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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jun 2006 : 23:39:37
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What names do the common people of the realms dare not to utter even in private comapny? Like would you stop the celebration in a Luskan tavern if you said something about Manshoon? Or maybe Larloch? I would almost assume Larloch and his existence is a fact u8nknown to most. Humans have short memories. Or so I'm told. 
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Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 00:24:25
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| I think it really depends on where you are at. I mean most "commoners", would know local lore or rumors, but may not have a single idea of what happens more than a 100 miles away from there community. Just by reading the city of splendors recently, I think a good example here would be Elaith. People truly noticed when he made an appearance, even if he was just hanging off to the side of a revel, people still took note. I would imagine that local folks would even look around for trouble just at the mention of his name in Waterdeep and nearby communities. However, would this be the same if he appeared in Sembia somewhere? Besides being an elf here, I do not think many would recognize who he was or really make the connection if his name was uttered. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 00:33:21
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So far as I know, there aren't any people that are feared so much that their names are avoided... He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named would be out of luck, in the Realms.  |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 01:25:48
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| Well, I guess the cat is out of the bag. Although my question may have been fueled by a circumstance that happens in a popular juvenile book series I would like to know if there is anybody that truly is feared by just stating their name. I'm sure the regional situation concerning Elaith is a great example but what about that one bad dude from Calimport. What is his name.....Artemis Entretri. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 01:38:31
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Well, I think that the old 1st ed. rule can still have some bearing. The one that said anytime you uttered a demon's or devil's name there was a 1% chance that the being would hear and show up (unbound) or something like that...
And as Scrererar mentioned it would likely depend on the current geographic location of the speaker. Mentioning the name of The Simbul in Thay might suddenly put all eyes and ears in your direction.
I could imagine Halaster having a similar reputation among the more common folk of Waterdeep. Pehaps as an old wives tale, that if you say his name you run the risk of being sucked into Undermountain somehow.
Given recent history, the names of the Devil Dragon or ghazneths might be consindered equally unspeakable by folks in Cormyr. |
Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 07:00:04
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Artemis Entreri? Pft.
I think that it's really hard for non-spellcasters to be feared universally just by invoking their name... Mostly because spellcasters are the only types that the every-day person fears because they're so alien and eldritch. Entreri is a very good swordsman with some magical items - a farmer can understand something he can hit and dodge (even if he can't actually do it, statistically). The IDEA he understands.
He has no clue how Orbakh could pass through a shadow in Westgate and suddenly step out of the shadow of his dresser in Archendale. He has no clue how Zulkir Nevron calls upon the Seventh Seal of the Maleficent Lord Dispater of the Second Hell, and by speaking the dreaded True Speech binds a legion of Barbed Devils to his will.
Remember, humanity most fears what it does not understand. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 15:13:59
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Well, I would think the names of evil gods mainly. In other cases it would vary from area to area and with the people in question. Manshoon, great dragons, Uthgard chiefs and Arcane Brotherhood members would all be feared in their area of operation, but not everywhere.
This question also depends on the role you let superstition and such play in the Realms. There are many examples of the power of naming in realmslore, especially in Ed's, but how this works on the cultural beliefs around the names I don't no. But if the general belief is that you risk calling a beings attention or summoning it (I don't mean that in the magical sense) by using its name, people would avoid using the name of any being they feared. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 19:04:47
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Artemis Entreri? Pft.
I think that it's really hard for non-spellcasters to be feared universally just by invoking their name... Mostly because spellcasters are the only types that the every-day person fears because they're so alien and eldritch. Entreri is a very good swordsman with some magical items - a farmer can understand something he can hit and dodge (even if he can't actually do it, statistically). The IDEA he understands.
He has no clue how Orbakh could pass through a shadow in Westgate and suddenly step out of the shadow of his dresser in Archendale. He has no clue how Zulkir Nevron calls upon the Seventh Seal of the Maleficent Lord Dispater of the Second Hell, and by speaking the dreaded True Speech binds a legion of Barbed Devils to his will.
Remember, humanity most fears what it does not understand.
I think in the Calimshan area, Artemis would be a name that is feared, especially within the underworld there. I know it is not a name, but the word Drow, would probably be a show stopper. Once again, I would still refer to my earlier post, of a more regional type of lore that the "common" folk of the realms would use to for fearing a person, place, or thing. A commoner in the dales would probably not be knowledgable of the issues, wives tales, and fear invoking names from places in... say Mulhorand, Calimshan, or Cormyr. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 19:33:47
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| I agree about the regional thing. But even in Calimshan, I bet Shoon evokes more terror than Artemis. People can understand a guy with a dagger... An ancient demi-lich calling up the souls of the dead, and slaughtering unicorns just to make a staff out of their horns? That's the stuff of nightmares. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2006 : 19:41:26
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| Yeah, the regional theory does strike true it would seem. Also, the intagible fear of the unknown does gives magic users an edge. I think we have a basic understanding of "regional magic-user fear". Sounds like a great realms based psychological disorder doesn't it? Considering that half of Thay has it because of The Simbul. |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2006 : 04:04:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wandering_mage
Yeah, the regional theory does strike true it would seem. Also, the intagible fear of the unknown does gives magic users an edge. I think we have a basic understanding of "regional magic-user fear". Sounds like a great realms based psychological disorder doesn't it? Considering that half of Thay has it because of The Simbul.
