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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
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Lady Morbannaon
Acolyte
United Kingdom
42 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Aug 2006 : 23:54:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
Well met
That's the fellow! Thank ye, Lady Morbannaon 
Well met to you too,
Its not a problem, glad I could help  |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2006 : 06:21:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Morbannaon
I’ve just finished reading the book, and I think it’s a brilliant addition, and I send congratulations to both Eric and Eytan (Well done guys you should be really pleased with the finished product).
My only question about the book is when the 'Dracorage Mythal' was destroyed for once and for all (pg 10) was the ancient citadel destroyed as well? I know it’s a very small part of the whole book but its really bugging me I hope one of you lot can help answer it for me!
It's a reasonable question, but I think Richard (Lee Byers) could answer that more easily. I don't personally recall the trilogy mentioning much about what happened after. It's possible that the ruins of the site might be used in a future novel or supplement. You might want to ask this in Richard's thread. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2006 : 23:55:47
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| That certainly whittles down my material for the web enhancement (thankfully, that's a good thing because I have way too much). |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Arthedain
Acolyte
16 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 11:59:03
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I bought Dragons of Faerun 2 weeks ago, but because of real life constraints I haven't been able to read through it yet. However, I would like to make some remarks since Mr. Boyd and Mr. Burnstone (sorry, couldn't resist myself ;) ) has asked for feedback from us fans.
My first impression after skimming through the book was "hmm, nice. I could use that. Ah, I knew it, excellent! Wow, those maps look *great*". Very positive in other words.
Last night I started reading on the Cult of the Dragon section, and here are at least a few, more detailed, comments.
The Good
- The cover is awe-inspiring. I really like the cover of the Draconomicon, but this just screams "I'm dangerous" to me :). Several other posters have commented on the attire (or lack of) of the female on the back. Something that struck me was that it looks like all of the men in the picture are on fire, while the lone female is yet unharmed. Ah, well...
- The maps of Chessenta and Unther looked really great. The absence of green and blue gives them a scarier look. I can't really put it in words, but I just got this feeling like watching some dark, sombre movie about a land where evil rules and the need for heroes is dire.
- The dragons that were statted in the book, at least for me, made sense. They were somehow more unique than the others. I liked the way you just said "use these stats from Draconomicon, add this here template, and swap out that spell" for them. Saved room for the Realmslore. Especially I thought it was refreshing to see the comment on "The Minstrel Wyrm" were the DM should replace some spells with bard spells. It just showed good sense from whoever wrote it to stick with the basic idea of "what kind of dragon is this particular dragon", instead of sticking strictly to the rules.
- The summary of dragons from Ed Greenwood's "Wyrms of the North"-articles was a fine touch. I've never read the originals, but it is definately something I can use for inspiration.
- The historic summary in the CotD-section was really good. I remember reading the equivalent section in the 2nd edition book on the Cult, and I felt it covered the main parts of the story. And with regards to layout: I liked the way the two prophecies, or interpretations if you will, were placed on the opposite side of each other. No need to flip back and forth - just right there, "in your face". Small thing, but I thought it was kind of cool (sue me, I'm a geek :) ).
- The update to the Wearer of Purple PrC. Thanks! I remember creating a Wiz/WoP for my own campaign, and couldn't for the life of me understand why the class lacked concentration and spellcraft as class skills. I was happy to see the sidebar, and must admit that when I opened the book I didn't think of it/expect it.
- Alasklerbanbastos... best ...dragon ... name...ever. Can't remember if I've seen the name before, but still. Wow! :) It just rolls of the tongue :D.
