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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 01:54:54
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| The Ilythiiri attacking Syorpiir is a new piece of lore altogether. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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El Magnifico Uno
Learned Scribe
113 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 05:30:53
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Well it's not exactly new info.. Cormanthyr sourcebook lists Syorpiir as one of the kingdoms that fall in the Second Crown War.. I'm just a nitwit and got the Dark Disaster confused with the intial invasion of Miyertiar.. They're kinda similiar aren't they? Military occupation vs total genocide?.. err... Ok, maybe not..
As for all Aryvandaars being held accountable for the Vyshaans pranks, I guess that kinda depends on what side of the war you're on.. If you're the guys that just had your kingdom reduced to a bubbling acidic quagmire, and your people turned into oily black multi-headed critters, well you might be inclined to hold all the Aryvandaars responsible for facilitating the Vyshaans and keeping them in power.. On the other hand, if you were just the ordinary Aryvandaar citizen doing your part for the war effort, well you might claim things like you were duped by those naughty Vyshaans, or that you were only following orders..
((And yes I know that's not exactly the way the Sharn happened, but it's close enough for the purposes of this example.)) |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 05:42:23
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Most of what you say I agree with.
I just am tired of people try to make Sun Elves out to be more Evil than they are. :)
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Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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El Magnifico Uno
Learned Scribe
113 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 06:18:56
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| Totally agree there!.. Well it's not the Sun Elves fault, they're just written that way.. Methinks those wacky folk over at Wizards need to start populating the 20,000 blank years of ancient elven history with some positive Gold Elf tidbits.. Like maybe detail all the times those well organized Sun Elf armies saved Faerun from a rampaging army of demons while their chaoticly organized elf brethren scattered in the face of the enemy (we'll gloss over the part where the demons are imprisoned and then released millenia later causing even more problems down the line).. Or maybe when the detailed and concentrated study of Gold Elf High Mages saved the world from an out of control spell cast by a randomly experimenting Moon elf.. Or maybe how it was Gold Elves who sacrificed themselves to stop Moander at Tsornyl (no idea who actually did).. Or something, anything to show they aren't a complete blight on the world.. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 06:51:11
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We've already had some "good" Sun Elven acts...
But people tend to ignore them. :(
Ah well. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 14:38:51
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Most of what you say I agree with.
I just am tired of people try to make Sun Elves out to be more Evil than they are. :)
But they are...  |
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El Magnifico Uno
Learned Scribe
113 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 15:29:36
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| Well no doubt there are some good Sun Elf deeds in Realmslore, but I just can't for the life of me think of any off the top of my head (no coffee yet this morning).. Any chance you could remind us of what those good deeds are? |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 16:55:57
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I haven't seen much documentation on the Sun Elves so I can't comment on their good or bad deeds. Maybe their deeds are very rarely written about, whether good or bad?  |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 17:41:15
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Durothil: Basically saved the Elves by bringing them over from Faerie, and establishing the first Elven Empires, and figuring out a way to defend against the dragons so that all Elves had the ability to prospher.
Askhahala: The most powerful dragonrider of Cormanthyr, who now is Evermeet's most powerful defender.
Josidiah Durothil: Went on the quest to recover the Artblade.
The Srinshee: The ultimate 'Merlin' to the Coronal of Cormanthyr's 'Arthur.'
The entire Irithyl Line: All Sun Elven Coronals of Cormanthyr.
So, there are some very notable GOOD Sun Elves as well as Evil ones. Cormanthyr was founded by Sun Elves first and foremost, so even if it was supported by Moon Elves, the fact is, the Sun Elves had the might, magic, ambition, and experience to forge it in the first place, and retain rulership of it for ~5 Rysars, if I remember correctly. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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El Magnifico Uno
Learned Scribe
113 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2006 : 23:50:09
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| Ahhh... Well bummer, was sorta hoping for something a bit more large scale.. Therein lies the explanation of "Gold Elf evil".. Your positive examples are of individuals or smalls groups, whereas established lore implicates ALL Gold Elves (unfairly IMHO) in some pretty major naughty events.. Sadly the individual examples are (incorrectly IMHO) interpreted as exceptions while the big events are viewed as the norm.. And given FRs take on large power structures (*coughFlowerPowercough*) saying that the Gold Elves were ambitious and powerful is hardly beneficial to their cause.. Regardless, the Gold Elves definitely need ALOT more positive propoganda in historical RSEs.. Would go a long way in dismissing the the "evil Sun Elf" myth.. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2006 : 00:24:31
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Where does the established lore implicate ALL Gold Elves in major naughty events?
