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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 20:16:03
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quote: Originally posted by Kuje
quote: Originally posted by VEDSICA I'm not really sure if I understand really what Aeravin has become?Is he part Eladrin now?
Rich said on the WOTC boards that Aeravin is now a celestial.
Is he half celestial???Or a full blown celestial? |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 20:58:00
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quote: Originally posted by VEDSICA
quote: Originally posted by Kuje
quote: Originally posted by VEDSICA I'm not really sure if I understand really what Aeravin has become?Is he part Eladrin now?
Rich said on the WOTC boards that Aeravin is now a celestial.
Is he half celestial???Or a full blown celestial?
Rich said a celectial, not a half-celestial. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2005 : 17:59:05
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Now this is an interesting tidbit...
Rich Baker, in his Fey'd to Black: Richard Baker Interview talks about the new book. He doesn't offer up a lot of info, except for an interesting bit at the end:
quote: "The Last Mythal of Aryvandaar isn't Myth Drannor, as some folks have suggested on the message boards," he says. "It's a place called the Nexus in 2nd Edition lore." (The Nexus and the Gatekeeper's Crystal made their appearance in Forgotten Realms roleplaying game sourcebooks back in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical and Hellgate Keep.)
"The Nexus is a meeting-place of portals, a place where thousands of gates come together," Baker explains. "Step into the Nexus, and you can go anywhere you want. The doors in the Nexus are the means by which Malkizid is able to provide Sarya Dlardrageth with so many fiendish creatures for her armies. What Araevin discovers at the end of Farthest Reach is that this work of ancient Aryvandaar wasn't simply a benign construct for facilitating portal-building but instead a 'secret weapon of the Vyshaan lords,' a device intended to win the Crown Wars of 10,000 years ago. It has the potential to wreak untold destruction all across the Realms . . . and the mysterious Malkizid intends to do just that."
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 18 Jul 2005 18:00:06 |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2005 : 04:42:53
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quote: Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Now this is an interesting tidbit...
Rich Baker, in his Fey'd to Black: Richard Baker Interview talks about the new book. He doesn't offer up a lot of info, except for an interesting bit at the end:
quote: "The Last Mythal of Aryvandaar isn't Myth Drannor, as some folks have suggested on the message boards," he says. "It's a place called the Nexus in 2nd Edition lore." (The Nexus and the Gatekeeper's Crystal made their appearance in Forgotten Realms roleplaying game sourcebooks back in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical and Hellgate Keep.)
"The Nexus is a meeting-place of portals, a place where thousands of gates come together," Baker explains. "Step into the Nexus, and you can go anywhere you want. The doors in the Nexus are the means by which Malkizid is able to provide Sarya Dlardrageth with so many fiendish creatures for her armies. What Araevin discovers at the end of Farthest Reach is that this work of ancient Aryvandaar wasn't simply a benign construct for facilitating portal-building but instead a 'secret weapon of the Vyshaan lords,' a device intended to win the Crown Wars of 10,000 years ago. It has the potential to wreak untold destruction all across the Realms . . . and the mysterious Malkizid intends to do just that."
Thanks for the link Wools.I really like this interview.It was different than the other interviews that they do.I like getting some of Richard's thoughts.Also the little tidbit at the end here.Very interesting indeed.Can't wait. |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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monch9
Seeker
Poland
67 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 08:37:47
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You might want to head over to the WOTC boards Ask Richard Baker Thread. There's a bunch of spoilers and explanations coming out.
Monch
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Edited by - monch9 on 21 Jul 2005 08:38:21 |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 22:40:02
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I just finished the book this weekend, and I was throughly delighted. Farthest Reach reminds me of Greenwood novels like Spellfire, the Shadow of the Avatar series, and others. Such great references and hints at various facets of Realmslore. I noticed it in Forsaken House, and my radar has been on ever since. I was so tickled when Curnil exclaimed, "You're Storm Silverhand!" That was a classic moment for me.
