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BrutalAttack
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 14:37:43
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I know this seems like a strange question but I have a couple of characters in my campaign that are going to spend the winter trapping for fur and whatever else they can find. They will be up around the Spine of the World.
Questions:
1. Does anyone have any kind of idea what the prices for various furs may be in the Realms?
2. What other ideas might you have for any other types of activities these characters could engage in? For instance, spell component collection for resale, other types of commercially desirable commodities like parts of monsters or live monsters etc.
Any ideas would be great thanks.
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 14:49:27
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quote:
Originally posted by BrutalAttack
I know this seems like a strange question but I have a couple of characters in my campaign that are going to spend the winter trapping for fur and whatever else they can find. They will be up around the Spine of the World.
Questions:
1. Does anyone have any kind of idea what the prices for various furs may be in the Realms?
2. What other ideas might you have for any other types of activities these characters could engage in? For instance, spell component collection for resale, other types of commercially desirable commodities like parts of monsters or live monsters etc.
Any ideas would be great thanks.
There is a really old Dragon Magazine (1st Ed. era) whose main arcticles were dedicated to wilderness survival and such...it included prices in gp for furs, tusks and other normal/fantasical animal products..
the problem with harvesting monster parts is that it is a select market and demand is variable...the higher the demand the more dangerous the material to get thus the more lethal the challenge to your PCs 
your two main branches for that buisness is eithor going out of your PCs "base/HQ" and hunt down and get the materials or "create" the materials on your own (i.e. breeding through magic alteration, deepspawn or old fashioned husbandry)
if you want to collect/hunt down materials I would widen your search to also include rare minerals and woods...you can imagine your PCs returning home with wagon loads of furs, tusks, lumber, gems and rare ores, herbs and the captured young of fantastic creatures...non-sentientcreatures...otherwise thats slavery  |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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BrutalAttack
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 14:54:50
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Seems like at one point I remember a post on WoTC or another forum that had an ad-hoc list of fur prices. I guess it could have also been an old source book but I remember seeing one somewhere. I just want to obtain a starting point for prices for mundane furs and then the rarer ones like winter wolves, displacer beast etc etc. Also, any other ideas of this nature that would help me keep them busy such as mineral prospecting or harvesting dragon claws or whatever... |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 15:01:27
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quote:
Originally posted by BrutalAttack
Seems like at one point I remember a post on WoTC or another forum that had an ad-hoc list of fur prices. I guess it could have also been an old source book but I remember seeing one somewhere. I just want to obtain a starting point for prices for mundane furs and then the rarer ones like winter wolves, displacer beast etc etc. Also, any other ideas of this nature that would help me keep them busy such as mineral prospecting or harvesting dragon claws or whatever...
The old Dragon issue is #137...but Paizo dosn't have it availablke now :S
in a few days I could have that info available...it was pretty extensive...
the 2nd Ed. Volo's Guide to all Things Magaical lists a large number of different types of minerals and woods valued in the Realms...and in 3rd. Ed. there is a pile of materials listsed throughout many products that you can profit from...
But to make side-adventures for your players I would have a "mysterios patron" request certain "things" to be harvested..."things" that could take your players to places they normally wouldn't go (like Chult, The Hordelands, Maztica, etc.) to introduce new monsters and such...
and to keep their $$$ in check have them invest in lumber operations, mines, etc...
Back in the old days my party had just such a buisness...with a portable hole full of vials, jars and boxes for whatever we came accross
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Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
Edited by - Kalin Agrivar on 11 Aug 2006 15:02:46 |
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BrutalAttack
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 15:16:12
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Good info thanks. The great thing about this campaign and the thing that makes it different from our others is that: 1) I'm running it yay! and 2) the PCs are totally free to do whatever they wish, and at this point they are just looking for a fun way to spend the winter, roaming the hills trapping and exploring. Yes they are both wilderness rogues. heheh |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 15:31:50
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quote:
Originally posted by BrutalAttack
Good info thanks. The great thing about this campaign and the thing that makes it different from our others is that: 1) I'm running it yay! and 2) the PCs are totally free to do whatever they wish, and at this point they are just looking for a fun way to spend the winter, roaming the hills trapping and exploring. Yes they are both wilderness rogues. heheh
just remember (if you are a totally an impartial but fair DM that is always neutral and don't fret if your players die by their actions/choices) that when you are "roaming" around in the wilds you can run into almost any native monster and as a DM throw almost any native monster at your players, no matter their CR/power in comparison to your party's level...
the law of nature states the more powerful the animal (i.e. how high up in the food chain) the lower their population...but there is still that change they will encounter something thay cannot handle or survive...
