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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Oct 2007 : 20:56:41
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Heya,
Sex is a big part of our games, though we generally run the Forgotten Realms as a trifle more prudish than Ed Greenwood does. It's more amusing to have the Obarskyr family be this collection of gigantic lotharios rather than have it just be business as usual in Faerun. It also adds a bit of spice that it's a similiar quirk of Elminster.
Frankly, I don't get the impression the family unit as we know it exists in the Forgotten Realms. It's very much a progressive society well above and beyond our own existing one.........
Have to disagree here old chap.
I would in no way claim about the realms tha it is "It's very much a progressive society well above and beyond our own existing one"
The more reading and research I do on medievil europe, the more and more it sounds much like the Realms! Seeing as how we have evolved and progressed since then, I would say some might see the Realms morays as "turning back the clock" to a more liberated and sexually free time.
I have to agree with Red Walker. It seems historically that society on a whole became more "civilized" as they focused on the family unit and became less promiscuous. The "progressive society" seems highly less civilized to me. |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness. 
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2007 : 01:02:47
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I don't want to start a debate or anything, but I don't think the concept of a more sexually-open society is at all incompatible with the concept of "the family."
I do agree with CP that the family dynamics of the Realms may well be different from how the family is traditionally perceived in our world, but largely I see that as a function of a more "open" society. They aren't as hung up (no pun intended) about sex--who's doing who, how it's naughty, how it's shameful, how children shouldn't know anything about it, etc.
Also keep in mind that 'the norm'--that is, the conventional "family unit" comprised of one husband, one wife, 2.5 children, 1 dog/cat--is not universal, even in our world. There are a staggering number of single-parent households, households where the parents are of the same sex, grandparents raising their grandkids, foster care, etc.
It's clear that in the Realms there are some people who aren't sexually possessive, but that's the same in our world. So people sleep with each other's spouses all the time in the Realms--in our world, we have swingers and affairs and threesomes and bathroom stalls at airports*. Some people in our world (generally those in more open and progressive sorts of places) are perfectly happy living polyamorously. And if that's what make 'em happy, more power to 'em. (I'll hang onto my monogamy, thank you very much.)
(*Note: I'm sorry, that was naughty of me.)
And just because there are people in the Realms who visibly have sex with other people all willy-nilly**, doesn't mean that most of them aren't inclined to monogamy or have any concept of the family. They just happen to be more open about sex.
(**Note: To borrow a Scott Adams joke: "If you haven't had sex 'all willy-nilly,' you should really try it.")
The only real difference, it seems to me, is that a larger proportion of the folk of the Realms seems to be more open and progressive than in our own world--about sex. And there's absolutely nothing wrong or evil about that. To answer an assertion noted earlier, no, the Realms aren't "above and beyond more progressive" than our world, but being somewhat more open about sex doesn't make that the case. I rather think the "troubles" in the Realms have more to do with ravening dragons, incredibly powerful liches, magical disasters, evil gods, etc., etc. Note that it's the *goodly* people who have the open attitude about sex.
I for one truly and deeply believe that sexuality is a wonderful and beautiful thing--it is at the core of so many of the world's problems because those problems are caused by attacking it. Repression, manipulation, guilt, hate, legislation, sexism, intolerance, even terrorism. Making you hate yourself for your feelings--condeming people who embrace their sexuality--that is the root of so many of the problems in America it's just not funny. Holding in your feelings is like constipation. Feelings don't just go away--they boil and boil up inside you and eventually turn to poison, which you either use to kill yourself or someone else.
The argument that "represession of sexuality is the key to an enlightened society" will never ever hold water for me. That's just backward and constipated thinking.
To be a sexual being is simply to be human--your sexual nature is inextricable. And nothing based entirely on love and genuine connection and respect can ever be wrong. No question.
Now then. On the subject of villains, sex, and families:
I think there's no real reason a villain can't have a family or loved ones--on the contrary, some villains are defined by an undying love (Jaime Lannister, anyone?)--but perhaps there are a few logistical reasons as to why they're less likely to form those kind of attachments.
Certainly, as humans are sexual beings, so do villains have desires (unless they're insane) and certainly have the ability to act upon them (unless their repression is what makes them evil [i.e. not-acting-upon-their-desires-and-hating-themselves]). It seems to me villains might be more likely to be promiscuous than to be family men/women, but not because sex is naughty or dirty, but because they're more inclined to be divorced from emotional connection with other people, and for the logistical reasons about family life discussed below.
