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Inquisitor
Acolyte
Germany
42 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 15:03:58
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"Real" in the sense of cunning and powerful like dragons are in the PnP and not the pushovers dragons are in most novels.
In most FR Novels I have read so far dragons, which are supposed to be mighty and intelligent creatures, are either total pushovers (for example Cormyr, a novel where the purple dragon gets defeated by an elf with a stick or all Year of the Rogue Dragon books where the only thing which "shatters" in this officially "Realms shattering event" are dragon skulls which are killed by everyone who can hold a weapon while they can't raze a simple monastery yet alone a city and I was told dragons don't fare any better in the Archwizard books) or totally idiotic/irrational (Elminsters daughter where a dragon joins Vangey as consort in stasis and gives up its entire hoard to save his life and that while the only interaction between them was Vangey attacking, capturing and threatening to enslave the dragon and its whole race which is hardly a reason to be friendly with him let alone sacrificing so much for him).
So, are dragons just large toys in the FR which are at best vermin to be squished and it is a wonder that they aren't extincted yet or a pet for nobles to show around or are there at least some books which portrays dragons like they should be, as powerful and intelligent monster?
And whats the reason that many FR authors portray dragons in such a way as they do now?
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 15:45:38
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First, I think you are being a bit unfair about some of the examples that you give.
The Song Dragon you refer to in Elminster's Daughter is a type of dragon that is used to living among humans and socializing, so they don't exactly have the same priorities as other dragons.
The dragons in the Year of Rogue Dragons are half mad with the rage ("Yes, now I'll make sure to charm this person so they can spy on . . . KILL KILL . . . or perhaps I'll just eat them now).
But reading Elfsong and seeing the dragon Grimnashtadrano or reading about Mistenarperadnecles in Azure Bonds might be more what you are thinking of. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 16:14:02
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The problem with finding a "real" dragon is the fact that we have to remember that their mindset would be very different than ours. I mean, the Dragons you are talking about are 1000s of years old - it's already hard enough to think like an elf.
Plus, to be honest, not all Dragons are that cunning - look at Whites from 2E - dumb as bricks.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 17:35:11
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
The problem with finding a "real" dragon is the fact that we have to remember that their mindset would be very different than ours. I mean, the Dragons you are talking about are 1000s of years old - it's already hard enough to think like an elf.
Plus, to be honest, not all Dragons are that cunning - look at Whites from 2E - dumb as bricks.
C-Fb
Heh heh, see Silver Shadows for an excellent illustration of this fact. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 18:07:53
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
The problem with finding a "real" dragon is the fact that we have to remember that their mindset would be very different than ours. I mean, the Dragons you are talking about are 1000s of years old - it's already hard enough to think like an elf.
It's the "human in funny suits" syndrome. Plagues fantasy and sci-fi everywhere. It's very rare that I come across a fantasy non-human race that, well, acts like non-humans with a truly different mindset; most of the time they're just like humans, with a few traits exaggerated. Halflings are cute and roguish. Dwarves are gruff and hard-working. Elves hug trees and are aloof. Dragons hoard treasure and are susceptible to flattery. And so on and so forth.
I want genuinely alien non-humans. :/ I know, I know, it's conceived by a human mind, so to some extent it'll suffer from the aforementioned syndrome. But can we have it in a less obvious manner? Pretty please? |
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Inquisitor
Acolyte
Germany
42 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 19:12:30
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
First, I think you are being a bit unfair about some of the examples that you give.
The Song Dragon you refer to in Elminster's Daughter is a type of dragon that is used to living among humans and socializing, so they don't exactly have the same priorities as other dragons.
The dragons in the Year of Rogue Dragons are half mad with the rage ("Yes, now I'll make sure to charm this person so they can spy on . . . KILL KILL . . . or perhaps I'll just eat them now).
But reading Elfsong and seeing the dragon Grimnashtadrano or reading about Mistenarperadnecles in Azure Bonds might be more what you are thinking of.
I don't think my examples are unfair. Jostil might be a Song Dragon but her behavior is still completly unlogical especially because of her race she would be closer to humans than other dragons. Who with his right mind would throw away everything to save and join someone he only knew for days as consort when this someone attacked, captured and threatened to enslave him and his whole race? No one would, not even (or rather "especially not) proud and powerfull (song) dragons.
And many dragon in the Year of the Rogue Dragon novels are not raged yet they still fight (and die) like lowly kobolds.
What about the flight of dragons send to attack the monastry? They weren't raged yet they couldn't even raze the monastry and sustained heavy losses even before the heroes arrived.
