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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Jul 2006 : 23:31:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Dear Lady Rinonalyrna, you are evil...and that is good :-)
*takes a bow* Thank you!
quote:
It's sad to see that describtions were repeated ad nauseum, I mean when characters are introduced, sure you need to know what they look like, but in the second and third book of a trilogy....
Yes, I noticed that too...I understand that it's for new readers, but when you've read the first two books, you don't need more infodumps about hair color, height, clothing, etc. And speaking of which, I don't think anyone needs to know or even cares what color thread Nesterin's shirt is embroidered with, and the like--although to be fair, there isn't too much of that, thankfully. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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msatran
Learned Scribe
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2006 : 09:21:23
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Hey, I'd take a shot at writing one of these things, but I write too Hemingwayesque for them. I don't deal with long descriptions often, and there are times when I write when I write too much like Lester Dent.
On the other hand, Hero System kind of likes that, because they're taking my submissions. (Shrug) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2006 : 23:00:36
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Finished reading this novel last night. What is there left for me to say at this point? There were things that I liked (so Final Gate wasn't all bad), but there was a lot of stuff I just didn't care for. The overall style of the prose was way too humorless, solemn, and matter-of-fact for my taste, making the novel not even seem very Realmsian. Sarya, Xhalph, and most of the other important fey'ri are dead, but strangely, I can't say I felt very satisfied by their deaths. And it didn't help that Sarya started spouting off the same Big Bad Evil Guy cliches that Malkizid was by the end of the story.
A lot has already been said about the epilogue. I understand that it was an editor's decision to put that kind of epilogue in, but to me it felt very graceless and out of step with the rest of the book to just skip 6 years ahead from the rest of the plot. It doesn't matter to me that some sourcebook down the line will "fill in the blanks"--a novel has to stand on it's own as a story. I've always said I felt magical items that choose rulers (like the Ruler's Blade) are way overhyped, but to me it felt like "cheating" to show Ilsevele with the blade. I thought the Blade was about getting all the races to live together in peace, not necessarily resettling Myth Drannor. But that's just my take on it.
This whole novel (and indeed, this entire series) felt strangely...forced.
So all in all, this book just didn't do it for me. Sorry Rich--I did hope I would like this last novel.
On to Blackstaff. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 16 Jul 2006 23:01:17 |
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danifae
Acolyte
Canada
18 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2006 : 01:59:32
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I was quite pleased by the book, as said before it was a bit obvious that Araevin and Ilsevel would break up, but getting Fflar in was quite an unexpected (and nice) twist.
My only negative comment was that somehow at the beginning of the book I felt like I knew how it would end, I wasn't exactly right, but I got it pretty much right. Perhaps it sorta just leaned toward some ending.
All in all, I enjoyed reading it!
on a note towards the whole series: having a genasi in it is just wicked! hardly any writers do that, and it's always great to read on new stuff. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2006 : 05:22:31
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quote:
Originally posted by danifae
on a note towards the whole series: having a genasi in it is just wicked! hardly any writers do that...
The more novels you read (at least the newer ones), the more you find that isn't the case.
By now, plane-touched characters have become almost standard in novels. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 22 Jul 2006 05:23:04 |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2006 : 05:39:18
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| Yeah. It makes it kind of misleading; as does the fact that the planetouched races are right in the FRCS as if they shouldn't be supremely rare, for the most part... |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2006 : 05:42:46
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Yeah. It makes it kind of misleading; as does the fact that the planetouched races are right in the FRCS as if they shouldn't be supremely rare, for the most part...
That's exactly what I've believed for a long time.
That being said, I still like the air genasi in this book, because she actually feels like a living character. Not that she needed to be a genasi to be a good character, but still. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 22 Jul 2006 05:43:03 |
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El Magnifico Uno
Learned Scribe
113 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2006 : 18:38:21
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| What would be different in a Realms book (these days) would be if there WASN'T a half-vampire, aasimar-duergar paladin/monk who uses paired whips, or something along those lines.. |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2006 : 23:09:28
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| Stop being so hard on Malkizid, he just got out of tryouts for the next Final Fantasy so he was in character! |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2006 : 00:43:22
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Yeah. I'm tired of the really whacked-out parties, too...
But that isn't really necessary to this thread. Le cough. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2006 : 21:50:56
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Yeah. I'm tired of the really whacked-out parties, too...
Agreed, but they can't be worse than death scenes which make the dying person worthy of a Darwin Award.