The Crown Wars: Specifically relegated to the ranks of the Vyshaanti, a single Gold Elf clan.
Attack on Evermeet: A very minority of Gold Elves actually betrayed the Queen; in the Evermeet supplement, it says that the rest of the Gold Elves will NEVER forgive themselves for this.
Eldreth Veluuthra: There are under 100 members, not all of which are Gold Elves by far.
Fey'ri: ONE major house, and a bunch of minor ones.
No where near the majority of Gold Elves have been implicated in major events. And out of ALL of the above events, I wouldn't call any but the Crown Wars and Evermeet even remotely large-scale.
So, I really want to know, why are people thinking this? Is it just because they're not analyzing the facts enough? |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
Edited by - GothicDan on 02 Jul 2006 00:25:23 |
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El Magnifico Uno
Learned Scribe
113 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2006 : 00:49:54
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quote:
Is it just because they're not analyzing the facts enough?
Partially, yes.. In the overall scheme, no.. It's a contrast of specific examples versus large over-reaching themes.. In any case, you are correct, the Gold Elves shouldn't be viewed as evil, and yet they still are viewed that way.. That's just the way people interpret it.. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2006 : 01:27:12
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But there's really no interpretation here... I crunched the actual numbers from all 1E and 2E Elven NPCs published with specific subraces listed. The Sun Elves are only marginally (~6-7%) "more evil" than the Moon Elves, as printed.
Sigh. :(
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Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2006 : 02:37:48
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Named NPCs are a bare fraction of any race make up. Sometimes they are the exception sometimes they are the rule.
The history of the Drark Elves during the crown war has few if any good named NPCs, but Eilistraee had (according to canon) a strong following before the Dark Disaster. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2006 : 02:43:40
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quote:
Named NPCs are a bare fraction of any race make up. Sometimes they are the exception sometimes they are the rule.
In this case, these examples support the rule. That's my point. The Evil Sun Elves are the exceptions.
quote:
The history of the Drark Elves during the crown war has few if any good named NPCs, but Eilistraee had (according to canon) a strong following before the Dark Disaster.
Out of pure curiosity, where does this come from? I'm not saying it's not true, I was just unaware of the fact. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2006 : 03:33:36
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From 2nd Edition
quote:
Major Centers of Worship: Before the elven Crown Wars, Eilisrraee's faith was strong in Miyeritar, and she had small numbers of faithful in Ilythiir and the other elven realms of the time. The Dark Disaster, unleashed during the Third Crown War, transformed Miyeritar into the blasted wasteland now known as the High Moor and dealt a devastating blow to the ranks of the Dark Maiden's followers. When the Ilythiiri were transformed into the drow and banished from the sunlit lands at the end of the Fourth Crown War some five hundred years later, Eilistraee's church effectively collapsed and was not reformed for millennia. A few ancient, sacred sites of power built before the Crown Wars survive in the Misty Forest, along the borders of the High Moor, and in the Shar, scattered across the onceverdant savannah.
Other lore clearly indicates that all Dark Elves were transformed regardless of aligned nature, including any surviving Miyeritar dark elves.
In some ways this is going in circles, I agree not all Gold Elves are evil, just have a lore indicating some major (in Elven History) remembered Evil acts to them. The followers of the Dark Maiden punished for no just reason has no place in Elven history except as evil. We will never know of what power struggles took place in those ancient realms that allowed House Vyshaantito rule one empire, we know even less about the Dark elf and green elf Houses that fought against a gold/sun elf empire.
I suspect many Dark Elves fought against the evil Ilythiiri leaders of just as much as they fought against the evil leaders of Aryvandaar and all that followed thier orders.
At best the Gold came out better in the resoliotion, no Gold could weild a ruler blade (later called moonblades because no sun elf survived contact, I still wonder if a Green elf might have one or more). The good Dark Elves were not even invited to the party to try, some spin it as High magic gone awry again, however this makes little sense as the Desesent was (at least) reported to be direct Divine action as oposed to High Magic error factor (deities do not have spell failure). |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2006 : 03:37:07
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Josidiah Durothil: Went on the quest to recover the Artblade.