The actual logistics of having a villainous family might be difficult--I mean, as a villainous young warlord, it's hard to meet women who have the same interests that you do ("Pillage and destruction! Then the sexy time."), at least not women who have a long life expectancy ("Those rascally adventurers raided my boidoir and slew my vampire brides again?"), or perhaps the same kind of "reverence for human life" that Goodly types tend to have ("And lo, we must sacrifice this third-born boy-child to our spider goddess . . . then the sexy time!"). It's kind of a lonely life, at times, when most of the time you're just barely surviving being killed by "heroes" and you're fairly likely to hold your own interests above those of anyone else, including a bed-buddy. ("Oh I'm sorry, this phylactery's just not big enough for the both of our souls. You spend your own xp, darling.")
All of this makes it, I guess, difficult to have a lasting relationship with anyone, if you're a villain who takes his role in fantasy seriously. Plus, villainy is so much about power/control and greed and assuaging your own jealous desires--even if those desires are just "KILL! PILLAGE! DESTROY!"--and not so much about the loving, giving, generous trusting that goes into a stable and equal relationship, one that is apt to build into a real family life.
All of which is not to say that there aren't thousands of incredibly villainous, dastardly, evil people who have perfectly normal house lives, where their families either don't know about their evil nightlife, don't care, or are reconciled to "that's what daddy does, and we get to eat at night." How many of the monstrous villains we hear about on the news have wives and children, most of whom they get to go home and kiss goodnight?
But as this is a thread about sex, I don't want to launch a whole conversation about villainy. Villains have sex. Heroes have sex. Everyone has sex! Woo-hoo!
Cheers,
Erik
who thinks every post should end with that kind of assertion.  |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 09 Oct 2007 01:18:48 |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2007 : 01:24:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
But as this is a thread about sex, I don't want to launch a whole conversation about villainy. Villains have sex. Heroes have sex. Everyone has sex! Woo-hoo!
Cheers,
Erik
who thinks every post should end with that kind of assertion.
Amen! |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2007 : 03:25:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
And just because there are people in the Realms who visibly have sex with other people all willy-nilly**, doesn't mean that most of them aren't inclined to monogamy or have any concept of the family. They just happen to be more open about sex.
I agree. I have more than a few characters who are settled down and are happily married (to only one person), and faithfully so. I think they fit in with the Realms just fine. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2007 : 03:42:52
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Well I don't think a message board about a Medieval Fantasy Setting is the place to discuss sexuality in the Real World nor do I particularly prefer to wade through it. Overall, maybe it's growing up in the Bible Belt but there's a great deal of social pressure on sex and I see the Realms as an extension of the 1960s "Free Love" movement if it hadn't collapsed on itself about half-way through. I can argue only from my experience but I believe in terms of sexual rights and feminist attitudes, the Realms is more advanced than Earth and good for them.
But, beyond that, I'm not going to discuss anymore real sexuality or gender issues here unless it has a direct impact on my discussion of the realms.
Re: Villains and Sex
I often think that Forgotten Realms is treated as a bit more juvenile in terms of the attitudes of villains towards sex. Ed Greenwood seems to be the only author where the heroes have sex. The last time I remember it in a non-Greenwood book where it's even obliquely hinted at is the Underdark series.
Strangely, I always felt that FR could take a few hints from Weiss and Hickman's original DL trilogy in terms of villainous portrayals (I suspect I'm about to be hit by a storm of lightning bolts and fireballs). The sexual dynamics of the villains were as much a part of their characterization as their other attitudes. Verminaard was an asexual sociopath, more interested in murder than lovemaking. Kitiara, on the other hand, had her immediate subordinate enamoured of her while she was sleeping with the Emperor of Ansalom.
Re: Sex in books
Actually, I think the best series for portraying sex in the Realms isn't even Ed Greenwood but Elaine Cunningham's Moonblade series. Sexual dynamics are an extremely important part of the series with Danillo Thann having an alluded to sexual history consistent with his background that colors his interactions with Arilyn, Arilyn is a virgin until she allows herself to be seduced by a Wood Elf before her boyfriend, and Elaith Craulnobler's interactions with Arilyn are soaked with debased sexual tension.
Maybe it's she's a female author as well as just being a good author. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2007 : 03:46:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Actually, I think the best series for portraying sex in the Realms isn't even Ed Greenwood but Elaine Cunningham's Moonblade series. Sexual dynamics are an extremely important part of the series with Danillo Thann having an alluded to sexual history consistent with his background that colors his interactions with Arilyn, Arilyn is a virgin until she allows herself to be seduced by a Wood Elf before her boyfriend, and Elaith Craulnobler's interactions with Arilyn are soaked with debased sexual tension.