The detail of the Dales and Cormanthor was just amazing. I love the Dales. We've been gaming in the Dales area and the surrounding region for almost 7 years. Farthest Reach was such a delight in that it showcases the region in a way that few other novels have done. The fact that an epic demonic invasion is taking place only makes it better.
Speaking of warfare, I'm very impressed with the chess match that is taking place in Cormanthor, Hillsfar, Sembia, and the Dales. Sarya making herself available for Hillsfar and Sembia, offering herself as a powerful ally, only to smash them both when they betray her. The Zhents got trounced by the elves, and rightly so. I think that situation was right on the money. The Zhent force was rabble compared to the seasoned bows and blades of Evermeets bladesingers and archers. No contest.
The demonic warfare is also fascinating. Looking at the Monster Manual, one might think, "What would happen if hundreds of these things were running amok on Faerun? And they can teleport without error at will... AND hurl magic... AND they're invinsible against mundane weapons!" This novel will show DMs how fiends fight and behave on the battlefield. That's another thing I really enjoy about some FR novels. There isn't any blatant quoting of any rulebooks in Farthest Reach, but it's one of those novels that can help a DM concerning fendish warfare and high-level combat/spellcasting.
So many great faces. The cast is just unbelievable. Of course, the major characters are all awesome. But we also have Scylua Darkhope, Fzoul, Mourngrym, and Storm Silverhand! And they're done well! This novel is one of those FR novels that really seems to speak to the reader who has read a lot of FR novels. The scenes with Scylua and Fzoul were, for me, very reminiscient of novels like Crown of Fire, where we have REAL FOES battling and working against the heroes, and these foes have the same power over me as Darth Vader does. I didn't see the novel as being similar to some Greenwood novels, but they do seem like sequels, or the continuing tales, of what Greenwood started with novels like Spellfire, Stormlight, and many others.
The Last Mythal series is just awesome. It's a good time to be an FR reader.
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"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2005 : 18:00:04
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Wow, I'm only about 2/3rds of the way through this novel but I just had to stop by and say how extremely impressed I am! This is the most Realms flavored novel i've ever read. It's packed to the brim with lore and detail and just oozes the Realms feel. I'm very happy to see the Zhentarim taking an active role and I never imagined that this book would have such an epic feel, wih Zhentarim, Hillsfar, Sembia, the Dalelands getting involved. The journey around the area and over to Aglarond is stunning and Richard has painted probably the best picture of the Realms that i've ever come across. This might not appeal to some newer FR fans but for those who know a little more about the Realms, then this is definately the book to make you squirm with delight!
Is this coming to produce a large-scale war? Afterall, someone stated in the book that this is the largest Zhentarim force advancement that has been seen since the Time of Troubles. I also like the way that it tells of Cormyr's weakened state and concerns of the return of Shade.
Outstanding! I'm very anxious of the outcome. Fantastic job, Richard! An amazing series so far. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2005 : 19:04:37
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I also liked that about this trilogy.It's epic feel.The areas visited.Etc...Etc....It truly is an amazing series so far.I'm going to go out on a limb here,and say that the third installment will be the icing on the cake so to speak.Most likely vaulting it into my number one best trilogy of all time.... |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2005 : 04:08:41
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Got Farthest Reach on Friday and I liekd it alot
I particularly enjoyed the parts that touched on Scyllua and Fzouls relationship. I have to say I think Rich has written the best story that features in the Fzoul and the Zhents, they still dont win in Farthest Reach but that is mostly due to a betrayl by non Zhents. Im Hoping we have seen the end of th "Bumbling and Incomptent" Zhent Sterotypes that we have seen in the past.
Im hoping that we'll see Fzoul and Scyllua get their hands on Maalthiir if not Hillsfar itself in the Last Gate |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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jameslt0
Seeker
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2005 : 09:26:26
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quote: Originally posted by Winterfox
I don't buy that, either. The Blood War is pretty much eternal. Practically nobody can make the tanar'ri work with the baatezu. It's less likely to happen than Lolth rejoining the Seldarine, or the elves and drow suddenly coming together to sing "Can't we all just get alooooong."
