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Lady_Silverwing
Acolyte
26 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Mar 2003 : 16:56:58
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Here's the situation:
One of my co-workers asked me to help make maps for his adventure in a keep. He's also asking me to give him ideas for the campaign. Now, I'm working very hard on this. This previous weekend he introduced me to another one of the players, who just happens to be another co-worker. Now, we start talking about the game and she admits that she doesn't know much about D&D. I found out that he didn't explain anything to her (for example: what her stats mean for her character) so she's wandering around blind. Some of his (IMO bogus) rules include letting characters rape or kill other PCs/NPCs.
I'm not happy that he's recruiting people to play and not explaining anything to them. Should I take up the responsibility of explaining? Should I petition him to change the 'acts' that the characters are within reason to do? I want to help make this fun for the players, but I really don't think it's going to be fun if there's an evil character in the group that justifies (and gets XP for!) killing another party member.
What do you all think?
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-Ryissa Silverwing
Wanna roleplay? Join the crew at..:
Sandhrune's D&D Board (Munchkin Policy: let the crucifixion begin! <= With a policy like that, how can you resist?) Join the adventures today! |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2003 : 17:02:42
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| I completly agree. And if he's not stupid he'll - at least - listen to you. I suggest that you talk to him before talking to the players. And if things don't get better... leave. After all, DMs must have fun PLAYING D&D |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2003 : 17:22:42
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| This guy does NOT sound like a fun guy to play with. I suggest you either get him to change or drop him. The point is to have fun, and it doesn't sound like that's going to be easy to do with him in charge. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2003 : 18:08:22
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Having a party be one big happy family, for no reason other than they are all PCs, stretches credulity, so a little bit of PC combativeness enhances role-playing in my opinion.
However, PCs habitually raping and murdering each other with active encouragement from the DM doesn't sound like much fun (in fact, it sounds downright twisted). PCs not being the best of friends is one thing, but if the PCs hate each other enugh to contemplate raping or murdering each other, they wouldn't be adventuring together, would they? I'm not even sure I'd give the guy the chance Bookwyrm suggests. I have little tolerance for immature DMs and/or players, and this fellow sounds like he's still looking forward to his middle school graduation.
If the players are mature enough, murder and rape can indeed take place (they take palce in real life and fiction, after all), but I wouldn't have such elements in one of my games unless I *absolutely* knew *for sure* that *all* the players were capable of dealing with such themes. |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2003 : 18:13:49
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I think you should give him try.
In one of my games i've been raped by a mercenaries. Even if it's a bit too 'tough' i think it's not a scene that must be only background-used.
And branmakmuffin, it's the same for me, we're like a big family, we don't just play together, we go out, ... |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2003 : 18:15:19
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| I'd never tolerate that in something I'm a part of, Zemd, and I'm a guy. I don't know how you can. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2003 : 18:29:21
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zemd:
>In one of my games i've been raped by a mercenaries. Even if it's a
>bit too 'tough' i think it's not a scene that must be only
>background-used.
Like I said, if everyone's OK dealing with themes like rape, torture and murder, then no problem.
Just out of curiosity, do you usually play female characters? Except in computer RPGs, where I mix it up 50/50, I *always* play male characters. On the other hand, I know men who almost always play female characters.
>And branmakmuffin, it's the same for me, we're like a big family, we
>don't just play together, we go out, ...
Yes, I've known the people I game with for roughly 15 years (on average), but you're talking about the players (I think). I was referring to characters in my previous post. Surely your *characters* must sometimes come into conflict with each other no matter how close you are to the other *players*. |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2003 : 18:33:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
I'd never tolerate that in something I'm a part of, Zemd, and I'm a guy. I don't know how you can.
I don't know neither. 
quote:
Originally posted by branmakmuffin
Just out of curiosity, do you usually play female characters?
It depends, 50/50 in average. I like to play difficult characters. Playing opposite sex is hard, especially if you don't to play it 'i'm a guy so i think only about beer, sex and fight!  |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2003 : 18:35:49
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| I was talking about the rape. I don't know how you can just accept it. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2003 : 18:41:14
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I understood.
