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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Oct 2005 : 18:03:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Actually, I think it was Luke's X-Wing, not the Falcon.
Whoops. *slaps own forehead* It's been a while since I read them; I stand corrected.
quote:
But you do bring up some good points. The best bad guys are those that are calm and controlled, who act according to their intellect and not their passion.
Yes! Thrawn's reliance on racial art got a bit much (I genuinely can't see how you can analyze art and... predict space tactics?), and his leap of logic became plot-devicey, but I loved the moment where he ordered a tactical withdrawal and asked his subordinate -- Palleon? -- if said subordinate had expected him to press on in a fit of rage. |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2005 : 18:46:02
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| Indeed I think Khelben would be that perfect anti-Elminster. I find him as a close to the evil-line char. Just suppouse for a moment, if Laeral passes away, that would bring anger to Khelben and make him more lone-wolf, maybe in a grade that would affect him starting to see people as low ranked forms of living, forms of living that not deserve to live. That's why I like chars like Khelben (or as has been mentioned around here Batman), is not difficult to imagine them as evil hungry of power dark lords... |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
Edited by - Thelonius on 12 Oct 2005 18:46:53 |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2005 : 19:34:48
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Winterfox,
I agree with you on Grand Admiral Thrawn, He was a great villian! However, I take exception to the innuendo that I can not seperate fact from fiction. I can and do everyday. I also enjoy reading about intelligent, multi-layered villians with complex motives and personalities. I still stand by my statement that evil, by its nature is self-defeating! Grand Admiral Thrawn was not necessarily evil, yes, he was the antagonist in that series, but he was trying to restore the Empire that he had served all his life. Does that make him evil, or just dedicated to a lost and unworthy cause? (It has been a very long time since I read that series, also, so my comparisons may be off) I see an alarming trend in todays society that people are glorifying the evil or anti-hero. Very few "heroes" in fiction are truly heroic or noble. I find this slightly scary... This is just my opinion...
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El Magnifico Uno
Learned Scribe
113 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2005 : 20:02:41
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quote:
Very few "heroes" in fiction are truly heroic or noble.
It's the attempt to give characters a flaw in order to make them more human, it's a tried and true mechanism - think Sam Spade and film noir... But it's certainly not a new development nor a reflection on today's "global youth society", tragic f-'d up characters have been around since before Oedipus... Nonetheless, there are still plenty of stories currently out there with noble flawless knights shining with inner virtue and human perfection, you just need to seek them out... |
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ShadowJack
Senior Scribe
USA
350 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2005 : 21:25:03
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| Very good point Magnifico! I am not looking to read stories about anyone who is flawless, that is more fantasy than I can handle. What I do like to see in literature (and what I believe Elminster embodies) is someone who strives to do the right things, strives to be "good" person in their actions without limiting another persons right to do the same. It is that striving to be better than we were yesterday, to overcome our human foibles, to fight againist our "darker" side that makes a character heroic in my opinion. The challenge of correcting ones mistakes and learning from it and working to do better next time, rather than just saying it is easier to not try at all. Wow, I better let this go... |
ShadowJack |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2005 : 22:24:40
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadowJack
Winterfox,
I agree with you on Grand Admiral Thrawn, He was a great villian! However, I take exception to the innuendo that I can not seperate fact from fiction.
You were the one who brought up, "would you follow a tanar'ri lord...", not I.
quote:
I still stand by my statement that evil, by its nature is self-defeating!
I don't. IMO, the idea that evil characters will always underestimate things like love, loyalty, and self-sacrifice is merely self-righteous. Even a pretty damn hackneyed fantasy villain, Darken Rahl from Sword of Truth, had a follower who was genuinely loyal to him and who would sacrifice himself for him.
quote:
Very few "heroes" in fiction are truly heroic or noble. I find this slightly scary... This is just my opinion...
Truly heoric and noble people are dull. There's one reason why I don't read Drizzt or Elminster. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2005 : 01:15:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
I was rooting for Melkor/Morgoth. He was a lot more interesting than, say, Manwe. :p How would you like to explain the popularity of, say, George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire, anyway, if you think people should adore tales of heroes winning all the time so much?
I didn't say that people should adore tales of heroes winning all the time. What I said was that it's pretty much a standard of heroic fantasy fiction that the good guys win. You shouldn't be surprised or upset when it happens. I haven't read Martin's books so I'm not qualified to comment. I hear he writes well, however.
quote:
I'm sorry, but way to miss the point. Besides, "global youth community" bit? I can't help but find that condescending. And please don't tell people what they should or should not enjoy on moralistic grounds. That's... a bit much.