Or "Why Can't We Be Friends"
James |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2005 : 02:42:52
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I have to say that I am loving this series. Farthest Reach was as good as its predecessor, which I enjoyed a lot. I love the epic scope of the book, the various threads weaving at the same time, and huge amount of lore crammed in. It does feel very much grounded in the Realms and while the main characters could perhaps be fleshed out a little more, everything is set up for the final book. Just a pity we have to wait so long for it. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2005 : 10:48:36
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Well, I read it, finished it yesterday and, though I don't deeply regret spending time on it (there's a shortage of books where I'm at right now), I'm kind of glad I didn't have to cough up money to pay for my copy.
The character development looks a little more promising, although the shuffling of Araevin's adventuring companions make me think of EverQuest. First Grayth goes link-dead, so the group shouts "LF healer!"; Filsaelene joins, but has to go away on a Nagarfen guild raid. So another random paladin joins up after another "LFG" message. Yeah, I feel there's about that much emotional investment involved. Funnily enough, Araevin, Ilsevele and Maresa seem to care about these transient two (or about each other) no more than I do. It's almost as if the characters themselves are aware of how flatly written they are. Would've made a great satire. XD
The battles are still well-written, technically anyway, although I was approaching the point of questioning how many times the word "hellfire" or a variation thereof could be crammed into one scene. Some of the action sequences, like the one with the gray render, feel like fillers, though, and I can't shake the feeling that parts of the book are straight campaign transcripts. (My first thought when I came across "highly enchanted crossbow" -- or was it crossbow quarrels? Whatever -- was "What, +5? Wow.") I could've sworn that many of the spell descriptions are paraphrased right from source books, but that might just be me.
The one moment in the book that really excited me was when Araevin, now bereft of his distant Dladrageth ties, finds that Salaethil can now harm him in the Nightstar. I was really, really hoping that Araevin'd lost the battle of wills and Salaethil'd possess his body. That'd have been all kinds of interesting. So I was rather disappointed when it doesn't happen. Oh, well. I guess only paper-thin characters who have about ten lines each, like Grayth and Brant, can get hit by death and/or serious harm.
I liked the epilogue, which adds some personality to Fflar who, in the first book, had less personality than his sword did. It still feels a bit pasted on, but hey, better than nothing. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2005 : 14:34:57
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In all fairness... Araevin and his betrothed are supposed to tbe the heroes in the book, so I can't believe you really thought that Salaethil was going to win that battle.
I can agree with you that some of the characters seem paper thin, but then again, when you are writing a Realms shaking event trilogy, you have to include more heroes than a party of 4 - Too much character development for the fringe characters turns the book into a 700 page tome.
I thought the book was very well written... and that's my opinion, and you are rightly entitled to your own, no doubt.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2005 : 16:41:50
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quote: Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
In all fairness... Araevin and his betrothed are supposed to tbe the heroes in the book, so I can't believe you really thought that Salaethil was going to win that battle.
I did really think that. Not something that usually happens in a Realms novel, but there can always be a first. Besides, it's the second installment, so even if Araevin does lose, there's a whole book for him to struggle his way back. Besides, it'd make the story seem a lot less contrived toward favoring the heroes. (The interaction between a Salaethil-possessed Araevin and the rest of the cast would have been utterly cool.) Yeah, yeah, heroes are supposed to win, but they have to earn it, yes? And the more hopeless things seem, the greater their victory'd have been, IMO.
Oh, and it turns Salaethil into another egomanical, but ultimately tame and dull, minor antagonist. Typical.
quote: I can agree with you that some of the characters seem paper thin, but then again, when you are writing a Realms shaking event trilogy, you have to include more heroes than a party of 4 - Too much character development for the fringe characters turns the book into a 700 page tome.
