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Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Jun 2005 : 19:25:22
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I have a player who is a Psychic warrior, and his favorite psionic is Vigor. At 3rd level that makes him have a few extra hit points. I was looking further into the future, and i notice that if he sticks to this concept, as he has stated, of using his psionics primarily as a HP booster through vigor that he will be able to add 185 temp HP at 10th level. And this is if he doesn't modify his Wisdom over the levels.
THAT is going to be a pain, especially as the rest of the party is not going to be HP monsters. Wizard with con negative, Rogue and poor HP rolling Cleric. The Psycic warrior already has over 30HP and with the ability to add 15 more puts him at more than double the entire party's combined HP.
Suggestions?
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Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2005 : 19:56:45
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My first suggestion is to very, very carefully check the math involved. In order to add 185 extra hit points, the character needs to spend 37 power points on a single use of vigor, because these temporary hit points don't stack with each other. That, or the psychic warrior needs to keep using vigor as his hit points are depleted.
Other suggestions include occasional uses of dispel psionics and null psionics field, both of which will make the power quite useless. There are also poisons and diseases (psionic or otherwise) which attack Constitution, something this player probably doesn't pay much attention to thanks to the ridiculous increase in hit points. Heck, even a hold person spell can plant a high hp character in the ground given the right tactics.
The point is that high hp need not be anathema to your campaign. Just understand that there are more ways to weaken or kill a character than simply depleting his hit point total, and then find ways to remind the player of that as well. Tactics will probably change to match that philosophy on their own. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2005 : 20:02:51
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It is not like the PC can grant him/herself 185 temp points at one time (or should not be doing so) so should not be as much a problem as you are concerned about. Depending on party make up the character most likely will be in front lines and will take more damage then others.
Much like a fighter taking the front line with better hit points to provide defense for the Wizard whom has much lower hit points.
Also if Vigor is used as much as you fear the PC will not be using other powers. It should be balanced, as much as the rules are. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 21 Jun 2005 20:05:09 |
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2005 : 20:18:19
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It's not that he can do it at one time, but he can add them at 50hp a pop. That is a lot of spare HP floating around, and he can continue to do this, several times.
This current group the 'front lines' is just the psychic warrior. The super brave rogue hides behind the mage. And the cleric who is the party healer, is our secondary backup fighter. He is a cleric of Oghma, not bad, but he is focused all of his character on expanding his knowledge related skills and feats. His armor isn't great, and because of he low strength(10), he can't wear heavy armor, say like chain mail, without being encumbered.
Perhaps I am making too much of this. We will see.
Garen, thanks for reminding me about the simple things like hold person, and dispel... |
Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2005 : 22:52:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Fletcher
Garen, thanks for reminding me about the simple things like hold person, and dispel...
When the direct approach is out, never forget the indirect approach.  |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2005 : 02:02:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Fletcher
Garen, thanks for reminding me about the simple things like hold person, and dispel...
When the direct approach is out, never forget the indirect approach.
But, but, it is more fun to smash something into submission than to feint away at it til it gives up in frustration. 
Aye, a DM has many tools at their disposal. In one campaign, I didn't notice that alot of the AC improving loot was going to one PC, who ended up with really really high AC (they all stacked), but I taught him that Ranged Touch Spells can HURT ALOT.  |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2005 : 16:31:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
quote:
Originally posted by Fletcher
Perhaps I am making too much of this. We will see.
I think you'll find that to be the case, 50 extra hitpoints is far less imbalancing than an AC of 40+, which is what I'm dealing with right now, or a maximized wand of fireball. Hmmm, I'll send 60 goblins to attack the wizard and that'll keep him busy for 2 or three rounds...
Eeep!  40+ AC? What level are you players?
Ever think of using sunder? That one always pisses of players. "What do you mean he shatters my shield?"
As for the wand....Spell turning, spell turning, spell turning. |
Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2005 : 16:47:21
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I'm thinking this may not be as bad as you might think. There are many places to poke at them that will still keep them jumping.
1) Poison/Disease. What happens if you keep whaling away at the PW's Con and Str?
2) Non-damage nuetralization, think Charm/Dominate, think web, Ray of Enfeeblement, Daze, HOld Person,etc...