That goblins caused greater destruction than dragons in those books should show how badly they are written in this aspect.
I will search for the books you mentioned but I guess that they are a bit older?
And was I told right about the Archmage books that in this books too dragons are portrayed very weak? |
Edited by - Inquisitor on 26 Nov 2005 19:27:00 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 19:51:59
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Well, the Song Dragon in question also used to worship Shar, which isn't exactly par for the course for the species either . . .
Yes, they are a bit older, but both good books.
It depends on how you feel about powerful mages dominating dracoliches . . . the rest of the blues all follow their Suzerain, as is their custom, so it pivots on him . . . |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 19:54:50
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Oh, and about the dying like lowly Kobolds . . . when was the last time a kobold killed off a chunk of the King's guard in Damara? I think its a balance you have to strike between dragons being invincible and dragons being just another monster, but tastes will vary.
And to Winterfox's thoughts, I understand what you are saying, but the more you make a creature with alien thoughts and motivations (which is difficult enough considering to my knowlage on humans have written novels) the less you can understand them and the less they hold your attention. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 20:14:42
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
And to Winterfox's thoughts, I understand what you are saying, but the more you make a creature with alien thoughts and motivations (which is difficult enough considering to my knowlage on humans have written novels) the less you can understand them and the less they hold your attention.
I disagree so strongly that I'm using italics.
A whole novel about them, from their point of view, will probably end up with them humanized. But in general, if say, the story's mostly about humans but a handful of central characters are not, I want them to be different. Alienness can be extremely fascinating to explore; it'd be a lot more fun to me than reading about the fiftieth frakking generic elf, dwarf, dragon or halfling, at the very least. Alienness can be frightening -- you don't need to understand, but the lack of identification with the characters could still intrigue you, in a morbid sort of way. Give me the weird mentality, the strange reactions, the alien creature's inability to empathize with humans because what could happen to us can never happen to them, and so on and so forth.
And quite frankly? IMO, if all you're going to have in your novels are humans in funny suits, then ditch the suits. They serve no purpose beyond the cosmetic. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 20:26:33
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Well, I did say the the MORE you do this the harder they are to understand or follow, that doesn't mean that some degree of alien behavior is not called for. And yes, if your antagonist is alien, but you are drawn in by the protagonists, it can make for a more interesting story.
A couple of examples. To a degree in the Erevis Cale books Vhostym and the Slaad are very alien, yet when it comes right down to it, many of their motivations that drive the story line are identifiable an clear.
I am am often reminded in these areas of Tolkien's comments about the Silmarillion as compared to the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings, and the fact that without the hobbits to "moderate" what is going on, the more serious, long term view of the elves made the book very dry to read.
So some alien, good, too much alien, bad. But that is just my point of view. |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 20:48:40
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| May I point out that D&D lore already assigns essentially human emotions and attitudes (pride, greed, etc.) to dragons? So, if an author managed the difficult trick of portraying the creatures as profoundly alien, some readers might like it, but I suspect that others would be irked at the lack of consistency with the source material. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 20:56:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
May I point out that D&D lore already assigns essentially human emotions and attitudes (pride, greed, etc.) to dragons? So, if an author managed the difficult trick of portraying the creatures as profoundly alien, some readers might like it, but I suspect that others would be irked at the lack of consistency with the source material.
Yes, I recognize that, which is one reason I only read a handful of FR novelists nowadays rather than leap to pick up everything with the FR logo on it. (I'll buy the rest of the WotSQ, The Ruin, EC's final book in S&S, and Waterdeep once it comes out in paperback, and... probably nothing else for a very long time.)
Besides, the problem -- I consider it a problem, anyway, or at least a major pet peeve -- exists in non-D&D fantasy that doesn't even have established canon and rules to constrain them, just authorial stubbornness in adhering to genre clich�s. |
Edited by - Winterfox on 26 Nov 2005 21:07:51 |
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Inquisitor
Acolyte
Germany
42 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 21:16:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
May I point out that D&D lore already assigns essentially human emotions and attitudes (pride, greed, etc.) to dragons? So, if an author managed the difficult trick of portraying the creatures as profoundly alien, some readers might like it, but I suspect that others would be irked at the lack of consistency with the source material.
D&D lore also assign attributes like intelligence and strength to dragons, yet those are often ignored in novels and dragons are reduced to mere toys and page fillers.
And when we talk about consesty with the source material, how was Dorn able to knock out a great wyrm silver dragon with one hit? I appreciate that you try to stay very close to the D&D material but as I see it it is impossible to write a whole novel and be 100% consistent with the source material so no matter what one does some readers get irked which in this example includes me.