He was a Starym. But still a gold elf. :) |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2006 : 03:42:02
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quote:
Originally posted by El Magnifico Uno
And given FRs take on large power structures (*coughFlowerPowercough*) saying that the Gold Elves were ambitious and powerful is hardly beneficial to their cause.
 How so? There's nothing inherently wrong with being ambitious and powerful. Most heroes in the Realms are "powerful", and often want more power--no one seems to think there is anything wrong with that. Besides, aren't humble heroes a cliche by now?
Also, I think you are wrong in saying that established lore paints good sun elves as the exceptions. If that's the case, they wouldn't be lumped with all the other surface elves alignment-wise (as mostly good). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 02 Jul 2006 03:43:16 |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2006 : 03:42:41
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I'm an idiot. You're right, of course, Rino. Starym. :)
The true heir to the Starym Clan... Who never showed up again after seeking the Artblade. *sad* |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 13:26:48
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| The Ilythirii were ONE nation of dark elves, but all the dark elves were punished for their sins. This is something I have never forgiven the other elves for. Maybe some people who are angry about this have projected their anger at the sun elves because they need to lash out at someone they hold responsible for this. I don`t know how many people are like that, I at least. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 14:08:46
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quote:
-10110 Elf clerics and high mages in Illefarn begin a decades-long prayer for salvation.
-10000 The Seldarine respond to the arcane and divine high magic of the elves by smiting the Ilythiiri. All dark elves are transformed into drow and driven underground, thus ending the Fourth Crown War.
Illefarn was a nation of sun, moon and wood elves with many shield dwarves besides. Dark elves can not blame Gold Elves for the creation of Drow. The blame for this appears to either most of the fair elves or the Seldarine. The Gold elves more clearly are responsible for the Dark Disater though canon I believe still leaves a bit of a question mark on this event. High magic that likely did not just come from one house, though that is posible as well.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 20:09:16
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High Magic could well have come from a single House as powerful as the Vyshaanti. :)
And I'm frankly a bit weary of people complaining about how all Dark Elves were banished along with the Ilythiiri.
First of all, how do we even know that that's what the Elves intended? If anything, I think Lolth manipulated the Ritual so that she could get her claws into ALL Dark Elves.
And second of all, how many good/neutral Dark Elves were there at the time? As I've said, we only have ONLY one major source of Dark Elven populace - and that was Ilythiir.
And I'll also note that Illefarn was never portrayed as an "Evil" Realm. It wasn't even the Aryvandaarians who did it, as Kentinal pointed out, and they are the ones who tend to get all of the blame for everything that had ever happened during the Crown War. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
Edited by - GothicDan on 03 Jul 2006 20:10:33 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 20:59:03
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
High Magic could well have come from a single House as powerful as the Vyshaanti. :)
It is indeed posible that the Dark disaster was a result of High Mages from House Vyshaanti alone, we however also know both Dark and Green High Mages entered the storm to try to dispell it (never to be seen again).quote:
And I'm frankly a bit weary of people complaining about how all Dark Elves were banished along with the Ilythiiri.
First of all, how do we even know that that's what the Elves intended? If anything, I think Lolth manipulated the Ritual so that she could get her claws into ALL Dark Elves.
We are told that only the Ilythiiri were the target of the prays, not the Miyeritar.quote:
And second of all, how many good/neutral Dark Elves were there at the time? As I've said, we only have ONLY one major source of Dark Elven populace - and that was Ilythiir.
Apparently a lot of them in Miyeritar, that took refuge status in other Elven nations. We do not know how many elves were killed as a Result of the Dark Dister but we do know there were survivors. We even know that Eilistraee had some Ilythiiri followers.quote:
And I'll also note that Illefarn was never portrayed as an "Evil" Realm. It wasn't even the Aryvandaarians who did it, as Kentinal pointed out, and they are the ones who tend to get all of the blame for everything that had ever happened during the Crown War.
Other then the Dark Disaster the only other proof of Gold being eliv (or at least not pure) is the moonblades because every Gold that tried for one died.