On the other hand, I don't think it's a requirement to have many characters. Araevin's party doesn't even need paperdolls like Grayth, Brant, Filsaelene or Donnor, IMO (maybe the author has something in mind for the latter two; the first pair proved to be pretty superfluous). I hold the opinion that less is more -- don't you think that a handful of fleshed-out characters is more appealing than scores of vague, personality-void cardboards who are distinguished only remotely by their names? (I can't even remember their names, but that's neither here nor there.)
quote: I thought the book was very well written... and that's my opinion, and you are rightly entitled to your own, no doubt.
C-Fb
Sure. The grammar's fine, so's the spelling, and the prose is not incompetent. Within that definition, I agree that it's well-written. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2005 : 17:49:15
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quote: Originally posted by Winterfox
quote: Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
In all fairness... Araevin and his betrothed are supposed to tbe the heroes in the book, so I can't believe you really thought that Salaethil was going to win that battle.
I did really think that. Not something that usually happens in a Realms novel, but there can always be a first. Besides, it's the second installment, so even if Araevin does lose, there's a whole book for him to struggle his way back. Besides, it'd make the story seem a lot less contrived toward favoring the heroes. (The interaction between a Salaethil-possessed Araevin and the rest of the cast would have been utterly cool.) Yeah, yeah, heroes are supposed to win, but they have to earn it, yes? And the more hopeless things seem, the greater their victory'd have been, IMO.
That would have been a very interesting twist! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2005 : 23:58:53
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quote: Originally posted by George Krashos
quote: Originally posted by The Sage
quote: Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Grimmar? Is there any other recorded example of the folk of Shadowdale calling themselves this? Page 263 says the folk of Shadowdale prefer to call themselves this, after Castle Grimstead, but I can't recall ever hearing this term before.
You're right Wooly, that particular term doesn't sound familiar. Although, it does sound like a little random tidbit that Volo may have learned during his travels through the Dalelands.
Strangely though, VGttD has little on this. There may be something in th 2e tome on Shadowdale that came with the revised boxed set, but I can't look at the moment.
Kuje? Krash?
The only Grimmar that comes to mind is a totally different one - Grimmar from the "Ecology of the Ochre Jelly", a Cormyrean officer of the army - such as it was in those times.
-- George Krashos
I don't think there has been reference to the people of Shadowdale calling themselves "Grimmar" in previous Realmslore. In the novel this was explained with the connection to Castle Grim, and I think Rich just wanted to give us some "local flavour" with that term.
Krash, I still can't understand how you dig up all that lore - either your mind functions like a brilliant database, or perhaps you've developed a highly efficient computer software that searches through all previously published Realmslore |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then." -- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2005 : 00:59:19
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quote: Originally posted by Asgetrion
Krash, I still can't understand how you dig up all that lore - either your mind functions like a brilliant database, or perhaps you've developed a highly efficient computer software that searches through all previously published Realmslore
I know how I dig up my FR, Planescape, Dlance, and Ravenloft lore. I read it and memorize it and pull it up in my database of my brain. Most of the time I don't reference sourcebooks unless I want to make sure what I said was correct. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2005 : 02:54:12
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That's because you are the living embodiment of Candlekeep, Kuje!
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2005 : 03:01:10
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quote: Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
That's because you are the living embodiment of Candlekeep, Kuje!
C-Fb
That would rock. :) HAHA. But I have boggled people and they've asked, "How can you recall all of this stuff? Gods, your like a walking Realms encyclopedia."
But let's get back on topic. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 28 Aug 2005 03:02:42 |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2005 : 05:58:57
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Just finished reading Farthest Reach today. Awesome book...
I find it to be a good "middle book", revealing more and more to set up for the climax in the last book. Even though the "action" didn't pick up until midway through the book, there were many good fighting scenes such as the battle at the First Tower in Hillsfar. My favourite parts had to be the introduction of well known NPCs of the Realms like Scyulla Darkhope and Maalithir into the novel. Their appearance gave the novel a more "important" feel to it, as if actually showing that this event is impacting other people and places. This is what I want to read in a RSE type of novel.
However, I didn't like how there was absolutely no mention of Alustriel, Methrammar and the others that had fought the battle in the North Forest. It seems that with no mention, the battles there seemed like they were not important or did not even occur at all.