And no offense against you Mr. Byers but your books are a good example of how weak some novels portray dragons which is especially bad when the destruction dragons can do are the main theme of the books. I am sure you have a reason why dragon recieve so few "screen time" in your books and thus appear to be weak but this is something with irks me as it becomes more and more common in FR novels.
PS: This should probably go in the Chamber of Sages board, but might I ask how many dragons/drakes exactly attacked the monastry and how many monks were in it? |
Edited by - Inquisitor on 26 Nov 2005 21:34:52 |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 21:55:12
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No offense taken, Inquisitor. And I trust you won't be offended if I decline to respond to your criticisms. It's nothing personal against you. I try not to respond to anybody's criticisms of my work. Arguing with readers who find fault with one's stuff is a losing game for writers, for reasons I've posted previously (although I can post them again if anybody missed the previous discussion and is curious. Let me know. Maybe in Chamber of Sages, since it would be off topic for this thread)
The answer to your question (or the non-answer) is that I honestly don't remember anymore. Please understand, I wrote the novel years ago and have written a lot of other stuff since. You don't retain every detail, or at least I don't. Sorry. I'm pretty sure it was too many dragons and not enough monks to improve your opinion of the book. |
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Inquisitor
Acolyte
Germany
42 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 22:22:38
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I too am not offended, its a rather intelligent attitude you have.
And despite how it might look don't think that I have something against you books. I do like them, especially how Kara is incooperated into the hero group and, as a gamer, I also like to recognize some PRCs in novels. Its just that after reading some other books and discussing with other readers I discovered that most FR books I have read follow the trend of devalueing dragons and your books are simply good examples for dragons in novels because of their thematic but there are books which I consider much worse in dragon behaviour than yours. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2005 : 22:44:17
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Here we go again...
I honestly didn't feel that the dragons in the Rogue Dragons trilogy weren't powerful enough, or that they were little more than toys. Yes, maybe the heroes in the books got lucky more times than one would expect. But when you get right down to it, I didn't care. What I liked was the actual story, and character interactions. It doesn't bother me that the book doesn't try to whiz around Faerun showing us scenes of dragons destroying cities in the Shining South, Savage Frontier, Cormyr, etc. The books stay focused on the people involved, and I like that. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 03:29:23
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Well, I also don't want to get into this again, but suffice to say, if someone can show me in the Year of Rogue Dragons where a protagonist kills a dragon in one shot, or walks away saying, "Stupid dragons are so easy to kill," I'll concede your point.
Also, we see all through the book that the Rage starts to affect the dragon's reason and temperment before it fully consumes them. Several dragons are shown as doing things against their nature without being fully in the Rage, do I don't think it follows to assume that if a dragon isn't a mindless killing machine incapable of speech that it is fully in control of all of its faculties. It seems to be a bit more gradual than that. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 04:40:53
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Not every dragon is a Great Wyrm with years of guile, battle experience and maturity behind them. If you can expect your players to kill all manner of creatures (and from the threads I've seen over the years there are some campaigns where the players kill Larloch, Elminster, Asmodeus, the tarrasque and the Elder Evils and then have a break for lunch ...), why not dragons? Again, I'm getting the impression from this thread that if the protagonists of the story don't suffer deaths, maiming or the loss of loved ones - then they haven't "earned" their victory and are being 'favored' by the author because the story isn't 'realistic'. I love that one. People who want stories about dragons to be 'realistic'.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 05:55:27
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I love that one. People who want stories about dragons to be 'realistic'.
Well, I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting a story to follow the established logic of its setting. But still, in this case I don't think the Rogue Dragons books "violate" setting logic, and like you said not all dragons are immensely powerful to begin with. If the heroes do at times get "too lucky", I don't think it's enough to ruin the story or make them author's darlings (at least I never got the impression that they were, and I've seen a good share of author's darlings). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Ignorance Personified
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 06:17:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Inquisitor:
"Real" in the sense of cunning and powerful like dragons are in the PnP and not the pushovers dragons are in most novels.
Well, the dragon depicted in Richard Baker's story within Realms of Dragons is in accordanace with your definition.
In addition, the dragon sisters within RAS' contribution to the same anthology may also meet the criteria you laid out.
-->Warning, as I am the personification of ignorance, you will almost certainly disagree.
quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfox:
But in general, if say, the story's mostly about humans but a handful of central characters are not, I want them to be different.
Yes, it is mesmerizing (sp--probably?) to read about truly alien characters who are drastically different than humans, but it is a very rare occurence and I do not believe it will become more frequent in the foreseeable future.
