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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Oct 2007 : 16:32:37
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Jaraxle is definitely Chaotic Neutral. Chaotic is why he stayed a favored of Lloth for so long, and Neutral because he does whatever the hell he likes with little thought as to how it is viewed by others.
quote:
From the Dungeon Master's Guide v3.5, pg. 105
Chaotic neutral is the best alignment you can be because it represents true freedom from both society's restrictions and a do-gooder's zeal.
I believe that describes Jaraxle to a "T"
I have to agree that he is CN. I think that, while Jarlaxle may do good, it is not because he is good. Rather, life to him is like a grand experiment and he just likes to see what buttons he can push. He has had such a long life and he is beginning to see it as pointless. By making changes in others and dictating events, he is trying to make his life interesting again. I think that he is looking for meaning in his own existence. |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness. 
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Ranin
Seeker
88 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2007 : 06:10:01
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Actually if Jarlaxle's stats were to be shown, it would say that he is chaotic evil. I have found that characters who are'nt necessarily overly malicious tend to be labeled evil.
I personally agree that he would be shown as neutral evil in the earlier stories such as the Legacy of the Drow series and the Silent Blade. I the legacy series he is more neutral evil, then he shifts to chaotic evil in the Silent Blade then towards the Sellsword Trilogy he moves to Chaotic Neutral. |
Listen to the silence of the wilds, in there lies the wisdom of ages. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2007 : 19:25:09
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| I wonder why people argue so much about Jarlaxle's alignment, but not the alignments of other characters. I mean, he HAS an official alignment. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Ranin
Seeker
88 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2007 : 07:25:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I wonder why people argue so much about Jarlaxle's alignment, but not the alignments of other characters. I mean, he HAS an official alignment.
I agree. I think the whole alignment thing is a little over-used. People are who they are in this world, and they are who they are in the Realms. |
Listen to the silence of the wilds, in there lies the wisdom of ages. |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 18:37:45
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| Neutral evil... |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 19:04:28
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| His alignment is given as evil in his stat block in the FRCG (p. 251). |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 13:44:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I wonder why people argue so much about Jarlaxle's alignment, but not the alignments of other characters. I mean, he HAS an official alignment.
Yes but they see that hat and the gleam in his eye and think, "that's not such a bad chap, he can't really be evil".
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2008 : 14:23:09
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Yes but they see that hat and the gleam in his eye and think, "that's not such a bad chap, he can't really be evil".
Probably. And yes, even after 100 years, he's still evil. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2008 : 08:48:00
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| He's been Neutral Evil from day one and I for one see no reason why he should not be. Then again, I hardly care for definite alignments in one person 24/7 and a lifetime. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2008 : 08:56:08
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| CHAOTIC NEUTRAL |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2008 : 00:43:46
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| Truthfully, in some ways Jarlaxle strikes me as an evil drow version of Captain Jack Sparrow. The same resourcefullness and ability to get you into a total mess that will beenfit him and him alone with just a few 'innocent' words. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2008 : 20:05:56
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quote:
Originally posted by thomas b.
the notorious mercenary from the darkelf trilogy.he is cunning and devious.although some of his actions leave you questioning his alighnment.is he good.or perhaps he is a follower of vhearun.i would like to know your opinions on this.
-I voted Evil, plus I really can't stand thec munchkin. 