Well, it's not that Arilyn "allowed herself to be seduced" by Foxfire, it's just that she and Foxfire took part in a ritual that involved sex. The wording in your post implies that Arilyn just cheated on Danilo, but there was more to it than that. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2007 : 03:54:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I don't want to start a debate or anything, but I don't think the concept of a more sexually-open society is at all incompatible with the concept of "the family."
Given the incidence of domestic abuse and marital rape (which wasn't a crime in the UK until 1991) in certain less sexually open societies, neither do I. |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2007 : 04:31:15
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Characters in my FR books have sex. Honest. You can look it up.
Anyway, some of you have a deeper knowledge of the Realms than I do, so I offer this thought somewhat diffidently, but I wonder if it isn't a bit of an oversimplication to talk about the sexual mores of the whole darn place. It seems to me that they'd likely differ from one land to the next and from one sentient species to the next. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2007 : 04:37:03
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quote:
Well, it's not that Arilyn "allowed herself to be seduced" by Foxfire, it's just that she and Foxfire took part in a ritual that involved sex. The wording in your post implies that Arilyn just cheated on Danilo, but there was more to it than that.
It wasn't a ritual so much as the Wood Elves celebrate their Festival by choosing partners and having sex with them. And Arilyn's take on the matter was mostly she didn't even consider Danillo and her to be dating.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2007 : 04:37:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Characters in my FR books have sex. Honest. You can look it up.
Anyway, some of you have a deeper knowledge of the Realms than I do, so I offer this thought somewhat diffidently, but I wonder if it isn't a bit of an oversimplication to talk about the sexual mores of the whole darn place. It seems to me that they'd likely differ from one land to the next and from one sentient species to the next.
This is mostly Ed Greenwood's take. Though I have difficulty seeing Dwarves as promiscuous.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2007 : 04:46:23
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I think its a bit more complicated than just "all the Realms think this way." And I think that Ed's take is that you can't assume that everyone in the Realms has the same thoughts and issues that we do "here," not so much that everyone thinks the same way.
For example, in Dwarves' Deep it mentions that one of the things that dwarves assume about humans and orcs is that they both breed often and incautiously. While it doesn't spell out dwarven thoughts on the matter completely, I think it gives you a bit of a peek into how they think.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2007 : 05:15:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
Well, it's not that Arilyn "allowed herself to be seduced" by Foxfire, it's just that she and Foxfire took part in a ritual that involved sex. The wording in your post implies that Arilyn just cheated on Danilo, but there was more to it than that.
It wasn't a ritual so much as the Wood Elves celebrate their Festival by choosing partners and having sex with them. And Arilyn's take on the matter was mostly she didn't even consider Danillo and her to be dating.
I think you're over-simplifying it. Part of the point of the festival was to celebrate life, and sex has often been used for that purpose. It wasn't about the sex, it was about celebrating the cycle of life and their own place in it.
And a large part of Arilyn's participation wasn't her saying "Danilo and I aren't an item", it was taking part in an elven ritual and being fully accepted, for the first time in her life, by another elf, for who she was. Though her ways are more human, Arilyn had always considered herself to be an elf -- and yet, had always been rejected by elves. Even Elaith's acceptance of her wasn't based on her elven blood, but rather, on his love for her late mother. One of the things Arilyn needed was to be totally and completely accepted by another elf. She needed an elf to see her as another elf.
And between that festival, Foxfire's acceptance of her, and everything else that happened in the novel, it allowed Arilyn to finally understand who she really was. That understanding, in turn, allowed her to finally accept and return Danilo's love.
She wasn't cheating on him, because at that time she was not, in her heart, truly with him. Seeing into the heart of another helped her see into her own. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2007 : 15:48:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Characters in my FR books have sex. Honest. You can look it up.
Gasp! Shock! 
Ooh, Richard, you dastard! You naughty, naughty man! Twilight never ********** anyone in my writing. Chaste! Pure! Virginal!
Snort.
(Seriously, you want page numbers? 'Cuz I'll give 'em. At least 1-2 instances in every piece of my Realms writing to date. )
quote:
I wonder if it isn't a bit of an oversimplication to talk about the sexual mores of the whole darn place. It seems to me that they'd likely differ from one land to the next and from one sentient species to the next.
One of my points exactly.
Certain of the Realms societies are quite a bit more stodgy and stolid about sex than others.