3) Limited use magics on the NPC side. Maximized Magic Missle is nasty and will be used up once cast on the PW, as is a Necklace of Fireballs (which can conveniently be scaled up or down, and can even be used up before the PC's get there hands on it.)
4) Figure the NPC's will fight smart, flanking, sneak attacks, Ranged Weapons, etc...
Just my 2 cp.
Forge |
Edited by - Forge on 23 Jun 2005 16:48:25 |
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Thureen Buroch
Learned Scribe
169 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 18:05:49
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| Fletcher, I don't know what version of DnD you're playing, but if you're using the 3E Psionics Handbook, you've got it all wrong. Vigor allows the user to gain 3 temp HP per caster level, with a maximum of 18 temp HP. Additionally, it does not stack with (add up with) other temp HP, including other uses of Vigor. Therefore, he can gain 18 temp HP, not 185. |
Goblins? *Slash* *Scream* *Thunk* What goblins? |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 18:29:15
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| In Expanded Psionics Handbook the bump is 5 points per power point I believe. (Just bought it 2 days ago and my 10 year old promptly confiscated it so I havn't looked too close.) |
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Thureen Buroch
Learned Scribe
169 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2005 : 16:29:06
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quote:
In Expanded Psionics Handbook the bump is 5 points per power point I believe. (Just bought it 2 days ago and my 10 year old promptly confiscated it so I havn't looked too close.)
Is there a maximum number of temporary hit points allowed by the power still (I guess now it would probably be 30)? |
Goblins? *Slash* *Scream* *Thunk* What goblins? |
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2005 : 20:34:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Thureen Buroch
Fletcher, I don't know what version of DnD you're playing, but if you're using the 3E Psionics Handbook, you've got it all wrong. Vigor allows the user to gain 3 temp HP per caster level, with a maximum of 18 temp HP. Additionally, it does not stack with (add up with) other temp HP, including other uses of Vigor. Therefore, he can gain 18 temp HP, not 185.
i am playing 3.5 and here is the text from the book. I don't see any limitation other than that which is put on by being a specific level.
Power Point Limit: Some powers allow you to spend more than their base cost to achieve an improved effect, or augment the power. The maximum number of points you can spend on a power (for any reason) is equal to your manifester level.
Any way the description out of the psionics handbook is as follows:
Vigor
Psychometabolism
Level: Psion/wilder 1, psychic warrior 1
Display: Material and olfactory
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 min./level
Power Points: 1
You suffuse yourself with power, gaining 5 temporary hit points. Using this power again when an earlier manifestation has not expired merely replaces the older temporary hit points (if any remain) with the newer ones.
Augment: For every additional power point you spend, the number of temporary hit points you gain increases by 5.
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Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2005 : 20:41:48
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Well one area to use to whittle down the character is to have your goons attack in waves. Get him to pump up his HP with vigor only to have them fade without being used before wearing off. That should hopefully condition him to use only what is needed. Bear in mind, the temporary HP won't heal any damage suffered before, someone who is granted temp HP will still be just as damaged as before they got them.
Oh and mass trauma may still apply when taking temp HP in account. So if you have a 10hp PW and he bumps another 30HP, he could STILL potentially get gakked by a 30hp attack. |
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2005 : 20:54:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Forge
Well one area to use to whittle down the character is to have your goons attack in waves. Get him to pump up his HP with vigor only to have them fade without being used before wearing off. That should hopefully condition him to use only what is needed. Bear in mind, the temporary HP won't heal any damage suffered before, someone who is granted temp HP will still be just as damaged as before they got them.
Oh and mass trauma may still apply when taking temp HP in account. So if you have a 10hp PW and he bumps another 30HP, he could STILL potentially get gakked by a 30hp attack.
I have thought of this. The other thing is to surprise him so that he has to make concentration checks to get the power to take effect. This one is a real doozy for all spell casters. An archer waiting to disrupt a caster is a very useful tool. |
Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2005 : 21:05:41
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I don't recall the exact quote, but something Elminster said to Narm once about the best way to deal with an opposing caster...
"Throw rocks"
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2005 : 21:19:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Forge
I don't recall the exact quote, but something Elminster said to Narm once about the best way to deal with an opposing caster...
"Throw rocks"
 snort snort
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Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
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Another Psionic Question