BRIMSTONE  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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draco
Acolyte
3 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2008 : 08:14:02
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i hope im not dredging up old posts apologies if so
ive noticed alot of quoting from "official" sources and the thing with anything official its still just one or two people and just because its official doesnt mean its correct
i think jarlaxle is chaotic neutral neutral because hes a very free minded person and he will do "whatever" it takes to keep his freedom which is where the chaotic part fits in if it would serve his purposes i think he would stab his own mother in the back which would seem an evil act
and the fact that he let artemis, drizzt and catibrie go free doesn't mean hes good obviosly he can see they have qualities that he could use at some point and jarlaxle always has atleast 1 backup plan |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2008 : 11:48:13
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| Is Jarlaxle good or evil? Yes |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2008 : 15:23:23
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quote:
Originally posted by draco
ive noticed alot of quoting from "official" sources and the thing with anything official its still just one or two people and just because its official doesnt mean its correct
No, but in this case the official sources are pretty consistent. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36814 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2008 : 15:59:41
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quote:
Originally posted by draco
ive noticed alot of quoting from "official" sources and the thing with anything official its still just one or two people and just because its official doesnt mean its correct
Um, actually, when the publisher of a character makes consistent official statements about that character, it is correct. Just because you don't agree doesn't make the company wrong. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31792 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2008 : 23:29:08
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quote:
Originally posted by draco
i hope im not dredging up old posts apologies if so
ive noticed alot of quoting from "official" sources and the thing with anything official its still just one or two people and just because its official doesnt mean its correct
If it's information that they've worked into canon, then it's correct and official in terms of the setting. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3745 Posts |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2008 : 10:52:20
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| Even tho they say what it is and i suppose "they" are correct...I think it is implied that he is somewhat good or whatever, like the jack sparrow analogy, he is evil...yet good. so even tho they have to choose him as having whatver alignment they said, i think he is "better" then they say, because of what the books imply. and since it is more or less implied that he is good or at least not as evil as he acts, they can't official say he is goodish because it is just still only implied...or rather something along those lines...maybe...its like 4 a.m....i tried my best. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36814 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2008 : 14:49:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Genis
Even tho they say what it is and i suppose "they" are correct...I think it is implied that he is somewhat good or whatever, like the jack sparrow analogy, he is evil...yet good. so even tho they have to choose him as having whatver alignment they said, i think he is "better" then they say, because of what the books imply. and since it is more or less implied that he is good or at least not as evil as he acts, they can't official say he is goodish because it is just still only implied...or rather something along those lines...maybe...its like 4 a.m....i tried my best.
I honestly don't think it's implied that he's good. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2008 : 19:21:22
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I don't play the game or know the game vernacular, but it seems to me that Jar is in no way good. He's an evil suckah. He's completely in this for himself, no matter the consequences to others: the classic opportunist.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because some of his antics happen to be of benefit to the occasional goodly fella, therefore he must be a goodly fella, himself. That's a complete coinkidink. He doesn't do what he does because it will benefit others--he does it because he thinks that it will in some way benefit himself, either presently, or down the road some time.
[The Pirate King spoiler] In this most recent book by RAS, Jar repeatedly postures as a neutral party during a conflict in Luskan. But his fingerprints are all over everything. He goads characters into doing bad things, secures supplies for local villains, and prevents other characters from succeeding with goodly tasks, only to feign neutrality, or even good will. Scoundrels are afforded the stoneskin spell, rendering them impervious to goodly blades, leading to the death of a near-paladin of the high seas (Deudermont), and apparently to yet another "death" of a certain drow ranger. When called out on it, Jar backtracks only a step, without missing a beat, grinning and winking all the while, and casually returns to spinning his web of lies on and on. With all of his bases covered, Jarlaxle frustrates Drizzt into throwing his hands in the air, giving up, and moving on. [/spoiler]
If a dapper guy gives a girl flowers and chocolates with a smile on his face and a purr flowing from his lips, it's not necessarily because he's a thoughtful, generous fellow. Chances are, he's got something else a little less proper on his mind... 
Same deal here. You have to always read between the lines, with Jarlaxle (even though his vision is probably enhanced to an even greater accuity than your own). Entreri once had a short story about strategizing to "the third level"; with Jar, you bettah try to think past that, even, 'cause you know he will. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2008 : 00:04:54
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to every other pc and npc
Jarlaxe is an opportunistic , if he can get something out of it,
he is chaotic, but i can say.
Jarlaxle is Jarlaxle |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2008 : 14:03:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I honestly don't think it's implied that he's good.