For example, trapping in the High Forest there is a chance you could run into a rabbit, orc, mink, great wyrm red dragon, demon, drow raiding party, fey court or even and avatar of a god or goddess...
sometimes it's fun to put the fear and respect of the risks you take leaving your front door back into a player |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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BrutalAttack
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 15:34:46
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| Um...thanks. I do realize that....this isn't my first rodeo there cheif. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 15:37:39
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| I love running encounters with things that the PCs have no chance of surviving if they treat it like a normal encounter. Just watching them staring into the eyes of a dragon, in the grips of dragonfear, and seeing them being as deferential as possible, then having the dragon dismiss them as inconseqential and giving them until sundown to be out of its territory is a great experience. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 15:40:37
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I love running encounters with things that the PCs have no chance of surviving if they treat it like a normal encounter. Just watching them staring into the eyes of a dragon, in the grips of dragonfear, and seeing them being as deferential as possible, then having the dragon dismiss them as inconseqential and giving them until sundown to be out of its territory is a great experience.
Yeah, the dragon one is classic...I have had a Lv 2 party of adventures (2nd Ed) that wanted to take a shortcut through the mountains suddenly find themselves in the middle of a stone giant rock throwing contest...the giants caught the players and brought them home for the children to play with, like they way we do with frogs |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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BrutalAttack
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 15:43:16
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I've had other PCs die before because of a random encounter they decided to fight and metagame thinking I was going to bail them out....I didn't.
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 15:45:23
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quote:
Originally posted by BrutalAttack
I've had other PCs die before because of a random encounter they decided to fight and metagame thinking I was going to bail them out....I didn't.
I'v seen that too! were they new players? did they know your DM style? |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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BrutalAttack
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 17:35:02
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| they definitely weren't new. They just had developed bad habits under the previous DM who seemed to only have them meet up with proper CR encounters which of course is total crap. I even told them that there are many things walking the land that may easily kill them and there is equal chance of running into a CR 12 encounter as a CR 5. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 19:41:29
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| I think most of that Dragon article on fur and animal part prices was repeated in the Barbarians handbook for the 2ed. I will not recommend that book, as it is one of the few in the handbook series I did not like, and the fur prices was one of the few useful parts in it. |
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BrutalAttack
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 19:48:44
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Wow great post. I have that book sitting on my shelf right here! I never thought to even look in there, kinda like i never think to look at most of my 2nd Complete series anymore.
Here it is on page 122 in the appendix.
Some of the prices seem a little out of whack: Winter Wolf pelt worth 5,000 gp?
thank you thank you thank you
By all means if anyone else has any other information or suggestions please feel free to post.
I'd kind of like to engender some good discussion on other monster parts or other "frontier"-like activities that my characters could have fun doing.
thanks for all your help so far. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 20:15:03
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if you don't mind using old sources the Complete Book of Dwarves have quick-and-dirty rules/instructions on mining
There is another old Dragon Magazine arcticle that had even more tables and rules on making and running a mine |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 12:50:00
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| There's a web resource out there, "The Great Equipment Guide", where someone (don't remember the author) has made a compilation of most of the prices of equipment in 2nd edition supplements, including Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue. I'm not sure if it is still out there somewhere, but I have edited most of it into Word format. Nice resource to use if your PCs just decide to head out into the open market, "just to see what's around". |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 16:11:04
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I dont think the old dragon article would be very useful seeing as gp prices are not rly the same as they are in 3rd let aloen 2nd edition. another thing to think about is its one thing to kill an animal and a complete other to be able to skin it and make an acceptable fur without having the skin rot etc.
but if you do have characters who manage, think of what they could trade the furs for less of what someone would pay in gold bc i dont think lots of ppl who need furs are carrying large amounts of gold coins etc. they would probably trade tools or other commodities. |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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BrutalAttack
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 16:42:15
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| Actually, from what I'm understanding about Medieval and Rennisence(sp) society, it's mostly the rich that wear and buy furs. Except for those that trap them themselves of course. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 16:53:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Beirnadri Magranth
I dont think the old dragon article would be very useful seeing as gp prices are not rly the same as they are in 3rd let aloen 2nd edition. another thing to think about is its one thing to kill an animal and a complete other to be able to skin it and make an acceptable fur without having the skin rot etc.
