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Origninally posted by Dargoth:
Something else I just though of Sean Ryenolds Deities Does and Donts WE for F&P includes a listing of animals that each deity is the realms likes to use...

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Originally posted by Chosen of Bane

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Origninally posted by Dargoth:
Something else I just though of Sean Ryenolds Deities Does and Donts WE for F&P includes a listing of animals that each deity is the realms likes to use...

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Well, I just checked the Faiths and Pantheons Web Enhancement and found the following...

Gond, Oghma, and all the elemental deities don't have any animals listed for them, so that really doesn't help.

The elemental deities could easily be solved with small elementals of the appropriate type.

For Gond I guess you can use some type of Effigy type horse from Complete Arcane or maybe an animated piece of furniture....

Oghma...I got no clue.

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Originally posted by Arivia

Dargoth, mind passing it my way?

I have a few ideas for some of the issues in this thread, but I'd need to see the class first...

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Originally posted by Dargoth

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Originally posted by Arivia

Dargoth, mind passing it my way?

I have a few ideas for some of the issues in this thread, but I'd need to see the class first...

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PM me your email address and Ill mail it to you (its in a MS DOC file)

Due to the table in it I cant post it here in the thread

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Originally posted by Arivia

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Originally posted by Dargoth

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Originally posted by Arivia

Dargoth, mind passing it my way?

I have a few ideas for some of the issues in this thread, but I'd need to see the class first...

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PM me your email address and Ill mail it to you (its in a MS DOC file)

Due to the table in it I cant post it here in the thread

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Done.

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Originally posted by Arivia

Cleaned up writeup of Divine Focus:
Divine Focus(Ex): A crusader may choose one domain from their deity's domain list. They gain the granted benefit for that domain. Alternatively, if the crusader's patron deity has an initiate feat(defined as a feat with the initiate subtype, for which the crusader's deity is listed as a requirement), they may instead gain all benefits of that initiate feat except for the spells added to their spell list. The crusader may then select four spells from their deity's domain spells or spells granted with an initiate feat, which are then added to their spell list.
Note: Initiate feats can be found in Champions of Ruin, Champions of Valor, Player's Guide to Faerun, and Races of Destiny.
Also, all of the abilities need type notes: Ex, Su, Sp.
Retemplating of Weapon of the Deity:
Weapon of the Deity(Sp): Once a week, a crusader may use weapon of the deity(see Complete Divine, Magic of Faerun or Spell Compendium) as a spell-like ability. They may only target their deity's favored weapon with this ability. They gain one additional use of this ability for each three levels above 6th.

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Originally posted by Dargoth
Id probably only refer people to Magic of Faerun for Weapon of the Deity as its the only one of the 3 books that have weapons listed by FR deity

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Originally posted by Arivia

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Originally posted by Dargoth
Id probably only refer people to Magic of Faerun for Weapon of the Deity as its the only one of the 3 books that have weapons listed by FR deity

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It's a useful enough class that I'd suggest keeping the core line references in-they certainly don't hurt, and they only add to its usage.

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Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

Well, due to the whole Metatext thing Liera might have qualified, but since she is gone . . .

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Originally posted by Kuje
Otherwise I like the class. But, I was also concerned about the Initate spells.... They could get out of hand but Arivia knows the rules better then I do and she can help you better then I can with balancing those. :)

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Originally posted by Chosen of Bane

A small and rather insignificant point but...

In your listing of sourcematerial for initiate feats you neglected to mention City of Splendors: Waterdeep, which has the Initiate of Shar feat.

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Originally posted by Kuje

Arivia commented on most of the comments I was going to say. :) You need to add the SP, SU, etc, tags to the ability write ups. I did do some editing and I've sent you my edited file back to you.

I also am a bit concerned about the TN's. They seem to get shafted with mounts.... :(

Otherwise I like the class. But, I was also concerned about the Initate spells.... They could get out of hand but Arivia knows the rules better then I do and she can help you better then I can with balancing those. :)

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Originally posted by Dargoth
The Mounts are currently under revision. (and are looking quite nice, I never new there where so many +1 templates in 3.0/3.5)

There is a reason why Ive allowed the Crusader to choose any 4 spells from the Initiate Feat and the Deities Domains

1)Some of the Domains have spells the Crusaders likely to get in his core spell list (When I do the spell list Im likely going to merge the Blackguard and Paladin spell lists together with a few restrictions based on alignment ie Evil Crusaders wont be able to cast Holy Sword and vice versa)

2)The Crusader only gets access to spells from level 1 to 4 and some Initiate feats have few and in some case no spells within that range

3)Now a Crusader could take 4 4th level spells from the Initiate/Domains open to him however he wont gain access to 14th level at the earliest. The Divine Focus spells are investment that wont pay off until later in the Crusaders Career

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Originally posted by Dargoth

Which ones in particularly do you have problem with?