But it was years ago, i was 15 when i played this session. I was shocked at the time. But now it faded out. And i think i can split RL and RPG enough to understand. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2003 : 18:43:07
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| I'm not talking about splitting the two. I'm objecting to it on principle. I hate rape. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Elrond Half Elven
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
322 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2003 : 18:46:03
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The group i play with i have 'reared'  Well i introduced them all to AD&D. Some of them (Well one now since the rest of the orignial Players have left) even explored AD&D for the very first time with me. Ive been playing for about 5 years now and i feel that i am nowhere near a vetrian (SP?) status. About a couple of months ago my dad introduced me to one of his mates who has been playing for a bout 15 years. The amount of information i gained from their group was massive.
I think the guy that the gloryous Lady Silverwing seems like an immateur wa*k. I feel that in our 5 years of gaming (I started when i was 11) have been much more matuer than the game he is running just now. I have introduced most of the Fantasy readers i could find im my school to the game, and to my surprise i have also very recentally introduced 3 non fantasy type (If you follow me) One of which i thought would never like it. He happened to be around at my house when we started talking about D&D, which ofcourse lead to us playing the Introduction game, and reliving memerories 5 years past! |
Once upon a midnight dreary, while i pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore-
While i nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
-The Raven by Edgar Allan Poe |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2003 : 18:47:14
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| I hate that to, i think it's a crime sometimes more evil (sorry best word i could find) than murder... But let's talk about something else, it upsets me a little (i don't remember if upset means 'shaken', because i'm not angry... Damn, my english is getting worse) |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2003 : 18:52:14
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Bookwyrm:
>I'm not talking about splitting the two. I'm objecting to it on
>principle. I hate rape.
I hope you hate murder, torture, child abuse and genocide just as much.
Has any of your characters ever murdered someone? I'll bet so. I'll bet, like me, you've had RPG characters that have been hired assassins. Is it worse to rape someone that to murder them, or maim them? Do you throw a novel down in disgust if it contains a rape scene?
Playng a character that murders doesn't mean you like or condone murder, so if your character rapes someone, that doesn't mean you like or condone rape. To set the record straight, none of my characters in any game in any genre has ever raped anyone, but they have, as I said, murdered, and they have tortured (only those who deserved it, of course). |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2003 : 12:48:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady_Silverwing
I'm not happy that he's recruiting people to play and not explaining anything to them. Should I take up the responsibility of explaining? Should I petition him to change the 'acts' that the characters are within reason to do? I want to help make this fun for the players, but I really don't think it's going to be fun if there's an evil character in the group that justifies (and gets XP for!) killing another party member.
What do you all think?
Like the other scribes said, the game is meant to be fun for all participants, even if the tone of the game is more serious and realistic. Your message sounds like you're doubting the fun part and so does your co-worker it seems like. Just sit toghetr with the DM and discuss the issue you're facing. If he/she is a good DM he/she will listen and adjust appropriately.
Bookwyrm, I understand and respect your opinion on rape. And in itself it is not a good thing. Yet as people sometimes like to emulate a more medieval or darker setting in their games, these topics come to the fore at times. It all depends on how well the DM knows his/her players to use such items or not. (The Book of Vile Darkness has some tips in regards to these situations!)
In the Twilight Dawn campaign I have used rape (or something coming very, very close) on one of the characters, BUT not after seeking advice from the player in regards as to how far things could go. In instances like these, it is the player who decides the limits as long as they don't surpass those of the DM.
Zemd, in answer to your comment on your english: Au contraire, I think your english is improving very well. Kuddos to you!
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2003 : 13:05:36
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Thank you Mumadar
<zemd bows>
And that's what i feel: I like to play in dark settings, Middle Age was harsh age to live in. |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2003 : 18:34:34
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zemd:
>Originally posted by branmakmuffin
>>Just out of curiosity, do you usually play female characters?
>It depends, 50/50 in average. I like to play difficult characters.
How about a kobold with a 3 dexterity? That's pretty difficult.
>Playing opposite sex is hard, especially if you don't to play
>it 'i'm a guy so i think only about beer, sex and fight!