As an aside, Dan Simmons' Illium is the most recent book I have read that accomplishes this remarkable task--see warning above. |
Carthago delenda est. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 11:49:34
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Again, I'm getting the impression from this thread that if the protagonists of the story don't suffer deaths, maiming or the loss of loved ones - then they haven't "earned" their victory and are being 'favored' by the author because the story isn't 'realistic'. I love that one. People who want stories about dragons to be 'realistic'.
-- George Krashos
And...?
Yes, there's such a thing as author's darlings, and yes, if protagonists get what they want too easily, it does look contrived (though I wouldn't say such is the case in the Year of the Rogue Dragons books, thus far). As for "realistic"? Are you saying that it's ridiculous for fantasy to be realistic? Oh, freaking please. Fantasy and sci-fi may not adhere to real-world laws and precedents, but it has to be internally logical and consistent. Or, at least, the good ones do. |
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Inquisitor
Acolyte
Germany
42 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 11:54:37
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| I don't have a problem about the heroes in the Year of the Rogue Dragon books, my problem ist that the non-heroes also have no problem when dealing with dragons. |
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Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 13:35:30
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And yet, this is why dragons in novels are seperated from those in player based campaigns. In the novels, it is all about imagination, as it is in player based campaigns. A book is meant to entertain and a player based campaign has rules attached to it. Each novelist has his/her own point of view in the books that they write. Just because they slightly down-grade the might of a dragon is to show that even THEY are mortal as well.
Try to differentiate the dragons in FR novels to the dragons in the movies. Those examples are nearly the same. They show that the dragons are mortal and can die just as easily as we can. |
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDonLNKf6_KA9Qlal3Qu3zQ?view_as=subscriber |
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Inquisitor
Acolyte
Germany
42 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 15:23:09
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| Imo "slightly downgrade" is a understatment. It has nothing to do with showing that dragons are mortal, we see then even when they are killed after a long and hard battle with the heroes. But in some books the death of a dragon by the hand of a unnamed character is reduced to a footnote. See "The Rage" when the queens bronzes raged in the middle of their own army. Many of them weren't even able to kill their surprised rider and even with dragons raging in their middle and beeing assaulted by a Cult of Dragon army including a dracolich, the army sustained only minor losses and afterwards were still able to successfully assault an Cult of Dragon fortress. |
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Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 15:35:15
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| Refer to the part where I said 'Each novelist has his/her own point of view in the books that they write.'. That is what it boils down to. It is too clichè when a hero defeats a dragon, so an author has a non hero character defeat a dragon. Is there a fault in that?? IMO, I think not. |
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDonLNKf6_KA9Qlal3Qu3zQ?view_as=subscriber |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 15:43:34
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Should a rampaging dragon be able to kill thousands of commoners and do a lot of damage to a city? Yes. Should a dragon that rages in the middle of armed solidiers already prepared to fight dragons do some serious damage? Yes. Should the same amount of damage and carnage be visited upon armed soldiers ready to fight dragons, even if they are surprised by their own allies turning on them? I personally don't think so.
As far as the Year of Rogue Dragons goes, I don't think any dragon has died too easily, but what I am starting to suspect is that since there are so many dragons featured in the book, even if they die taking hundreds of people with them, that dragons as a whole aren't as rare and wonderous since they are on nearly every other page. That would be the nature of this particular series of novels though.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 19:24:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Inquisitor
I don't have a problem about the heroes in the Year of the Rogue Dragon books, my problem ist that the non-heroes also have no problem when dealing with dragons.
Much like KnightErrantJR, I honestly fail to see how this is the case. The really powerful dragons in these books (and we are told and shown who they are) definitely have not gone down "with no problem" or without having caused serious damage first. There is even a battle in The Rite between very powerful good dragons that I thought was particularly intense even for me, as a reader. I didn't think the outcome was all that clear and obvious.
Also, if you read another book by Mr. Byers that deals with the effects of the Rage, Queen of the Depths, you can see that the author shows how devasting raging dragons are to undersea creatures and cities, and I certainly cannot say that the heroes or non-heroes (where is that line drawn, anyway?) won quickly, easily, and without taking any losses. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 27 Nov 2005 19:26:12 |
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Inquisitor
Acolyte
Germany
42 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 19:58:13
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The fight between Lareth and whatever his name was was ok, but the fight in the beginning of "The Rite", the fight for the monastry or rather what the fight implied, namely that dragons weren't able to even take the courtyard before the heroes did arrive and the many fight where the Taegan(?) basically fights a dragon alone (Mighty Sunwyrm? Defeated by a single Avariel?) are my problem. And for not beeing a proffessional dragonslayer he seems much better in dragon slaying than all other heroes.
