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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Oct 2005 : 21:27:27
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I have Campaign Cartographer, and the FR Atlas. With these tools comes a distance measuring utility.
I'm finding that the buildings are measuring out to be rather small. Yes I know I can adjust them as I see fit, and I do to a small degree, but I'm a perfectionist when it comes to matters of mathmatics.
Now spacious rooms, and opulent staircases are really a modern creation especially for the common man. So I'm curious, from our European members, how big were old medieval homes and inns?
Anyone have some common measurements?
Widths of hallways
Size of a typical room at an inn, not the common room.
Just wondering if anyone had some thoughts about it.
Last night I was working on a boarding house (Six Shields in Ashabenford) that was all of 20' x 30' in size. Now that's a small building. My townhouse is close, at 20' x 25'. I couldn't imagine how cramped that place would feel.
I've posted my map on my Yahoo group.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ForgottenRealmsCartography/?yguid=158706218
The place is suppose to be for cheap or poor travellers. So I made the rooms REALLY small.
5x6, 5x7, 7x6.... common room housing 4 bunk beds, so 8 patrons in a 10x20 room.
I ended up liking the design, as it continued to illustrate why the patrons are seen sitting out on the porch even when faced with the smell of a tannery next door.
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Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36793 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2005 : 02:23:52
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Keep in mind that while the Heartlands do parallel medieval Europe, it's not a direct correlation...
There are plenty of Realms sources that include floorplans for buildings. I'd look at some of those, and go from there. |
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Saime
Acolyte
Denmark
21 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2005 : 12:15:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
Last night I was working on a boarding house (Six Shields in Ashabenford) that was all of 20' x 30' in size. Now that's a small building. My townhouse is close, at 20' x 25'. I couldn't imagine how cramped that place would feel.
Common medieval houses were very small compared to modern houses. The poorest people lived in a cottage or hut which was some 5 by 3,5 metres, and had only one room. Those who were a bit better off might live in a lager cottage, some 10 by 4 metres, with two rooms: one with a hearth, the living area, the other with a stone oven. Chimneys were rare so the inside of the cottage would be very smoky. Windows were small or non-existing, so the cottage would be very dark as well.
Another variant were the long houses, typically 15 metres long. They were divided into two sections: a living area and a so called ‘byre’ or utility area used for housing animals, grain, tools etc. Such a house would last about 20 years.
References:
Barbara A. Hanawalt, The Ties that Bound, Oxford, 1986.
Frances and Joseph Gies, Life in a Medieval Village, HarperPerennial, 1991.
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Adventure had seemed a grand thing a day ago...but he'd been thinking more of an adventure without mules. |
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Misericordia
Seeker
Italy
66 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2005 : 12:36:15
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The medieval house has a common thing everywhere in Europe: his function. Is a workshop-house, an office-house, where the breadwinner, his relatives and the apprendices live and work together. Everyone eats at the same table, works in the same ambients and sleeps in the same common room. Are houses built predominantly in height (two or three floors), with a small garden (in the rear) used as a kitchen-garden and as wasteyard.
Here for Italian city houses:
At the low ground (between 25 and 30 square meters) there's a large ambient that is workshop and labor room: the low room. Near was a small entrance, often with 2 or 3 steps, that input, with a 2 meters hallway, into the internal court where you can find the kitchen (10 square meters), warehouses and stables. Between the oven (if present) and the garden there was outhouse. Ground area was about 100 square meters.
A little staircase led to first floor, where the only room (as the workshop, 25 square meters) was used as a night room for the breadwinner, dining room and hall. Second and eventually third floor (about 20 square meters) was used as sleeping room for the relatives and workers.
Typical room at inn was more or less similar to house sleeping room, so you can use a 20 square meters room for 4 or even 6 patrons.
hope this will help, and sorry for the ugly english. |
Omnia sunt communia. |
Edited by - Misericordia on 30 Oct 2005 12:48:06 |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2005 : 15:48:13
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Wooly,
Common problem I have with source maps, is that they depict beds being less than 5 feet long at times. Prime example is the Building Strongholds source book.
Saime, thanks for the references, I think I've heard of the first book.
Misericordia,
Thank you for the descriptive image of a typical medieval home. Though your english was choppy, I still appreciate your effort, and it did provide information.
FYI the measurements I provided in my original post were in feet. Sorry for not specifying that.
I feel that a "typical" room at a decent in is 10'x10' in size. This sleeps one person. Do you guys think this would be normal for a medieval inn room? |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2005 : 16:35:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
Wooly,
Common problem I have with source maps, is that they depict beds being less than 5 feet long at times. Prime example is the Building Strongholds source book.
The bed size is more likely a factor of using 5 foot squares, though average height of humans was shorter then so beds might not have been 6 foot or more long.quote:
I feel that a "typical" room at a decent in is 10'x10' in size. This sleeps one person. Do you guys think this would be normal for a medieval inn room?
10 X 10 is an easy unit to work with though Inn rooms might be smaller. All that would be needed is a bed at the lowest cost. Perhaps 5 X 7. A 10 X 10 room could hold two beds and table for wash basin and chamber pot. There would not be a dresser or a closet in most cases. An up scale room (expensive room) or a room intended for long them stays could include a chest to store items, a servant's room very small or other features.
All in all and ease of mapping I would go with the 10 X 10 rooms hallways and stairs 2 to 3 foot wide (this dependent in part on if doors open into the hallway as opposed to into the room and their size). Again a more up scale place would have hallways 5 foot wide or even wider.
Oh two beds to a room would tend to mean that beds could be rented out to strangers. Inns often had a common sleeping room as well for a lower price. Could be 20 X 20 or any other size depending on number of customers, basically just filled with beds.
One other thing that did exist, a common bed. One so large that 6 to 10 people could sleep in. This of course a design used to share body heat and more a feature of colder climates. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2005 : 17:38:17
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| For this matter I recommend you to take a look at The Elder Scrolls Morrowind, I know it is not Forgotten Realms, but the buildings are very well recreated and you can see there from little "tuna canes" rooms to great halls, average rooms, and so on.... and the buildings size is very similar (to not say equal) to the real-world size and look. Yus should check it, of course if you can... |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2005 : 02:48:46
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Thelonius, that is an excellent tip!!! I've played Morrowind A LOT, and I can't believe I never thought of that as a source of visualizing a working map.
Kentinal, do you think those common beds would be used in an inn for strangers to sleep in? Obviously it would have to be a cultural thing, but you think any of the cultures detailed in the FR world would fit the mold? It'd be really funny to see some foreigner type PCs reacting to a common bed. hehehe
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Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2005 : 03:41:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
Kentinal, do you think those common beds would be used in an inn for strangers to sleep in? Obviously it would have to be a cultural thing, but you think any of the cultures detailed in the FR world would fit the mold? It'd be really funny to see some foreigner type PCs reacting to a common bed. hehehe
I am not certain if any FR culture would use common bed, the common sleeping room appears to be what is most often descriped as the lowest cost bed for a night. That however should not prevent you from using it. There is much of the Realms that is unknown. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Thureen Buroch
Learned Scribe
169 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2005 : 23:01:40
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| Here's something to think about in terms of size. The average bathroom with linen closet, tub, toilet, and sink is about 5X10 feet. |
Goblins? *Slash* *Scream* *Thunk* What goblins? |
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Looking for insight of building design...
