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Thureen Buroch
Learned Scribe
169 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Nov 2005 : 23:05:53
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I'm currently running a City of the Spider Queen campaign. When my players come out of it, they will be around level 20. Here's the problem, and this may sound odd, but I am something of a perfectionist at times. I want to present them with suitable challenges once they come out of this, but I don't like the idea of suddenly having them face a bunch of encounters with CR18-20 creatures because it seems like there shouldn't be a huge number of powerful creatures. Otherwise, these creatures would become just an average. Besides adventures on other planes, can you help me think of some ways I can throw difficult encounters at the players without making it seem like difficult suddenly became the norm in Toril?
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Goblins? *Slash* *Scream* *Thunk* What goblins? |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2005 : 23:25:52
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Spelljammers |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Thureen Buroch
Learned Scribe
169 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2005 : 23:40:56
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Ah, Spelljammers. A good idea, actually. I had been thinking of something like that, but of my own creation. Tell me what you think.
In FRCS, it states that the orcs came from another planet. Now, Toril and whatever planet the orcs came from have medieval technology. What if there were another planet with highly advanced technology? And what if explorers from that planet happened upon Toril? Or is that adding too much technology to Dungeons and Dragons? |
Goblins? *Slash* *Scream* *Thunk* What goblins? |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2005 : 23:42:12
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Yes, if you have any access to the products, Spelljammer is a good option. Just exploring Realmspace could be interesting. I don't know if you are planning on looking for a particular place for your PCs to adventure, travelling to Anauroch you could have them run into Shadovar and blue dragons, and if you travel north to Hartsvale you can start throwing giants at them, especially giants with class levels.
Having them continue to wander the Underdark you can have them run into Illithid enclaves, Beholder cities, and Phaerimm.
I guess the main thing to remember is that once they are high level, most things they run into in a civilized setting, like the Dalelands, isn't going to be a challenge for them. Cross country travel stops being an oppourtunity for experience and encounters, and the adventures themselves are the focus.
My players are only 8th level, but my planning has made up a demi-plane inhabited by high level wizards that practice "forbidden magic" such as Chronomancers, one of whom is going to open up a rift to the Far Realm. I am also thinking of having them travel to Maztica for a while (one of them is a cleric of Helm) and encounter a creature that was statted up in Dragon magazine, a giant sand crocodile apocalypse creature from Mayan mythology.
It seems trite, but I may even have them find whatever the resting place is for the Tarrasque, following the plot threads from the Forgotten Realms comic book series, and perhaps create an appocalyptic cult of Tarrasque worshippers.
Also keep in mind, once they get higher level, don't worry about time passing. The fighter may want to build a castle, and the wizard create a powerful magic item. Let six months or a year pass while they are working on these things. Its the nature of more powerful people to not be constantly fighting for their lives. Heck, if they settle in an area where you can justify it, let them have a year or two of peace while they tie up loose ends like creating items or building fortresses.
I am also a big proponent of making PCs perform something extraordinary before they can start gaining epic levels. You might let them each set an "epic goal" and when they are all accomplishd, they can start gaining epic levels. It gives them some control and depth to their characters.
Hope some of that was helpful. |
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Thureen Buroch
Learned Scribe
169 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2005 : 23:50:33
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| Thank you very much, KnightErrantJr. Your comment about the demiplane with practicers of forbidden magic and the idea of characters having to do something truly epic to become Epic characters helped a lot. |
Goblins? *Slash* *Scream* *Thunk* What goblins? |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
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Thureen Buroch
Learned Scribe
169 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 00:05:53
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| That is well detailed, as well as being well written. I thank you for your link, and congratulate you on the work you have done. |
Goblins? *Slash* *Scream* *Thunk* What goblins? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36793 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 01:18:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Thureen Buroch
Ah, Spelljammers. A good idea, actually. I had been thinking of something like that, but of my own creation. Tell me what you think.
In FRCS, it states that the orcs came from another planet. Now, Toril and whatever planet the orcs came from have medieval technology. What if there were another planet with highly advanced technology? And what if explorers from that planet happened upon Toril? Or is that adding too much technology to Dungeons and Dragons?
I think one of the old 1E modules had a crashed spacecraft in Greyhawk... And I know there was a 2E boxed set that involved a spacecraft crashing into the campaign world, and the PCs having to deal with the high-tech baddies the ship contained (one nasty bit: the aliens could take a corpse, add cyberware to it, and reanimate it). This boxed set was called, if I remember correctly, Tale of the Comet.
But I'd be adverse to bringing tech like that into the Realms... There's a lot of potential for abuse. |
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Thureen Buroch
Learned Scribe
169 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 02:53:24
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| Wooly, thanks for your help. Could you possibly tell me what some of the potential for abuse is, so I can take steps to avoid it? Thanks! |
Goblins? *Slash* *Scream* *Thunk* What goblins? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36793 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 03:36:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Thureen Buroch
Wooly, thanks for your help. Could you possibly tell me what some of the potential for abuse is, so I can take steps to avoid it? Thanks!
Sure, it's simple. Just think of how our modern technology would give an advantage in a fantasy world. Then make that technology better... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31716 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 03:44:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Thureen Buroch
Ah, Spelljammers. A good idea, actually. I had been thinking of something like that, but of my own creation. Tell me what you think.