Although in Seivy's case, it's too late, since he's already had Ilsevele. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2006 : 21:59:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
Stop being so hard on Malkizid, he just got out of tryouts for the next Final Fantasy so he was in character!
I knew it. Corporate sellout ho'! |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2006 : 22:19:28
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| Darwin's been foiled again! |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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dannyfu
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2006 : 05:47:10
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hey everyone, i know that i am a little late to be posting on this thread now that the book has been out for over a month. but i have been busy with a new job and i finally have received a chance to finish this book and i just wanted to add my two cents.
i was very pleased with this book as a whole. i won't get into my analysis of the whole book because i know this thread is almost dead. i just wanted to say i am thrilled the elves have resettled in myth drannor and ilsevele and fflar being the acting rulers is the greatest thing to have happened for me. fflar was my favorite character and i thought he had the most interesting story of all and i had my fingers crossed that he wouldn't bite the big one in here. so to find that he weds ilsevele to become the new elven "powercouple" was a delight. plus this calls for some new source books for the RPG side of things. woo! new 3.5 elves of faerun book! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 01:05:45
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As I've said before, I fail to see what is so special about these two characters (Ilsevele and Fflar) that makes them a "powercouple".
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 02 Aug 2006 01:15:36 |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 01:54:07
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Or what constitutes a "powercouple."
Is electricity involved? |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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dannyfu
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 04:52:37
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i know my powercouple statement was vague, what i personally was trying to convey when i used the term was in the essence of Amlaruil and Zaor. when i read Evermeet i loved them as individuals, a powerful mage and a kick @$$ warrior, and i loved how that tied into their lives as a couple and as rulers of the elves. i personally loved reading both Fflar's and Ilsevele's characters throughout the Last Mythal trilogy. whether you loved the books or not, you cannot deny that the elves planting the tree of souls (or "a" tree of souls) and re-establishing themselves in Myth Drannor is a Realms altering event for the race of elves. i have high hopes that in the future rich and other authors of both the novels and the RPG source books will touch on the husband and wife ruling myth drannor, one of which is an arcane archer, the other a baneblade wielding champion warrior.
no matter how much i enjoyed Evermeet and the developing story of Zaor and Almaruil, i knew it was going to end with Zaor's death. it was a self contained story within one book. the fact that Fflar, Ilsevele and Myth Drannor's rebirth is only in it's prologue, i am anxious to see where this goes. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 05:16:00
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quote:
whether you loved the books or not, you cannot deny that the elves planting the tree of souls (or "a" tree of souls) and re-establishing themselves in Myth Drannor is a Realms altering event for the race of elves.
The primary Tree of Souls was planted elsewhere, and the re-establishment of Myth Drannor was blatantly taking the spotlight off of Lamruil's realm (and the huge quest that the Evermeet novel set up) in favor of a the resettling what was perhaps the oldest and most renowned Faerunian adventuring spot in the Realms.
I can't say I'm fond of this.
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Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 05:19:16
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quote:
Originally posted by dannyfu
whether you loved the books or not, you cannot deny that the elves planting the tree of souls (or "a" tree of souls) and re-establishing themselves in Myth Drannor is a Realms altering event for the race of elves.
No one is denying that. Not that there aren't people just ignoring these events for their personal campaigns anyway, but no one is denying that the premise, on it's face, is a RSE. In fact, WotC has made a point of telling us that since before the books came out! So no offense, but your point is a bit moot.
However:
1) Not everyone likes the premise, for various (and often intensely personal) reasons.
2) Not everyone even thinks it was well-written. Trust me, I tried to like this book. I figured that I might as well go with the flow and feel as "touched" by the story as so many people are, but you know what? I wasn't. I didn't feel much of anything for Fflar and Ilsevele, either as a couple or simply as individuals. The novel tries to be solemn, important, and dramatic, but the parts that should have been poignant turned out to be mostly just laughable, thanks to the uninspired dialogue.
These characters can be as "powerful" as anything, but that means nothing to me if they don't have character. And that, my friend, is what all my fussing is about. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 02 Aug 2006 05:20:04 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 05:22:14
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
The primary Tree of Souls was planted elsewhere, and the re-establishment of Myth Drannor was blatantly taking the spotlight off of Lamruil's realm (and the huge quest that the Evermeet novel set up) in favor of a the resettling what was perhaps the oldest and most renowned Faerunian adventuring spot in the Realms.
I can't say I'm fond of this.