In conclusion, I enjoyed the novel and eagerly anticipating for the last of this amazing trilogy. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2005 : 21:55:25
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quote: Originally posted by Winterfox The character development looks a little more promising, although the shuffling of Araevin's adventuring companions make me think of EverQuest. First Grayth goes link-dead, so the group shouts "LF healer!"; Filsaelene joins, but has to go away on a Nagarfen guild raid. So another random paladin joins up after another "LFG" message. Yeah, I feel there's about that much emotional investment involved. Funnily enough, Araevin, Ilsevele and Maresa seem to care about these transient two (or about each other) no more than I do. It's almost as if the characters themselves are aware of how flatly written they are. Would've made a great satire. XD
*chuckles* I really have to agree with you here. Character development is not and never has been the highlight of the series (so far, anyway). It seemed VERY convenient to me that shortly after Filsaelene decides to go on her way, another cleric type of character (who was the apprentice of Grayth, no less!) shows up out of nowhere and says "Araevin Teshurr? I'd like to join you on your quest." This is approaching parody, people. It's contrived nonsense like this that has kept me from praising either book in this series all that highly, so far.
However, there is good news. I am a little over 200 pages into this book, and so far, it's been more enjoyable to me than the first book. The main party of characters--Araevin, Ilsevele, and Maresa--are still "barely there", but I *did* enjoy the interlude on the ship where Araevin and Ilsevele have a very emotional discussion about their future together. It seems only fitting to me that they aren't sure if they will spend their lives together after all, since in the couse of the novels they never seemed passionate about each other to begin with. Seriously--at the beginning of the novel, they are mentioned to have "made love", but it's written in a way that it seems about as routine for them as getting up in the morning, showering, and having breakfast. So routine that it's almost laughable. Is this romance poorly written...or is the author trying to sublty tell us that there really is no romance between them anymore? That's food for thought, and I never expected it.
I have to agree with Crust that this book is delightful in a way because now it's pulling all kinds of Realms characters into the picture, although I have reservations about how that's being done. Storm, in this novel, pales in comparison to the way Greenwood writes her, but perhaps that's because Baker doesn't want to "go all out" when using such a character who is not truly his own. Fzoul and Scyllua have been great additions to the novel (so far) as has Maalthiir of Hillsfar. However, much like some people are surprised at how easily demons and devils seem to work with each other in this novel, I'm not sure if I buy how easily Maalthiir and the Sembians are agreeing to Sarya's terms. We know Maalthiir and that Sembian Duncastle have at least some idea of who Sarya is, so why do they think a half-gold elf/ half-demon would make a better ally than some elf from Evermeet? Surely they aren't so stupid that they think a bargain made with such a creature is worth anything. My point here is that things seem (to me at least) to be coming together for Sarya WAY too easily. That's where the contrived nature of the story comes in again--the drow, along with Elminster and the Knights of Myth Drannor, are conveniently out of the picture to make things oh-so-much easier for Sarya.
The storyline by itself is kind of fascinating though. The book is a real page turner, and I respect Rich Baker in "tackling such an ambitious story", as he puts it in the dedication. There is a lot going on, but he manages to keep it together and keep it interesting for the reader.
If only the dialogue wasn't so flat and "matter-of-fact" that is not only bland but also gives little insight into the characters. It's such a contrast from the dialogue I just finished reading--dialogue from the stories of Ed Greenwood. Unlike in Greenwood's stories, the characters in this story talk like your average geek off the street, or, as Roger Ebert said in his recent Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith review, they sound like they are "channeling Berlitz". There is absolutely nothing special or memorable about the dialogue (so far).
