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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Apr 2006 : 02:19:55
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I noticed that there were a few threads that dealt with the novel in part or peripherally, but since I just read the whole darn thing and wanted to post some thoughts, I decided a full fledged thread about the whole thing may indeed be warrented (and hey, its here for when the paperback comes out).
The first thing that I have to say is that anytime there is a lot of passion about a given artists work, and a lot of buzz one way or the other, sometimes it becomes hard to objectively watch, listen too, or read a given work, or to just enjoy it for what it is. I had the same problem watching Phantom Menace, and it took a while for me to actually sift through what I was expecting, and what I had heard other people say, before I really digested it.
With that long winded and most likely completly superfluous introduction out of the way, let me just say that I really enjoyed this book. After being disappointed with the second and third book of the Hunter's Blades trilogy, I went into this with a bit of a chip on my shoulder, almost a "this had better be good" attitude. It was good. I'm not saying its RAS' best, or that its one of my favorite Realms novels, but it was a good solid entertaining read.
The Good Stuff
I like the banter between Jarlaxle and Entrerei. It was fun in this, as it shot from almost friendly to dangerously threatening. I have been waiting for one of them to almost loose it, given their personalities, for a while, and they nearly do go at it near the end, which is great.
I am kind of glad that RAS set this in Vaasa and Damara, because he is comfortable there, and he knows the territory. I think sometimes he gets lost in the Realmslore of other regions of the Realms, especially considering that he originally intentionally picked an undeveloped wilderness region to set his books so he didn't step on any toes/contradict any canon. Unfortunately, he stayed a bit from that later on, but here, he seems to be comfortable with the region and at least its recent history.
I liked Practus, if only because it was nice to see a dwarven cleric not named Muffinhead. Nicer still to actually see clerical magic cure somethings in a RAS book, though he seems to multiply recovery times by a factor of 100. I nearly threw Athrogate into the pile of "funny dwarves" that I have come to loathe, but fact that Entrerei was actually a little intimidated by the psycho helped a lot. Plus, as much as I hate dwarves being used as comic relief, I absolutely lived the line when Knellect complains about the company that the other Citadel wizard kept, and Athrogate chimes in with, "that would be me." The other thing that made the little guy's idiotic quirks bearable was the fact that, unlike Drizzt or Cadderly, who always act like such quirks are endearing, Entrerei is increasingly infuriated by the dwarf's rhyming. Its funny how a character's reaction to a quirk can change how you perceive the quirk, and it reminds me of how I actually liked the Drizzt short story in Realms of Elves a bit better because Inovindil was actually questioning some of Drizzt's overly philosophical musings.
One of the things that I have missed since the Dark Elf trilogy in RAS' works is the complexity of the plot. In the Dark Elf trilogy, there are wheels within wheels, and very little is going to unfold as it is planned by this or that character. It gave us a very complex picture of the drow, and it showed that RAS is actually pretty good at juggling plot points and schemes in his stories. Now that we are dealing with a more devious mind (Jarlaxle) it seems that we are inded starting to see some wheels spinning again. I like that.
I liked the cameos of some of the colorful NPCs from the Bloodstone Lands sourcebook of yore, such as Weird Wigham and that halfling adventuring company. I loved that sourcebook, so it was fun to see the characters used in the context of the literary Realms.
The female characters are much more interesting in this book that some of RAS' recent (and not so recent) female characters. I think that part of the interest may come from the idea that we aren't constantly told how pure and lovable and wise and good, etc. the women are in this story. We are presented the characters, and we can make our own decicions on what they are like.
Overall, we got to see Entrerei develop as a character (thanks to Idallis's magic flute of Prozac, or whatever you want to call it), Jarlaxle start to scheme again, and interesting ad hoc adventureing group, and actually some interesting fight scenes. Pretty good list of pros, I would have to say.
Oh, and we all know that Entrerei has rogue skills, so its nice to actually see him use them in this novel.
The Bad Stuff
Sometimes I don't know where RAS gets his ideas from, and they just don't click, or maybe my mind just doesn't follow the logic. Gnoll mummies? Why? If we had some explanation that Vaasan Gnolls mummify their dead or something maybe I would start to get it. I understand the castle creating construct like gargoyles over and over again, and I get summoning daemons (and hey, I like that he used that term over Yugoloth) over and over again, but how do you get a replenishing supply of gnoll mummies?
Sometimes RAS' magic items are a bit obtuse in the execution of their abilities. Crenshinibon was always one that I thought had a ton of powers that were kind of unrelated, and Zhengyi's books seem to have the same, "they can do anything they need to to progress the plot" quality to them.
Overall, not really a ton of stuff that registered as bad. But the words, "why gnoll mummies" will keep echoing in my head for a while.