In FRCS, it states that the orcs came from another planet. Now, Toril and whatever planet the orcs came from have medieval technology. What if there were another planet with highly advanced technology? And what if explorers from that planet happened upon Toril? Or is that adding too much technology to Dungeons and Dragons?
I think one of the old 1E modules had a crashed spacecraft in Greyhawk... And I know there was a 2E boxed set that involved a spacecraft crashing into the campaign world, and the PCs having to deal with the high-tech baddies the ship contained (one nasty bit: the aliens could take a corpse, add cyberware to it, and reanimate it). This boxed set was called, if I remember correctly, Tale of the Comet.
But I'd be adverse to bringing tech like that into the Realms... There's a lot of potential for abuse.
The GH module was Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. See here:- http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=1097&
And here as well:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expedition_to_the_Barrier_Peaks
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 06:44:22
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Hello Thureen,
The Characters in my Realms Campaign are now all between level 19 and 22, with most of the players having started at level 1. Like you, I ran them through City of the Spider Queen (in my case the last half, plus the CotSQ add-on adventure Spiral of Manzesine found in Dungeon Magazine).
One of the ways I found to keep suspension of disbelief going as they progressed in levels was to ease off a bit with the plot hooks, and let my players make decisions for themselves on where to go and what to do once they defeated the major Big Bad Evil Guy (that had been the focus of their levels 1-20) and had finally achieved level 21 or so.
My experience was that Epic and near-Epic characters always unearth new ways to find adventure, which my players did.
For example, my players set upon some 'Epic' goals for their characters, including:
• Building a group of flying and non-flying keeps with which to spread magic, teach magic and guard Cormyr's northern Stonelands border from the Shadovar.
• Overthrowing the Zhentarim.
• Finding and subduing the last Ghazneth.
• Returning to the extraplanar prison of Aumanator to bring his teachings back to Faerûn.
• Crafting and successfully casting their first Epic Spells.
Something else to remember is that a group of Epic or near-Epic characters can be defeated by groups of persistent, veteran enemies. If you apply the “Larloch Approach” (that is, sending countless Undead Servitors/minions at the PCs over time; always keeping them from resting and recuperating) but without finishing them off, you can remind the PCs why nations like Thay and nation states/regional powers like the Zhentarim of the Moonsea are entities to be respected and wary of, if not feared.
After all, EL 18-22 encounters don’t always have to be comprised of just one creature.
Finally, there are hideously evil and powerful beings/things in Faerûn, that sleep and/or don’t bother with the world, unless someone or something comes along that is worthy of its notice. Epic PCs can be that someone.
Good luck with your game!
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Khaa
Seeker
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 13:27:57
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| If you ever have a chance, read the book Double Exposure (cant remember author). It has a medieval plane and a future plane that could be crossed at certain areas. You could only cross if your other self was dead. Which could add campaign ideas. |
Ever want another forum? Well try out www.icewinddale.com |
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 16:31:14
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On another track... Why not set them into a political situation where extreme skill with a sword and the ability to level entire city blocks isn't what is necessary, but smoothe talk and back room dealing is the way to succeed.
Nothing strikes fear into an adventurers heart like a situation where they have no magic items to perservere, and the opponents are immune to attack, not from magic or inherent defenses, but because of their position in society.
"Kill him and you make a martyr." or "He's the King's nephew!" |
Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
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hooper101
Learned Scribe
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 18:40:54
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| I had already posted a little something on this in Houston we have dragons. At about 11th level your characters become geo-political heros and so their campaigns can be battles and cleaning up an area from large armies of some creature or another. Rememmber though even if a barbarian has mighty cleave he won't really enjoy smashing thousands of kobolds. I think Dm's forget the Gunslinger mentality of the old west I.E. You make yourself a name and then everybody is gunning for you. The characters in my campaigns are constantly worried when they get cool stuff because they know someone will come looking for them. Even low leveled characters can hurt you en'mase. The general idea is that yes these monsters are rare and they should stay that way. I am a firm believer that your players should live in the constant fear of death in the most simple ways. So that if they ever do encounter a dragon they nearly wet themselves and if they manage to survive they should feel like they really acomplished something. It shouldn't be a half hour later and "whew that was tough I was nearly to 50% Hp". Even a medium size theif enclave could make the characters lives miserable let alone the zhents. |
Die, die, die ,die, die, why won't you just die you silly dragon! |
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Thureen Buroch
Learned Scribe
169 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2005 : 21:51:59
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I thank everybody who has helped me with this issue. I have two adventures planned out that I can use after CotSQ. Thanks, Sanishiver, for your suggestion to stop presenting hooks and instead let the players decide what their characters' goals are.
quote:
On another track... Why not set them into a political situation where extreme skill with a sword and the ability to level entire city blocks isn't what is necessary, but smoothe talk and back room dealing is the way to succeed.
I do this quite a bit. My players (especially one) have made some very powerful allies using this tactic. One encounter run in this way can take half an hour to an hour easily, and it is actually more fun to run than combat.
Thanks again to everybody who's helped! |
Goblins? *Slash* *Scream* *Thunk* What goblins? |
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High Level Characters