For me there are simply to many "The dragon kills some common soldiers and then the soldiers kill the dragon" scenes in the books. Maybe its just me who wants an actual report of what the dragons have done (so far there is not a single description in the books about what was destroyed by raging dragons except for some small villages no one cares about) and that let it look as if dragons are not more dangerous than ogres as they too can kill several soldiers before felled. Compared to that ogres and goblins appear much more dangerous than the dragons. Goblins destroyed the border fortresses of Damara and that is the largest destruction mentioned so far in the books and ogres captured and nearly killed some of the heroes which is more than what dragons were able to do.
So far nothing "Realms Shaking" has happened despite that this books are listed as Realms Shaking Event.
As for my second complain especially song dragons (kara in The Rage, Jostil in Elminsters Daughter) show very irrational behavior which one can describe as nearly nymphomanic. And the partners they choose are always very strange too. A dragon hating half golem and a power hungry wizard who wants to enslave whole dragonkind.
I can't comment on Queen of the Depths as under water adventures don't interest me much so I haven't read it yet. |
Edited by - Inquisitor on 27 Nov 2005 20:00:14 |
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Deverien Valandil
Seeker
73 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 22:12:51
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Dragons do seem to get killed off by the barrel-full, don't they?
In a story that I'm working on, I was originally going to include a scene that would be a more likely outcome to the whole notion of 'dragon slaying'. I ended up discarding the idea early on since it didn't really fit in with the rest of the plot, but it would have gone something like this...
*Knight charges into dragon's lair*
Heroic Knight: "Foul dragon, I have come to slay you. Fear my mighty Sword of Dragon-Slaying, and know that I bear the Blessed Armour of Holy Strength, and that you shall fall before me in the name of my ancestors, and my ancestors' ancestors, and my hamster Pooky, and my second cousin twice removed!"
*Knight charges forward*
Heroic Knight: YAAAAAAH!
*Dragons raises its claw and smushes the knight under its hand, leaving a crunchy red splotch on the ground*
Dragon: (Yawn) Damn fool adventurers... Now I'll have to have my floors cleaned again... *Goes back to sleep*
Mind you, I would never have used wording and dialogue like that, but I think you get the general picture. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 22:23:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Inquisitor
As for my second complain especially song dragons (kara in The Rage, Jostil in Elminsters Daughter) show very irrational behavior which one can describe as nearly nymphomanic. And the partners they choose are always very strange too. A dragon hating half golem and a power hungry wizard who wants to enslave whole dragonkind.
I don't see how that even comes close to be being nymphomanical... And you're basing your opinion on two individuals -- it's kinda like looking at Kymil Nimesin and basing your opinion of the entire elvish race off of him.
Vangerdahast was not power-hungry, nor wanting to enslave whole dragonkind. He was wanting to bind a few dragons to defense of the kingdom. That's hardly enslaving a whole race, and doing it for the kingdom and not himself doesn't exact qualify as power-hungry. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2005 : 22:28:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Inquisitor
For me there are simply to many "The dragon kills some common soldiers and then the soldiers kill the dragon" scenes in the books. Maybe its just me who wants an actual report of what the dragons have done (so far there is not a single description in the books about what was destroyed by raging dragons except for some small villages no one cares about)
I kind of take issue with this too. If you lived in those villages, you'd damn well care about what happened to them (what *really* matters is whether or not the book can get you, the reader to care, and in my case it did). Also, the people who are defending villages (or a monastary) from rampaging dragons are no less heroic than the protagonists just because they, for the most part, remain nameless.
But I'd admit that wanting "reports" of what the dragons are doing is mostly a matter of personal taste. I don't care that there are no "reports" of that kind--I'm happy that the books stay focused rather than fly all over the place.
quote:
As for my second complain especially song dragons (kara in The Rage, Jostil in Elminsters Daughter) show very irrational behavior which one can describe as nearly nymphomanic. And the partners they choose are always very strange too. A dragon hating half golem and a power hungry wizard who wants to enslave whole dragonkind.
I'll admit that I'm still not sure what Kara really sees in Dorn (I can see why Dorn likes her, but not vice versa). As for Joysil, I could have sworn that her romantic partner was really Elminster, not Vangerdahast...
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I can't comment on Queen of the Depths as under water adventures don't interest me much so I haven't read it yet.
But does the Rage interest you? If so, it's a good book to read. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Does a FR book with "real" dragons exist?