I agree. My moral compass isn't yours or anyone else's.
quote:
Besides, a lot of time the antagonists and villains are a lot more intelligent and fascinating than their heroic counterparts, anyway. (I think Sarya's a great deal less dull than Araevin and his party put together, for instance. That doesn't say much, but still.)
Nice, broad sweeping generalisation. You had me until this bit.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2005 : 01:23:06
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Nice, broad sweeping generalisation. You had me until this bit.
-- George Krashos
Is it any more broad or sweeping or a generalization than your "should enjoy this, should not enjoy that" or "global youth community" comment? ^_^ Leastwise it's not a "generalization" that makes assumptions about anybody's maturity, or forces own moralistic inclination on anyone else, eh?
Seriously, what broad sweeping generalization? Do we want to duke it out in a list of heroes duller than their antagonists versus a list of antagonists duller than heroes? |
Edited by - Winterfox on 13 Oct 2005 01:28:59 |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2005 : 02:38:52
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Uhm... what was this thread about again?
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2005 : 03:12:49
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Uhm... what was this thread about again?
C-Fb
I'm beginning to wonder.... I.E. Let's get this back to why Elminster can't die. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2005 : 03:13:55
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We have strayed somewhat from the original topic, and there is a danger of it getting ugly. Let's take it easy and get back to Elminster.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Kianna
Learned Scribe
USA
155 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2005 : 04:12:40
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Why would Elminster die in the first place? I assume he has longevity spells or something like that...
And who would be stupid enough to try to kill him? |
Huzzah! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2005 : 06:11:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Kianna
Why would Elminster die in the first place? I assume he has longevity spells or something like that...
Being a Chosen of Mystra makes him effectively immortal. But there have been hints about his passing...
quote:
Originally posted by Kianna
And who would be stupid enough to try to kill him?
Just about everyone has tried to kill Elminster... Being insanely powerful makes you more of a magnet for some people (particularly when you're carrying part of a deity's divine essence), and Elminster's happy meddling has earned him quite a few more enemies. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kianna
Learned Scribe
USA
155 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2005 : 14:03:07
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But seriously..... would you try it? Its like cheating on your driver's license test. I would never do it because with my luck I would get caught and not get my license.
I would never try to kill El because I would get caught (my luck again) and he would kill me.
There. :) |
Huzzah! |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2005 : 14:32:37
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Elminster's not going to die because the fans would complain until no end if he did. Everyone would then postulate on how he could have defeated his enemy and told the ways he could have and then say them again a million times.
Fact is, if Elminster sells books - Elminster lives on. Kind of like we have horrible sequels in the movies. Money does still rule the world.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Sage of Stars
Seeker
USA
59 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2005 : 15:39:44
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SirUrza,
you pose an interesting premise. Of course Elminster CAN die, as you say, but if he does not only will the Realms not be “the Realms” as we and more importantly as the buying public in general know it, but the detente role he and the Chosen play will be unfilled, and the various destructive forces (the Zhentarim, the Red Wizards, the Twisted Rune, scores of territory-hungry petty rulers, and so on and on and on) they have largely kept in check will have no “within the Realms-logical” reason for not being unleashed in earnest, with Realms (again, as we know them)-shattering results.
The attractiveness of the Realms, like that of all lasting fantasy settings, lies in it being a home for the dreams of its readers. No matter how violent it may become, no matter how many favourite characters and realms fall, it must hold some “golden moments” and attractive elements for us, or we cease to be fans.
Ed and I discussed this on a panel at a Worldcon (and later, chatting in a hallway, with Terry Pratchett), and we all agreed that for a fantasy ‘world’ to have any lasting appeal, it must provide some “nicer than real life” places, characters, and scenes for readers to fall in love with.
The D&D game play possibilities AND the fiction interest of the Realms are heightened when the focus is kept small: down to a few characters (your heroes, and their major opponents). Even in huge battles, or the rush toward them (as in Death of the Dragon, or Pratchett’s recent Thud!), scenes work best when seen over the shoulders of a few characters, interacting with a few other characters.
Ed has often talked at Gencons about how a “World War” situation in the Realms as we moderns think of it is very unrealistic (the various armed forces just have too many differences in aims, languages, cultures, races, and geography to forge stable, long-term alliances); any widespread so-called “world war” in the Realms would most probably arise in a domino chain-reaction of X fighting Y, refugees flee to borders causing fear and arming in Z, whereupon A (traditional foe of Z) attacks Z so as to strike before Z can get fully ready for war, and so on: in other words, the precise sort of situation that the Chosen and other “meddlers” (and Ed identified Larloch as one of those; they’re by no means all heroes, and it’s oversimplifying the Realms into distortion to call either the Chosen or the Harpers pure-white heroes) can be most effective in damping down.