Right--on one hand, it's nice that Rich offered a nod to Lamruil's Hidden Realm and the Tree of Souls (NOT "a" tree of souls). On the other hand...what's the point of doing that, if the novel itself basically took away the reason for said city's very existence? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 14:41:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Right--on one hand, it's nice that Rich offered a nod to Lamruil's Hidden Realm and the Tree of Souls (NOT "a" tree of souls). On the other hand...what's the point of doing that, if the novel itself basically took away the reason for said city's very existence?
I have no particular desire to get dragged into this debate, but maybe it's possible that the elves are learning it may not be wise to put all their eggs in one basket. Just a possibility.
For what it's worth, I've enjoyed the series on the whole, agree that the characters aren't the most developed I've ever read, am also getting increasingly fed up with RSEs (though I have nothing much against this one) and am *still* waiting for my copy of Final Gate (and Blackstaff) to actually turn up so I can read the damn books! |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 15:20:04
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no one has also mentioned that there is a second mythal city regained by the elves in the series, Myth (can't remember the name) just north of Hellgate Dell...so that is two greta cities...plus you can imagine that the other Mythal city in the Eastern High Forest (with the green she-dragon in it) will be retaken soon...and now add in the one in the High Moor (the Blackstaff novel)
how many elves are in Evermeet anyways?? eleves were supposed to be like the dwarves, in decline...sheesh... |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2006 : 01:25:24
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
and now add in the one in the High Moor (the Blackstaff novel)
That city isn't specifically for elves, it's for people of all races who are willing to keep Oacenth's vow. It's also a magical place that you have to be invited to--you can't just move in there, and only a few select people even KNOW it exists.
I consider that city to be the true New Myth Drannor, actually, in spirit if not in location. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 03 Aug 2006 01:25:36 |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2006 : 01:29:30
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quote:
I have no particular desire to get dragged into this debate, but maybe it's possible that the elves are learning it may not be wise to put all their eggs in one basket. Just a possibility.
The Elves have lost serious numbers in both the attacks on Evereska and Evermeet, and they breed very, very slowly. They don't have the bloody numbers to start up TWO new kingdoms. :)
It's not good tactics to spread your people too thin. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
Edited by - GothicDan on 03 Aug 2006 01:30:27 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2006 : 01:30:54
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| Unless the kingdoms in question are each only about the size of a small town. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2006 : 01:32:02
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| Which doesn't really make one worthy of the name 'Coronal,' and doesn't really make Lamruil's realm truly a new hope for the Elves to Return to the proper continent, does it? ;) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2006 : 01:41:43
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Which doesn't really make one worthy of the name 'Coronal,' and doesn't really make Lamruil's realm truly a new hope for the Elves to Return to the proper continent, does it? ;)
Not in my opinion, no. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2006 : 14:13:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
That city isn't specifically for elves, it's for people of all races who are willing to keep Oacenth's vow. It's also a magical place that you have to be invited to--you can't just move in there, and only a few select people even KNOW it exists.
I consider that city to be the true New Myth Drannor, actually, in spirit if not in location.
I agree with that it now is not a city for elves but for all enlightened beings, but it was a city for elves (that’s why those elves objected to Khelban taking the city)
my point is that the Retreat took 30ish years to accomplish after how many decades of planning and in a couple of short years there are now how many new/retaken eleven cities/settlements?
Evermeet, Evereska, Synnoria, the Elves in the Wealdath (sp?) are among existing settlements
Now there is Myth Drannor, Myth Glaurach, Rhymanthiin, the “new homeland” where the Tree of Souls is planted in the arctic
Logically the Eaerlanni cities in the eastern High forest, Semberholm and the Elven Court will be retaken within a decade or two
Oh yeah, Myth Nantar was retaken too...
And the new Star Elves...
And then the teasings about Myth Adofhaer returning in the Star Mountains
And I’m still waiting for the other logical city to be founded, the “good” city of drow to appear
And sooner or later the Rockseer Elves will appear (hope so)
I know not all these places are 100% elf population but like I said, where are all these elves coming from? It doesn’t look like a Return but an Invasion 
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Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2006 : 14:50:53
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
I know not all these places are 100% elf population but like I said, where are all these elves coming from? It doesn’t look like a Return but an Invasion
I suggest clone factories. Or axotl tanks. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2006 : 15:37:10
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| The position of brand manager, or some other such thing, has been canceled, which saves bucks...it also let's the ship go without steering, compass and any coherent direction. Bloody sad, if you ask me |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Final Gate: Chapters 15 - 18 & Epilogue