One last thing: I'm gratful that Baker left out Methrammar Aerasume, Gaeradh, and their cringe-inducing, nausea-inducing romanctic dialogue. That alone brings the book up several notches on the enjoyment level. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams." --Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 01 Sep 2005 22:01:29 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2005 : 00:59:42
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quote: Originally posted by Asgetrion Krash, I still can't understand how you dig up all that lore - either your mind functions like a brilliant database, or perhaps you've developed a highly efficient computer software that searches through all previously published Realmslore
It's a bit like John Candy's character in the film "Splash" when he blurts out a comment in swedish to a security guard and after a few laughs he lets them into the secure area where Madison the mermaid is kept. When Tom Hanks comments that he didn't know his brother spoke swedish, John Candy replies along the lines of: "Well, when you've seen every swedish porn film five or six hundred times ..."
Basically, my free time is usually spent reading FR stuff. Even books I've read tons and tons of times - it's amazing how information you missed the first four or five times pops up or you appreciate some fine detail or nuance.
I also spent a long time cataloguing, photocopying and putting into binders all the 'magazine FR lore': doing that makes it stick in your head, let me tell you. The worst is when you know there is an FR reference 'somewhere' but can't recall exactly where: knowing where to look to confirm the stuff floating around in your noggin' is usually the hardest part of being a (to paraphrase Kuje) "FR junkie". Oh and Eric Boyd has sent me out on so many 'lore quests' over the years that I just keep running into peripheral stuff and think to myself - I gotta remember that one ...
And I as I commented to Kuje the other day by p-mail, it's great to see how Candlekeep and other similar places (although nothing holds a candle to Candlekeep - must be the wards of the Archsorcerer Torth!) have spawned more and more "FR junkies". Now if only we could organise a FR symposium here in Australia ...
Oh, and to stay on topic: I just picked up Farthest Reach yesterday and am 100 or so pages in and loving it. It's a darn good FR yarn (darn:yarn - get it?*runs and hides*). Seriously, very much enjoying it and I agree with the previous poster who said it's a page-turner. Nice stuff, Rich.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 02 Sep 2005 01:01:43 |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2005 : 13:38:21
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quote: Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
The main party of characters--Araevin, Ilsevele, and Maresa--are still "barely there", but I *did* enjoy the interlude on the ship where Araevin and Ilsevele have a very emotional discussion about their future together.
Agreed.
quote: Seriously--at the beginning of the novel, they are mentioned to have "made love", but it's written in a way that it seems about as routine for them as getting up in the morning, showering, and having breakfast. So routine that it's almost laughable.
Yeah, I giggled at that one. It was a passing mention, so matter of fact and so... obligatory.
quote: Is this romance poorly written...or is the author trying to sublty tell us that there really is no romance between them anymore? That's food for thought, and I never expected it.
Well, the flat characterization of practically everyone may well be a subtle message of... something, but I fail to see the purpose behind making an entire cast intentionally stilted and paper-thin. How optimistic are you? :p (I'm not very. But hey.)
quote: One last thing: I'm gratful that Baker left out Methrammar Aerasume, Gaeradh, and their cringe-inducing, nausea-inducing romanctic dialogue. That alone brings the book up several notches on the enjoyment level.
And that part makes me rather pessimistic about the theory of any hint that Araevin and Ilsevele have never loved each other all that much. There's already one bad romance; why not another? |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2005 : 18:34:59
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quote: Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Character development is not and never has been the highlight of the series (so far, anyway). It seemed VERY convenient to me that shortly after Filsaelene decides to go on her way, another cleric type of character (who was the apprentice of Grayth, no less!) shows up out of nowhere and says "Araevin Teshurr? I'd like to join you on your quest." This is approaching parody, people. It's contrived nonsense like this that has kept me from praising either book in this series all that highly, so far.
LOL... You know, I see your point here. On the other hand, this situation made me laugh because I took it as, "Look, experienced readers/gamers, this is a "tabletop/pen and paper" moment for you. Good gaming to all!" There's your parody.
quote: However, there is good news. I am a little over 200 pages into this book, and so far, it's been more enjoyable to me than the first book. The main party of characters--Araevin, Ilsevele, and Maresa--are still "barely there", but I *did* enjoy the interlude on the ship where Araevin and Ilsevele have a very emotional discussion about their future together. It seems only fitting to me that they aren't sure if they will spend their lives together after all, since in the couse of the novels they never seemed passionate about each other to begin with. Seriously--at the beginning of the novel, they are mentioned to have "made love", but it's written in a way that it seems about as routine for them as getting up in the morning, showering, and having breakfast. So routine that it's almost laughable. Is this romance poorly written...or is the author trying to sublty tell us that there really is no romance between them anymore? That's food for thought, and I never expected it.
