| Author |
 Topic  |
|
GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 04:58:11
|
*Applauds.*
Ahem. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
 |
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 04:58:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
And arguing that we aren't being objective is silly.
I'm not arguing that anyone is acting a certain way, except perhaps myself. I am simply making some comments. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 05:57:00
|
| Arguing, suggesting, implying, commenting, same words for the same action. You're being polite and non-confrontational about it, which is one of the reasons I love this site, since that holds true for most discussions on most topics, but you're doing it all the same. Not that I particularly mind (again, because you're being polite), but I also believe in calling a horse a horse. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
|
|
|
Swordsage
Learned Scribe
149 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 06:15:17
|
Every edition of the game has caused fan problems with the Realms. From the decision with the first 1E boxed set to 'exclude' areas of the Realms from development, to the ToT in 2E, to the revamps made with 3E. You can't please all of the people all of the time.
The Swordsage
|
|
|
|
GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 06:18:40
|
| You can't. However, sometimes it's not hard to compromise and at least make many people not -angry- at you. :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
|
|
|
Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5696 Posts |
|
|
monch9
Seeker
Poland
67 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 08:19:16
|
Hi All,
I don't know if this is the right place to put it. A heads up for 2007, in the "boards that shall not be named", Rich Baker wrote :
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!
You might see some more detail on the "missing time" (and we did that quite deliberately) filled in during the back half of 2007. Can't say more than that now.
Monch |
|
|
|
monch9
Seeker
Poland
67 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 08:21:00
|
Sorry for being vague, the reference to missing time above is the 5 years between the last chapter and the epilogue.
Monch |
|
|
|
Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2006 : 12:16:34
|
| I expected nothing less, but it is gratifying that there are plans in the works to fill in some of the blanks. Though how they can fill in a 5 year hole that jumps forward past the current date without straight-jacketing everyone who comes after is an interesting thought. I look forward to seeing what they come up with. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2006 : 02:26:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Arguing, suggesting, implying, commenting, same words for the same action.
Not really.  Think what you want though--it's not my concern.
|
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2006 : 13:40:57
|
Just finished it!
and I enjoyed it
I love that evil at least won in some small way ie Zhentil Keep claiming Hillsfar (Although this makes Mysteries of the Moonseas even less useful 
This imagine should mean Scyllua Darkhopes recruitment penalty in Powers of Faerun should be changed after all the Zhents have just toppled an enemy who has oppossed them for decades
The whole demons servicing together with devils thing doesnt worry me Ive always though of the whole planescape/blood war thing as being rather stupid. Arch devils and Demon Princes arent stupid (Stat wise most have Inteligences in the High 20s and would realse that the Blood war is costly waste of resources)
|
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
|
|
|
Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2006 : 13:54:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
The whole demons servicing together with devils thing doesnt worry me Ive always though of the whole planescape/blood war thing as being rather stupid. Arch devils and Demon Princes arent stupid (Stat wise most have Inteligences in the High 20s and would realse that the Blood war is costly waste of resources)
I would think that there are quite a few Arch Devils and far more Demon Princes in Hell and Abyss that some take great importance and pride in fighting the Blood war while others more like to scheme against their own kind and jet others - as in this case - servicing together (at least until some point later in time where one group is trying to overthrough the other, most likley!  ).
So I have no problem with such a constillation eiter, even though it is a little odd to the conservative gamer at first.
Ergdusch
|
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2006 : 16:18:15
|
Btw,
The demons/devils hating each other actually came out long before Planescape. It was detailed way back in 1e and so to claim it's a Planescape event shows ignorance. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
BobROE
Learned Scribe
Canada
106 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2006 : 03:37:53
|
| I generally liked it, even though it got wrapped up far too quickly. And I felt it was better than the last book of RotD (Ruin?). However I really could have done without the last chapter (epilogue?), cause it looks the future of the realms into a particular course, something I feel could be better detailed in source books rather than novels. Also I don't really like that sembia occupies the dales for a good chunk of 1375, which goes against what I like about the dales. But what you going to do? |
|
|
|
Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2006 : 23:17:21
|
I just finished Final Gate, and I absolutely loved it! It was an easy read. I couldn't put it down.