Or is just the ones in your previous post that you think are underpowered?

Most of the Initiate Feats seem to have a prereq based on the level of the lowest spell a cleric gets to add ie you need to be 5th level to take the Initiate of Bane feat (Mystic lash is the first spell you get (and you need to be 5th level to cast a 3rd level spell)

As for some Initiate benefits being better than others this is probably true (and in some cases its desireablity may rise or fall based what the player plans to go with the Crusader Class/PrC wise) that being said the Crusader doesnt have to take his Deities Initiate Feat Benefit he can choose the Benefit from one of deities Domains instead this gives him a choice between 3 to 4 Benefits at the minimum.

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Originally posted by Arivia

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Originally posted by Dargoth

Which ones in particularly do you have problem with?

Or is just the ones in your previous post that you think are underpowered?

Most of the Initiate Feats seem to have a prereq based on the level of the lowest spell a cleric gets to add ie you need to be 5th level to take the Initiate of Bane feat (Mystic lash is the first spell you get (and you need to be 5th level to cast a 3rd level spell)

As for some Initiate benefits being better than others this is probably true (and in some cases its desireablity may rise or fall based what the player plans to go with the Crusader Class/PrC wise) that being said the Crusader doesnt have to take his Deities Initiate Feat Benefit he can choose the Benefit from one of deities Domains instead this gives him a choice between 3 to 4 Benefits at the minimum.

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I'm more concerned about the ones I listed as being more powerful than your average feat. Those are poweful enough, and unbalancing at 1st level.

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Originally posted by Dargoth
Lets take a look and see if we can find something that grants a similar benefit

Initiate of Bane: The Frightful presence benefit is almost exactly the same as the Dreadful wrath regional feat which is avaliable to 1st level characters (admitedly its restricted to certain regions) as such I dont think it could be considered to be overpowered

Initiate of Cyric: Immunity to Magical non magical fear like the Banite Frightful presence this ability has a clone as a regional feat ie Fearless so Id say it balance. Also consider this a regular Paladin basicly gets the what an Initiate of Cyric gives in the form of Aura of Courage at 3rd level. Now admitedly a Paladin has to wait until 3rd level before he gets it however the Paladins Aura of Courage also gives every ally within 10 feet of the a +4 morale bonus to saves against fear, the initiate of Cyric only makes the Crusader immune to fear theres no bonus to allies

Initiate of Gruumsh: 1 per day convert a Cure spell into a swift inflict spell,. CoR gives this to clerics at 3rd level. I dont think this is a problem remember to use this ability the crusader of Gruumsh has to be able to convert an existing Cure Spell into an inflict spell and a Crusader wont have access to that until they reach 4th level at the earliest

Initiate of Ilmater: Yes this does seem to be rather powerful but I dont think it is. The caster can only add HPs equal to the targets HD (Im guessing thats meant to be a divided by symbol)divided by 3
So assuming that the target is a 20th level character the maximum number of HPs he'd get is 6 (20 divided by 3 = 6.6666 rounded is 6.
6hps isnt alot for 20th level character.... admitedly they do get a couple of nice bonuses as well but I dont think its 2 over powered

Initiate of Mystra: Ok this one might be a little overpowered but how often is are you going to be in a Dead magic area or trapped in an Anti Magic field also remember a Crusader cant cast spells until at least 4th level. Its a little overpowered but the benfit is only avaliable in a very few circumstances. Im incline to let it stand as is.

These 2 are easily dealt with Law Inviolate, Whispered Secrets there not FR specfic Initiate feats (There from Races of Destiny)so you cant use them for divine focus

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Originally posted by Arivia


However, you're forgetting that they'll be getting this ability at 1st level, and as only part of an ability! The initiate feats are specifically balanced with that level requirement, and you're removing that. Additionally, we know the 3.5 regional feats are overpowered for specific reasons, which we are not duplicating here.

Granting these benefits at 1st level in this way is unbalancing. It's just that simple.

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Originally posted by Dargoth

Question: Can you apply the Fiendish Template to a Rat swarm?

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“Fiendish” is an inherited template that can be added to any corporeal aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin of nongood alignment (referred to
hereafter as the base creature).

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Diminutive Animal (Swarm)

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