I agree: I’d hate a post-apocalyptic Realms. Ed has hinted in the past that various Big Events lie ahead for the Realms, but he won’t (of course) whisper anything about what they might be. He HAS hinted at Elminster’s approaching passing, as you know.
Winterfox, you raise the possibility of the Realms stagnating if El and other balance-preserving characters aren’t removed. And yet, looking at the published fiction so far, I see it doing anything but, even if you take away every word written about large-scale warfare or doings of the gods. Good writers, such as Ed, and great writers, such as Terry (categorization that Ed agrees with, BTW), manage to spin entertaining stories about characters facing struggles both large and small. Scribe Rinonalyrna Fathomlin puts her finger on this, when she posts preferring the character-focused Rogue Dragons books over the grand-overarching-plot feel of The Last Mythal books.
The “Realms-shaking” focus is marketing-driven, and it’s rooted in the majority of readers favouring reading about royalty over reading about peasants, looking in on powerful wizards or witches or quasi-gods like TP’s Death rather than reading pages about blacksmiths hammering out horseshoes, and generally “being there” at moments of dramatic, usually violent importance (you cite George R.R. Martin’s Song of Ice And Fire series in one of your posts, and I offer it here as a perfect example of what I mean). It’s not going to go away (and neither is its, to borrow Winterfox’s term, “episodic” nature) - - and yet the novels focus only on a small slice of the imaginary life of the Realms. It’s a credit to writers like Ed, Elaine Cunningham, and Paul Kemp that we readers see more than just the “big fight, chase, and villains chortling” scenes of unfolding life in the Realms. We get to watch tender moments, hilarious pratfalls, whimsical moments, inner struggles (and again, “so on”).
Dargoth, you term Realms villains “rather cautious” because they haven’t tried to rule the world. Are all the villains you encounter in fiction that simple? Open, brute-force empire-builders are probably the easiest of all villains to predict and defeat (and probably best fit Winterfox’s “evil overlord” term, with the attendant cliches she laments). On a personal level, I can certainly attest that they’re the least interesting villains to write about. I’m much more interested in the “master manipulators” who hide in plain sight while others do their dirty work for them.
Your contrasting of Fzoul and Manshoon is very interesting. Ed described Fzoul in a recent Gencon panel as a “survivor and opportunist” who succeeds in the short term because he jumps ship to always back the winning horse of the moment, and ends up trusted by no one but atop the heap. With his eventual fall fast approaching.
Ed also described Manshoon as the brilliant head of the Zhentarim who succeeded beyond his wildest dreams, saw himself riding a stallion galloping out of control into certain destruction (with two churches clashing, the beholders making their bid for outright control, and fractious, ambitious wizards doing each other dirty rather than closing ranks to resist the other factions) and did the best he could to retire from the saddle and still somehow stay alive and yet on the scene rather than in hiding, to end up where he wanted to be: still powerful, but off the “target for everyone” pinnacle. Ed described Manshoon as someone who’s learned on the job and grown to know himself and his flaws better, as opposed to Fzoul who’s too busy congratulating himself over success after success due to his own cunning (he thinks) to take his own true measure.
Thelonius, Elminster and Khelben were described (by Ed Greenwood and Jeff Grubb) at a long-ago Gencon panel as very likely to be firm foes, if they didn’t both serve the same goddess. Ed has drawn back from Khelben in recent years, to give Steven Schend full room to grow the character as he sees fit (and I eagerly await the forthcoming Blackstaff novel), but I know (again, from what they’ve both said at Gencons) Greenwood and Schend have had several long telephone conversations about Khelben.
George Krashos hit the nail on the head in this drifting thread, posting about the nature (and lasting appeal) of heroic fantasy as a genre. No, Winterfox, he’s not missing the point. Nor is he being condescending, in holding an opinion that’s more politely stated and (ahem) far less of a generalization than your own comments about fantasy novels and evil overlords therein. (Not that I disgree with those comments, mind.)
