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ShayneT
Acolyte
3 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Jun 2005 : 03:52:04
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I have a question about fires. Rules exist for having a character catch on fire, and for having a character enter an area of extreme heat. What happens if a character is forced to enter a fire directly?
For example, a character is in a burning house and has to run through the wall of flames to get to the people he has to save on the other side? How much damage does he take, and are some fires hotter than others?
Also, what effect do spells have on fires? Do cold spells have a chance to quench fires? The rules say that instantanous fire spells can't set you on fire, so I'd imagine that the inverse would be true. But what about spells like sleet storm, or summoned water elementals? Water elementals have the ability to quench fires of large size or smaller. So what happens if they meet a bigger fire? Could several of them work together to quench a larger flame?
And do you use the fire elemental chart to determine the size of a nonmagical flame?
I was just wondering what resources a standard party would have when attempting rescue work. Do they have any options other than the line of men carrying buckets of water or sand?
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Thureen Buroch
Learned Scribe
169 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2005 : 02:34:38
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If a character is forced to enter a fire directly, they take 3d10 points of damage per round. (I took that from "Manual of the Planes." That's how much damage you take each round while on the Plane of Fire.) I don't know about some fires being hotter than others. That would be something to make up as a DM! 
I'd have to agree that instantaneous cold spells cannot quench flames. Sleet Storm extinguishes any unprotected flames, and has a 75% chance to extinguish protected flames.
I don't think that multiple water elementals working together could put out flames larger than large size. After all, if they could, then, by the same logic, a huge water elemental could put out a larger flame than a small one. If you do, however, want multiple water elementals to work together to put out larger flames, then you'd need 48,000 pounds of water elementals (the weight of two elders) to put out a huge fire, 96,000 for gargantuan, and 192,000 pounds for a colossal fire. A fire in a fireplace would be considered medium, a bonfire would be large to huge, a fire taking up a whole room (20ft.X20ft.X20ft.) would be gargantuan, and eight times this would be colossal.
Finally, about putting out a fire. I'll have to think on that one, and do a little research, to make it a little more realistic. In the meantime, there are a few things to think about putting out a fire:
Sand works better than water.
Water doesn't work at all in some cases like oil fires.
The distance between the sand/water source would make a difference.
The number of people helping would make a difference.
And, of course, the size of the fire would make a difference.
Hope this helps. |
Goblins? *Slash* *Scream* *Thunk* What goblins? |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2005 : 02:55:45
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As per the SRD 3.5
"Catching On Fire
Characters exposed to burning oil, bonfires, and noninstantaneous magic fires might find their clothes, hair, or equipment on fire. Spells with an instantaneous duration don’t normally set a character on fire, since the heat and flame from these come and go in a flash.
Characters at risk of catching fire are allowed a DC 15 Reflex save to avoid this fate. If a character’s clothes or hair catch fire, he takes 1d6 points of damage immediately. In each subsequent round, the burning character must make another Reflex saving throw. Failure means he takes another 1d6 points of damage that round. Success means that the fire has gone out. (That is, once he succeeds on his saving throw, he’s no longer on fire.)
A character on fire may automatically extinguish the flames by jumping into enough water to douse himself. If no body of water is at hand, rolling on the ground or smothering the fire with cloaks or the like permits the character another save with a +4 bonus.
Those unlucky enough to have their clothes or equipment catch fire must make DC 15 Reflex saves for each item. Flammable items that fail take the same amount of damage as the character. "
A character can run though a wall of not magical flames and not catch of fire, if makes the save. In real world clearly some fires are hotter and more dangerious then others, however in D&D a fire is a fire (mundane or magical).
There are spells that can reduce fire, Cone of Cold, Polar Ray and Ice Storm are clearly spells that will reduce mundane fire, though they are written as combat spells there is nothing preventing the spells directed at fire (object).
Other spells such that make water, control weather in other ways (wind). Even moving earth can douse a fire.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Thureen Buroch
Learned Scribe
169 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 17:22:55
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Here are some house rules you can use about putting out fires.
