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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Apr 2006 : 03:55:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
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Originally posted by Shadovar
Silverymoon is already old enough and like Myth Drannor must take its place in the annals of history, for her fall is needed for the greater good of the future or her future.
How is the greater good served by the fall of a bastion of good? 
For the greater good of the future or her future, yes. The races of the light and the people of Silverymoon need a rude awakening to shake them up to the true threat posed to them, to remove the veil of impregnability and complacency from the eyes of the people of the Silver Marches and Silverymoon. Also, for the orcs and Obould's legacy would be considered a great threat in the future and since no one is willing to go erase them from existence, the fall of Silverymoon would remind the future generations of their predecessors failure and complacency that had led to their defeat and the city fall, hence these future generations of the races of the light will learn from their forebears' mistakes and take more proactive measures to defeat and destroy the orcs. Sometimes, harsh measures must be taken to ensure the future of the greater good.
Seeing Nesmé wiped out, Mithril Hall temporarily closed off, and a orc kingdom springing up isn't enough of a rude awakening?
And why do you say no one is willing to take on the orcs? Taking on a numerically superior, heavily entrenched enemy is not the best way to win battles -- but it is a very good way to send a lot of your own soldiers to a quick death.
Taking down Obould's forces is going to take either an incredible amount of manpower (likely more than can be found in the Silver Marches!), or some very careful manuevering over a long period of time.
Besides, it's not like this tale is told. At some point, RAS will come back to it, and we will likely see Obould's fall then. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2006 : 23:30:15
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In my research trying to find out about what the heck happened to old King Graul of the Ice Mountain orcs, I did run across a passage about Obould in Volo's Guide to the North. According to this passage, Obould had evil human wizards and illithids as allies, though these could just be "Volo rumors" and these allies have never specifically been mentioned in any novels either, though his allies among Frost Giants, Trolls, and Drow shows that he must be more diplomatic than most orcs, even before the ritual that the priests of Grummsh performed on him.
It also mentions that Obould was always very careful to make sure his shamans were happy with him, and threw huge feasts for his orcs on orc deity holy days, at least while he was ruling from the Citadel of Many Arrows.
Oh, and he is suppose to be bald. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2006 : 23:36:00
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
In my research trying to find out about what the heck happened to old King Graul of the Ice Mountain orcs, I did run across a passage about Obould in Volo's Guide to the North. According to this passage, Obould had evil human wizards and illithids as allies, though these could just be "Volo rumors" and these allies have never specifically been mentioned in any novels either, though his allies among Frost Giants, Trolls, and Drow shows that he must be more diplomatic than most orcs, even before the ritual that the priests of Grummsh performed on him.
It seems he has a lot of allies then that have never been mentioned in the tales. :( Humans, illithids, perytons, and others. Sigh. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2006 : 23:43:06
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| Yeah, actually, if they had all been mentioned, it wouldn't be hard to see why he is a threat to Silverymoon and the Silver Marches . . . orcs, trolls, frost giants, human wizards, perytons, and illithids . . . oh my. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2006 : 23:51:31
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Yeah, actually, if they had all been mentioned, it wouldn't be hard to see why he is a threat to Silverymoon and the Silver Marches . . . orcs, trolls, frost giants, human wizards, perytons, and illithids . . . oh my.
Grin. The Oh My made me laugh. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2006 : 02:00:10
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Yeah, actually, if they had all been mentioned, it wouldn't be hard to see why he is a threat to Silverymoon and the Silver Marches . . . orcs, trolls, frost giants, human wizards, perytons, and illithids . . . oh my.
Hmm...interesting, the fact that King Obould had the assistance of such unique creatures can be a great advantage to his melee standard armies and a edge over the more conventional armies of Silverymoon.