The Bad
- In the section on The Cult of the Dragon there are several NPC's mentioned that have levels in non-spellcasting classes *and* Wearer of Purple? How is that possible? Isn't one of the requirements that they have to be able to cast one necromantic spell? I guess one can always say that those with levels in non-spellcasting classes have some other special non-standard ability that makes them eligible for the PrC, but my impression has always been that the highest ranking leaders were spellcasters. From an in-game point of view I can see it makes sense ("Only those who are worthy of bearing the purple robes are fit to lead."), but still it seems strange. [BTW: I can see that this is sort of opposite what I said earlier on about the spells for the Minstrel Wyrm]
- Algashon Nathaire: I was a bit surprised the see him mentioned as a mystic theurge. After looking it up in the Cult of the Dragon 2nd ed accessory it said something like "a minor mage who turned to the worship of Bane." (dual-classing I guess, in 2nd ed rules terms). The rules part aside, I guess I just would have expected him to be called "a dreadmaster of Bane". Now, I realize I'm getting hung up on minutiae here, but the biggest problem with Algashon is that his stats (given just a few pages later) in no way reflect what was written. No levels as wizard, no levels as MT, no levels as Dreadmaster, just cleric and divine disciple :|.
The Indifferent (or The Ugly, if you prefer that :) )
- Minor typo I noticed: The first time Shargrailar is mentioned in the CotD-section, he(?) is named Shargrailer. And, as a side note, why can't we come up with something a little more creative than "the dark"? I use these things myself, but they are just such clichés :D.
That's all I can think of now =). Bottom line: Two thumbs up, gentlemen! I'm looking forward to my next opportunity to read more, and not least use it in my present, and future campaigns. |
Edited by - Arthedain on 30 Aug 2006 18:53:23 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 12:12:26
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| You do know that Eds Wyrms of the North articles were updated by WOtC and can still be found in the article archives over there? |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 12:23:48
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| There seems to be an inconsistency in the CotD section of DoF in the history of the CotD it says that Algashon is a Mystic theurge however when hes stated up later in the chapter hes Cleric 25/Divine Discple 5 |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Arthedain
Acolyte
16 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 12:55:12
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Jorkens: Actually, when you mention it, I think I might have seen one or two of them years ago. Perhaps I should go dig in the archives :).
Thanks for the tip! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 19:53:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
There seems to be an inconsistency in the CotD section of DoF in the history of the CotD it says that Algashon is a Mystic theurge however when hes stated up later in the chapter hes Cleric 25/Divine Discple 5
That's my mistake. I was originally thinking of him as a mystic theurge based on his 2e stats, but later thought he worked better as a straight divine caster in 3e.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Arthedain
Acolyte
16 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 21:08:55
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Well, for straight power, and "ease of build" (for a lack of better terms), I'm inclined to agree. If I should use him in my own campaign I think I would have gone for something like Wiz3/Clr3/MT5/Dreadmaster6 (very similar in capabilities to the original 2nd ed incarnation). Then add some cleric or Dreadmaster levels on top of that if I need to bring him into epic levels. I think this is one of the great things about using the short form stats: It doesn't reduce the amount of Realmslore and "fluff", while still leaving room for DM's with time on their hands to create opponents that fit their group.
Anyway: This in no way detracts from the quality of the book in general, at least not the parts that I've read so far. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
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LordNull
Acolyte
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2006 : 13:22:31
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| I was reading about Ilthargh the topaz dracolich and it mentioned that Cypress was the first gem dragon to become a dracolich. But in second edition Cypress was a black dragon. So if he was a gem dragon now what kind is he? Also he is not listed with the other dragons in the back Thanks |
Artificial intelligence has nothing on natural stupidity |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2006 : 15:01:47
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quote:
Originally posted by LordNull
I was reading about Ilthargh the topaz dracolich and it mentioned that Cypress was the first gem dragon to become a dracolich. But in second edition Cypress was a black dragon. So if he was a gem dragon now what kind is he? Also he is not listed with the other dragons in the back Thanks
Yeah, I noticed that too...I think that is a slight ret-con...