The Rather Neutral
The dragon sisters are intruiging, but they are really underutilized in this book. I would have rather heard the dracolich speak for itself, instead of only hearing about it after Kimmuriel spoke with it in the phylactery.
Oh, and did I misread something, or did Calyie and Entrerei jump each other in the tap room? I may have to reread that . . .
Overall, a good, solid book, lots of potential for the sequel, and a pleasant surprise. Not a great book, but probably solidly in the second tier of RAS books, and in the upper half of Realms fiction. Unless you absolutely hate RAS I don't think it would be a mistake to read this one.
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Deverien Valandil
Seeker
73 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2006 : 04:26:43
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Oh, and did I misread something, or did Calyie and Entrerei jump each other in the tap room? I may have to reread that . . .
Hoo, don't get me started on that part. Frankly, I didn't see much chemistry at all between those two, and I was pretty dumbfounded when I read that. Realistically, I just can't see them shagging it out. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2006 : 07:28:34
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I honestly have no memories whatsoever of the love interest of Artemis and frankly thought he would end up much better with the Royal Family girl than Jaxarle.
However, I'm extremely interested in the notion that the end of the story could be Artemis becoming King of Bloodstone. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2006 : 11:09:32
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Oh, I'm seriously hoping that isn't the direction we are going, as that would completely screw with Book Two of the Year of Rogue Dragons.
In all honesty, as soon as I read about Calilye I thought she was the one that Entrerei would end up with, although, yes, the "jumping" scene did seem to happen rather abruptly. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 18:14:04
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Promise of the Witch King is a novel that I just re-read for the first time. I'm surprised by doing so since I didn't enjoy it that much the first time around. It was more enjoyable than the Hunter's Blade's trilogy but that wasn't particularly saying much. Now that I've read Road of the Patriarch, I decided to break out this book and look it over. Surprisingly, on a second read, it was much more enjoyable than I initially remembered it being.
Some minor spoilers may also be here for ROP as related to the Bloodstone plot as a warning.
The biggest benefit of this book was for me, the evocative nature of Bloodstone. R.A. Salvatore has actually done what I sheepishly (in my earlier time on the forum) said the books should be doing in "showing off" the Realms that were underdeveloped. I was being stupid back then but it was a major success here as Vaasa has since become one of my favorite adventuring locales.
Like City of Splendors, Bloodstone is brought beautifully alive. It's made distinct from the rest of the Realms since it's really a place that no sane man would want to live in. Icy frost half the year and swamp the rest of it. The place is littered with monsters despite the organized campaign of genocide being carried about by King Gareth. Though its touched upon in PotWK, its disconcerting to find that there's an entire town of Half-Orcs whom seem to be normal and gods fearing citizens yet the Paladin King is making a concentrated effort to annihilate the non-humans in the region.
It's a reminder that the people of the Realms do not live with the same morals that we do. It's a pity that Artemis isn't King here (yet) since it seems unnatural that a member of the Paladin class would rule over such a place so far removed from civilization and such ideals.
I also am going to eat my own words regarding character development not being too necessary for fantasy novels in regards to Jarlaxle and Artemis. The subtle realization that was hinted at in the Crystal Shard that Jarl HATES his life as leader of the mercenary band and longs for the freedom of an adventurer is brought to for here. Artemis also is never more entertaining than when he's constantly kveching about the poor conditions and ridiculous plots of Jarl.
You'd think Artemis was my mother for the way he constantly rips into the surroundings and the lack of suitable living quarters. Showing this new side to our anti-heroes is extremely enjoyable and why the book decidedly goes up in my estimation. The fact that he's still an impressive fighter and not in the least bit lowered in his skill or 'badass' level despite showing this off is interesting.
I will confess though that I'm honestly divided about how I felt about the villains. It's no secret that I feel villains are a major component of fantasy fiction. I feel that a book is measured not by the quality of the hero as much as the quality of his antagonist. You can have all the character development in the world but it's not nearly so fun unless you have villains that chew the scenery. Agree or disagree as you will.
We deal with Zhengyi's legacy here in this book but I wish we'd gone with a more "cliche" plot of resurrection Zhengyi because we never actually get to know much about the Lich King. I know Bloodstone Pass the modules but little about the Witch King himself. The Dracolich and Raiders of the Lost Ark palace at the start are fairly poor substitutes for a more overwhelming villain.
Then again, perhaps that is substituted by the presence of Lady Ellery and the Assassin's Guild head. Those two certainly added an interesting set of rivals to our heroes and it comes to the fore in the next book even as I was surprised at what happens to El here. You think she'd have been perfect for joining the Band of the Sellswords as opposed to becoming their enemy.