I totally agree here, but I immediately put this into the "don't expect sex in the Realms... unless Greenwood wrote it " drawer.
quote: Storm, in this novel, pales in comparison to the way Greenwood writes her, but perhaps that's because Baker doesn't want to "go all out" when using such a character who is not truly his own.
I agree. However, Storm is done much better in Farthest Reach than she is in either the Avatar series or the *shudders* Return of the Archwizards books.
quote: We know Maalthiir and that Sembian Duncastle have at least some idea of who Sarya is, so why do they think a half-gold elf/ half-demon would make a better ally than some elf from Evermeet? Surely they aren't so stupid that they think a bargain made with such a creature is worth anything. My point here is that things seem (to me at least) to be coming together for Sarya WAY too easily. That's where the contrived nature of the story comes in again--the drow, along with Elminster and the Knights of Myth Drannor, are conveniently out of the picture to make things oh-so-much easier for Sarya.
Awesome points. I assumed that Maalthiir thought he was safe from Sarya, that she couldn't really do anything to him directly (maybe to his people, but does he care so much about that?). Of course, he learned that Sarya can harm him, or at least come darn close to it. That was a pretty cool spell duel in Maalthiir's tower. I needed that after having to swallow Gromph and Dyrr exchange fireballs in Annihilation.
I really liked watching the bargaining unfold. I do remember thinking, "Jeez, I'd rather side with the elves than the demons. That seems like the most logical choice." I think the bottom line is that Maalthiir would rather have demons inhabiting Myth Drannor than have elves inhabit the entire stretch of Cormanthor.
I took the absence of the drow as a sign that they were feeling powerless due to Lolth's silence. I would imagine that even Vhaeraun worshippers would also have taken somewhat of a hit from the whole debacle, especially concenrning their deity battling Selvatarm.
I was also wondering, "Man, where's Elminster? Couldn't he just teleport to the scene of the battle amidst a swarm of epuration spheres, casually puffing away, to unleash a dozen 'hanging spells' that instantly banish all fiendish creatures to the harshest of Abyssal layers, only to teleport away a moment later to right another Realm's-shaking wrong a thousand miles away?" That could have happened, I'm tellin' ya! It should have happened. I'm crossing my fingers for another series involving El and the Knights. Maybe that will fill in a few gaps.
quote: The storyline by itself is kind of fascinating though. The book is a real page turner, and I respect Rich Baker in "tackling such an ambitious story", as he puts it in the dedication. There is a lot going on, but he manages to keep it together and keep it interesting for the reader.
Well said. I'm loving this series.
quote: If only the dialogue wasn't so flat and "matter-of-fact" that is not only bland but also gives little insight into the characters. It's such a contrast from the dialogue I just finished reading--dialogue from the stories of Ed Greenwood. Unlike in Greenwood's stories, the characters in this story talk like your average geek off the street, or, as Roger Ebert said in his recent Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith review, they sound like they are "channeling Berlitz". There is absolutely nothing special or memorable about the dialogue (so far).
This is SO TRUE! I'm knee-deep in City of Splendors right now, and I'm sitting here saying, "Oop! This is Greenwood!" "Oop! Here's Cunningham!" I did the same thing with Cormyr: A Novel and Death of the Dragon. It's night and day. His style is very unique and, to me, fascinating. No other FR author puts me into Faerun like Greenwood.
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"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
Edited by - Crust on 03 Sep 2005 18:36:27 |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2005 : 23:57:36
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quote: Originally posted by George Krashos It's a bit like John Candy's character in the film "Splash" when he blurts out a comment in swedish to a security guard and after a few laughs he lets them into the secure area where Madison the mermaid is kept. When Tom Hanks comments that he didn't know his brother spoke swedish, John Candy replies along the lines of: "Well, when you've seen every swedish porn film five or six hundred times ..."