Orcs as melee fighters, trolls as melee shock troops, giants as artillery units, illithids on standby as anti-spellcaster units and intelligence officers and providing extra recruits and human renegade wizards all the more dangerous. What he lack is beholders for serious heavy support role and anti-magic support. If King Obould can coordinate the various elements of his formidable military into a cohesive military force, the Army of Many-Arrows would rival the military force gathered by the phaerimm against Evereska. For Silverymoon's military forces, they may have the superior armor, weapon, magic advantage with mythal and Alustriel but can't help feeling that Silverymoon's forces are a bit outgunned by King Obould's allied army. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2006 : 03:08:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
[quote]
For Silverymoon's military forces, they may have the superior armor, weapon, magic advantage with mythal and Alustriel but can't help feeling that Silverymoon's forces are a bit outgunned by King Obould's allied army.
where does it state this??? according to the trilogy, nothing pertaining to outgunned was even stated. It seemed to me, more political than anything else. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2006 : 03:12:48
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Ah . . . to keep throwing fuel on the fire . . . according to the link that Sage kindly provided me, Obould may not still have the illithid support he once had (according to the link to what Tom Costa wrote, the illithids specifically were allied to Obould I), but he might be attracting Monks of the Long Death . . .
Again, not mentioned as of yet in any novels. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2006 : 03:26:23
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| Again, folks, the Obould of today is not the Obould from back in the day. There have been many Oboulds. The current one is just the latest in a long line. The first Obould may have enjoyed the support of perytons and illithids and other nastybads, but thus far, we've not seen any of these critters paying the current Obould the slightest bit of attention. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2006 : 03:42:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Again, folks, the Obould of today is not the Obould from back in the day. There have been many Oboulds. The current one is just the latest in a long line. The first Obould may have enjoyed the support of perytons and illithids and other nastybads, but thus far, we've not seen any of these critters paying the current Obould the slightest bit of attention.
Which is why I posted the URL for Tom's article on Many Arrows in the other scroll.
The illithid connection is interesting though. They're usually not the type of "allies" one can just abandon easily, unless of course they would wish it so. And while the flayers may not have an *active* interest in the doings of the current Obould and his plans... it's entirely possible that they may, at the very least, have maintained some measure of contact and/or interest from their past connection, with the events of Many Arrows in case the actions of Obould and his orc horde would ever present them with an opportunity.
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Edited by - The Sage on 27 Apr 2006 03:43:57 |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2006 : 12:04:25
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Hmm...that is the problem with orcs, they simply don't label numbers to the royal heirs carrying the same name such as in the case of Azoun 1, 2, 3, 4. At least that might be easy to distinguish, this is simply another sign that orcs don't know mathematics or they simply want to keep up the mystery and legend but this won't help them much in the long run.
If the Illithids did not appear in the Hunter Blades Trilogy, I suspect the prime reason was that they were not willing to fight dwarves given their experience with rebel duergar who simply outgrew their psionic grasp so it pays to learn from the past. But the Illithids are sure to join the Army of Many Arrows in the campaign against the Silver Marches especially with a confident wise leader at the front and well updated intelligence reports on the Silver Marches Confederate forces, it is simply too attractive to throw away the offer to the illithids.
I can think of a many reasons why the illithids wanna join the war but there are simply three simple prime reasons they can't resist this new venture.
1) If the Army's crusade is successful, the Illithids can demand their share of their loot and slaves. Loot in terms of magic, gold and other useful items would enhance their magical fighting power. Slaves in the bountiful would be too irresistable for the Silvaerens would serve as delicious dinner, slave workers and gladiators especially with so many intelligent people around. Lastly, more hosts to boost the illithid race.
2) Their long desire to conquer the surface world.
3) Raw materials that cannot be acquired from the underdark such as certain rare spell components.
But the illithids serving in Obould's force would be Obould's main wild card because of the Illithids' notorious psionic abilities and shockwave attack but they can be a weak link in Obould's army whereby there may be elements in Obould's army who would pay a hundred gold just to get the chance to beat up an illithid officer they don't like or if the Silvaerens are wise enough, they can pay a cabal of necromancers and techsmiths to assemble an army of Undead and Mindless fighting constructs which are virtually immune to the illithid influence to serve as anti-illithid units as well as heavy support units. Removal of the illithid units during the inital fighting would remove Obould's truimph card and weaken the enemy force by a fair chance, allowing the defenders' spellcasters and fighters to concentrate better on the enemy for it is pretty well known what an illithid's shock attack can do the front lines and wizards, and if it happens, the Silvaeren army may be decimated.
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We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2006 : 07:27:40
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I have a few questions related to this topic. They may have been discussed elsewhere, but my search turned up nothing, so if they have I do apologize.