Youthful generations have always rebelled against authority and the values of their parents, but the “evil is cool” and anti-hero cycle are stronger now than at any time post-World War II (oldtimers like Fred Pohl and Poul Anderson and Damon Knight tell or before they died told me) because of improved communications (largely the Internet) and thus, cross-oceanic SWIFT spreads of fashion, from Sailor Moon to Harry Potter, and hand-in-hand with it the spread of the communication of dissatisfaction: “angry young things” in Berlin now KNOW there are similarly “angry young things” in New York, L.A., Tokyo, London, and so on. There’s a general feeling among younger folk that the world is screwed up, people in power are going on screwing it up, and that they (the young) don’t have much brightness to look forward to, and are being shut out of any chance at changing things or themselves getting into positions of power. (The feeling isn’t new, but knowing it’s shared almost everywhere else is.)
None of that squashes George Krashos’s point: the enduring popularity of the heroic fantasy genre is its “hero tale” folk and fairy tale roots: that the good guys win. The problem we face with WotC/Hasbro is an inability (so far) to allow the bad guys to score large on-stage victories in Realms novels. The “big sellers” such as Rowling and Pratchett, and on the next rung down Jordan and Goodkind, and on the NEXT rung of the ladder down Martin, and then on the next rung Salvatore, only have to please one editor, and their sales give them a LOT of power - - and therefore room to take risks. Speaking of the field in general, smaller-sales writers pretty much have to follow the “good guys win” formula. Last time I looked at the real WotC sales figures, only Salvatore, Weis and Hickman as a team, and Ed Greenwood (in descending order) have ANY sort of sales weight, and therefore clout, in battles to stretch the horizons of what they can or cannot do in a book. Yet all of them have beefed, at various times, at what editors have done to their work. So the point Mister Krashos makes (far from being what Winterfox terms “way to miss the point”) stands.
El Magnifico Uno (I presume deliberately) jumps in and twists The Hooded One’s description of what Elminster is NOT into stating that it’s really a fitting description of Elminster is, and adds the tired “uber munchkin” comment that reveals he hasn’t read enough Realmslore to understand Elminster (who is a character of MIDDLING power in the Realms, more cursed by his role than super-powered, and a survivor largely because of his fellow Chosen and his goddess rather than through his own personal might). He has a goddess up his sleeve, yes, but she’s now something of a learning-on-the-job incompetent, as we saw in Elminster’s Daughter.
This is the same trap Winterfox leaps into in this thread, saying she doesn’t read about Elminster, but feels competent to (mis-) judge him (“Truly heroic and noble people are dull. There’s one reason why I don’t read Drizzt or Elminster.”) I’m sure if THO flips THAT post to Ed he’ll be amused to learn that Elminster is “truly heroic and noble” or “dull.” Or more likely he’ll just shake his head. I know, just as much as he does, how frustrating it can be to have your work judged by people who don’t bother to read it.
You might want to mend that omission, Winterfox, before you “duke it out” with Mister Krashos or anyone else.
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Edited by - Sage of Stars on 13 Oct 2005 15:41:58 |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2005 : 16:57:47
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Sage of Stars, uh... please consider using something called paragraphs. I'm sure that, on some level, it's an artistic/philosophical statement of some kind or something, but text blocks of doom make posts really hard to read.
quote:
Scribe Rinonalyrna Fathomlin puts her finger on this, when she posts preferring the character-focused Rogue Dragons books over the grand-overarching-plot feel of The Last Mythal books.
...but the Rogue Dragons trilogy is also about RSE events. Unless a Rage of Dragons and Sammaster don't qualify. IMO, I think it's possible for a story to be epic/world-shaking and still have fleshed-out characters. It's not as if I don't enjoy character-driven stories about small-scale events, but stagnation to settings does happen if something's kept static for too long. See Jean Grey's repeated resurrection, for example.
quote:
No, Winterfox, he’s not missing the point.
Was I not clear in my post that I thought he missed the point when be brought up real-life morals? Here:
George Krashos said:
quote:
Evil shouldn't be attractive, and evil 'winning' shouldn't be something we should be enjoying. And yes, I say that in expectation of the inevitable comments that 'life isn't like that' and 'bad things happen' and 'good and bad are yin/yang/part of life' etc. Whilst knowing all that, it doesn't mean I should be happy that it happens, otherwise I'd be upset that terrorist groups around the world aren't doing MORE to maim and kill innocents.
...yeah. Because enjoyment of evil/amoral characters in fiction is connected with cheering for terrorists in real life. (Just like playing D&D is Satanic! And playing video games turns you into a homicidal maniac! Whee.) Sure, not missing the point at all. And telling someone what they should or shouldn't enjoy isn't patronizing, condescending, or the least bit pushy. Right.
quote:
I know, just as much as he does, how frustrating it can be to have your work judged by people who don’t bother to read it.