Reason #183 of Why We Love the Realms: It's swedish porn for George Krashos!
Seriously, I haven't laughed this hard at an analogy in years, and, while true, I certainly never expected anyone other than Ed or THO to put Realmslore and swedish porn into the same sentence... |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2005 : 12:41:08
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Glad to put a smile on your face Mr Schend. Now get back to work on "Blackstaff"!
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2005 : 22:45:24
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quote: Originally posted by George Krashos
Basically, my free time is usually spent reading FR stuff. Even books I've read tons and tons of times - it's amazing how information you missed the first four or five times pops up or you appreciate some fine detail or nuance.
I admire your dedication to Realmslore! If only I had the courage to tell my girlfriend (NE Half-Demon/Half-Halfling Rogue 5/Barbarian 11 ) that spending most of my free time reading FR stuff is not "Complete waste of time, better spent on concentrating on our relationship". She'd probably spank me... which I know that Good Ol' Wooly wouldn't mind...being the subject of spanking, I mean (but then again, he hasn't met my girlfriend ;) |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then." -- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2005 : 00:44:55
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quote: Originally posted by Asgetrion I admire your dedication to Realmslore! If only I had the courage to tell my girlfriend (NE Half-Demon/Half-Halfling Rogue 5/Barbarian 11 ) that spending most of my free time reading FR stuff is not "Complete waste of time, better spent on concentrating on our relationship". She'd probably spank me... which I know that Good Ol' Wooly wouldn't mind...being the subject of spanking, I mean (but then again, he hasn't met my girlfriend ;)
That's easily fixed - marry her! I do a lot more FR now that I'm married as compared to when I was single and engaged. When you are in your own home you can quite reasonably ask for "Asgetrion Time" and get it. Of course, my FR work has a bit more clout when she sees me being thanked in official products. I then tell her that "the Realms 'need' me ..." and I have urgent stuff to do for Ed/Eric/Steven et. al. Of course, my mother isn't quite so forgiving: if I had a $ for every time she's muttered "Are you getting paid for this stuff?", I'd buy Hasbro and own D&D.
As they say in the classics, everyone has got to have a hobby.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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jameslt0
Seeker
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2005 : 07:42:36
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quote: Originally posted by George Krashos
That's easily fixed - marry her! I do a lot more FR now that I'm married as compared to when I was single and engaged. When you are in your own home you can quite reasonably ask for "Asgetrion Time" and get it. Of course, my FR work has a bit more clout when she sees me being thanked in official products. I then tell her that "the Realms 'need' me ..." and I have urgent stuff to do for Ed/Eric/Steven et. al. Of course, my mother isn't quite so forgiving: if I had a $ for every time she's muttered "Are you getting paid for this stuff?", I'd buy Hasbro and own D&D.
As they say in the classics, everyone has got to have a hobby.
-- George Krashos
Atleast you think big. I probable would have said, I would buy Wizards of the Coast and own D&D. If I did that, I might even change the name back to the orginal.
James |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2005 : 00:07:22
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I was thinking about some of the comments about Araevin and how he acts, and his relationship with Ilsevele and the like, and the fact that he generally is very matter of fact about a lot of things, and something occurs to me. This series has been very concerned with portraying sun elves as more than just haughty elf supremisists. It has been really trying to show them as being essentially good, but different from other elves. One of the things that seems to come up is that Moon elves are more diplomatic, Wood elves are more passionate and emotional, and Sun elves are more reserved and aloof.
Much of how Araevin has been portrayed does tend to show him as good, but reserved and aloof. He doen't get passionate, and is almost absent minded about things that aren't directly related to the task at hand, i.e. his former adventuring company, politics in Faerun, etc.
I don't think any of this characterisazion is a lack of skill or the like on Richard Baker's behalf. I think this is a meant to show the difference between the various elves and the difference between how elves think and see things and how humans and other races do. |
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