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yanic
Acolyte
Jamaica
8 Posts |
 Posted - 05 May 2008 : 21:39:01
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This might be a wierd question but i love gnomes, (i have a couple gnome characters on wow myself) I just recently finish reading Hunters Blade trilogy and i like nanfoodles character alot, and i was wondering if they are other novels with gnome characters at the forefront like that, cause ive read quite a few FR books and it seems that gnomes are extinct almost, only kenders and dwarves exist.
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art is life and life is art |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 21:55:04
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| The Cloakmaster Cycle (the one and only SpellJammer story arc) features gnomes quite a bit. Two of the six books (Into the Void (2) and the Radiant Dragon (4)) feature some Realmslore. The series begins on Krynn (Dragonlance). |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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Edited by - Hawkins on 05 May 2008 21:56:32 |
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yanic
Acolyte
Jamaica
8 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 22:33:18
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| thanks alot for the reply, ill see if i can get a copy of the cloakmaster cycle |
art is life and life is art |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 01:03:02
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Gnomes are the secret masters of the world.
The novels aren't statistically representative or typical of Faerūn, but of what the books department thought would make money.
Have a look at Races of Faerūn and "Hin Nobody Knows" in DRAGON #269 to get more of a handle on what Realms gnomes are like.
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 01:24:27
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There was a Harpers novel titled *Soldiers of Ice* penned by, I think, David Cook. The plot involves a gnomish community.
But the Sage's correct in that portrayals of gnomes vary greatly. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 01:30:11
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quote:
Originally posted by yanic
This might be a wierd question but i love gnomes, (i have a couple gnome characters on wow myself) I just recently finish reading Hunters Blade trilogy and i like nanfoodles character alot, and i was wondering if they are other novels with gnome characters at the forefront like that, cause ive read quite a few FR books and it seems that gnomes are extinct almost, only kenders and dwarves exist.
Actually, there is only one kender in the Realms, and the only FR novel to feature him did so before he came to the Realms.
As I recall, there were some gnomes in the book Soldiers of Ice, which is one of the Harpers books. I don't recall particularly enjoying the book, but I know others have loved it, and it has been many years since I read it.
There was a gnome as a supporting character in the novel Thornhold.
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 06 May 2008 01:31:00 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 01:32:05
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
The Cloakmaster Cycle (the one and only SpellJammer story arc) features gnomes quite a bit. Two of the six books (Into the Void (2) and the Radiant Dragon (4)) feature some Realmslore. The series begins on Krynn (Dragonlance).
While this is true, as I recall, most of the gnomes were Krynnish tinker gnomes. And tinker gnomes and gnomes of the Realms are two totally separate beasts. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 02:06:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Actually, there is only one kender in the Realms, and the only FR novel to feature him did so before he came to the Realms.
Aye, Emilo Haversack, from Tymora's Luck.
I do wonder how many scribes noticed the kender's reference in Grand History of the Realms. I know I was ecstatic. Yes, Emilo Haversack's antics in the novel are noted in the 1368 DR entry on pg. 148.
Plus, we got another reference for Sigil too!  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 02:13:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
The Cloakmaster Cycle (the one and only SpellJammer story arc) features gnomes quite a bit. Two of the six books (Into the Void (2) and the Radiant Dragon (4)) feature some Realmslore. The series begins on Krynn (Dragonlance).
While this is true, as I recall, most of the gnomes were Krynnish tinker gnomes. And tinker gnomes and gnomes of the Realms are two totally separate beasts.
Well, the gnomes of Lantan were originally tinker-like. That paricular racial aspect of the gnomes was the result of TSR bringing the concept of the tinker gnomes into the Realms, and also largely because Gond appeared (in the form of a gnome) on the island during the Time of Troubles.
As for Krynnish gnomes, DRAGONLANCE has three types of gnomes: tinker, mad/thinker, and wild gnomes.
The idea, really, behind "thinker" gnomes goes back to at least Dragonlance Adventures. Mad gnomes, as they were originally known, were presented as gnomes that came from other worlds who made things that worked when they tinkered. DLA was set up in a way that you could import characters from other settings.
The next phase of this evolution would be with Taladas. The tinker/thinker distinction really finds its roots there with the minoi and gnomoi. The interesting thing is that the thinkers were more prominent.
The SAGA gaming materials really brought thinker gnomes into the limelight. Here's where the Curse of Reorx was introduced.
Then with the DLCS, the association between mad gnomes and thinker gnomes is made. I'm sure that some people will say this is a retcon. I prefer to think that they were getting back to the basics of the setting, going back to the mad gnomes.
So that's the basic evolution of thinker gnomes.
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 08:29:42
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On a side note: there is a gnome in the computer game 'Icewind Dale 2' that I liked a lot back when I played the game. He was a confused little fellow with some kind of airship. I think his name was Oswald Fiddlebender or some such.
Whatever that inforamtion is worth to you - now you have it.
Ergdusch |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 16:02:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
On a side note: there is a gnome in the computer game 'Icewind Dale 2' that I liked a lot back when I played the game. He was a confused little fellow with some kind of airship. I think his name was Oswald Fiddlebender or some such.
I remember him. Been a long time since I played the IWD games, but I think that gnome might have been in the first game, too.
There's an important gnome character in Temple Hill. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 06 May 2008 16:05:49 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 17:28:05
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| Soldiers of Ice would be the best choice. There is also a short story by Cunningham (in Realms of Mystery I believe?)that has gnomes as an important part if the story. |
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yanic
Acolyte
Jamaica
8 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 17:43:48
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| Wow thanks alot for that wealth of information, so tell me the gnomes in faerun are they the techie gnomes that build stuff like what nanfoodle built for the dwarves and are they the ones deeply engrossed in alchemy? |
art is life and life is art |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 18:01:54
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Gnomes are Monsters! they are not a PC race, they are Monsters!