Cypress was a very rare black dragon with psionic gifts...so he may have been the first psionic dracolich..but he wasn't a gem dragon...
infact there isn't a "black" gem dragon (onyx) except in that WoTC web arcticle on psionics (I think?) |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2006 : 15:28:24
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quote:
Originally posted by LordNull
I was reading about Ilthargh the topaz dracolich and it mentioned that Cypress was the first gem dragon to become a dracolich. But in second edition Cypress was a black dragon. So if he was a gem dragon now what kind is he? Also he is not listed with the other dragons in the back Thanks
It should say he was the first psionic dragon to become a dracolich.
He does appear in the table. See Hethcypressarvil.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2006 : 22:07:49
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
quote:
Originally posted by LordNull
I was reading about Ilthargh the topaz dracolich and it mentioned that Cypress was the first gem dragon to become a dracolich. But in second edition Cypress was a black dragon. So if he was a gem dragon now what kind is he? Also he is not listed with the other dragons in the back Thanks
Yeah, I noticed that too...I think that is a slight ret-con...
Cypress was a very rare black dragon with psionic gifts...so he may have been the first psionic dracolich..but he wasn't a gem dragon...
infact there isn't a "black" gem dragon (onyx) except in that WoTC web arcticle on psionics (I think?)
I think that is probably my mistake. I guess I felt that Cypress *should* have been a gem dracolich, but I believe you are correct that he was not one. (We have to remember to not confuse what we think should have been with what was). His death makes this a little less important, but still an error. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2006 : 23:33:15
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Hi Eric,
Is there any way you can tell us more about Alhazmabad, the male wyrm copper from the Pirate Isles? (personality, interests, etc. not stats)
Cheers! |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2006 : 00:12:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
There seems to be an inconsistency in the CotD section of DoF in the history of the CotD it says that Algashon is a Mystic theurge however when hes stated up later in the chapter hes Cleric 25/Divine Discple 5
I thought he was something like W7/Clr14 in AD&D. Why so dramatic boost in levels? |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2006 : 02:16:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
There seems to be an inconsistency in the CotD section of DoF in the history of the CotD it says that Algashon is a Mystic theurge however when hes stated up later in the chapter hes Cleric 25/Divine Discple 5
I thought he was something like W7/Clr14 in AD&D. Why so dramatic boost in levels?
I think I recall Eric commenting on that somewhere else, but I can't recall where. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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BobROE
Learned Scribe
Canada
106 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2006 : 01:21:45
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quote:
Originally posted by BobROE
Review http://www.enworld.org/reviews.php?do=review&reviewid=3055805&origin=
Eric, Eytan, comments?
Eytan has read that one, and he was not amused by it... But someone who commented on his blog stated that the reviewer is known for being a statblock person, but that other people have analyzed his "corrections" and found mistakes in them.
Myself, the only merit I found to that review was the observation that there were a lot of typos. And yeah, I did notice that about the book. I'm not sweating it, though, because some typos will always get by, and WotC has been a lot better about that, of late.
The reviewer seems to be suffering from the "it's not what I want, so it's utter crap!" syndrome that so many reviewers fall prey to. Me, I think that the review is worth the paper it's printed on.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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BobROE
Learned Scribe
Canada
106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2006 : 03:05:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Eytan has read that one, and he was not amused by it... But someone who commented on his blog stated that the reviewer is known for being a statblock person, but that other people have analyzed his "corrections" and found mistakes in them.
Myself, the only merit I found to that review was the observation that there were a lot of typos. And yeah, I did notice that about the book. I'm not sweating it, though, because some typos will always get by, and WotC has been a lot better about that, of late.
The reviewer seems to be suffering from the "it's not what I want, so it's utter crap!" syndrome that so many reviewers fall prey to. Me, I think that the review is worth the paper it's printed on.
Not saying I agree with it (I quite like DoF 4/5) but I was just wondering what their response to it was. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2006 : 05:55:14
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Look, I love the book, and it will be very useful in my campaign.
With that said, the reviewer is SPOT ON: lots of typos and lots of botched stat blocks. I'm a gamer before a reader, so to me, stat blocks are an absolute waste of book space if they are not meticulously done.
