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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Apr 2006 : 17:26:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Speaking of Monsters of Faerun
In the Realms lore section of the Beast of Xvim it says Carina Tchazzam was killed by a Beast of Xvim/Bane in 1371 but in Nobles enhancement of City of Splendors shes still alive and still the House Heir.
Im wondering if MoF is cannon
Parts of it have to be; the stinger entry leads into Power of Faerun, for example. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2006 : 17:53:07
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And Lisa's psi trilogy expands on a entry in Monsters as well.
So as the others said, parts of it have to be.
As for the Volo thing, that web page is from 2000 and Monster's came out in 2001. Wizards hasn't updated that webpage since 2000 and so, since newer material over writes older material, obviously they made parts of that series canon even if Volo later writes about it 5 years later. As I said earlier, without that series being writen here on Earth then there wouldn't be a event to reference for a later sourcebook. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 26 Apr 2006 17:53:47 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2006 : 19:09:59
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Greetings,
I haven't read the DD books, actually, but I have read the discussions here on the board with a philosopher's eye, and I think that there are valid arguments, both, presenting alternate explanations for the similarity between the MoF entry and the events of the novellettes.
There are at least two completely different ways of reading it: Kuje's way, or George's way. (I'm sure there are many others as well!) That is, "does an entry to a doppelganger in a certain place in MoF, which seems reflective of the DD novellettes, entail that Volo is describing an actual event?"
I suppose it depends on WotC's intention, which we don't know, and probably never will. By the indications (that is, Wizards has avowed that the series is not canon), it would seem that George's interpretation holds more weight.
That doesn't mean, of course, that the authors of MoF didn't just take the idea/inspiration from the DD books. That also doesn't entail, necessarily, that the DD books are canon. Doppelgangers replacing lords and ladies of import are hardly rare occurances (Baldur's Gate, anyone?) a fact that Volo no doubt "knew" when he "wrote" the novellettes.
Alternate reasons to explain an otherwise incredible coincidence:
- Perhaps Volo based it on a story he had heard (as Elaine has suggested)
- Perhaps Volo just entirely guessed, and happened to get it right (without realizing it)
-Maybe, before they did it, whatever sinister forces are behind the impersonation of Piergeiron's wife read Volo's novellette and thought to themselves, "What a great idea -- and no one would ever believe this woolhead that it ACTUALLY happened. Brilliant!"
Who knows?
I myself am more inclined to read the situation as not implying that the DD books are canon, for the reasons above, and knowing Volo's tendencies toward exaggeration, inflation, or outright inaccuracy. Frankly, even if he had come by the truth and known that this was a real event, he likely would have missed it entirely.
I think this is actually rather clever on Wizards' part, and brings out amazingly good speculation.
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 26 Apr 2006 19:52:25 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2006 : 19:24:15
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| I just want to thank our FR authors that are part of the community that have taken time out to alalyse and chime in on this situation. No matter how much we manage to get confused over issues like this, its great to know that we have some authors that are so willing to jump into this and provide us some great opinions . . . |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2006 : 22:22:18
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Well I'll admit when I'm wrong. :)
Scott,
Sorry for the confusion. The reference in the Monsters of Faerun book does not make the Double Diamond Triangle Saga canon (it is not yet 1377 DR in the FR timeline). It is erroneous in assuming that the events already happened when they haven't. However, it was the best example the Monsters of Faerun author had for Greater Doppelgangers at the time.
Good Gaming!
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2006 : 23:31:16
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| I agree with Erik and Elaine's intrepretations of things. There are probably a large number of "grains of truth" throughout the DD saga, but the entire thing cannot be taken as canon fact. Good tall tales always contain elements of truth, or they are not believable. Elements of the DD saga could certainly be expanded on in supplements and novels. I wouldn't quote DD directly as a factual source, but one could use some of the ideas as inspirations or rumors for real events. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2006 : 02:10:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Sam from WotC
However, it was the best example the Monsters of Faerun author had for Greater Doppelgangers at the time.
Well, that explains the bit I posted above about James Wyatt using the details from FR sources (and possibly the DD books) as a reference for the "In the Realms" entry for the doppelganger. So while they've likely been used to support the creature entry, they aren't canonising the event itself.
Fair enough. It's nice to have some official confirmation on this...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2006 : 02:11:48
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quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
I agree with Erik and Elaine's intrepretations of things. There are probably a large number of "grains of truth" throughout the DD saga, but the entire thing cannot be taken as canon fact. Good tall tales always contain elements of truth, or they are not believable. Elements of the DD saga could certainly be expanded on in supplements and novels. I wouldn't quote DD directly as a factual source, but one could use some of the ideas as inspirations or rumors for real events.
As I said before... that's a perspective I can lean towards for this. And given the official confirmation now... it's all the more likely to be the case. Past the date of the events portrayed of course -- during or post 1377 DR -- which can then suggest some level of canon for events depicted in the DD novelettes should either Ed or any other designers involved in a future FR sourcebook seek out some details in the Double Diamond book as a Realmslore reference to be expanded upon.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2006 : 16:51:51
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quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
I've always considered them canon (not that my opinion has any influence on whether or not they actually are).
I must of missed the memo too. Then again we never really used any of it in our games. |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
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love to all,
THO
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Double Diamond Novellettes
Thanks for your thoughts too, Erik. It's certainly interesting to hear views and suggestions on this matter.