Don't forget about scratching yourself and picking your nose.
Seriously, that's why I never play female characters. I wouldn't know how to role-play a woman, any more than I know how to role-play an Elf (I don't like to play Elves, either). |
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Artalis
Senior Scribe
USA
444 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2003 : 21:11:05
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Sounds like the DM's assistant is ready to become a DM to me....
Seriously, If you don't like what he's doing with the story, characters or whatever run your own campaign.
Far more satisfying than assisting someone else to run their's IMHO.
Don't worry about not having enough experience to run your own. Learn to fly by the seat of the pants as it were and you will be fine. The story is the key thing, and that the players (and you) enjoy playing is the MOST important thing. |
Artalis
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2003 : 22:48:18
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quote:
Originally posted by branmakmuffin
zemd:
>Originally posted by branmakmuffin
>>Just out of curiosity, do you usually play female characters?
>It depends, 50/50 in average. I like to play difficult characters.
How about a kobold with a 3 dexterity? That's pretty difficult.
>Playing opposite sex is hard, especially if you don't to play
>it 'i'm a guy so i think only about beer, sex and fight!
Don't forget about scratching yourself and picking your nose.
Seriously, that's why I never play female characters. I wouldn't know how to role-play a woman, any more than I know how to role-play an Elf (I don't like to play Elves, either).
A kobold can be funny to play. Not for an entire campaign (thinking about it, maybe after all).
But for races rpg, check the new book, Savage Species.
And try www.myth-drannor.net (site given by Bookwyrm in a previous post) to learn more aboutnthe elves.You see Bookwyrm, trademark isn't
a bad idea 
There's also the complete elf handbook (2nd ed) IMO a very good module |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2003 : 00:59:17
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zemd:
quote:
And try www.myth-drannor.net (site given by Bookwyrm in a previous post) to learn more aboutnthe elves. You see Bookwyrm, trademark isn't a bad idea. There's also the complete elf handbook (2nd ed) IMO a very good module.
We are verging way off topic, here. Somebody's going to have a myocardial infarction about this.
That is a very interesting web site, lots of language-related stuff, which is of particular interest to me. I do speak French, by the way, but not as well as you evidently sepak English, and certainly not well enough to make it worth your time or mine to do so in this forum, even if no one else minds.
I'm sure "The Complete Elf Handbook" is a good book, but I just don't like to play Elves, in any game system. Half-elves, OK, but not full Elves. I don't like to play Gnomes or Halflings, either. |
Edited by - branmakmuffin on 29 Mar 2003 22:33:03 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2003 : 04:30:51
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Bran, just because I have standards doesn't mean they're consistant.
Yes, the Middle Ages were darker. I don't have anything against the other things you've mentioned in a story/RPG. It's just that one little thing. You go into too much detail about some evil practices, and I leave.
No, I've never played a woman. Or a man. I guess you're the only one who hasn't noticed that I haven't role-played at all. I do write, but none of my characters (the main, good-guy characters) have done any of the things you listed. My characters are not as shining-knight in a moral and chivalric sense as those my brother creates -- characters are like me.
In a fight, I'll hit them when their back is turned. I treat men and women (more or less) the same (meaning I will fight a woman if I have to, just like a man). I wouldn't give an ememy time to pick up a weapon (s)he dropped -- if it's a bad guy, why arm him?
Maybe it's a bit fuzzy to you as to where I draw the line. But it's not to me. Everyone has their own line -- and it's not necessarily a straight one. Like all lines, it can be a little (or a lot) crooked. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2003 : 04:37:18
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This guy sounds like a real winner. Having players in the dark about the game rules is not a good thing if you want the players to come back. I can almost guarantee these new players won't if this is how he runs his game. If the rest of the players are OK with his rules, then there's not a whole lot you can do about the situation, except not participate; however, if they're not ok with them, why don't you just steal these players away from him and show them what a fun campaign can be like? You say you're working hard on it. Just take that extra step and become the DM yourself. I bet you'd be much better at it than this other joker. |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2003 : 21:05:15
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Bookwyrm:
quote:
I don't have anything against the other things you've mentioned in a story/RPG. It's just that one little thing. You go into too much detail about some evil practices, and I leave.