One cannot say with integrity that the quality of this book is 'top notch'. I'm a great fan of the Realms and its various authors and designers, but here, I'll have to say "bad! very, very bad!" and "you can do better son!"
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2006 : 06:21:15
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I would like to have seen more about dragons NOT involved in the Cult of the Dragon history. Stories about the actual purple dragon etc or the dragons near cormyr would have been interesting.
I agree that there should have been pics of mist dragons etc.
I know there were a few bits here and there but it would be neat to see how dragons and their kin interact more with other serpent folk (those created by the Sarrukh) I would like to have heard more about the Dawn Ages and more about ancient dragon kingdoms and clans (although I respect the fact that history is limited due to their individualistic nature)
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"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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martynq
Seeker
United Kingdom
90 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2006 : 13:18:33
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quote:
But someone who commented on his blog stated that the reviewer is known for being a statblock person, but that other people have analyzed his "corrections" and found mistakes in them.
Myself, the only merit I found to that review was the observation that there were a lot of typos. And yeah, I did notice that about the book. I'm not sweating it, though, because some typos will always get by, and WotC has been a lot better about that, of late.
The reviewer seems to be suffering from the "it's not what I want, so it's utter crap!" syndrome that so many reviewers fall prey to. Me, I think that the review is worth the paper it's printed on.
I find that this particular reviewer's reviews are very useful for correcting (or at least considering corrections to) a particular source. However, I'm far more interested in flavour and much less so in stats. I have no problem generating/fixing stats, whereas Realms-flavour is harder to produce and I like Eric's way of doing it.
Martyn |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2006 : 21:59:27
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quote:
Originally posted by martynq
quote:
But someone who commented on his blog stated that the reviewer is known for being a statblock person, but that other people have analyzed his "corrections" and found mistakes in them.
Myself, the only merit I found to that review was the observation that there were a lot of typos. And yeah, I did notice that about the book. I'm not sweating it, though, because some typos will always get by, and WotC has been a lot better about that, of late.
The reviewer seems to be suffering from the "it's not what I want, so it's utter crap!" syndrome that so many reviewers fall prey to. Me, I think that the review is worth the paper it's printed on.
I find that this particular reviewer's reviews are very useful for correcting (or at least considering corrections to) a particular source. However, I'm far more interested in flavour and much less so in stats. I have no problem generating/fixing stats, whereas Realms-flavour is harder to produce and I like Eric's way of doing it.
Martyn
In general, that is precisely what I like his reviews for. And I agree, stat blocks and editing are something that need to improve in future books. I can't say much for the typos as I think I did a fairly good job on my end - I have no idea what the editing process is and it's always possible to miss errors in your own work. While we should always shoot for as few errors as possible, I do think that the stat block errors signal a current difficulty with the system - stat blocks, especially those of monsters with class levels or complicated abilities - are incredibly difficult to do perfectly. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2006 : 23:10:16
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So, how are these stat blocks generated? The reason I ask is because of my experience with another game, BattleTech. In BT, building a custom Mech or modifying an existing one can lead to some serious paperwork and number-crunching. Even with a custom spreadsheet I had created, it could still take an hour or so of juggling and trying different things before I came up with a workable combination. With just a calculator, pencil, and paper, it could take me around 2.5 hours to do it... But then I got this program that was designed specifically for designing Mechs. The program works so well that it's the official program used for making Mechs -- even the designers use HMP when writing new TROs and such. With that program, it takes mere minutes, and you know if there's any mistakes as soon as you make them.
My point is that if everyone used some software like E-Tools, it would be a lot easier (assuming it can monsters and CR and such).
So that's why I ask: how are the stat blocks generated? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2006 : 23:15:05
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In my last campaign I used E-Tools as much as possible, but it can't do the job well with monsters having both advanced HD and class levels.
Of course, stats errors are far less a problem when only the DM see them 
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Edited by - Skeptic on 12 Sep 2006 23:16:05 |
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Topic |
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Dragons of Faerun
(pg 154)