I understand about the "paper doll" characters. One could say that characters like Nesterin and Donner were just "NPCs" with no depth. I've heard the same idea come up with the Rogue Dragon books AND City of Splendors. Though I do understand those feelings, and even though I might share them to a degree, I didn't care one bit. I could tell the difference between them without having to be given names, so I had no major gripes about that. I don't necessarily expect whatever it is people are expecting in these novels.
I loved the characters. Araevin and his "party," so classic. Severil, Fflar, Ilsevele, Selkirk, Sarya, Xalph, MALKAZID... The moments with Scylua and Fzoul... Slam DUNK! Scylua's maiming of that beholder was an awesome scene. We need a whole novel dealing with her. Scylua vs. Alusair.  Make it happen.
The quests were solid in my book. The portal journeys... Lorosfyr (nice reference to Underdark... I looked it up immediately ), the Barrens (which was a real treat, since I've taken my PCs to that plane), and the Waymeet were all so vivid in my mind. I also really enjoyed the military campaign. Final Gate's battles just about matched those from Death of the Dragon (which were utter gore fests), and the great battle through the streets of Myth Drannor was just so epic not only on a power level but on a Realmsfan level as well. It was just a great moment.
I like the idea of the elves Return. It allows for more drama in the future. The elves have retaken Myth Drannor! That's incredible. I also really appreciated the glimpse of the future at the end. Ilsevele as Coronal, wielding the Ruler's Blade as a scepter... Very nicely done.
I liked how the main foes were killed or banished. Some concrete finality! I was pleased that Sarya didn't slink away to fight another day. I loved how Fflar bested Xalph with such ease, and Araevin's defeat of Sarya was great.
Araevin's spellcasting was immaculate! I loved every moment of his high magic casting. I have such a statuesque, stately, rigidly powerful image of him. He's great. I also appreciated how he and Ilsevele closed the book on their relationship. Araevin choosing (consciously or unconsciously) magic over love reminds me of Raistlin for some reason, and I like that. Fflar and Ilsevele falling for each other so quickly... even they knew it was odd. No complaints here.
Sev's death was sad but still cool. It's true, he knew he was going to die, but it wasn't hand-fed to us or beaten to death. I liked that a lot. I still LOVE the fact that he actually resurrected Fflar. I'm still stunned by that.
Another thing that I REALLY appreciated about this series is the perspective it gives for FR DMs. The series is a great companion for anyone's FR campaign. There's so much fantastic Realmslore, of course, but there are also a lot of things happening in the novel that could also be happening at an epic or near-epic gaming table. The fashioning of mythals and the dabbling in epic spellcasting. Confrontations with hordes of fiends and an arch-fiend (Malkazid). A detailed military campaign involving humans, elves, (no dwarves, sadly  ), demons, devils, yugoloths, and fey'ri. The execution of large-scale battles involving high-level magic, fiends, flying creatures, etc. Such great food for any campaign, and a great role-playing reference as well.
The Last Mythal series really takes me back to my first experiences with Spellfire, Shadow of the Avatar, and other Greenwood greats that, for me, showcase the Realms as they truly are. I definitely consider Last Mythal required reading.
|
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
Edited by - Crust on 10 Jul 2006 23:25:31 |
|
|
|
SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2006 : 23:34:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Crust
I like the idea of the elves Return. It allows for more drama in the future. The elves have retaken Myth Drannor! That's incredible. I also really appreciated the glimpse of the future at the end. Ilsevele as Coronal, wielding the Ruler's Blade as a scepter... Very nicely done.
I hated looking into the future, for a couple of reasons. Nothing will be a surprise now, it's much like the situation we have with Drizzt and the Silver Marchs. We know what happens to the nations but it happening in the novels is no where in site.
It's the exact opposite here. It happens in the novels, and the supplements and the rest of the Realms won't be there for another 5 years or more... assuming WOTC lasts that long...
quote:
Another thing that I REALLY appreciated about this series is the perspective it gives for FR DMs. The series is a great companion for anyone's FR campaign. There's so much fantastic Realmslore, of course, but there are also a lot of things happening in the novel that could also be happening at an epic or near-epic gaming table. The fashioning of mythals and the dabbling in epic spellcasting. Confrontations with hordes of fiends and an arch-fiend (Malkazid). A detailed military campaign involving humans, elves, (no dwarves, sadly ), demons, devils, yugoloths, and fey'ri. The execution of large-scale battles involving high-level magic, fiends, flying creatures, etc. Such great food for any campaign, and a great role-playing reference as well.
