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Nevorick
Acolyte
USA
29 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jul 2006 : 16:21:58
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In the supplement "Darkhold" which is a book from the "Castles" boxed set, there are letters of marque that I have some questions about.
On page 24 of "Darkhold", in the secret treasury of Darkhold there are "Letters of Marque from thieves guilds and various evil organizations throughout the heartlands totaling (xxx amount)."
If I understand correctly these are written by other evil groups, i.e. "from the fire knives" to be paid how? How does a good aligned party that has sacked Darkhold cash these in? Where must they be taken? Would it require the pc's to travel to say Amn to collect on a Letter of Marque from the "Knights of the Shield"?
Would the Letter of Marque specify who could collect the money?
OR could it mean that the pc's probably can't cash in the Letters of Marque because they aren't the person or persons on the letter? 
I'm a little unsure what could transpire with the Letters of Marque. So if anyone has any good input I'd be glad to hear it.
Thanks!
Nevorick
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"What happens in Waterdeep, stays in Waterdeep." |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2006 : 18:27:28
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| I would say that its a matter of finding an appropriate agent of the given organization, and then bluffing with the given representative that you are a member of the Zhentarim and as such can cash in the letter. Its actually kind of an interesting plot hook, and to try and cash in on them, you would have to take a lot of time to figure out the right agent to approach, and then you would have to know enough about the Zhentarim to bluff said agent. It would take a lot of . . . guts . . . to do this, but can you imagine the bragging rights, especially among "rogues," if you pulled it off? |
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Nevorick
Acolyte
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2006 : 15:34:22
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Thanks, Knight. I assume you are saying that the Letters of Marque probably have the names of some of the zhentarim who would be able to cash in. I guess if my party can come up with the idea, they can run the risk of trying to rip off the rest of the evil groups of Faerun.
First things first, they need to vanquish the rest of the troops in Darkhold and find the treasure room. I just wanted to get a grasp on the Letters of Marque beforehand. |
"What happens in Waterdeep, stays in Waterdeep." |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2006 : 16:19:04
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| They may have specific names, or they may require the possession of a specific badge, etc. But nothing a good rogue shouldn't be able to fake, forge, or bluff their way out of. It actually sounds like a lot of fun. |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2006 : 21:49:15
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Weird. A Letter of Marque is not a financial instrument. They can't be cashed in. Well, I suppose it could allow the bearer to "collect" X amount of money from a named party in order to satisfy a debt or crime.
A letter of marque is what makes the difference between a pirate and a privateer. Pirates are criminals who rob and plunder ships at sea. Privateers are deputized agents of a government who have "permission" to rob and pillage the ships of a hostile power.
The idea is that if you had a letter of marque and were arrested by a third government then you could say you were acting under color of law and thus could not be tried for piracy.
But in older times, letters of marque were not used strictly for naval purposes. The letter of marque basically just deputized a private citizen to collect a debt beyond the border of the issuing country from a citizen or enterprise of another country. (Marque meaning March or Border). How you collected the debt was up to you. And the letter didn't legally protect you from authorities of any country but your own. As far as the victim and the authorities of the other country were concerned, you were still just a robber plain and simple.
I am not seeing how a letter of marque from a criminal organization would be useful to anyone at all. Except in that maybe such a letter would authorize a non-member of a thieves guild to perhaps rob someone within their territory up to a specific amount without reprisal from the thieves guild. Maybe it is the practice in Faerūn for thieves guilds to sell such licenses, like hunting licenses.
Here are some examples of real letters of marque: http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Garden/5213/marque2.htm |
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Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2006 : 02:24:24
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I thought the same thing.
I also don't have the Castles stuff so I couldn't tell you what they really mean.
Mkhaiwati |
"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."
"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367 |
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Nevorick
Acolyte
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2006 : 04:52:55
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That's why I was kind of stumped regarding the letters. I know how Letters of Marque relate in our world to privateering, that's why I was puzzled. Maybe they are meant to be more in line with a letter of credit, for services rendered by the zhentarim?
The Castle booklet "Darkhold", says "Letters of Marque from thieves guilds and various evil organizations throughout the heartlands totaling (xxx amount)." That's word for word, all I left out was the gp total, to keep it secret from prospective players (especially mine).
I appreciate the input. Thanks. |
"What happens in Waterdeep, stays in Waterdeep." |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2006 : 16:33:32
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I asked Ed about this, and he told me someone at TSR 'relabelled' what was in the original (written by Jeff Grubb, I believe, not Ed), replacing an invented Realms word with a real-world phrase.
Here's what those letters were:
GRAVVENDREN: written documents entitling and legally empowering the bearer to collect a debt in future, either monetary or in terms of service (aid in doing a task, or furnishing space or materials to the bearer for carrying out the task).
(That's a double v, not a "w" in the word, BTW.)
In this case, various thieving guilds had needed help (in hiding and smuggling contraband goods or funds or sought-by-the-authorities guild members or persons kidnapped by the guild for ransom) in the past, and had received said aid from another organization (usually another thieves' guild, but often a legit guild that wanted to win the good regard of the thieving guild), and had written an I-O-U in recognition ("gravvendar" is the singular). And those at Darkhold had been assembling and stockpiling them, so as to be able to carry out concerted operations with a lot of help in the future.
A gravvendar has a "cash out" value in lieu of aid. In other words, if the guild or organization (trading costers use them, too) refuses or is unable to help you in terms of performance, they owe you a specified amount of cash.
The "legally empowered" bit means the organization members will work with you and not swindle or harm you, even though you don't know their passwords, have membership in them, and so on. To use the recent phrase "if I told you that, I'd have to kill you," consider a gravvendar as a certificate of immunity.
love,
THO |
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Nevorick
Acolyte
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2006 : 23:12:57
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Thank you Lady THO for your help. It is greatly appreciated. Please pass on my thanks to Ed as well.
Nevorick |
"What happens in Waterdeep, stays in Waterdeep." |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2006 : 08:27:40
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As always, Lady Hooded One, you are amazing. Thanks for reading and passing it on to Ed. That is tremendously interesting and useful Realmslore. I am always flabergasted that the most inoccuous questions about little Realms details reveal the most wondrous of answers from Ed.
It's like turning over a small pebble and finding a mastodon sized christmas present underneath. Joyous and very surprising.  |
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Letters of Marque in Darkhold
