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Aelf
Acolyte
USA
46 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jun 2005 : 00:15:00
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In our last session, it was noticed that feat prerequisites are required both to obtain the feat as well as to use it. We were obviously playing by the first rule, but not by the second.
Here's a typical situation: Monk with dex 13 and the defensive throw feat chain gets enlarged. Since his dex drops to 11 none of those feats should work.
As I try to run enemies with (at least) as much tactical precision that my players do, this is bound to cause issues as they are scrambling to find efficent ways to drop opponent's dex and int scores.
Given the situation, I ask if other DMs have faced it as well as advice on dealing with it. I can 'silently' increase the stats of major villans, but cannot do so to typical monsters without causing a lot of grief. Also, while recurring opponents with devious minions are bound to try and counter or duplicate the party's stat-reducing tactics, I don't see it as being typical for most encounters.
Confused in Cormyr,
Aelf
A bard of the realms
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Regards,
Aelf, a bard of the Realms |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2005 : 02:09:11
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One of the things I do to discourage players from using "cheap" tactics, is I use them right back, until the player call for a truce or stop using them.
Had a couple of players that loved to use Wounding weapons, that stopped shortly after all encounters started to have all foes with the Wounding property on all on their attacks. |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2005 : 16:28:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Aelf
In our last session, it was noticed that feat prerequisites are required both to obtain the feat as well as to use it. We were obviously playing by the first rule, but not by the second.
Here's a typical situation: Monk with dex 13 and the defensive throw feat chain gets enlarged. Since his dex drops to 11 none of those feats should work.
As I try to run enemies with (at least) as much tactical precision that my players do, this is bound to cause issues as they are scrambling to find efficent ways to drop opponent's dex and int scores.
Given the situation, I ask if other DMs have faced it as well as advice on dealing with it. I can 'silently' increase the stats of major villans, but cannot do so to typical monsters without causing a lot of grief. Also, while recurring opponents with devious minions are bound to try and counter or duplicate the party's stat-reducing tactics, I don't see it as being typical for most encounters.
Confused in Cormyr,
Aelf
A bard of the realms
Your players shouldn't be aware of any NPCs stats, feats, abilities, etc. The way I look at it, if they are focused on lowering the INT or DEX of every opponent, they will often be wasting their time. Additionally, each round they spend reducing ability scores is a round they don't spend reducing hitpoints. There's give and take in any encounter. In the case of a recurring npc, the players may have figured out what feats, abilities, etc, were used and figured out a way to counter it, however, did the characters figure it out? If they immediately try to lower the DEX of a character who ate them up with Weapon Finesse in a prior encounter, remind them that they are using out of game knowledge for in game purposes. If the characters get together and talk about tactics after a battle and decide on what they could have done better, then I have no problem with them countering an NPC's attacks when they face him again. |
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Grunker
Acolyte
Denmark
37 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2005 : 19:53:17
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About the wounding thing, you're the DM, just don't give them acces to wounding weapons?
As for the feats, I play by the first rule. It's easier to handle, and you don't have to keep track of all the feats all the time.
It solves your problem to obviously.
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"And on the pedestal these words appear: My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works ye Mighty, and despair!" - Percy Shelley |
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Thureen Buroch
Learned Scribe
169 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 22:26:34
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According to PHB, a feat's prerequisite is "A minimum ability score, another feat or feats, a minimum base attack, a skill, or a level that a character must have in order to acquire this feat." This means that you can still use the feat even if you don't meat the prerequisite anymore.
My rule, though, is that you have to have the prerequisite to use the feat. After all, it's going to be hard to use a Power Attack if you can't find much strength to put behind the blow anymore ... |
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Arlenion
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 23:39:38
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I am not certain about 3.5 edition, but in third you have to have the pre-requisites to use the feat. I remember reading a character's stats on wizards who lost access feat( dodge) because of the Half-Golem template, due to lower dexterity.
He is in http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20031207a |
Edited by - Arlenion on 01 Jul 2005 23:43:28 |
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Aelf
Acolyte
USA
46 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2005 : 00:54:56
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From the 3.5 PHB p87 (Prerequisites):
"Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality in order to select or use that feat. ... A character can't use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite. For example, if your character's Strength drops below 13 because of a ray of enfeeblement spell, he or she can't use the Power Attack feat until the prerequisite is once again met."
d20 SRD:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#prerequisites
"Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite.
A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite"
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Regards,
Aelf, a bard of the Realms |
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Macresto
Acolyte
Denmark
17 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 12:56:33
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In my view there is no problem at all. It is creative use of your characters skills - and it should be allowed. I for one actually encourages my players to be creative. The most rewarding in a session is when you are surprised by an action you didn't see coming.
You could give the opponents saving throws if that's not the case at the moment.
Some of the rules in the game are obviously out of balance, but then you simply adjust them.
I remember a session many years ago. I was playing a mull gladiator in Darksun. We encountered a very powerfull priest or whatever. anyway, he had this special Darksun version of stoneskin, so I could not harm him - even though I had 21 in str. Then I simply grabbed him and forced him down and started to hit him in the ribs for as long as it took for the spell to expire. Was that bending the rules ? No of course not.
All rules, rpg or reallife, follows the principle of the running water in a stream. (setup an obstacle and the water will flow around it). As this applies to the real world it should apply to rpg as well. |
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House Rules for Feat Prerequisites