A fire spreads through a wooden structure or forest at a rate of 1 foot per second in all directions.
A fire spreads through oil at a rate of 5 feet per second in all directions.
A wood fire can be put out with water or with sand. Sand or earth gives a +5 bonus to the dexterity checks made to put out the fire.
An oil fire can only be put out with sand or earth, and these materials do not provide a bonus for putting out an oil fire.
And area covered with sand or earth will not start to burn again.
A dexterity check is required to put out a fire. The check result is the number of 1 ft. by 1 ft. areas of fire you put out.
Putting out a fire in this manner requires a full round action and a source of water or sand or earth within 5 ft. If this source is more than five feet away, you will have to move back and forth between the fire and the source of water, sand, or earth. If this movement allows you to only make a standard action to put out the flames, you take a –3 penalty to your dexterity check. If it only allows a move equivalent action, you take a –10 penalty. If you have a chain of people (one person per five feet between the fire and source of water, earth, or sand), you don’t take a penalty.
Finally, because fire can spread, the fire might spread faster than you can put it out.
I made these up, and they may not be very accurate, but I hope this helps. |
Goblins? *Slash* *Scream* *Thunk* What goblins? |
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2005 : 20:47:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Thureen Buroch
Here are some house rules you can use about putting out fires.
A fire spreads through a wooden structure or forest at a rate of 1 foot per second in all directions.
A fire spreads through oil at a rate of 5 feet per second in all directions.
A wood fire can be put out with water or with sand. Sand or earth gives a +5 bonus to the dexterity checks made to put out the fire.
An oil fire can only be put out with sand or earth, and these materials do not provide a bonus for putting out an oil fire.
And area covered with sand or earth will not start to burn again.
A dexterity check is required to put out a fire. The check result is the number of 1 ft. by 1 ft. areas of fire you put out.
Putting out a fire in this manner requires a full round action and a source of water or sand or earth within 5 ft. If this source is more than five feet away, you will have to move back and forth between the fire and the source of water, sand, or earth. If this movement allows you to only make a standard action to put out the flames, you take a –3 penalty to your dexterity check. If it only allows a move equivalent action, you take a –10 penalty. If you have a chain of people (one person per five feet between the fire and source of water, earth, or sand), you don’t take a penalty.
Finally, because fire can spread, the fire might spread faster than you can put it out.
I made these up, and they may not be very accurate, but I hope this helps.
I would bring up the point that your rules only apply to fires on horizontal surfaces. Water works much better on things like walls and ceilings. Also water can be splashed on walls near the fire to retard its expansion.
For non oil based fires: Earth and sand only suffocate the fire, while water both suffocates the fire and cools the material bringing it below ignition point.
My point is that I would not necessarily give earth and sand a bonus to put out a fire in all circumstances. Just as I would not allow water to extinguish all flames.
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Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2005 : 21:02:36
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quote:
A fire spreads through a wooden structure or forest at a rate of 1 foot per second in all directions.
In a forest yes, there is a lot of tinder, deadfall and sundry to catch, as well as exposure to wind and free-flow of air to promote it.
In a structure, not unless there is something like sawdust(Piles, not just incidental) or other flammables to promote that fast of spread. |
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2005 : 21:17:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Forge
quote:
A fire spreads through a wooden structure or forest at a rate of 1 foot per second in all directions.
In a forest yes, there is a lot of tinder, deadfall and sundry to catch, as well as exposure to wind and free-flow of air to promote it.
In a structure, not unless there is something like sawdust(Piles, not just incidental) or other flammables to promote that fast of spread.
Talk to any fireman about how fast fires can spread through a house. You know all that nice aged wood that has been drying for years under a nice roof. Even without the benifit of modern chemical accelerants, fires once they reach a certain level of intensity will travel faster than a person can run. Even in cities, they form fire-storms where the surrounding air is sucked in and feeds the expansion at an explosive rate.
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Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
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Fires