Arcanaphobia anyone? |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2006 : 20:42:12
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| A jest well timed Dargoth! |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 00:31:23
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The names of some of my characters.  |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 00:54:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
The names of some of my characters.
You tease every one by not posting the names you are referencing. I bet most of your characters are spell-casters or rogues. In fact I am going to say you have a mean Druid. Am I right? You know I bet druids are feared Faerun wide as a whole organization come to think of it. Maybe more so than Assassins even. One day you are in the woods getting ready to cut down a nice big blueleaf, the next moment you got a pissed off wild man/woman eyeing you with vengeance bright in their eyes..... Try talking your way out of that one.  |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 02:45:40
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| I do have some tough druids. And yes, many of my characters are indeed spellcasters (one in particular has rogue levels). They are, for the most part, kindly--but one must take care not to piss them off. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 09:10:56
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As for Druids - they are all too often overlooked by potential players when creating new characters. I never exactly knew why but I have never played with a single Druid. Is the druids potential so much underestimated? Or is it that its hard playing an adventuring druid, when he should be caring for some woodland?
Ergdusch |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 09:48:34
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| I always thought that Druids were one of the more-often played class.. Or at least not one of the most underplayed ones. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 11:08:04
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
I always thought that Druids were one of the more-often played class.. Or at least not one of the most underplayed ones.
I find the druid to be one of the more underplayed classes as well. Although I have had a couple in my various games they are not well represented, especially for how powerful the class is in 3E.
Druids, Bards, Monks, Barbarians, and of course Sorcerers tend to be underplayed classes in my games. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 20:45:48
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| That's because none of them fall within the most typical 4 player concepts: Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Wizard. :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2006 : 22:39:51
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| For anyone who has seen "The Gamers"... a name to be feared: The Shadow :) |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2006 : 00:53:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
Or is it that its hard playing an adventuring druid, when he should be caring for some woodland?
I don't think so...you can make excuses like that for any class, really. Some druids like to take an active role in protecting nature. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2006 : 08:24:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
Or is it that its hard playing an adventuring druid, when he should be caring for some woodland?
I don't think so...you can make excuses like that for any class, really. Some druids like to take an active role in protecting nature.
I would think the same. Anyone played PC-game Baldurs Gate? There was this fighter/druid Jaheira that I think is a great example for an adventuring druid. Even though she was a little too melodramatic if not to say annoying at times...
However, most players seem to disagree or not to think of the "guardian of nature" as an interesting pc. They rather play a ranger instead.
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2006 : 13:09:35
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| To bring the scroll somewhat back on topic - I bet that mentioning Shuruppak, either by his own name, or as "The Reaper," in Unther (and increasingly, as the war continues, in Mulhorand), would cause a few heads to turn your way. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2006 : 14:50:32
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As to the Reaper, funny enough I have never heard of that person....monster? As to the subject of Druids. Way underplayed and fantastically awesome for capabilities and role-playing possibilities. I had an NPC Druid that I enjoyed using. Sadly he died at the hands..er the sword of a helmed horror . |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Bluenose
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2006 : 15:11:04
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I doubt if there'd be any individual who's feared throughout the whole Realms. I also think that it would depend on the culture that you're talking in. If the local superstition claims that saying a wizards or evil gods name draws their attention, that's a set of names to avoid already. I'd personally divide the "names to avoid/names that people wince at" into three categories.
Local powers, people who are powerful, willing to use their power, and who aren't always going to do it in a way that benefits you (Granny Weatherwax anyone? ). Thay don't even need to be evil, just powerful and local. Someone like Manshoon is at the high end of this class, but I wouldn't expect his name to be common knowledge in somewhere like Amn, and possibly not even further from Zhentil Keep than Cormyr or Sembia. Most will be less malevolent and less active than Manshoon, simply to avoid attracting the attention on adventurers or forcing the locals into action themselves. Probably a lot of druids would meet these criteria.
Secondly you'd have members of groups. If a solitary necromancers sets himself up next to the village graveyard and starts experimenting, then a party of adventurers or a large mob with torch and pitchfork can try to sort him out. But if that necromancer is a Red Wizard, there are consequences to think about. Killing a necromancer because she animated your granny as a skeleton is one thing, when the necromancer's relatives are going to take your whole village away to be slaves in Thay then grandmother dosen't actually need her bones that much any more. Known or suspected Zhentarim or Shadow Thieves (and other groups) would probably get similar reactions.
Last I think would be the "mystery" figures, Faerun's equivalent to Jack the Ripper and others like him. I'd expect that this sort of figure would be much scarier than in the Real World, since they'd probably need some means to prevent magical divination/detection working and there's a more than reasonable chance that they aren't in fact human.
quote:
As to the Reaper, funny enough I have never heard of that person....monster?
