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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
 Posted - 11 May 2005 : 08:01:47
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With a little promoting from Sirius, I've set aside this scroll so that other scribes here can discuss any of their own more unusual experiences with the Realms, similar in scope to what I was referring to here -
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Originally posted by SiriusBlack
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Originally posted by The Sage
It reminds me of a time when I mistakenly chose to game with a group of 12 year olds whose main obession was Pokemon.
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That sounds like some demented form of punishment from Loviatar.
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It certainly felt like it afterward... .
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Mind I ask how you actually agreed to game with them? Did you know of their Pokemon obsession? Pray tell they didn't come with pokeballs...please.
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It was actually because of curiosity on my part. I wanted to know how children perceived the game of D&D these days, compared to what my and my own friends experiences were like when we were first introduced to the game over fifteen years earlier.
And yes... they did bring their pokeballs to the "gaming" table .
Also picked up from the same previous scroll, and in an effort to negate any further off-topicness -
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
It was actually because of curiosity on my part. I wanted to know how children perceived the game of D&D these days, compared to what my and my own friends experiences were like when we were first introduced to the game over fifteen years earlier.
Where did you set the game within the Realms? Your experience sounds like a subject worth a topic of its own here at Candlekeep.
I originally wanted to start simple, and in a very small region, so I began in Shadowdale... a place immediately familiar to the children because Storm Silverhand was their favorite Realms character  .
We didn't expand much beyond the Dalelands in the four hour-long campaign, however a strange variety of "pokemon" were eventually found by the PCs (whom the kids created and ran with) to be infesting part of the forest surrounding the Dale. I didn't myself see the need to elaborate upon where these creatures came from... because the kids just seemed happy enough that they were in their game. Of course, I had to roleplay Storm, because the kids wanted to see her in action against a number of these little creatures, and then afterward they put together their own "Shadowdale Pokemon Championship" which was meant to bring in NPC pokemon players from around the Dalelands to Shadowdale in order to compete.
To see the children become immediately fascinated by such creatures and find ways to bring them into another game was almost bewildering to watch. While some of us here, as older and mature players, often spend several days crafting a logical and purposeful background for bringing non-campaign specific elements into another setting, these kids just didn't seem to mind at all. They didn't pay much heed to stats at first, which was a relief (however one kid did put together a few ideas about a "Pokemon Handler" PrC  ), put they also didn't put much thought into how these creatures first came to be in the Realms.
Now, I didn't like that from my perspective, but the kids seemed okay with it. They just played, and played, and well... played. It was intensely fascinating for them to use these small creatures in an RPG. Although, when the time did come to stat these creatures... all types of arguments arose between the children about what D&D and creature abilities were better than others, and which pokemon creatures were "better" than other pokemon creatures. In the end, each of the pokemon were seriously overpowered and significantly unbalanced... and it didn't seem to bother any of them  .
Needless to say, I had an extremely hard time DMing such a campaign with severely overpowered creatures running around the place.
But overall it was interesting. I think I now have a fair idea of what the perception of D&D is alike amongst some types of children today, and while I fear that the D&D game will likely be tailored more and more for these types of players, who will grow up under the increasing influence of a crunch-heavy D&D environment, I can only respect the fact that WotC must follow the "wants" of the largest group of D&D consumers.
Special note: If there are any younger D&D gamers reading this, I apologise in advance if you have taken offense to that last statement. I had no intentions on offending anyone, I was merely outlining what I see as the growing WotC D&D marketing trend. I encourage debate on this, if you believe my view is incorrect, and would appreciate the fact to discuss such an issue with you.
Again, I meant no offense  .
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2005 : 09:07:30
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Back in second edition I ran an FR game for my high school chums.
I allowed everyone one “quirk”, one thing that was different about them that wasn’t D&D standard. One player made a dwarf wizard, another used up their quirk to be allowed to play a Drow elf (bard) (Halflings Gem had just come out around this time, so he had a bad case of Drow fever). The others, I can’t remember for the life of me. I do remember saying that a Mind Flayer was out of the question, and that player settled on playing a psionicist.
The person playing the psionicist was my best friend, and she was also the only girl at the table. Having played under the person who was currently running the drow, I became well acquainted with player favoritism. When He ran, the girl would suddenly find the best magic items, or hit the big score in cyberpunk, or get magically brought back from the dead in a game with no magic. You get the picture.
So, thus acquainted with this phenomenon, I made great efforts to not do the same thing.
So, I started the game out pretty simply, out of Shadowdale, fighting agents of the cult of the dragon. At some point, I got the Azure Bonds module, and everyone woke up cursed. We ran through that, and then back to the Cult of the Dragon storyline.
During the entire campaign, however, the only girl (It should be obvious at this point that I’m avoiding using her name) was still overpowered and pampered. The other players, despite massive race differences, constantly tried to court her favor by giving her magic items, larger shares of treasure and anything else she expressed an interest in.
Me and my friend carpooled to the game (being as how I didn’t own a car and her parents owned like 20) and she would complain bitterly on the way back how she never got to actually play D&D since all the other guys were always trying to impress her by doing daring feats and saving her by “keeping her safe” (as in, hardly letting take part in anything potentially dangerous.)
The game lost steam after my friend couldn’t make it anymore (she could, she just got sick of everyone) and half the players decided that they had better things to do, leaving me with the hardcore player crowd. Which was nice, except those 3 players would NOT let the game end, despite the fact we had left the “Sweet Spot” and gone past 16th level and everyone had hoards of followers.
So, what I told everyone was “I’ll give you XP if you write me about you future exploits in the Realms.” And, much to my surprise, next game week I got 3 separate folders, all printed in dot matrix about what each character did. The drow bard started a city right where Evereska is ( O_o) that had a large population of “good drow, minotaurs and mind flayers”
There isn’t an bang up ended; like a lot of games, we just rapidly faded out after that, although eventually the guy who ran the drow started up a new game, based out of his city that didn’t last to long.