Calilye and Parssius are also an interesting pair even though I didn't feel the women were very well described. "mental images" can be taxing unless you have a frame of reference. Goldmoon, Drizzt, Tanis and others are easily distinguishable because they have distinct descriptions. Not so much with these two and I felt they became interchangable. An odd complaint but one that nevertheless bugged me. The revelation about their love affair was a nice bit of subtlety on R.A. Salvatore's part that pays off well in the Third Book.
Mariabonne was a character that's interesting to me because he seemed to practically scream Aragorn everytime the ranger came on the page. His appalling end actually amused me all the more for it. The poor fellow just wasn't playing in Artemis Entreri's league and it was all the more entertaining for me to read about ti because of such. I can't say I felt much sympathy for the mass murdering Goblin killer.
I will say one thing though, I can't take the idea of a sexy half-orc seriously. Arrayan became something of a joke for me despite her horrible torment due to this. I also kept wondering how "feeding on her lifeforce" worked. In game terms, would she be 1st level now or did she recover from that? How much life energy is needed to raise a Tower of Zhengyi?
The Dragon Sisters also were somewhat of a mixed bag for me. We know Jarlaxle and Artemis are working for them but so little about them and how the pair met. It would have been nice to learn more about them and what their real agenda was. I did love that Jarlaxle will have sex with anything so long as its female looking though.
8/10 |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 23:34:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
The Dragon Sisters also were somewhat of a mixed bag for me. We know Jarlaxle and Artemis are working for them but so little about them and how the pair met.
That question would be answered if you'd read the A&J story in Realms of Dragons.  |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2007 : 23:49:05
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Touche.
The Realms Short stories are the only thing I'm always touchy about. I've only bought one in my entire Realmslore history (Realms of Underdark)
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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yargarth
Seeker
USA
58 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2007 : 04:08:55
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| ROP was good untill the last few chapters. I felt like RA was forced to squeeze an entire book into like three chapters. It was painful to read. |
"You take a step, then another. That's the journey. But to take a step with your eyes open is not a journey at all, it's a remaking of your own mind."
-Orson Scott Card
Ender in Exile |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2007 : 19:54:52
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Well,I just finished reading this book yesterday. As always I am way behind reading the novels but that does not mean I would have no opinion on it! 
Now, I share the feelings of my fellow scribes here - a rather good book, in the upper ranking for realms books for me. I don't know much about the bloodstone or Zhengyi history so I cannot say anything about the gnoll mummies. However, I found it rather confusing that there was a chapter or two in the book were the group members were simply killed in short order.
Now as intriguing as the end might be, there is however the following question that I cannot find an anwer for:
From whom or where did get Jarlaxle the second obsidian steed?  (after taking the first one from the dead Mariebronne the Rover)
Ergdusch |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 16 Aug 2007 19:55:34 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2007 : 20:10:12
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>>From whom or where did get Jarlaxle the second obsidian steed? (after taking the first >>one from the dead Mariebronne the Rover)
That's the one big problem I have with Jarlaxle. He's running around with so many magic items, yet no explanation really for where he's getting them. Other than that, I like the guy.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 01:37:27
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
>>From whom or where did get Jarlaxle the second obsidian steed? (after taking the first >>one from the dead Mariebronne the Rover)
That's the one big problem I have with Jarlaxle. He's running around with so many magic items, yet no explanation really for where he's getting them. Other than that, I like the guy.
Yeah, I love the character, but he's also a "cheater" in the sense that he carries around a truckload of magical items, we don't know what they are, and he always seems to have the right item at the right moment.
And that's all an accepted part of the character. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 17 Aug 2007 01:38:11 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 02:03:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
>>From whom or where did get Jarlaxle the second obsidian steed? (after taking the first >>one from the dead Mariebronne the Rover)
That's the one big problem I have with Jarlaxle. He's running around with so many magic items, yet no explanation really for where he's getting them. Other than that, I like the guy.
Yeah, I love the character, but he's also a "cheater" in the sense that he carries around a truckload of magical items, we don't know what they are, and he always seems to have the right item at the right moment.
And that's all an accepted part of the character.
I have the explanation for this... Hammerspace!  |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2007 : 08:19:29
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In oter words - he just drew the second steed out of his hat?!? Very interesting....... Seems one of those thinks RAS simply does not care about - logical consitancy.
Also - it appears - the 3rd. Ed. never arrived in his novels. Drow elves still have red glowing eyes when using "heat sensoring" vision. What about darkvision?
*Sigh* now anyhow, thanks for your answers.
Ergdusch
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Lameth
Learned Scribe
Germany
196 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2007 : 19:51:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
Also - it appears - the 3rd. Ed. never arrived in his novels. Drow elves still have red glowing eyes when using "heat sensoring" vision. What about darkvision?