I've read novels and various short stories containing Elminster (rather more than I should have, really; thankfully not all of them I had to pay for); not in a single one has Elminster made a real mistake or exhibited traits that are less than heroic or noble. (Being somewhat flirtatious to women and young girls, having loved multiple women, teasing people... uh, those don't make him any less noble or heroic in my eyes. Not genuine flaws. Show him being really selfish and causing, I don't know, an entire kingdom to fall, then maybe.) Liking none of them, I've chosen not to spend a single more cent on any more. Oh, and if I did, I'll likely be criticizing them some more, at which point I'll be told, "If you hate it so much, why buy it?" So either way, you see, I'm screwed.
Bloody hell, why do I bother? Parts of my post will be ignored, and for daring to be less than worshipful about some authors' work, things will turn out as usual. Look, Sage of Stars, don't bother posting massive paragraphs in reply to me. Just save yourself the time and energy, type, "Winterfox is wrong, malicious, and rude", wait for the choir to chime in agreement, and leave it at that, eh? I'll even do you the favor of not answering to such a post. :p
EDIT: Crap, messed up the tags. Because my post'll almost certainly be deleted or modified, Sage of Stars, I'll send a copy to you in PM. Whether you want it or not. Hee. |
Edited by - Winterfox on 13 Oct 2005 17:00:45 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2005 : 17:15:57
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| Folks, I don't like the direction this thread is headed in. I don't want to have to lock it, so let's stay civil and on-topic, and be careful with our replies to other people's points. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2005 : 18:51:02
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| I mostly agree with sage of stars(You`ve met BOTH Ed and Pratchett? I wish I were that lucky). I believe that Elminster is, essentially, a part of the realms. The place simply wouldn`t be the same without him. As to evil, a villain like Thrawn in the realms would be fantastic. That`s how I`ve always envisioned Manshoon, though he sadly has been pounded pretty thouroughly in the novels( oh well, one day he is going to kick Fzoul`s butt, I`m sure of it) |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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El Magnifico Uno
Learned Scribe
113 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2005 : 19:14:25
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Woohoo!! I got honorable mention in a really long post for being.. a putz??!!...  Awww that is sooo wrong! And used as a mere sharpening stone for the final knife thrust of a post to boot!!  ... Hmph! Well I'll happily admit that I haven't read every single bit of Elminster lore out there... But based off what I have read (TSR days) the guy couldn't lose, knew everything, was always right, always snookered the hottie, and was the quintessential Mary Sue.. So regardless of whether or not he has the power to slap down godlings, he has the "power of the Script" which places him (in my apparently dismal and lesser view) as a tired uber-munchkin... Given, most of that is based on authors' portrayals at the time, so it's quite possible that things may have changed for him... But for me, a large portion of FR lore (Elminster and the Harpers especially) is tainted by the unfortunate requirements of yester-year when the good guys wore the white-est of white hats, and the bad guys wore dunce caps... So suffice to say, I find it very hard to believe that Elminster will ever get burnt... And if he does, dollars to donuts he'll be making a messianc comeback, so he won't truly be dead-dead... |
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2005 : 22:50:34
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Okay, Winterfox, I’ll do as you suggest, and type:
“Winterfox is wrong, malicious, and rude.”
Hmmm. Perhaps it will sound better with the choir you mentioned.
As for wrong, I think so, but that’s just my personal opinion.
Malicious and rude, definitely, and I always wonder why the monitors jump on someone who responds to your rudeness instead of just squashing you.
As for your snide comment to Sage of Stars about using paragraphs, she did. I can see them quite clearly on my computer screen.
I’ve read all the FR novels and short stories published so far (I think), and I recall quite a list of Elminster making mistakes, being overconfident, misjudging people with disastrous results (and even apologizing!). Hardly Mary Sue material.
Having his behind rescued by the goddess of magic often, YES. But hasn’t Ed Greenwood said that the whole point of the Seven is seeing how that’s a mixed blessing at best?
So my answer to SirUrza about this whole thing would be: of course he can die. But if he does, I'd be looking for something really bad to happen to Mystra.
That might be good ro bad, but it certainly would change the Realms as we know it.
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2005 : 23:17:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Blueblade
I always wonder why the monitors jump on someone who responds to your rudeness instead of just squashing you.
Rofles. That's new -- mods jumping on people who respond to me. Since when?
Oh noes, I've been found out. I bribed the mods, didn't you know? |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2005 : 23:21:07
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| If Alaundo want's this open then he can reopen it, otherwise we're done. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Why Elminster Can't Die..
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