I think that sexuality--as an important thing to adult human beings in this or any world--needs to be a part of any novel, in any genre, where you write about adult human beings.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2007 : 16:03:20
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| While we are "at it", has Twilight been statted by now? T'would be good to know her Dexterity and Constitution scores to envisage said passages of the book ... uh ... ahem ... well |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2007 : 17:56:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
While we are "at it", has Twilight been statted by now? T'would be good to know her Dexterity and Constitution scores to envisage said passages of the book ... uh ... ahem ... well
As far as I know, no statblock of Twilight has yet been published. But you're probably looking at a very high dexterity (like 19-22 range), average constitution (like 10-12 range), and high charisma (like 16-18).
She's a nimble little minx, but generally a little fragile (emotionally as well as physically).
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 01:12:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
As far as I know, no statblock of Twilight has yet been published. But you're probably looking at a very high dexterity (like 19-22 range), average constitution (like 10-12 range), and high charisma (like 16-18).
Statting characters from books is never something I usually do, but I did tend to think about what potential stats Twilight may have had during some of her experiences in Depths of Madness.
Twilight's Charisma would likely be one of the more important indications of her character. And strangely, I interpreted it as a stat that would fluctuate every so often, depending upon her mood. As we've seen in the book, Twilight tends to become somewhat insular, at times, especially when confronted with situations that force her to deal with personal issues. That type of psychological insight would, I believe, temporarily affect her active Charisma, making her less appealing to others. Or, at the very least, more difficult for others to approach because her personality isn't as welcoming as it can, at other times, be. Elsewhen, she almost seemed "on top of HER world," which is when I can see the types of numbers for her Charisma that you've posted here, being assigned. It could reflect her particular triumph [or maybe even just ignorance {since she also tended to ignore, rather than conquer, some}] of the specific "demons" haunting her mental state at that particular moment.
For me, Twilight's Charisma would act as an accurate reflection of her evolving psychological state -- at times, hardly stable enough to rely on. It was always an important element of her character, and a crucial element of the book itself.
As it is, maybe I'm looking to deeply into this, but I found Twilight's mental state to intrigue me more than, perhaps say, her more aggressive [at times] physical side. Of course, we've also seen her more aggressive physical tendencies deriving their genesis from her particular mental states -- so perhaps the two aspects of her character are more intimately connected than I initially realised. A lot of ways in which she dealt with the events of the world around her, were convincingly portrayed by Erik through her mental meanderings, and I think that tended to influence how I would record her WIS, CHA, and INT ability scores.
quote:
She's a nimble little minx, but generally a little fragile (emotionally as well as physically).
A point to Erik for the [perhaps unintentional] Ghostbusters reference!
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 10 Oct 2007 01:20:59 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 01:29:52
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How wise and astute, Sage . . . the novel happens more within Twilight--in her mentality--than anywhere else.
(And you haven't written a review of this book, why? Because you're too in tune with it? )
I find that theory particularly uncanny seeing as how "madness" in my games takes the form of damage to mental ability scores (INT, WIS, CHA), as appropriate to the madness. Inability to understand events? Result of INT damage. Impaired sense/judgment? WIS damage. Loss of confidence/self-respect/sense of self? CHA damage.
Ahem. :)
But as we were talking about sex . . . always an appropriate topic when Twilight's involved . . . let's get back to that.
CHA damage would seem to make a person very susceptible to sexual appetites and risky behavior (e.g. sleeping with the novel's villain)--you're losing confidence in yourself, needing to feel valued/loved by someone else (even if it's illusory) . . .
See? I brought it back to topic. Right?
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
She's a nimble little minx, but generally a little fragile (emotionally as well as physically).
A point to Erik for the [perhaps unintentional] Ghostbusters reference!
Best. Comedy. Ever.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 03:19:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think you're over-simplifying it. Part of the point of the festival was to celebrate life, and sex has often been used for that purpose. It wasn't about the sex, it was about celebrating the cycle of life and their own place in it.
And a large part of Arilyn's participation wasn't her saying "Danilo and I aren't an item", it was taking part in an elven ritual and being fully accepted, for the first time in her life, by another elf, for who she was. Though her ways are more human, Arilyn had always considered herself to be an elf -- and yet, had always been rejected by elves. Even Elaith's acceptance of her wasn't based on her elven blood, but rather, on his love for her late mother. One of the things Arilyn needed was to be totally and completely accepted by another elf. She needed an elf to see her as another elf.
And between that festival, Foxfire's acceptance of her, and everything else that happened in the novel, it allowed Arilyn to finally understand who she really was. That understanding, in turn, allowed her to finally accept and return Danilo's love.
She wasn't cheating on him, because at that time she was not, in her heart, truly with him. Seeing into the heart of another helped her see into her own.