Not quite as massively different as having pokemon thingies frolicking about. 
As far as discussing where I think WoTC/Hasbro has gone “wrong”, well, let me know if you really want to discuss that, and I will gladly rant. ^_^
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2005 : 14:37:21
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I began in Shadowdale... a place immediately familiar to the children because Storm Silverhand was their favorite Realms character .
Why was Storm their favorite character?
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I fear that the D&D game will likely be tailored more and more for these types of players, who will grow up under the increasing influence of a crunch-heavy D&D environment, I can only respect the fact that WotC must follow the "wants" of the largest group of D&D consumers.
Having DMed, several years ago, for a small group of early teens, I share similar feelings. They were also more into crunch factors over anything else. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2005 : 14:42:40
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I began in Shadowdale... a place immediately familiar to the children because Storm Silverhand was their favorite Realms character .
Why was Storm their favorite character?
From their general attitudes, and also, sifting through what they said about her and how they "described" her... I think their favoritism for Storm was solely based on hormonal factors...
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2005 : 14:43:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
I became well acquainted with player favoritism. When He ran, the girl would suddenly find the best magic items, or hit the big score in cyberpunk, or get magically brought back from the dead in a game with no magic.
What funny coincidences.
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During the entire campaign, however, the only girl (It should be obvious at this point that I’m avoiding using her name) was still overpowered and pampered. The other players, despite massive race differences, constantly tried to court her favor by giving her magic items, larger shares of treasure and anything else she expressed an interest in.
What were the ages of everyone involved?
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As far as discussing where I think WoTC/Hasbro has gone “wrong”, well, let me know if you really want to discuss that, and I will gladly rant. ^_^
Oh yes, please rant away. <Sirius pulls up a chair and gets comfortable> |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2005 : 14:44:10
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
From their general attitudes, and also, sifting through what they said about her and how they "described" her... I think their favoritism for Storm was solely based on hormonal factors...
I figured that was the reason, but wanted to ask.
WOTC's missing a golden opportunity in not publishing a Storm calendar. |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 11 May 2005 14:44:28 |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2005 : 14:56:57
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When I was in high school (about 8-10 years ago) my friends and I played a lot and really didn't have anything too strange. We were very unoriginal and blatantly ripped off names from LOTR, changing only one syllable and stuff like that, but otherwise, the game was pretty normal.
However, my younger cousin and his friends really wanted me to DM for them because they always wanted to play so I decided to be a nice guy and try to DM for them.
One guy wanted to have a harpoon that shoots from his hand and pulls his victim in close. His characters name....Scorpion. Another player wanted to specialize in "ice magic" so he can freeze people and then beat the snot out of them. His name....you guessed it... Sub Zero. They really didn't understand the way D&D works and just wanted their characters to fight each other. I think they were all Chaotic Evil. Needless to say the game didn't last very long. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2005 : 15:00:41
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
As far as discussing where I think WoTC/Hasbro has gone “wrong”, well, let me know if you really want to discuss that, and I will gladly rant. ^_^
Oh yes, please rant away. <Sirius pulls up a chair and gets comfortable>
Yes, I wouldn't mind a little chatter on this as well. Fire away Jindael ...
quote:
WOTC's missing a golden opportunity in not publishing a Storm calendar.
 ... Now, I know a few young ones around here who'd like to see one of these pop up on their Christmas lists...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2005 : 16:18:41
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I know a few young ones around here who'd like to see one of these pop up on their Christmas lists...
Pop up? Interesting phrase to use there when it comes to the subject of a Storm calendar.  |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2005 : 18:58:37
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| I admit that I am a teen(guilty as charged) but I frankly don`t see why a calendar with Storm on it would be so fantastic. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2005 : 19:47:03
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I would buy a calendar featuring Storm, and I’m not a teen. ^_^
I’ll rant in a while, I’m in the process of moving my grandparents halfway across the state, and I’ve discovered an interesting fact of adventuring that is very, very time consuming; counting coin. Sacks and sacks of coin accumulated over 20 years in the same house. Next time I slay a dragon and ask “how much gold is there?” I’ll have new respect.
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2005 : 21:18:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
Next time I slay a dragon and ask “how much gold is there?” I’ll have new respect.
Isn't it fun when a real life experience gives you new appreciation for certain Realms encounters? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36797 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2005 : 22:49:02
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
Next time I slay a dragon and ask “how much gold is there?” I’ll have new respect.
Isn't it fun when a real life experience gives you new appreciation for certain Realms encounters?
On the flipside, looking at the size of real-world coins has made me realize something about dragon hordes... If you work out how many coins are in the horde, there's no way that even the largest horde could provide much more than just a pillow for a dragon. And yet, dragons are always supposed to be reclining on mounds of coins... |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 00:10:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
Next time I slay a dragon and ask “how much gold is there?” I’ll have new respect.
Isn't it fun when a real life experience gives you new appreciation for certain Realms encounters?
On the flipside, looking at the size of real-world coins has made me realize something about dragon hordes... If you work out how many coins are in the horde, there's no way that even the largest horde could provide much more than just a pillow for a dragon. And yet, dragons are always supposed to be reclining on mounds of coins...
Unless of course they convert all of their horde into copper pieces, then they may have atleast a body pillow or mattress. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 00:53:11
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| Well, I even heard that some undead dragons are tied to to their horde on a basis of a special link. And their horde is very important to them, as important as their undead existence. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 01:41:16
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I know a few young ones around here who'd like to see one of these pop up on their Christmas lists...
Pop up? Interesting phrase to use there when it comes to the subject of a Storm calendar.
Strangely, I didn't realise that, until AFTER I had posted it ...
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 02:01:55
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Huzah!
I counted the coin, and thanks to the miracle works of Gond and Waukeen combined, I was able to dump it all into a machine and get easily portable cash.
btw, another interesting parallel. I only carried ¼ of all the coin with me, because it’s all I could carry and still walk around with comfort. That’s $350US in coin, I found out. How adventurers carry all that…well, Bag of Holding will be top on my list in the future.