It should be noted that part of the fustration Dark Elves might harbor is that the Seldarine applied a widesweeping change on all Dark Elves (even those that oposed the Ilythiiri) were forced to desend, that the Gold (espcially the Vyshaanti) were not directly punished for their acts. The test of the sword was on a voluntree base, no Gold had to touch it. Only those in first instance that were not considered suitable died. I still believe that some Green should have a Moonblade. Perhaps even a few good Dark Elves.
My complaint stems from a lack of justice in how the two subraces were treated. Many (there is no official numbers of any race, or a breakdown of alignment) Dark Elves were forced from the surface that likely had nothing to do with the Crown Wars. All the Gold lost were a few heirs to their Houses. There is a big difference between the treatment between the two subraces.
It is unlikely there will be more canon coming forth concerning this ancient war, though it might be interesting to see a novel (or series) about Eilistraee and her develpment and followers from the time she acepted exile to current timeline. Good Drow do have some popularity so a book might sell well, tell Eilistraee's story after all WotSQ told Lolth's.
Often answers given can cause more questions something WotC perhaps does not desire. They of course need to look at the bottom line as well. If there is enough interest, perhaps we will so more about other good Drow within the next three years. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 03 Jul 2006 21:00:30 |
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Arkhaedun
Senior Scribe
869 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 21:45:49
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This thread is really starting to turn into a circular arguement. Either we should find something new to discuss here, or those interested in continuing this should take it to PMs. Thanks all.
If you have any questions or concerns, please PM me. |
Edited by - Arkhaedun on 03 Jul 2006 22:32:15 |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 22:07:26
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Arkhaedun, can you please explain why this is a circular discussion?
We are bringing up opinions and printed facts, and then debating them. There's no one getting personal or using disrespectful grammar.
I'm really not trying to be snarky, but I was unaware of the fact that such discussions were not sanctioned by the Candlekeep mods.
PS: Note that I am asking this in public, not via PMs, because there are multiple people engaging in the discussion. :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 22:25:18
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We are starting ti run out of printed facts. Not sure I am included in circular discussion, though I may have repeated some items, also tried to provide new items. There is not much to add though. The Gold as a whole should not be branded as Evil and were not punished for the acts of some leaders, OTOH it appears all Dark Elves were punished for the actions of thier leaders (Yes this statement is repeativive). In many ways there is not much lore to add to the thread. It comes down to opinions on what was just. I think in many ways about all that can be said on the matter has been said until a new canon is provided.
Disagreements in interpertation can still exist, but it is getting close to just exchange of opinions insterd of exchange of lore. Scrolls herein are to provide lore, not opinions without facts. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 03 Jul 2006 22:27:40 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 22:31:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Scrolls herein are to provide lore, not opinions without facts.
I have to disagree here, that's why we have the Sages of Realmslore section and since this isn't that section and it's the General FR Discussion section, then people can supply their opinions without facts. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 22:59:25
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Interesting that some of the historical figures in history best known for the use of scrolls - the Greeks - wrote a lot about philosophy, literature, and fiction. No facts. ;)
Oh, and another factual note..
quote:
Other then the Dark Disaster the only other proof of Gold being eliv (or at least not pure) is the moonblades because every Gold that tried for one died.
Elaine has pointed out that, regardless of whether they were Good or Evil, Gold Elves could not wield Moonblades. :) It was a purely mystical quality, it seems. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
Edited by - GothicDan on 03 Jul 2006 23:01:34 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 03:22:05
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We don't know anything about the High Magic ritual which transformed the dark elves other than that it happened and all dark elves were affected. Given what Elaine wrote about the High Magic ritual which culminated in the Sundering, and made it clear that its final effect and form wasn't controlled by its casters, hypothetically the same thing could have been done with the Descent of the Drow ritual. They may not have intended for all dark elves to be affected in the fashion they were, but lost control of the ritual due to its sheer size and scope. Ever since, enlightened elves (such as some of the Coronals of Cormanthyr) have recognised that not all drow are evil and have accomodated them accordingly - likely knowing that their progenitors, the dark elves, were not all evil also and that some sort of penance or acknowledgement of their eons old mistake was required. The story of the dark elves is missing a few chapters. Mayhap they'll be discovered soon.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 03:44:17
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| I hope so, George. :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
Edited by - GothicDan on 04 Jul 2006 03:53:07 |
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Yet another elf related question