Ergdusch
These are drow mutants, that`s all *g* |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2007 : 19:20:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
Also - it appears - the 3rd. Ed. never arrived in his novels. Drow elves still have red glowing eyes when using "heat sensoring" vision. What about darkvision?
RAS is very well known for not following D&D "rules" and FR canon in his novels. For examples, the [dwarven] clerics in his novels doesn't seem to be able to heal even mild injuries and his portrayal of Alustriel/Dove. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 24 Aug 2007 19:20:59 |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2007 : 20:48:46
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Hehe. Not to mention dwarven Druids:)
But hey, who cares. Salvatore is the most successful author, and obviously is doing something right. A good portion of the people who read his stuff don't even know DnD rules from any edition. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2007 : 22:35:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
Hehe. Not to mention dwarven Druids:)
But hey, who cares. Salvatore is the most successful author, and obviously is doing something right. A good portion of the people who read his stuff don't even know DnD rules from any edition.
IMHO, good drow, dwarven druid, etc. were fine. However, sometimes he goes in some directions that are not acceptable under the FR framework, even if he's sucessful and a good writer he should have to follow the setting baseline to get the FR logo on the books. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 24 Aug 2007 22:36:09 |
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Pharaun Mizzrym
Acolyte
Canada
34 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2007 : 20:55:06
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| Thats the only FR book I've read in less than three days, one of my all time favourites. Jarlaxle and Artemis are so great together |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2007 : 21:17:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I have the explanation for this... Hammerspace!
The more pressing question is does that mean he operates in Hammer time? |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2008 : 01:06:44
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| What year does this novel take place in? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2008 : 01:28:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
What year does this novel take place in?
Definitely in the "past". I think around 1369 DR. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2008 : 07:43:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
What year does this novel take place in?
(You may peruse my personal RAS Realms timeline, in my sig, for quick reference in this matter.)
My best guess is that Promise of the Witch-King (POTWK) takes place in the summer through late autumn of the year 1368 DR. Here's how I determine that:
Servant of the Shard (SOTS) tells us that our dynamic duo went to the Snowflake Mountains to do a little ruination to their rock "as the summer was waning".
When RAS first wrote this novel as part of the "Paths of Darkness" ("POD") mini-series, the book was originally intended to take place right after The Spine of the World (TSOTW), in the summer of 1366. The death of Pasha Basadoni, described as having occurred in the late spring of 1365 in The Silent Blade, supposedly took place only a few months before SOTS. And the Morik-Rai'gy/Rai-gy/Rai-guy incident from the end of TSOTW was still fresh.
But when the decision was made to continue the adventures of Entreri and Jarlaxle, as well as to move the "The Hunter's Blades Trilogy" ("THBT") forward a few years in the Realms master timeline, apparently it was deemed appropriate to likewise move SOTS forward a year, so as to cause the "The Sellswords" mini-series to better fill the void between "POD" and "THBT".
The short story "That Curious Sword" ("TCSw") is explicitly dated 1367. In it, we are told that it has been only "a couple of months" since the destruction of the Shard, which was described in SOTS .
Put two and two together there, and I ascertain that SOTS probably took place in Summer 1367, and "TCSw" in Autumn 1367.
The short "Empty Joys" ("EJ") mentions the shade incident with Entreri as having taken place on one of the duo's last encounters. The text seems to imply that a good deal of time has transpired, in that Entreri and Jarlaxle appear to have undergone several other unspecified adventures. But those are the only time clues we're given here, and they are ambiguous.
The short story "Wickless in the Nether" ("WITN") is explicitly dated in 1368. We are told at the beginning that our duo is running through the streets of Heliogabalus during a torrential downpour. This would appear to indicate a Spring 1368 time setting (April showers? . . .).
This would also appear to set "EJ" some time between Autumn 1367 ("TCSw") and Spring 1368 ("WITN"). I have surmised a Winter late 1367 or Winter early 1368 chronological placement.
Promise of the Witch-King begins in the summer, with the soil of the Vaasan plain completely muddied from the previous rainy season. We are told that the duo have been working together in Damara, and specifically for the dragon sisters, for a matter of "months" now. This story continues through the end of autumn, on the eve of winter. Given "WITN"'s apparent Spring 1368 timing, I would venture to guess that POTWK should be dated Summer - Late autumn 1368.
And for bonus points, the novel Road of the Patriarch (ROTP) takes place in the winter. Since the duo's adventures take place over several tendays and in at least two different widely space lands, I am guessing that the book transpires over the course of a few months. Therefore, I have guessed a timing of Winter late 1368 - early 1369.
That's a timeline strictly based on the time clues within the works themselves. I do not know if there are other Realmslore references that might warrant an adjustment to the above, or not.
Hope this helps. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Promise of the Witch-King Discussion (Spoilers)