With a portion of my spoil, I purchased
Mistress of the Night
The Black Bouquet
The Crimson Gold
The Yellow Silk
Elminster in Myth Drannor
and
Forsaken House.
Yay for me.
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
Edited by - Jindael on 12 May 2005 02:03:19 |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 08:50:41
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My elevated mood will probably dilute any angst in my rant. I’m still too pleased with my hoard and new tomes.
However, despite my glee, I still have a few complaints about how 3.X turned out. Bear in mind that this is my opinion, and out of the people I used to game with (I’m moving, so no more games for me for a while) at least 2 people disagree with me on almost all points.
So, to start off:
The general feel: as The Sage pointed out during his poke-a-rific escaped, the game is very geared towards crunch over flavor. The character building “feat” system is almost totally based on giving you a bonus to something, especially in the core books. So, while you can make each fighter different, the only difference is what skill they have +2 in, and whether of not you decide to pursue one of the limited feat tree progressions. The do almost nothing to add to the character versus the numbers.
Even the FRCS does a bad job of providing interesting feats in favor of +2 this, +2 that feats. This is really a shame, considering how packed full of flavor FR already was prior to 3.X
Granted, in many cases, a feat is going to give a character a bonus of some kind, and numerical bonus are easy. Thunder Twin, Tattoo Focus and Resist Poison are examples of good feats (despite the last one being underpowered, but it’s a good example of a numerical feat that works well.) Silver Palm, Smooth Talk, etc are just page filler made to increase the feat count.
And probably my biggest complaint about 3.X is the way that page counts are increased with tasteless filler, much like a twinkie.
Lets just save everyone the trouble and make up one new feat and call it “Skill Feat” Skill Feat gives you a +2 to any 2 skills or a +2 to one skill and a +1 to any one saving throw, or +2 to a skill and a martial weapon proficiency.
There, I’ve just stated out what has to be over 100 feats. But now I don’t need to comb through a host of books to find the one that fits my character concept or the skills I want boosted.
“Contains 23 New Feats, ready for play!” or something like that is a tag line on a lot of new products. Technically, yes, 23 feats are in the book. 2, maybe 3 are useful. The rest? Twinkie.
Speaking of Twinkie, the most annoying page filler has to be repeating prestige classes. I don’t mean how the Bladesinger has been in 4 different books, I mean the following:
---
Bladesinger
Gives you
Ability A
Ability B
Ability C
Ability D
Here is an example Bladesinger
Fredelf
Fredelf has (Long paragraph of elf abilities that are clearly listed in the PHB)
Fredelf can (repeat text from Ability A)
Fredelf can (repeat text from Ability B)
Fredelf can (repeat text from Ability C)
Fredelf can (repeat text from Ability D)
---
Unlike my example, this takes up 2 pages, at least to describe the PrC, then 2 more pages to…well, describe the PrC. Who are they fooling? What group of people is thinking “Gee, I didn’t get that until I read it a second time, but I’m just too lazy to turn the pages the other way. Once I start reading, well, I just can’t go back.”
That really has to be one of the most annoying and intelligence insulting things presented in the books. 10 PrC’s, 2 pages for the description, 2 pages to repeat the description. That’s 20 pages of fluff that I’d much rather see the talented people who are doing this for a living (or even freelancing) using their minds and creativity filling up.
PrC’s, in general, seem to be evolving towards really small niches as well, limiting their function in great amounts. Then, in the next book, there is a PrC that is almost exactly the same, but with slight changes to the flavor and requirements, and massively different art for the portrait so they aren’t readily identifiable.
In the Realms, I find that 3.X works pretty well, despite the fact that not a whole lot has been done (yet) to address the sudden changes from 2nd, to 3rd. (such as High Magic.) With, of course, the same problems that I mentioned above plaguing the FR books, especially the lack of flavorful feats. Because without them, FR becomes a video-game style RPG with the only options for feats being what gives you the best bonus.
And…I’m outta steam. I have books to read. ^_^
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36797 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 11:22:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
Bladesinger
Gives you
Ability A
Ability B
Ability C
Ability D
Here is an example Bladesinger
Fredelf
Fredelf has (Long paragraph of elf abilities that are clearly listed in the PHB)
Fredelf can (repeat text from Ability A)
Fredelf can (repeat text from Ability B)
Fredelf can (repeat text from Ability C)
Fredelf can (repeat text from Ability D)
---
That's bugged me as well... They do the same thing with templates, and it's all just a waste of space. |
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The Blue Sorceress
Learned Scribe
107 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 11:25:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
The general feel: as The Sage pointed out during his poke-a-rific escaped, the game is very geared towards crunch over flavor. The character building “feat” system is almost totally based on giving you a bonus to something, especially in the core books. So, while you can make each fighter different, the only difference is what skill they have +2 in, and whether of not you decide to pursue one of the limited feat tree progressions. The do almost nothing to add to the character versus the numbers.
A book is going to be hard pressed to teach a person how to roleplay no matter how flufftastic it is and the people that have trouble roleplaying are going to be the very same people that are just going to skip the fluff and read the crunchy parts. I'm a pretty good actor and an aspiring author, so I've got a decent handle on how to build a character and get into the role, but some people just have trouble building that kind of empathy (and it really is a form of empathy, I think) and only time and experience can teach them that, and even then it's hard.
Some people are also just not that interested in roleplaying, and it's not just because of 3.X. Some people are more drawn to fights than to politics, and some people just don't have the patience to put up with what may very well seem to them as tedious inaction. I would argue that there are probably just as many people like that in the Realms as there are in the real world.
Personal preference also has an effect. I can't stand a game that is mostly about politics because I hate politics. I'm not going to enjoy a game that has to deal with a lot of political intrigue because getting into that frame of mind isn't fun for me (this is actually the same reason I refuse to play in evil campaigns -anymore- or play evil characters. I just don't enjoy it.)