That's deep, Wooly, very insightful. Psych major? |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 03:38:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
How wise and astute, Sage . . . the novel happens more within Twilight--in her mentality--than anywhere else.
(And you haven't written a review of this book, why? Because you're too in tune with it? )
I find that theory particularly uncanny seeing as how "madness" in my games takes the form of damage to mental ability scores (INT, WIS, CHA), as appropriate to the madness. Inability to understand events? Result of INT damage. Impaired sense/judgment? WIS damage. Loss of confidence/self-respect/sense of self? CHA damage.
Ahem. :)
To keep this scroll free of off-topic clutter, I've addressed this post elsewhere.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2007 : 04:21:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think you're over-simplifying it. Part of the point of the festival was to celebrate life, and sex has often been used for that purpose. It wasn't about the sex, it was about celebrating the cycle of life and their own place in it.
And a large part of Arilyn's participation wasn't her saying "Danilo and I aren't an item", it was taking part in an elven ritual and being fully accepted, for the first time in her life, by another elf, for who she was. Though her ways are more human, Arilyn had always considered herself to be an elf -- and yet, had always been rejected by elves. Even Elaith's acceptance of her wasn't based on her elven blood, but rather, on his love for her late mother. One of the things Arilyn needed was to be totally and completely accepted by another elf. She needed an elf to see her as another elf.
And between that festival, Foxfire's acceptance of her, and everything else that happened in the novel, it allowed Arilyn to finally understand who she really was. That understanding, in turn, allowed her to finally accept and return Danilo's love.
She wasn't cheating on him, because at that time she was not, in her heart, truly with him. Seeing into the heart of another helped her see into her own.
That's deep, Wooly, very insightful. Psych major?
Nope. I'm in IT. I did take a semester of psychology, though.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 02:14:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think you're over-simplifying it. Part of the point of the festival was to celebrate life, and sex has often been used for that purpose. It wasn't about the sex, it was about celebrating the cycle of life and their own place in it.
And a large part of Arilyn's participation wasn't her saying "Danilo and I aren't an item", it was taking part in an elven ritual and being fully accepted, for the first time in her life, by another elf, for who she was. Though her ways are more human, Arilyn had always considered herself to be an elf -- and yet, had always been rejected by elves. Even Elaith's acceptance of her wasn't based on her elven blood, but rather, on his love for her late mother. One of the things Arilyn needed was to be totally and completely accepted by another elf. She needed an elf to see her as another elf.
And between that festival, Foxfire's acceptance of her, and everything else that happened in the novel, it allowed Arilyn to finally understand who she really was. That understanding, in turn, allowed her to finally accept and return Danilo's love.
She wasn't cheating on him, because at that time she was not, in her heart, truly with him. Seeing into the heart of another helped her see into her own.
Beautifully put.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 20:00:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
So where's Twilight from? I'd like to check out the book.
I try to keep us on topic, but it seems that Twilight inevitably comes up when rampant sexual escapades are discussed. Huh. Go fig.
Twilight features first in my story "The Greater Treasure" in the Realms of the Elves anthology, then in my novel Depths of Madness.
And in DoM, it's made clear she's kind of a kinky girl.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2007 : 21:51:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
And in DoM, it's made clear she's kind of a kinky girl.
Cheers
"The kind you don't take home to Mother..." |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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|
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2007 : 00:14:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
And in DoM, it's made clear she's kind of a kinky girl
"The kind you don't take home to Mother..."
Ooh, I just got this wonderful idea for a new Realms short story . . .
Ahem!
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
So it's true, sex sells.
Apparently.
I hope you like it.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 15:34:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
And in DoM, it's made clear she's kind of a kinky girl.
Cheers
"The kind you don't take home to Mother..."
Especially if your mother is an Obarskyr!!
Very disheartening to have your girlfriend stolen by your mother! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 16:35:14
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Sexy Losers comes to mind. :-)
But yes, I'm still all about the Alusair and Caladnei.
Wait, can I choose a computer game? Then it's Imoen after them.
;-)
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 16:36:38
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
And in DoM, it's made clear she's kind of a kinky girl.
Cheers
"The kind you don't take home to Mother..."
Especially if your mother is an Obarskyr!!
Very disheartening to have your girlfriend stolen by your mother!
Just ask Kenta Shibata...*
But my earlier comment was a song reference -- Superfreak, by Rick James.
*If you Google this, beware: the comic strip in question is massively not safe for work, and certainly not suitable for all viewers! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 16:38:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Sexy Losers comes to mind. :-)
Heh, I was thinking the same thing. Sick Great minds and all that, right? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Topic |
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Sex & the Realms
Topic Locked