Have there been any politcal maps created in Dragon, Dungeon or other source material (or even by memebers here) that show the extent of Obould's control?
His desire to establish an Orc kingdom is ambitious, but to do so would require an actual change in FR Orc culture. Learning the ways of trade and commerce of the overland races would be different from the styles of trade and business done in places they are familiar with (say the underdark, etc) would it not? Wouldn't this aslo pose a distinct opportunity for groups like the Zhentarim or the Iron Throne to come in as 'advisors' to helping Obould teach his people and set up trade (increasing their own influence in the region in the process)? |
Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2006 : 10:03:05
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quote:
Have there been any politcal maps created in Dragon, Dungeon or other source material (or even by memebers here) that show the extent of Obould's control?
Not sure, but it is believed that almost all the orc hordes of the Spine of the World are under his mob control.
quote:
His desire to establish an Orc kingdom is ambitious, but to do so would require an actual change in FR Orc culture. Learning the ways of trade and commerce of the overland races would be different from the styles of trade and business done in places they are familiar with (say the underdark, etc) would it not? Wouldn't this aslo pose a distinct opportunity for groups like the Zhentarim or the Iron Throne to come in as 'advisors' to helping Obould teach his people and set up trade (increasing their own influence in the region in the process)?
First, the orcs must have something worthy to trade first, I doubt iron ore and metal ore would sell much unless in massive quantities at a price better than the already established compeititors, even so metal ore are mined by some kingdoms privately. The orcs don't have much magical items to trade either as not all of them are magicians and they lack the vital raw materials to make useful marketable products that can be sold into the market. Also, there isn't enough orcs that are worth the salt of a group of master craftsmen.
Secondly, Obould know better than to allow evil groups like the Zhents to come in to teach them how to trade and set up a economy as the evil groups may attempt to manipulate or even threaten the orcs through their own orcish economy if the orcs grow too dependent on these evil groups for economic advice. I am certain Obould is smart enough to know how to manage an economy, but orcs don't make good traders nor economists, for they are more interested in when's the next fight coming than think about gold. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2006 : 11:09:26
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quote:
Obould know better than to allow evil groups like the Zhents to come in to teach them how to trade and set up a economy as the evil groups may attempt to manipulate or even threaten the orcs through their own orcish economy if the orcs grow too dependent on these evil groups for economic advice. I am certain Obould is smart enough to know how to manage an economy, but orcs don't make good traders nor economists, for they are more interested in when's the next fight coming than think about gold.
Right, this is my point. You see Obould can't do it all himself. He needs help to change the Orc culture. And I would argue that he is smart enough to know this. He needs craftsman to teach the orc craftmanship or other skills (orc farmers, skinners, fisherfolk, smiths, whatever) so that they can produce a viable economy.
Imagine Orc's becoming skilled as hunters and or livestock handlers. With overland control and taming of some forest regions, they could trade common overland meats with the other races of the Underdark (which might view these as a rare delicacy)
Anyway, I am just speculating, but without help, once Obould is gone (and without an equally strong heir whom would also share Obould's vision), everything will fall back to feudalistic in-fighting.
So where could he turn? Doubtful that anyone in the region would help. I doubt that the drow or dureagar would be willing. But I could see an alliance with some of the larger outside organizations that have been seeking to gain influnce in the region. Sure, Obould would never 'trust' them, but he did not trust any of his recent allies either. |
Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2006 : 11:24:43
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Correct but Obould is more inclined to have slave labour working for his economy than orcs, for orcs would not stand for such roles other than roles in battle. I think he is more likely to get slave labor through capturing slaves and forcing them to work. He can turn to the Shadovar or the Zhents(Zhents have plenty of loopholes and not reliable), but the Shadovar are eager for vengeance against those who will deny their heritage and their right, so I expect the Shadovar would pinch their noses and negotiate terms with Obould for some purpose that will ultimately benefit the Shadovar. I believe Obould see the Shadovar as reliable and trustworthy allies(at least what the Shadovar want Obould to see them as), for Shadovar aid can really benefit Obould's forces greatly against the Silver Marches.
Orcs to me are not willing to stoop to doing crafting and farming etc, they believe they are born for battle and die in battle as their religion preaches, so doing such work is quite an insult to them. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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King Obould situation: Military Analysis thread