And that, at the heart of it, is what the game is all about isn't it? The books may be lacking in fluff and encouragement for roleplaying, but the people who want to roleplay will end up doing just that, and the people who don't know or don't know how can be taught. Will the crunchiness of the 3.X books stop you from roleplaying? Can they?
Of course not. They way you play the game is up to you. If there's not a enough fluff in new sources why not just make it up? It may not be printed in one of the books, but if your PC's have any impact on the Realms at all there will be enough differences between your campaign Realms and the official Realms to create a situation where you're not really playing in the official Realms anyway.
If you're worried about the next 'generation' of roleplayers, don't be. I'm hot off the presses of 3.0, I never played 2E or any earlier edition except in the Baldur's Gate computer games (and if that's not a powergamer-producing enviornment I don't know what is) and one abortive and poorly DM'd romp in what very quickly, and much to my horror, became a real munchkin land. I still shudder at the memory of that and the complex mathematics involved in the whole operation. THAC0 was the stuff straight out of my left-brained nightmares.
quote:
Even the FRCS does a bad job of providing interesting feats in favor of +2 this, +2 that feats. This is really a shame, considering how packed full of flavor FR already was prior to 3.X
Granted, in many cases, a feat is going to give a character a bonus of some kind, and numerical bonus are easy. Thunder Twin, Tattoo Focus and Resist Poison are examples of good feats (despite the last one being underpowered, but it’s a good example of a numerical feat that works well.) Silver Palm, Smooth Talk, etc are just page filler made to increase the feat count.
Those are two of the most flavorful feats in the book though, and a great way to help a player emphasize their personal interaction skills. Yes, they provide a numerical bonus, but if they didn't they'd be a waste of time and they wouldn't be balanced with the others. Game balance, after all, is one of the things designers have to think about when creating a game, and a lack of balance is one of the things I hear people complain about the most. If you want to play a character that's a good bargainer (greater for Waukeenar priests and not only totally in character but useful only under roleplaying cirumstances) and a great diplomat you're going to take those two feats and really enjoy it whenever you get a chance to haggle over the price of a magic item or try and smooth things out with the local constabulary because it allows you to let your character shine.
Before you mention rollplaying skills like this and roleplaying them, in some games there are going to be people who don't think well on the fly. You know this kid, I'm sure; smart as a whip but not exactly possessed of the gift of gab. On the other side of things you've got people like myself (I'm not bragging, just using my own experiences as an example) good with words, a fairly quick judge of social situations, but small and physcially weak. I enjoy playing fighters and paladins because in that role I can try on the shoes of the warrior and live the life of someone with the physical power I lack. I play talkers too, and even my fighters and paladins are more the ask questions first kill stuff later sort, but you get the idea. The kid who's not so great in social situations might find the idea of playing the party's bard to fulfill the same role that playing a paladin of Lathander fulfills for me. It give him the chance to be popular and a good speaker, even if it is just in a game, and hell, it may even help him start overcoming his lack of verbal skill.
But for that to happen -and here's where we get into the value of feats like Silver Palm and Smooth Talk as well as skill checks in social situations- there has to be some way for a guy who trips over his own tongue to play that character. It would be unfair to expect him to do what I and others like me do naturally and easily, just as unfair as it would be to expect me to win in a fistfight against one of the American Galdiators. There has to be some way to represent this character's ability to persuade. So you roll the die, add the appropriate modifiers and see what you get. Later on you encourage the kid to make up a summary of what he's saying to the NPC he's talking to, and add appropriate modifiers to his roll. I say later on only because if you start penalizing the player right off the bat he's not going to have that much fun playing his character. Essentially you're penalizing him for his own inability to speak as much as you would be penalizing me for my lack of arm strength when my character swings his sword.
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And probably my biggest complaint about 3.X is the way that page counts are increased with tasteless filler, much like a twinkie.
Lets just save everyone the trouble and make up one new feat and call it “Skill Feat” Skill Feat gives you a +2 to any 2 skills or a +2 to one skill and a +1 to any one saving throw, or +2 to a skill and a martial weapon proficiency.
There, I’ve just stated out what has to be over 100 feats. But now I don’t need to comb through a host of books to find the one that fits my character concept or the skills I want boosted.
“Contains 23 New Feats, ready for play!” or something like that is a tag line on a lot of new products. Technically, yes, 23 feats are in the book. 2, maybe 3 are useful. The rest? Twinkie.
Some of those 'Skill Feats' serve a legitimate purpose as I explained above, and I very much doubt that the vast majority of them are simply filler. Most of them, especially in the newer books, represent a way for a character to gain a new ability, that is more or less unique to them. A lot of them aren't very useful outside of a few special situations and thus are, for munchkins, just as much fluff as the flavor text. A lot of them also serve as a way to represent details about the character in game mechanics. For example: say I want to play a bard who was the daughter of a mercenary captain and travelled with his mother as sort of a camp follower. She picked up some things about combat, but was more interested in the stories and songs the mercenaries sang. She developed her bardica abilities and her martial abilities unequally (ie wasn't a multiclassed bard/fighter) but she still did some martial training because she thought it was neat and more importantly her father wanted her to. So, as her player, I take the feat "Camp Follower" and recieve one martial weapon proficiency of my choice (selected from a list of weapons that are commonly used by mercenaries) as well as a +2 to an associated skill check, probably in this case intimidate, and then if it didn't seem unbalanced, a +2 circumstance bonus (I think it would be circumstance) to knoweledge checks (or int checks, or maybe even my bardic lore checks) made regarding mercenary companies, such as the heraldry of different companies, their commanders, the battles they've been in, and their reputation.