Yes, plenty of reference material, but absolutely no gaming material with no supplemental support. The worse part is the supplement that just came out doesn't even include any of the changes that just happened in the novel.
I enjoyed the series, but I just hate how the continue to mismatch their novels and supplements.
|
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 02:54:42
|
quote:
Originally posted by Crust
The Last Mythal series really takes me back to my first experiences with Spellfire, Shadow of the Avatar, and other Greenwood greats that, for me, showcase the Realms as they truly are.
Really?
At least Greenwood's characters and stories have some semblance of joy and personality to them. I haven't found much of that in this book so far. Honestly, I can't imagine a series more different from Shadow of the Avatar--The Rangers Three said things besides "I have a bad feeling about this." See my comments in the Book Club thread, if you're interested. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 11 Jul 2006 02:57:33 |
|
|
|
SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 03:59:01
|
| Hmph! I loved the Rangers Three and wish we'd get more of them! |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 04:20:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Hmph! I loved the Rangers Three and wish we'd get more of them!
I don't know if you're talking to me, but in case you think I was putting the Rangers Three down, I wasn't. Quite the opposite. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 08:07:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I don't know if you're talking to me, but in case you think I was putting the Rangers Three down, I wasn't. Quite the opposite.
Oh.. well carry on then! :) |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2006 : 23:36:47
|
No offense, but how did you misinterpret my post? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 00:23:34
|
I'm hoping we see at least one of the Ranger's Three in Swords of Eveningstar.  |
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 00:24:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by Crust
I'm hoping we see at least one of the Ranger's Three in Swords of Eveningstar.
We probably will, knowing Ed. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 10:05:36
|
Well, if I've understood things correctly it's set during the early days of the Knights. So that'd be a very young ranger then.
...But I'd still like to see some more of Sharwyn. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
|
|
|
Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 10:23:29
|
| Isn't Sharwyn the name of a bard henchwoman from NWN? |
|
|
|
Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2006 : 13:58:02
|
It is
I meant Sharantyr (Shar), obviously. That should teach me not to open my mouth (or should that be "bang on my keyboard?) when I've had something strong to drink just before... |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
|
|
|
riverc0il
Acolyte
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2006 : 01:43:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by Crust
The moments with Scylua and Fzoul... Slam DUNK! Scylua's maiming of that beholder was an awesome scene. We need a whole novel dealing with her.
i just finished the series and will post thoughts on the novel later when i have a chance to gather up my thoughts and write something well thoughout, but i just wanted to echo your statement. about scyula and fzoul. i kept waiting for one of these two to do some lame "typical bad guy screws up the plans," but it never happened! although, we were left hanging on what happened with these characters and hillsfair. the author left this sub-plot half way through final gate and never returned to the issue, trying to wrap it up by saying fzoul was happy with his gains or some non-sense. any ways, the beholder scene was by far the best scene in the entire book!!! it really shows you the character of scyula and what it takes to be a top dog amongst the zhents. the nerve! putting a beholder in its place with such a violent action, nicely done. |
-steve |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2006 : 02:17:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by riverc0il
the author left this sub-plot half way through final gate and never returned to the issue...
I agree. As well done as the Zhentarim scenes were, they felt tacked on and didn't really need to be in this novel. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2006 : 18:17:58
|
| Well I just finished reading the book. A very good read. Looks like that player in my campaign can forget about reclaiming Myth Drannon now (since we agreed to stay true to cannon)....he can help with what's going on now though :) |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
|
|
|
RichardBaker
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
129 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2006 : 21:57:39
|
I'm glad you enjoyed the read!
By way of dropping a hint about upcoming events... you can expect the Zhents and the Cormanthyran drow to come to an understanding about the new management in Myth Drannor. You can add to the story by building adventures themed around helping the elves to root out hidden drow fortresses and unmask Zhent spies.
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Well I just finished reading the book. A very good read. Looks like that player in my campaign can forget about reclaiming Myth Drannon now (since we agreed to stay true to cannon)....he can help with what's going on now though :)
|
Rich Baker
Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Final Gate (spoilers)
