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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 00:04:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Apropos of kuje's (?) comment that the elemental planes are for the four Classical elements, I would point out that Classical China recognized five elements: water, earth, fire, metal, and wood.
I believe that the 3E Manual of the Planes discussed this as a variant cosmology. |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 00:07:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
For example, Chislev, the planet, is named for Chislev the god. He has an avatar that retreats to the center of the planet to use it as a wizard eye. Not only is that a ridiculous concept, but it ignores how the wizard eye spell operates.
I'm sorry, but there is no way I can think this plausible.
That? Ridiculous? Yes. No question ... at ... all! I'll save my five bucks for Secrets & Societies for Scarred Lands. (Five bucks? I Wish! No, I can't. That's 9th level. I Limited Wish!) |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 00:32:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Apropos of kuje's (?) comment that the elemental planes are for the four Classical elements, I would point out that Classical China recognized five elements: water, earth, fire, metal, and wood.
I believe that the 3E Manual of the Planes discussed this as a variant cosmology.
It would not surprise me if there were 5 elemental planes accessible from the pocket cosmology attached to the lands of Kara-Tur. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 04:04:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Apropos of kuje's (?) comment that the elemental planes are for the four Classical elements, I would point out that Classical China recognized five elements: water, earth, fire, metal, and wood.
I believe that the 3E Manual of the Planes discussed this as a variant cosmology.
It would not surprise me if there were 5 elemental planes accessible from the pocket cosmology attached to the lands of Kara-Tur.
I rather like that idea.
Although others have said that the Lot5R cosmology would work well with Kara-Tur -- this being an elemental philosophy based around the four prime elements and the void -- I disagree that void should have a placing. The void is strictly tied to Rokugan and doesn't have a basis in Kara-Turan cosmological dynamics.
That being said, Gray's suggestion is a great start for building a new elemental philosophy for Kara-Tur's cosmology.
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 15:00:38
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I was also thinking that if you wanted to place the plane of Wood in the FR cosmology proper, you could make it a demi-plane attached to the Celestial World Tree that connects the upper planes. I suppose you could even re-conceive the World Tree itself as sort of a transitive elemental plane of wood attached to specific celestial planes.
Who knows, you could even have it be one of the few remaining links to the plane of Faerie.
Such a plane could be filled with celestial treants. Rattatosks for sure. Celestial dryads and perhaps other fey and plant people.
The treant God Emmantiensien might hold sway there. Served by a cadre of treant paragons.
It wood be an interesting way to handle this concept in the FR cosmos. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 15:43:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
I suppose you could even re-conceive the World Tree itself as sort of a transitive elemental plane of wood attached to specific celestial planes.
That's actually what I was originally thinking -- almost Yggdrasil-like in function.
quote:
Who knows, you could even have it be one of the few remaining links to the plane of Faerie.
That's an intriguing perspective. The fact that the Plane of Wood no longer has such a prominent place among the elemental planes could reflect the fading of Faerie/Fey power in the multiverse.
quote:
Such a plane could be filled with celestial treants. Rattatosks for sure. Celestial dryads and perhaps other fey and plant people.
The treant God Emmantiensien might hold sway there. Served by a cadre of treant paragons.
Oh, you've gotta have the rattatosks  .
quote:
It wood be an interesting way to handle this concept in the FR cosmos.
I thinking you're barking up the wrong tree with that one   .
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2005 : 17:27:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Thureen Buroch
Well, I've come across this topic a lot in reading, but all I've been able to figure out about spelljamming is that its something Gnomes do to enchant ships to go into space. Its not described in 3E, which is what I play, but it sounds cool ...
Can anybody tell me what this Spelljamming is?
Oh yeah, I have read about the Giant Space Hamsters.
Ahem! Having unleashed this Five Element cosmology query, I now divert attention back to the topic of the scroll.
Has anyone yet explained to Thureen Buroch how a helm works?
A spelljamming ship's helm is a magical device, basically a chair in which a spellcaster sits and burns off spell levels to propel the ship.
Ships have a limited amount of fresh air, which can be replaced by dipping into a planetary or asteroidal atmosphere, and water, which can be scooped up from a lake or river (much to the chagrin of some peoples "on the ground" who want to keep their possibly limited air and water supplies for themselves).