Get out of my head! seriously, if Gnomes are a NPC race, I think the people who made that executive desicion need to hang themselves by a pick. |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 18:44:32
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It took me a few moments to figure out how someone hangs themselves with a pick, Aravine.  Vivid image!
I've enjoyed playing gnomes, although, in general, only in 3rd edition. (Could we be gnomes in 1e or 2e?) I'm also the only person with whom I've gamed to play a gnome PC, so I wasn't terribly shocked they're now NPCs in 4e. Surprised, yeah, but not shocked. 
Yanic, Sage's post above explains a bit of the difference between the tinker gnomes and mad gnomes. Faerunian nomes, unless Krynnish visitors, are akin to the mad/thinker gnomes portrayed in Krynn. Think gnomes on sedatives....
May I ask, Sage, who are the wild gnomes? They sound like fun. lol. |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 18:45:35
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One of the characters I had the most fun writing in BLACKSTAFF TOWER was a gnome priest of Baravar Cloakshadow (and old pal of Khelben Arunsun, to give you an idea of his age). So you know there's one novel to come with a gnome in it (alas, only for one chapter, even if he does dominate said chapter).
SES |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 20:01:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
[br
Actually, there is only one kender in the Realms, and the only FR novel to feature him did so before he came to the Realms.
Oh gods, what do you think would happen if more Kender found their way to Faerun in great numbers? It would be the mother of all RSEs. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 20:06:14
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quote:
Originally posted by yanic
Wow thanks alot for that wealth of information, so tell me the gnomes in faerun are they the techie gnomes that build stuff like what nanfoodle built for the dwarves and are they the ones deeply engrossed in alchemy?
No. Some of the Forgotten Folk lean towards engineering, but they're far from Krynn's comic caricatures. |
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Yoshi_Kong
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 00:22:12
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| They have deep gnomes in the Dark Elf Trilogy. I think Regis is a gnome too. |
Elminster would get pwned by Gromph. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 00:58:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Soldiers of Ice would be the best choice. There is also a short story by Cunningham (in Realms of Mystery I believe?)that has gnomes as an important part if the story.
Bentley and Galana Mirrorshade, at the Friendly Arm Inn. I'll never forget them--you travel to that inn near the beginning of the first Baldur's Gate CRPG. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 01:00:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Yoshi_Kong
I think Regis is a gnome too.
He's a halfling. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 01:15:12
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quote:
Originally posted by yanic
Wow thanks alot for that wealth of information, so tell me the gnomes in faerun are they the techie gnomes that build stuff like what nanfoodle built for the dwarves and are they the ones deeply engrossed in alchemy?
No. As I said earlier, the decisions made by TSR effectively allowed some brief cross-over between the racial traits of the Krynnish tinker gnomes and the gnomes of Lantan. But that's been slowly phased out of the material. The gnomes of Lantan have returned to a more stable crop of gnomish inventors who are mostly quite intuitive and capable of innovative technogical design on their own as members of Gond's faithful.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 01:17:15
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quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
May I ask, Sage, who are the wild gnomes? They sound like fun. lol.
They're sort of a rustic off-shoot of the gnome race who are botanists. They're found in the 3e Spectre of Sorrows adventure.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 04:58:40
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| #291? You want #269, man. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 06:24:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
I believe that a novel in the Realms of Mysteries deals with gnomes who run the Friendly Arm Inn.
"Speaking with the Dead" -- originally printed in Realms of Mystery and included in The Best of Elaine Cunningham.
And "Stolen Dreams" as well -- originally printed in DRAGON #259 and also included in The Best of Elaine Cunningham. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 07 May 2008 06:25:21 |
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Afetbinttuzani
Senior Scribe
Canada
434 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 13:54:58
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Actually, there is only one kender in the Realms, and the only FR novel to feature him did so before he came to the Realms.
Oh gods, what do you think would happen if more Kender found their way to Faerun in great numbers? It would be the mother of all RSEs.
I'm with you there, Khorne. A frightening thought I think Kender punting would inevitably become a popular sport in the Realms.
Afet |
Afet bint Tuzanķ
"As the good Archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself."
- Danilo Thann in Elfsong by Elaine Cunningham |
Edited by - Afetbinttuzani on 07 May 2008 14:57:21 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 15:46:47
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
I believe that a novel in the Realms of Mysteries deals with gnomes who run the Friendly Arm Inn.
"Speaking with the Dead" -- originally printed in Realms of Mystery and included in The Best of Elaine Cunningham.
And "Stolen Dreams" as well -- originally printed in DRAGON #259 and also included in The Best of Elaine Cunningham.
I've always liked these stories. I have also always liked the approach of telling the same story from different perspectives. Though I've only read a few stories where that happened... And my fave example is a non-Realms one: when Milamber destroys the Imperial Games. In the Riftwar Saga, we see it from his perspective. In the Empire trilogy, we see it from the perspective of one of the frightened nobles who had to flee for her life. |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 07 May 2008 15:49:47 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 18:44:15
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In my tabletop campaign, one of my NPCs--a bard--frontlines a band called "Tossing Gnomes." With Slash the dwarf berserker on lute, Pierce the vampire on yarting, and Bludgeon the bugbear on drums.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Gnomes are the secret masters of the world.
True. A friend of mine thinks halflings are the master race, but you and I know differently, Sage.
Might this be why they've become NPC creatures--because making them PCs would unlock their hitherto hidden secrets and truly unbalance the party?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2008 : 00:00:41
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| Which isn't Realmslore, and could mislead someone without a clear idea of what Realms gnomes are like. |
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Gnomes