Yeah, but you could likely figure out how to scale the prices by comparing item prices from edition to edition. |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 16:57:42
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| true... but difficult. if someone decides to do this try scaling items that have no combat effect as in commodities etc. bc prices of ROP +2 might be different bc armor is hadnled differently etc. |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2006 : 17:06:50
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Well, gold-standards in all editions have been so wrong anyway that I don't see the problem. The idea of bartering is OK as long as we are talking common skins, but the rarer and more expensive species will be bought by furriers and traders with contacts in the larger cities and therefore with coins.
And, even if you use a bartering system you still need more or less sett prices for guidance. OK sou you trade those mink for a hunting dog puppy, but there are always standards that say more or less how much the ware you are selling is worth. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 04:55:32
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quote:
Originally posted by BrutalAttack
Actually, from what I'm understanding about Medieval and Rennisence(sp) society, it's mostly the rich that wear and buy furs. Except for those that trap them themselves of course.
wow, that really seems incorrect...
even today with synthetic fibres the cultures that live on and above the arctic circle still wear fur (considering they live at a 2nd world wealth class at best) to keep warm...
can you imagine back then not wearing furs, especially in the geographical areas of europe/western asia not warmed by the gulf stream like Great Britan is?
I imagine back then only the rich had the luxury to buy furs to wear as a decoration and not as a necessity like the lower masses did...the furs of rarer animals that often do not hold as much heat as the more common furs do
I can also imagine why lower european society didn't have much furs was that european had (by that time) driven most fur-bearing animals into local extinction...after all, the exploration of Canada and northern America was fueled by the fur industry for europe...
In the Realms I think (roughly) anywhere geographically north of Baldure's Gate furs would be necessary for temperate, sub-arctic and arctic life... |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 08:37:17
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Well, wool would be the commonly used material for warmth in a medieval society. Animal skins will be used by some people, but wool and felt would be much more convenient.
As for the fur trade in America; that was for luxury skins, mainly beaver, used for hats and more decorative works such as collars not for warmth.
I would say North of Watergate, or even Neverwinter when it comes to were one commonly wears furs against the cold. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 12:47:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Well, wool would be the commonly used material for warmth in a medieval society. Animal skins will be used by some people, but wool and felt would be much more convenient.
As for the fur trade in America; that was for luxury skins, mainly beaver, used for hats and more decorative works such as collars not for warmth.
I would say North of Watergate, or even Neverwinter when it comes to were one commonly wears furs against the cold.
ahh, I forgot about wool (though I did remember felt)...I agree over the whole of the northern Realms wool would be the dominant material for practical clothing...but I think I heard there is a point where wool doesn't help much in the cold eithor since the sheep is not a natural subarctic creature...but more to the point sheep can only be raised in certain areas as they are actually pretty destructive to the environment...but some logistics are redundant to a RPG  
and beaver hats were very cheap at one point, it wasn't too much of a luxury ...as was muskrat...martin, fisher, and weasel (ermine) were the luxury furs (can't remember wich was sable)...and there was the "big" furs (from Canada) like wolf, bear (grizzly, polar and black) and cougar..and wolverine made the best collars
I think the question is for the use of furs in the Realms (as it usually is in comparing the Realms to Earth) is the definition of "medieval" as the Realms is a mismash of so many other cultures from different time periods (especially when you go accross the northern hemisphere) and the "fantastical" effect of magic and creatures on the fur trade (like the rothe for example), especially in this magic-item heavy (and alchemical items) 3E version of the Realms
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Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 13:06:42
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Well, You can have sheep and goats far into the subarctic clime as long as they are domesticated. That's the reason I set the border so far north. And then there's trade. My point is, except for among hunter gatherers and people of the farthest north the fur of interest would be the luxury version.
As for beaver hats; yes they became cheap, but the North-American fur trade of the 17th and 18th century was to a large degree built up around the beaver-hat fashion of Europe at the time. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 16:35:20
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| Don't forget that rothe can be used for fabric. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 16:41:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Don't forget that rothe can be used for fabric. :)
Indeed.
'Twas noted in both Ed's Drow of the Underdark and the Menzoberranzan boxed set.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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BrutalAttack
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2006 : 16:42:28
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In terms of real life: wool clothing is a superior insulator to fur due to the fact that it keeps 80% of it's insulation value even when wet. Fur is used when wool is isn't available and in certain specialized clothing accessories to retard icing in extreme conditions.
Also, for the average commoner, fur clothing doesn't have near the durability that wool, felt or hide/leather would have and based on the cost, low availability, and difficulty in processing prime fur into clothing, I can see how it would be more of a upper crust types accounterment.
I trap in real life btw. |
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Fur prices in the North plus other commodities