Is that feat useful to every character? No. Can any character take it? No. Is there another way I could get both of those things? Sure, there's two feats in the Players Handbook, but what if I'm just a measly half-elf bard and I don't get two feats at first level, and there's no real way to represnt the mercenary-associated knowledge except with a bunch of ill-suited knowledge skills or maybe a bonus to bardic checks given by my nice DM (presuming I have a nice DM, which I may not.) Those bonuses and this feat represents in terms of game mechanics, a collection of experiences from my character's childhood. They aren't all encompassing, but it does provide a skeletal structure that I can use as a base when I'm fleshing out my character's history and personality, and it provides those who would normally just play the quintessential orphaned fighter with amnesia just to avoid making up a character background with an incentive to create a backstory for their character; and thus roleplaying blooms out of rollplaying. A good DM keeps track of these things and plans games accordingly. He may not make the reluctant roleplayer roleplay every thing related to his background, because that player won't have fun with that, and like I said before, the game is about having fun, but he may prod him now and again and make him put the experiences that feat represents to good use and the rest of the time let the bonuses speak for themselves.
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Speaking of Twinkie, the most annoying page filler has to be repeating prestige classes. I don’t mean how the Bladesinger has been in 4 different books, I mean the following:
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Bladesinger
Gives you
Ability A
Ability B
Ability C
Ability D
Here is an example Bladesinger
Fredelf
Fredelf has (Long paragraph of elf abilities that are clearly listed in the PHB)
Fredelf can (repeat text from Ability A)
Fredelf can (repeat text from Ability B)
Fredelf can (repeat text from Ability C)
Fredelf can (repeat text from Ability D)
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Unlike my example, this takes up 2 pages, at least to describe the PrC, then 2 more pages to…well, describe the PrC. Who are they fooling? What group of people is thinking “Gee, I didn’t get that until I read it a second time, but I’m just too lazy to turn the pages the other way. Once I start reading, well, I just can’t go back.”
That really has to be one of the most annoying and intelligence insulting things presented in the books. 10 PrC’s, 2 pages for the description, 2 pages to repeat the description. That’s 20 pages of fluff that I’d much rather see the talented people who are doing this for a living (or even freelancing) using their minds and creativity filling up.
The bladesinger keeps getting reworked and reprinted because it's suffered from being overpowered and also from lacking flavor. Don't get mad at the designers for trying to get the feel right. The presentation of an NPC stat block helps DM's like me who want to use something from a book for a small part of the game but would rather spend most of our time working out the main plot.
Second of all, some people aren't that bright. Yep, even DnD players can be a little slow. What insults your intelligence may help another player understand what ability B does. I've got a friend I love to bits, but he's not as smart as some of my other friends (he used to say that psionics were benevolent in his world when he meant that they were prevalent. It wasn't until he said that psions were as common as mages a sentence later that my confusion -"wait, you mean these psions are all really nice guys?"- that I realized what he meant. This repetion you hate so much and call laziness is really, I think, the designers making sure things are explained clearly so that all the players can understand what they mean.
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PrC’s, in general, seem to be evolving towards really small niches as well, limiting their function in great amounts. Then, in the next book, there is a PrC that is almost exactly the same, but with slight changes to the flavor and requirements, and massively different art for the portrait so they aren’t readily identifiable.
If you wrote this while looking at the Great Rift Deep Defender from the Shining South accessory and the Dwarven Defender from the DMG, then I can understand where you're coming from, but in all my reading I've yet to come up with a pair of PrC's that close and even then there are differences that I would call significant. The GRDD is only a five level PrC, whereas the DD is a ten level class (meaning it can be continued indefinitely into epic levels), and though many of the requirements are the same the GRDD requires a character entering the class to be a gold dwarf. Thus, while any dwarf that's lawful can be a DD, only lawful gold dwarves can be GRDDs. Might not seem like much, but as they say in the infomercials, "but wait, there's more!". The dwarven defender affords more manueverability to the character as they reach higher levels in that class. These are obviously dwarves that are willing to retreat or at least adjust their position in the tunnels, if need be. The GRDD doesn't get that. A Great Rift Deep Defender is one dwarf that's not budging until he falls dead and then you can bet his body will still be hampering invaders as they try to squeeze past him in the small tunnels that are his battle field. Like the DD, the GRDD gets uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge, as well as bonuses to his AC, but he doesn't get the defensive stance ability, or the trap sense ability, and instead recieves abilities that focus on the fact that, yes, this dwarf isn't going anywhere; the true immovable object.
Are the classes similar? Sure. Did they make it almost entirely the same and just change the flavor text? I would say no. The Great Rift Deep Defender is a valid Realms-specific PrC modelled in some ways after the Dwarven Defender, but it retains a certain uniqueness that makes it a valuable addition to the Shining South accessory. Is this class going to be useful to PCs? Probably not unless they're
playing gold dwarves living in the Great Rift, but it's perfectly useful for a DM with players who are passing through the Great Rift for some reason and happen to be there when there's a fight. They get to see the gold dwarves in action and flavor text abounds as the DM describes the way these dwarves react to an attack on their home.
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In the Realms, I find that 3.X works pretty well, despite the fact that not a whole lot has been done (yet) to address the sudden changes from 2nd, to 3rd. (such as High Magic.) With, of course, the same problems that I mentioned above plaguing the FR books, especially the lack of flavorful feats. Because without them, FR becomes a video-game style RPG with the only options for feats being what gives you the best bonus.
I think the lack of flavorful feats is all in your mind. Flavor depends on how you look at something and how you can imagine it fitting into the world, not the descriptive text associated with the feat. I think the designers purposefully feats without "flavor" to allow DM's and players to create flavor of their own. It's your job as a DM and as a player to interpret what the feats you select say about your character when combined as a whole, not the designer. Otherwise you get niche-oriented crunch the likes of which you complained about just a paragraph earlier. The game doesn't come with flavor packets like a package of ramen, you have to season it yourself and employ your own imagination to make the dish -to continue my food analogy- a flavorful and enoyable one.
-Blue |
Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
I see your walrus and raise you a carpenter |
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The Blue Sorceress
Learned Scribe
107 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 11:44:33
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And now for an on-topic post.
