of time? Or in the middle of the novel releases, but do the same?
It just makes sense to wait until the series runs its course before printing a sourcebook about it.
I think I can see where you're coming from on Mysteries of the Moonsea, but I wonder: how many gamers read both the novels and the sourcebooks concurrently? And of those, how many are DMs who want/need to know what's happened in a region just after novels that effect some part of that region have been written?
If I had to guess, I'd say not that many. Or at least not enough to warrant a higher level of novel/sourcebook integration.
I think there's a firm desire amongst 'elite' fans (that is, Realms fans who go online to talk about the Realms outside of gaming and reading novels, and who like to make their voice heard), but not much beyond that.
On a positive note, with word of further integration between novels and gaming at WotC, mayhap we'll see a faster turnover on novels-to-sourcebooks?
Time will tell!
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
Edited by - Sanishiver on 19 Aug 2006 22:14:13 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2006 : 22:33:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
For the life of me I don't understand what the point is to having so many RSE in novels and never having them impact the gaming product.
I agree with your logic, but I wont complain as for me personally, the less I see of these effects in my gaming material the happier I am.
I really have to say I agree. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Arkhaedun
Senior Scribe
869 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2006 : 23:49:51
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| I just wanted to thank those scribes of ours that attended the seminar and took notes, and were kind enough to post their notes here. I also wanted to thank our regular authors and designers that chimed in as well. Hopefully next year I can see some of this in person, but until then, once again, thanks. |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2006 : 02:23:15
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Hello-
I'm not sure if I mentioned this elsewhere or not.
Eric Boyd had something very insightful to say about discovered inconsistencies in the Realms:
"They are an opportuninty for creative design"
or something very similar. :)
I think it is one of the best ways to look at things. In some ways - it is almost like the old Marvel No-Prizes for fans who found an error - and then sent in an explanation as to why it is NOT an error. The designer get the joy of 'plugging the hole' and craeting more out of the fix than there had been in the past.
In fact, its one of the best things I cam away from the con with - and it was Free!  I am just surprised that I forgot to mention it earlier in this thread, as I think this is the place where I heard him say it.
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2006 : 02:30:22
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| Of course, it's usually better to just not be wounded then to try to heal the wound creatively after thef act. ;) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2006 : 02:49:10
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Of course, it's usually better to just not be wounded then to try to heal the wound creatively after thef act. ;)
My sentiments exactly. Let's not dress up something undesirable (accidental inconsistencies) as something desirable (opportunities for the joy of creation!). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2006 : 06:29:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal
Eric Boyd had something very insightful to say about discovered inconsistencies in the Realms: "They are an opportuninty for creative design"
Very, very good point.
Worth repeating: "They are an opportuninty for creative design"
This was a halmark of the Realms-L list. There were folks on that list who caught things and didn't complain or cry foul; instead they thought about the Realms first and came up with creative and cool explanations to fix possible inconsistencies or errors.
This is also how those folks made their well-deserved reputations. Some of them write Realms books even now. 
I wish the regulars at Candlekeep did more of this. 
As far as errors/incosistencies go, I try to see things from cold hard reality: they will happen. That and there's only so much time and money that any company can afford to spend error checking and proofing.
Since this is true, I think it's a waste of time to complain over-much. Better to get over it and fix it.
Again, something this place would be (and is, to a degree) good at.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
Edited by - Sanishiver on 20 Aug 2006 06:32:16 |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2006 : 07:28:07
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quote:
I wish the regulars at Candlekeep did more of this.
I think the vast majority of people do this AND complain. Doing work ourselves is cool and fine, but that doesn't mean we don't mind flawed books. Any time a service is provided, one has a right to complain about the service if, after they have paid for it, there is a perceived flaw.
I'm NOT saying that the work that Eric and co. have done hasn't been amazing. It's just upsetting that they had to do it in the first place.
As Ed says, CONTINUITY is first and foremost. :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
Edited by - GothicDan on 20 Aug 2006 07:30:09 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2006 : 08:10:16
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Right--aren't most of us spending money here? On products that should be as consistent as possible? If a product is flawed, I think people have the right to talk about it, for goodness sake...besides, isn't that what messageboards are for: giving opinions?
If opinions give people a "", too bad. Roll with the punches. And Sani, I have the feeling you are looking at a certain old community with nostalgia. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 20 Aug 2006 08:11:52 |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2006 : 09:24:44
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Hey everyone,
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Any time a service is provided, one has a right to complain about the service if, after they have paid for it, there is a perceived flaw.
This is something I think both you and Marybeth are mixing up.
WotC provides no services to anyone. They provide products. Those products include (amongst other things) sourcebooks and novels on/about the Forgotten Realms.
What you’re getting at is consistency. That is, a customer expectation that products be reasonably consistent with prior products that touch on the same element of the campaign setting.
It’s not a ‘service’ issue if a customer finds something they perceive to be inconsistent. Nor is the finding of such any cause for a customer to become offended or ‘hurt’.
If a customer finds what they think is a sourcebook flaw, they can return the book to the retailer, alert WotC customer service to the error, work with others online to find a ‘patch’ and/or ignore the flaw and move on.
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
It's just upsetting that they had to do it in the first place.
To you, maybe. Ever ask Eric or George if it was something that bothered them to have to do?