Oh, I agree. I wouldn't enjoy it if a player (or an author) went into excrutiating detail on how he goes about questioning a reluctant prisoner. It's enough to say "We threaten him and beat him up to make him talk." This is a perfect time when roll playing is preferable to role playing. In a book, all I need to know is that they "put him to the question".
quote:
No, I've never played a woman. Or a man. I guess you're the only one who hasn't noticed that I haven't role-played at all.
I have noticed. I mentioned it some other thread. I just hadn't noticed when I wrote my previous post in this thread. |
Edited by - branmakmuffin on 29 Mar 2003 22:35:26 |
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Lady_Silverwing
Acolyte
26 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2003 : 14:27:30
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To Artalis and Yasraena: I'm not worried about having no experience- it's the fact that I can't always be there right at the game and that I don't know the players or where they meet. Part of my reason for taking on the 'assistant' role was to provide ideas,get experience make dungeons/adventures and then hear about how everything unfolded (since I'd never be present at the session) and hear about what some of the players liked and didn't like.
But should I (if I stay) take the time to teach the newbie about D&D or should I just say "Hey, you're DM, you explain it" to the 'DM'. (BTW, no one knows whether or not he's using 3e or 2e rules- it keeps changing by the minute)
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-Ryissa Silverwing
Wanna roleplay? Join the crew at..:
Sandhrune's D&D Board (Munchkin Policy: let the crucifixion begin! <= With a policy like that, how can you resist?) Join the adventures today! |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2003 : 14:44:13
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| Being a DM myself, for me there is only one answer to your question: Tell your DM it is his repsonsibility. As a DM one of the tasks is to make clear to the players what rules are in use. Whether they are published rules or house rules. |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2003 : 16:36:24
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It keeps changing!!! I think your DM isn't trustworthy. If it's your friend, don't tell anything to the players and talk with him. If it's not, tell them.
But someone who always change between 2nd ed and 3rd isn't, IMO, i'd beleive to be a good DM. Are its stories good? |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2003 : 20:33:22
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| Yes, he needs to be consistent, but perhaps he's trying to find a balance between the two? I do that with some games. I make up rules and test them, trying to find what is "best." But this is just me playing devil's avacado. Er, avocate. You know. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2003 : 23:52:29
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| It's than that Bookwyrm. Changing edition means a lot of work. So changing everytime leads to misunderstanding from both the DM and the players |
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Lady_Silverwing
Acolyte
26 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2003 : 12:47:49
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Devil's advocate is good Bookwyrm, and I'm happy someone's willing to play that role.
Zemd: All I know is that he's making the group journey to a keep and clean out the horde inside. He then wants them to defend it for three days against attack. He's expecting level 3-4 characters (a party of five I think?), but that could change like the wind.
 I'm designing the keep.
A huge problem is that I thought the game was 'hybrid' rules, then 2e; if it's 3e, I'm not going to be much help. |
-Ryissa Silverwing
Wanna roleplay? Join the crew at..:
Sandhrune's D&D Board (Munchkin Policy: let the crucifixion begin! <= With a policy like that, how can you resist?) Join the adventures today! |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2003 : 03:26:25
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Wow. He must be a good friend if you're willing to put that much work into it and not even be at the game, or I sense a deep need for you to run or play a game yourself, Lady Silverwing 
For my two cents, the game sounds like a lost cause to me. If the DM can't even decide on what rules to use (and the difference between 2nd and 3rd Ed. is a BIG if not HUGE one) then I don't understand how there can actually BE a game to begin with. If you stay, I agree with Mumadar. Being a DM is a lot of work, and making sure the players know what's going on is part of that. Putting it off on an assistant, to me at least, is just an excuse that he doesn't want to take the time to do it. Hope things work out for you whatever you decide. |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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zemd
Master of Realmslore
France
1103 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2003 : 08:15:11
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| Do you know what the players think about this? Maybe i could be good to take their opinion in account |
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DM Assistant Needs Advice