My Realms games have been few and far between simply because most of the people I game with don't care much for the Realms. I enjoyed some success with a low-level campaign, but some of the player characters became over-powered because I did a shoddy job of reining them in and I hated to kill off PCs.
Initially it wasn't too bad. We had a centaur druid PC who used the Savage Species progression so he could start as a level one character like the rest, and he did a superb job of roleplaying. We also had an Elan psychic warrior PC, who had a great backstory and again did a superb job of roleplaying. They were the most powerful PCs, and the ones I had the most difficulty keeping in check (I learned not to give the centaur room to charge with his lance when he took out a young adult green dragon in one blow because of a remarkable critical hit -he did over 100 points of damage- and a failed save versus massive damage on the part of the dragon -it rolled a one. )
I never had any experiences as a DM that were like Sage's experiences with his twelve year-old players, but I did have a rough time as a player with a DM that was about 14 (I was 15 at the time) in the one 2e FR campaign I played in. He enjoyed roleplaying, but he thought like a powergamer, and was just a poor DM in general. He didn't do a very good job of constructing a plot (he was 14, but he never improved even as he got older and more experienced with gaming, which is a shame because for all his faults he was a nice kid and I would have gamed with him more if he hadn't been such a frustrating guy to have as a DM or a player) and most of the NPCs were named Bob For Now. That was a running joke I'd told him about from another game, but he kept it going and even made up a major NPC that was called Robert Furnowe, that served us only as comic relief and a plot hook. Ugh. In truth, much of the game was a series of puns and jokes and nonsensical happenings. We stopped after I lost interest and sort of slid out of the game. I'd been the one more or less keeping things together (let me tell you, it was like trying to nail jelly to the wall) and things got so out of control the game had to end. I took my two characters (the DM insisted that we have a cleric and since he didn't want to handle a major NPC he had me play the cleric and the party fighter; my backstory was the two of them were married and adventuring together) and smuggled them out of the party before things got too crasy -saving them for another more sensible game- and they are now living happily and peacefully in Silverymoon.
-Blue |
Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
I see your walrus and raise you a carpenter |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 19:01:53
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quote:
Originally posted by The Blue Sorceress
A book is going to be hard pressed to teach a person how to roleplay no matter how flufftastic it is and the people that have trouble roleplaying are going to be the very same people that are just going to skip the fluff and read the crunchy parts. I'm a pretty good actor and an aspiring author, so I've got a decent handle on how to build a character and get into the role, but some people just have trouble building that kind of empathy (and it really is a form of empathy, I think) and only time and experience can teach them that, and even then it's hard.
Oh, agreed. But my observation from playing a host of rule heavy games (Shadowrun, Hero System, Rolemaster) and playing lots of rules light games (BESM, Fuzion systems, Arcanum (I think it’s called), etc) is that crunch heavy games leans towards character optimization over personality development. The flip side of this, of course, is that people who are going to “powergame” are going to do so no matter what. White Wolf’s old system (I’m not very familiar with the new system) is a perfect example. Rich background, but severely prone to abuse with the mechanics.
I’m not in anyway saying that anyone who picks up 3.X is suddenly going to become a robot character who just number crunches. I’m also not suggesting that older editions were better. I much prefer 3.5 over 2nd and 1st edition.
quote:
Originally posted by The Blue Sorceress
And that, at the heart of it, is what the game is all about isn't it? The books may be lacking in fluff and encouragement for roleplaying, but the people who want to roleplay will end up doing just that, and the people who don't know or don't know how can be taught. Will the crunchiness of the 3.X books stop you from roleplaying? Can they?
Obviously not. But it really wouldn’t hurt for them to add the “What is Roleplaying” bit that’s been in every other book prior to 3.X. :p
quote:
Originally posted by The Blue Sorceress
If you're worried about the next 'generation' of roleplayers, don't be. I'm hot off the presses of 3.0, I never played 2E or any earlier edition except in the Baldur's Gate computer games (and if that's not a powergamer-producing enviornment I don't know what is) and one abortive and poorly DM'd romp in what very quickly, and much to my horror, became a real munchkin land. I still shudder at the memory of that and the complex mathematics involved in the whole operation. THAC0 was the stuff straight out of my left-brained nightmares.
I’m not worried about them at all. They should do what they want to do. You, for example, seem quite content with your playing style. My old group contained 2 “kick in the door, kill the monster, take its stuff” players. They were as happy as a Halfling blade frolicking in a storm giant’s cleavage doing just that. And, since they were happy, despite the fact that it wasn’t my personal preference, meant we had a good game with happy people as long as we catered to their style for a while. As I said at the start of my post; this is all my opinion.
quote:
Originally posted by The Blue Sorceress
Those are two of the most flavorful feats in the book though, and a great way to help a player emphasize their personal interaction skills. Yes, they provide a numerical bonus, but if they didn't they'd be a waste of time and they wouldn't be balanced with the others. Game balance, after all, is one of the things designers have to think about when creating a game, and a lack of balance is one of the things I hear people complain about the most. If you want to play a character that's a good bargainer (greater for Waukeenar priests and not only totally in character but useful only under roleplaying cirumstances) and a great diplomat you're going to take those two feats and really enjoy it whenever you get a chance to haggle over the price of a magic item or try and smooth things out with the local constabulary because it allows you to let your character shine.
I don’t deny that they could potentially be useful, but as a +2/+2 feat they just fail to impress and are just a regurgitation of previous feats. I’d much rather see something unique that benefits such a character, such as a feat that allows a pc to take 20 on a diplomacy check once a day, but in one round to quick talk their way past something. Yea, that’s not really balanced but it’s off the top of my head. :p
In my first post, I mentioned that I know people who disagree with my complaints about 3.X, and the +2/+2 selection of Feats is one of the things that they disagree with me the most. It’s just my complaint, and I find that a lot of people don’t agree with me on that.
quote:
Originally posted by The Blue Sorceress
Before you mention rollplaying skills like this and roleplaying them, in some games there are going to be people who don't think well on the fly. You know this kid, I'm sure; smart as a whip but not exactly possessed of the gift of gab. On the other side of things you've got people like myself (I'm not bragging, just using my own experiences as an example) good with words, a fairly quick judge of social situations, but small and physcially weak. I enjoy playing fighters and paladins because in that role I can try on the shoes of the warrior and live the life of someone with the physical power I lack. I play talkers too, and even my fighters and paladins are more the ask questions first kill stuff later sort, but you get the idea. The kid who's not so great in social situations might find the idea of playing the party's bard to fulfill the same role that playing a paladin of Lathander fulfills for me. It give him the chance to be popular and a good speaker, even if it is just in a game, and hell, it may even help him start overcoming his lack of verbal skill.