Basically he was the Chosen of Gilgeam, the now deceased god who ruled Unther, and since Gilgeam wished to be feared above everything else Shuruppal/The Reaper became exceptionally good at viciousness and cruelty. Surviving after the death of Gilgeam made him a free agent, still vicious and cruel, of around 25th level. I think there's some suggestion that the cult of Shar is interested in recruiting him, but that's all the recent news I know |
These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.
Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned, these defended,
And saved the sum of things for pay. |
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Disturbedone0777
Acolyte
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2006 : 04:54:47
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Well with all the above being said I see something of a miss in every eventuality. I mean a given person may not know the name Manshoon. He is a well respected figure in his posistion but has everyone hear of him? I would doubt it. However everyone more or less has heard of the Zhents and theier underhanded dealings and I doubt that any one person would want to deeply piss off that organization.
You mention the name of Artemis. I've read my share of Forgotten Realms novels and as cool as he is, he is still a silent assassin whom I doubt wants his name around. I do not believe that he would be known that well outside of Calimshan and the areas that he has worked in.
A name that rings the realms is the famous (or infamous if you prefer) Drizzit. Then only reason that he is well known is how obscure he really is. There is no reason that any person should trust a drow who by their very nature are evil. However when something as uncommon as he surfaces and reaches a level of power and respect that he has obtained I am sure that his name is pretty well known through out the whole of Toril.
Where most people know the names of the more powerful Deitys, thats not to say that everyone knows every God. I do not doubt that most all people other then nomads have heard of Bane, Mystra, and Lathander. They are by far the main gods. But there are lesser known dietys. I can tell you that comparing that to the real world, I have little knowledge reguarding religion outside of the more common ones.
So my ruling on something like this would be that it is all area and culture specific if a name would stop a party where it stood. I doubt the name Drizzit would stop a gathering in the South-East, and I doubt that a name like Manshoon would strike fear into any of those that served him loyally. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2006 : 05:11:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Disturbedone0777
A name that rings the realms is the famous (or infamous if you prefer) Drizzit. Then only reason that he is well known is how obscure he really is. There is no reason that any person should trust a drow who by their very nature are evil. However when something as uncommon as he surfaces and reaches a level of power and respect that he has obtained I am sure that his name is pretty well known through out the whole of Toril.
I like your comments, but I think I'd have to disagree with you there. He is well known among FR fans, but I don't think that means he is well known throughout the whole planet of Toril...especially since his adventures tend to take place on a pretty local scale. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Disturbedone0777
Acolyte
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2006 : 07:29:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I like your comments, but I think I'd have to disagree with you there. He is well known among FR fans, but I don't think that means he is well known throughout the whole planet of Toril...especially since his adventures tend to take place on a pretty local scale.
There is some contradiction to that. If you have read the icewind dale series then you know that he has been to Calimshan in the south and his name is well known through out the underdark. The fact that there is a good Drow that has been helping the Northern armies kind of earns him more rep points. Also if you have read the more recent series "The Hunters Blade" you also would know how known he really is through out elven lands. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2006 : 08:21:03
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quote:
There is some contradiction to that. If you have read the icewind dale series then you know that he has been to Calimshan in the south
Just because he's been somewhere, or even if he's done a little adventuring somewhere, doesn't mean that he'd be known there.
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and his name is well known through out the underdark.
In a handful of cities at best...
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The fact that there is a good Drow that has been helping the Northern armies kind of earns him more rep points.
I doubt that the majority of the warriors in the Silver Marches knows that he's "helping" them, and half of those who do probably think it little more than rumor. Remember, the vast majority of people don't even know that Elminster is anything but a sage and maybe a wizard of indeterminate power.
quote:
Also if you have read the more recent series "The Hunters Blade" you also would know how known he really is through out elven lands.
Elven Lands are pretty much exclusive to Evermeet and Evereska, with secondaries of Cormanthyr, Silverymoon, and perhaps the Yuirwood. Drizzt hasn't had a presence in any of those areas other than in Silverymoon.
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Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2006 : 11:05:57
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I would say that Drizzt is well known in a few areas. I don't think Calimport would be one of them, since his adventures there weren't exactly public knowledge. He may be well known to certain circles of pirates and ship captains around Waterdeep (a period of time that is oft forgotten in Drizzt's career). There is also some regional anecdotal evidence that in present day Silver Marches Drizzt is known fairly well (remember the Drizzt novels are several years behind the current timeline) since he is mentioned as being the subject of a ballad in Ghostwalker.
As far as elven lands, Drizzt is well known in the Moonwood among the elves that live there, but for the most part, the elves in the Moonwood are smaller moon elven families that are more or less refugees from Earlann, and its not really a major elven nation in and of itself. Although you could argue that he is well known in the Kingdom of Dark Arrows and Shining White. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2006 : 20:26:15
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Yes, I'd agree that Drizzt is pretty well known throughout the North. However, note that "the North" does not equal "all of Toril". That's the whole planet. I wouldn't even say Drizzt is well known throughout the continent of Faerun.
And by the way...I have read every one of the Drizzt novels, so I know what I am talking about, here. I also agree with those who say Drizzt's adventures in Calimshan don't automatically make him well known there... |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 22 Jun 2006 20:28:12 |
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Names to be feared