Gravity is usually "normal" only along one plane (geometrically speaking) of a ship or planet(oid), but there are a few exceptions known.
Space is so vast that not all variations have yet been discovered, but anything which can be conceived probably has a representation somewhere in space, or in another plane of existence. Alternate prime material planes still exist, I think, but the scope of space is so large that spelljammers concentrate on this one, which includes Realmspace, Greyspace, and Krynnspace -- the three main worlds of D&D and their crystal spheres. I suspect that some alterante prime material planes are best accessed from certain spaces (alternate Krynn is probably accessed most easily from "our" Krynn, for instance).
I don't know (but would like to know) if any space-goers have yet found out what happens to a world which has a domain sucked into the Mists of Ravenloft. Is there a misty area where the prime realm used to be -- the result of a Plane Swap -- or is a barren area the result, or perhaps just a depopulation, the Demi-Plane of Dread supplying a copy of the land for a new domain within the mists. It is possible that Ravenloft takes its lands from an alternate prime material plane presently unknown to us. Those who are familiar with the former homes of Lord Soth and Vecna may have the answers to this line of inquiry. What used to exist in the Raurin Desert or Anauroch or the blasted lands of Narfell may have wound up somewhere in the Mists, or possibly in another demi-plane. ¿Quien sabe? |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 02:10:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
I don't know (but would like to know) if any space-goers have yet found out what happens to a world which has a domain sucked into the Mists of Ravenloft. Is there a misty area where the prime realm used to be -- the result of a Plane Swap -- or is a barren area the result, or perhaps just a depopulation, the Demi-Plane of Dread supplying a copy of the land for a new domain within the mists.
New domains, when taken from other worlds, are copies of the original. The mists do not destroy the land, or leave it barren. A copy of land is transfered to ravenloft and any beings caught within when the mists arrive are transported as well.
One example of this would be the creation of the domain of Sithicus. After Lord Soth was taken to the demiplane of dread, Dragaard Keep still existed in Dragonlance while its copy, known as Nedragaard Keep existed within Ravenloft.
I also believe one of the Ravenloft novels described the aftermath of Nova Vaasa being taken by the mists. Travelers discovered the inhabitants 'simply vanished' after one particularly foggy evening. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 02:13:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Realmslore
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
I don't know (but would like to know) if any space-goers have yet found out what happens to a world which has a domain sucked into the Mists of Ravenloft. Is there a misty area where the prime realm used to be -- the result of a Plane Swap -- or is a barren area the result, or perhaps just a depopulation, the Demi-Plane of Dread supplying a copy of the land for a new domain within the mists.
New domains, when taken from other worlds, are copies of the original. The mists do not destroy the land, or leave it barren. A copy of land is transfered to ravenloft and any beings caught within when the mists arrive are transported as well.
One example of this would be the creation of the domain of Sithicus. After Lord Soth was taken to the demiplane of dread, Dragaard Keep still existed in Dragonlance while its copy, known as Nedragaard Keep existed within Ravenloft.
I also believe one of the Ravenloft novels described the aftermath of Nova Vaasa being taken by the mists. Travelers discovered the inhabitants 'simply vanished' after one particularly foggy evening.
That answers my question about Lord Soth's domain. Thank you! I know very little about him or his place in DL. |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 02:16:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Realmslore
New domains, when taken from other worlds, are copies of the original. The mists do not destroy the land, or leave it barren. A copy of land is transfered to ravenloft and any beings caught within when the mists arrive are transported as well.
That's not always the case. The concept of domain creation is purely at the whim of the Dark Powers.
There have been recorded instances (in the RL canon) that tell of prime worlds and outer planes with gapping holes or black voids where a previously existing locale or region used to lay. The Mists are mysterious in their ways, and though we've learned of examples where places remain much the same after a visit from the Mists... there is no standard basis to relate to. What happens... happens.
quote:
One example of this would be the creation of the domain of Sithicus. After Lord Soth was taken to the demiplane of dread, Dragaard Keep still existed in Dragonlance while its copy, known as Nedragaard Keep existed within Ravenloft.
I also believe one of the Ravenloft novels described the aftermath of Nova Vaasa being taken by the mists. Travelers discovered the inhabitants 'simply vanished' after one particularly foggy evening.
Both accurate examples.
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Spelljamming