But for that to happen -and here's where we get into the value of feats like Silver Palm and Smooth Talk as well as skill checks in social situations- there has to be some way for a guy who trips over his own tongue to play that character. It would be unfair to expect him to do what I and others like me do naturally and easily, just as unfair as it would be to expect me to win in a fistfight against one of the American Galdiators. There has to be some way to represent this character's ability to persuade. So you roll the die, add the appropriate modifiers and see what you get. Later on you encourage the kid to make up a summary of what he's saying to the NPC he's talking to, and add appropriate modifiers to his roll. I say later on only because if you start penalizing the player right off the bat he's not going to have that much fun playing his character. Essentially you're penalizing him for his own inability to speak as much as you would be penalizing me for my lack of arm strength when my character swings his sword.
I wasn’t going to mention it. :p I’m well aware of the great advantage of skills for talkers who, in real life, can’t talk. Again, feats like Smooth Talk should exist; they should just give a better advantage
quote:
Originally posted by The Blue Sorceress
Some of those 'Skill Feats' serve a legitimate purpose as I explained above, and I very much doubt that the vast majority of them are simply filler. Most of them, especially in the newer books, represent a way for a character to gain a new ability, that is more or less unique to them. A lot of them aren't very useful outside of a few special situations and thus are, for munchkins, just as much fluff as the flavor text. A lot of them also serve as a way to represent details about the character in game mechanics. For example: say I want to play a bard who was the daughter of a mercenary captain and travelled with his mother as sort of a camp follower. She picked up some things about combat, but was more interested in the stories and songs the mercenaries sang. She developed her bardica abilities and her martial abilities unequally (ie wasn't a multiclassed bard/fighter) but she still did some martial training because she thought it was neat and more importantly her father wanted her to. So, as her player, I take the feat "Camp Follower" and recieve one martial weapon proficiency of my choice (selected from a list of weapons that are commonly used by mercenaries) as well as a +2 to an associated skill check, probably in this case intimidate, and then if it didn't seem unbalanced, a +2 circumstance bonus (I think it would be circumstance) to knoweledge checks (or int checks, or maybe even my bardic lore checks) made regarding mercenary companies, such as the heraldry of different companies, their commanders, the battles they've been in, and their reputation.
Is that feat useful to every character? No. Can any character take it? No. Is there another way I could get both of those things? Sure, there's two feats in the Players Handbook, but what if I'm just a measly half-elf bard and I don't get two feats at first level, and there's no real way to represnt the mercenary-associated knowledge except with a bunch of ill-suited knowledge skills or maybe a bonus to bardic checks given by my nice DM (presuming I have a nice DM, which I may not.) Those bonuses and this feat represents in terms of game mechanics, a collection of experiences from my character's childhood. They aren't all encompassing, but it does provide a skeletal structure that I can use as a base when I'm fleshing out my character's history and personality, and it provides those who would normally just play the quintessential orphaned fighter with amnesia just to avoid making up a character background with an incentive to create a backstory for their character; and thus roleplaying blooms out of rollplaying. A good DM keeps track of these things and plans games accordingly. He may not make the reluctant roleplayer roleplay every thing related to his background, because that player won't have fun with that, and like I said before, the game is about having fun, but he may prod him now and again and make him put the experiences that feat represents to good use and the rest of the time let the bonuses speak for themselves.
Er, If I’m not mistaken, you just made up that feat. (Which isn’t a bad thing, IMO) to fit the specific needs of the character your talking about. It fits perfectly for that character, and, as you pointed out, wouldn’t for any other. So, heheh, I stand by my idea that all the skill feats could replaced with my single generic feat that I detailed above. There is no need to fill our books with these when (and this is what I want more than anything) the pages could be filled with unique and creative ideas from people we have seen are capable of providing them. It still feels like twinkie filler to me.
quote:
The bladesinger keeps getting reworked and reprinted because it's suffered from being overpowered and also from lacking flavor. Don't get mad at the designers for trying to get the feel right. The presentation of an NPC stat block helps DM's like me who want to use something from a book for a small part of the game but would rather spend most of our time working out the main plot.
The bladesinger being reprinted so many times wasn’t my point (people thought the old bladesinger PrC was OVERpowered? Really? Wow. I missed that.), just a side note, but I will point out that I’m not “mad” at the designers. :) (and I’m actually pretty happy with the Bladesinger that is in the Complete Warrior.)
quote:
Second of all, some people aren't that bright. Yep, even DnD players can be a little slow. What insults your intelligence may help another player understand what ability B does. I've got a friend I love to bits, but he's not as smart as some of my other friends (he used to say that psionics were benevolent in his world when he meant that they were prevalent. It wasn't until he said that psions were as common as mages a sentence later that my confusion -"wait, you mean these psions are all really nice guys?"- that I realized what he meant. This repetion you hate so much and call laziness is really, I think, the designers making sure things are explained clearly so that all the players can understand what they mean.
I don’t. I think it’s just page filler, a way to pad the page count. One of the gamers at my table is probably one of the nicest people in the world, and I wouldn’t trade his friendship for love or money, but he has horrible problems with the English language (sort of like your friend above, but probably worse), constantly mangling words and getting meanings mixed up. He knows what he means though, but it takes a few questions to get the message to the rest of us. He, along with the rest of my group, find the repetition in the books to be annoying and a waste of paper. Seriously, ask your group and see if anyone finds that the reprinting of the PrC right after it’s been described as useful. Aside from, perhaps, plucking the NPC out to use as an actual NPC in your game, it’s just padding. Also, do YOU find it useful, or do you just glaze over it to get to the next PrC?