Anyway, note that being upset is a kind of feeling. I don't think the majority of gamers take the setting that seriously. Or at the very least they realize mistakes happen in all walks of life -including publishing- and so it’s no big deal. Game on, and all that.
This is why arguments that state "This sort of thing should never happen!" are so obviously flawed.
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
On products that should be as consistent as possible?
Note your use of “as possible”. I’ve seen over the last decade that the meaning of that phrase differs hugely between fan and publisher.
There’s also the fact that this -at its core- a subjective opinion. I mean really, why should there be a high level of consistency (on the order of consistency desired by online-participating Realms fan types) between say the novels and sourcebooks?
After all, haven’t we seen how the early Realms made good use of ambiguity and uncertainty, to the benefit of DMs everywhere?
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
If a product is flawed, I think people have the right to talk about it, for goodness sake...besides, isn't that what messageboards are for: giving opinions?
I don’t dispute that people have a right to talk about it at all. What I’m getting at is that -after the ten hundredth post on the same subject- isn’t it smarter to move past the belly-aching and on to the part where the most qualified fans in the world actually come up with fixes and then post them so the people who need them (DMs or novel fans with questions) can use them?
Messageboards (and email lists, before them) are as much a tool for problem solving and information sharing as they are for airing one’s judgments about things.
We should be the ones finding the flaws, alerting WotC and helping each other to deal with them as a community.
“We shouldn’t have to” is a lazy copout.
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
And Sani, I have the feeling you are looking at a certain old community with nostalgia.
Am I nostalgic for it? Yes, absolutely. Am I allowing myself to forget the super-human level of stupidity demonstrated by otherwise sane and highly educated people in that list? Hardly not.
There’s a reason I wrote, “...there were folks...” as opposed to “everyone”.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
Edited by - Sanishiver on 20 Aug 2006 09:29:52 |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2006 : 09:47:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Of course, it's usually better to just not be wounded then to try to heal the wound creatively after thef act. ;)
My sentiments exactly. Let's not dress up something undesirable (accidental inconsistencies) as something desirable (opportunities for the joy of creation!).
Amen. That's incredibly inane and more than a little tacky.
quote:
Originally posted by Dhomal
Eric Boyd had something very insightful to say about discovered inconsistencies in the Realms:
"They are an opportuninty for creative design"
or something very similar. :)
Oh, yes. Just like bugs in programs are "undocumented features", right? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2006 : 10:18:48
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Just a friendly reminder here fellow scribes... let's try to remain civil here.
I'd hate to have to close down what has otherwise been a rather intriguing debate, just because of a few recent harsh comments.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2006 : 20:23:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
I don’t dispute that people have a right to talk about it at all. What I’m getting at is that -after the ten hundredth post on the same subject- isn’t it smarter to move past the belly-aching and on to the part where the most qualified fans in the world actually come up with fixes and then post them so the people who need them (DMs or novel fans with questions) can use them?
Messageboards (and email lists, before them) are as much a tool for problem solving and information sharing as they are for airing one’s judgments about things.
And I think there is already plenty of that here--I've seen it. Also, let's face it--most people are going to want to speak their minds about a product (with comments positive and negative) regardless of whether "ten hundred" people have already done so.
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We should be the ones finding the flaws, alerting WotC and helping each other to deal with them as a community.
Why? I agree with your last point, but I'm not entirely sold on the first one.
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“We shouldn’t have to” is a lazy copout.
A copout it might be, if it's our job to make sure a product is up to standard. I just don't see how it is.
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Am I nostalgic for it? Yes, absolutely. Am I allowing myself to forget the super-human level of stupidity demonstrated by otherwise sane and highly educated people in that list? Hardly not.
There’s a reason I wrote, “...there were folks...” as opposed to “everyone”.
But consider the way you contrasted this old community with Candlekeep. You didn't out-and-out SAY that the folks here are a bunch of lazy, grumbling complainers who don't want to lift a finger to actually help anyone, but it seemed to me like you implied it. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2006 : 01:19:07
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Hi Rin,
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
And I think there is already plenty of that here--I've seen it. Also, let's face it--most people are going to want to speak their minds about a product (with comments positive and negative) regardless of whether "ten hundred" people have already done so.
Aye, that last is all too true.
As to the first part...I see it too. Note I’m officially not in the position to judge, but as one community member to another I don’t think there’s enough of it. We can do better.
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Why? I agree with your last point, but I'm not entirely sold on the first one.
Because we’re the fans. Think about it, the Realms-L list has died down to a trickle from what was once (according to Steve Allen from that list) a 1300+ post count per day. If we’re all that’s left as far as online resources go, then yes, let it be us.
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
A copout it might be, if it's our job to make sure a product is up to standard. I just don't see how it is.
The trick, I think is to accept an idea of ‘up to standard’ that’s closer to what publishers can manage as opposed to what hardcore fans (who don’t manage budgets or make staffing decisions) want.
Think about it: if we allow them a little leeway, then we get the chance to chime in and have our say on the fixes.
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
But consider the way you contrasted this old community with Candlekeep. You didn't out-and-out SAY that the folks here are a bunch of lazy, grumbling complainers who don't want to lift a finger to actually help anyone, but it seemed to me like you implied it.
I suppose I did. My purpose wasn’t to offend, though, but to get people to think twice about how they spend their time/energy while they’re here.
With that I’m done.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
Edited by - Sanishiver on 21 Aug 2006 01:26:22 |
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Secrets of the Realms
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