And, if they are trying to imply that, they have an odd, convoluted way of doing that. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2008 : 09:36:57
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| Not like straight up Saint good but occasionally it shows a different side of him and implies that he geniunely cares for Entreri or about his feelings and etc etc blah blah blah...so not like good but one of those things like it gives you a little to make you think hey....he might not be that bad of a guy. |
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Ghost King
Learned Scribe
USA
253 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2008 : 12:33:58
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| Just cause you're evil doesn't mean you don't have people you like and are kind to (being kind after all isn't staple of being good, just like being a jerk doesn't mean you're evil either). Jar is a drow and like most drow is evil and out for himself and so is his assassin friend. They get along and might possibly be great friends, but that doesn't necessarily mean they both aren't evil in general. Remember, only beings of the cosmos (deities, entities, etc) are completely and utterly evil. Mortals always have a touch of grey to whatever cause or ideal they dedicate themselves too. While people are good they do have a dark side and same goes for evil characters having a light side. Sounds like Entreri and Jar are just friends out of respect for each others abilities and cunning, not out of kindness or caring, but then again I haven't read all the books so my opinion is rather mute point. However, all the material I have read, gaming source or novel, is that he is evil, just not Lloth or Bane evil if that makes any sense. |
Edited by - Ghost King on 14 Dec 2008 12:34:56 |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2008 : 14:50:46
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| I voted for CN before, but I have actually changed my mind (BIG surprise ) and now agree that Jarlaxle is evil- NE?. Goods deeds do not necessarily make one good, just as an evil deed doesn't necessarily make one evil. I think that motivation is a key factor and Jarlaxle is always looking out for number one. At the moment, Entreri may make his life more interesting and they do have mutual respect for each others' cunning and skill. I have no doubt, however, that Jarlaxle would throw him to the wolves if necessary to save his own skin. |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2008 : 19:50:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
I voted for CN before, but I have actually changed my mind (BIG surprise ) and now agree that Jarlaxle is evil- NE?. Goods deeds do not necessarily make one good, just as an evil deed doesn't necessarily make one evil. I think that motivation is a key factor and Jarlaxle is always looking out for number one. At the moment, Entreri may make his life more interesting and they do have mutual respect for each others' cunning and skill. I have no doubt, however, that Jarlaxle would throw him to the wolves if necessary to save his own skin.
I think that Jarlaxle does look out primarily for himself, but the neutral alignment is defined as someone who looks out for themself and maybe a few loved ones. What makes it fall into evil is when people go beyond self-preservation and into exploitation of others. It could be argued either way for Jarlaxle because of the society he grew up in. The things he does are necessary for his survival, so a case could be made that he is neutral. However, if he had grown up in any other society, there would be no question about him being evil. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2008 : 14:07:56
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quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
However, if he had grown up in any other society, there would be no question about him being evil.
Actually, there's still no question about him being evil, as every source that gives his alignment gives it as evil. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2008 : 16:50:50
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| I would say that there is a question about his alignment if you consider the discussion in this thread. I know that he is listed as evil in the books, but there are some subtleties that can't really be communicated by assigning an alignment. I think in assigning his alignment, they were looking at black-and-white rules of morality. I'm not normally an advocate for moral ambiguity, but in the realms, there is a little ambiguity about what is right and wrong. People kill, but sometimes it is considered an act of good. I'm not saying that Jarlaxle isn't evil, but I think he could also be neutral and it would fit pretty well with the way he is portrayed. |
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Mouse
Acolyte
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2008 : 09:03:18
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Jarlaxle's one of those characters who makes the Alingment system look a little silly just by being around. He's evidently self-serving, to the point of being evil, seems to not feel really sorry for anything he ever does or anyone else for that matter (maybe a hint of remorse, but never any regrets), and is totally vain....but evil? I dunno. He saves people, but only if they're useful, doesn't kill folks, but only because he doesn't see a need to, lots of contradictory examples like that.
I think he'd be just plain Neutral: everything to him in absolute moral relativity, so he just looks after himself, but tries to help friends if he feels like it.
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"Barbarians are more polite then civilized men, for civilized men know they may be rude to another without having their skulls cleaved open as a general thing."
-Conan |
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is jarlaxle good or evil?
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