But, if your happy with it, then great. But, and I don’t mean this to be offensive at all, I think you are reaching at straws. I could be totally wrong, though, wouldn’t be the first time. :)
RE: the rehashing of existing PrC’s:
Maybe that’s just me, but I’m really starting to see a lot of patterns. Like, they change the full BaB to a Cleric’s BaB, then replace Power X with Power Z.
Then again, perhaps that’s just the structure that all PrC’s are built upon, and I’m just sick of seeing so many boring PrC’s, or just so many PrC’s in general. I like them well enough as a game mechanic, but there just seem to be a glut of them. I’ve read posts at the WoTC forums where people LOVE the wealth of PrC’s that are constantly coming out. So, it doesn’t bother all that much, knowing that some people are having fun with it.
quote:
I think the lack of flavorful feats is all in your mind. Flavor depends on how you look at something and how you can imagine it fitting into the world, not the descriptive text associated with the feat. I think the designers purposefully feats without "flavor" to allow DM's and players to create flavor of their own. It's your job as a DM and as a player to interpret what the feats you select say about your character when combined as a whole, not the designer. Otherwise you get niche-oriented crunch the likes of which you complained about just a paragraph earlier. The game doesn't come with flavor packets like a package of ramen, you have to season it yourself and employ your own imagination to make the dish -to continue my food analogy- a flavorful and enoyable one.
Hmm, Nice analogy! Now I’m hungry!
Also, your right; to much flavor text in a feat will make it to niche. I think I’ll have to drop that part of my complaints. Thanks, I hate running around sounding like a fool. ^_^
So, I guess I’m just left with the fact that WoTC loads the book with padding, and I still find that insulting.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That's bugged me as well... They do the same thing with templates, and it's all just a waste of space.
Oh yea! I forgot about the template padding. I agree fully.
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And Blue, to your on topic post: (I have to break this double posting habbit.)
You just described every GM I had from ages 10 to 15. ….including myself. >.<
I have a question though; how was the Elan worked in? Not the character specificly, but the race in general. Any problems working them into the realms? Or was the game to chaotic for anyone to really notice?
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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The Blue Sorceress
Learned Scribe
107 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 19:24:46
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[quote
And Blue, to your on topic post: (I have to break this double posting habit.)
You just described every GM I had from ages 10 to 15. ….including myself. >.<
I have a question though; how was the Elan worked in? Not the character specificly, but the race in general. Any problems working them into the realms? Or was the game to chaotic for anyone to really notice?[/quote]
Well, the game I ran wasn't too terribly chaotic, the players just breezed through the challenges I put before them as if they were a bunch of 20th level character facing a pair of inept orc guards. It was incredibly frustrating. I think the only problem I had with the elan was that they can use their resiliance supernatural trait to negate 2 points of damage for every power point they spend, so the elan psychic warrior was practically unkillable so long as he had a decent number of power points in reserve.
I fit them into the Realms as an off-shoot of that psionic group in IIRC, Evereska, and since the game was taking place mostly in a homemade town up in the North and the player didn't make it known that he was any different than any of the other party memebers, it really wasn't an issue. As much as I like the elan though, I think I'd nerf the resiliance ability. It's waaaaay too powerful. Normally I'd just adjust the encounters to be more difficult, for example not letting the centaur charge, or throwing something of a higher than normal CR at them but between the elan and the centaur it wasn't much of a challenge. It didn't help that I let the group have an NPC wizard to do their arcane spellcasting. (As a side note, if you ever play a centaur with the various mounted combat feats and the tendancy to use a lance to attack, make sure you have a party wizard that can cast Enlarge Person or the like. Obscene and shocking damage rolls will result... especially if you crit. *shudders* Poor green dragons never stood a chance...)
So, yeah, the elan fit in nicely, and the game was a lot of fun, but the incredible power of some of the characters was a little bit much to handle. Hey, it was only my 2nd time DMing anything more than a one-shot, so all in all it turned out pretty well.
-Blue |
Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
I see your walrus and raise you a carpenter |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 20:00:01
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Well, Jindael and Blue Sorcerer... you two let me with only one thing to do:
 clap! clap! clap! clap!
To aplause and to congratulate you for this very very useful, healthy and inteligent posts. A very good discussion like that deserve goes to the halls of knowledge (Alaundo, scribes of Oghma, where are you?), to remember us forever of yours very kindly ways to state your diferent points of view.
This is something that touch me deeply, and I will carry your words with me for a long long time
Yuri "Chosen of Moradin" Peixoto, really wanting find some roleplayers like that 2 |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2005 : 00:19:47
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Sure, I'll game with you, Chosen of Moradin. Let me just explain to my girlfriend that I'm flying to Brazil with a woman I met online to play D&D.
I like Candlekeep because none of the disagreements devolve into "You R teh sux0r!!11eleven." |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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The Blue Sorceress
Learned Scribe
107 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2005 : 01:38:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
Sure, I'll game with you, Chosen of Moradin. Let me just explain to my girlfriend that I'm flying to Brazil with a woman I met online to play D&D.
Yeah, I'm not so sure my boyfriend would like that so much either. Maybe we can ship you north.
I like Candlekeep because none of the disagreements devolve into "You R teh sux0r!!11eleven."
[/quote]
And there's less stupid than at the WotC boards.
Wut r Drzizt's stats 4 35E plz? He's lyk tottly k3wl and stfu, and I want 2 pley him 4 a game my frind is Dm'ng, and this grl I now is goingto play Catty-Bree, butt I dont lyk his sttas in the FR campain steting. Dont U think he shuld B mor powerfal? Lol! He culd tottly kil Elinminstar in lyk 1 rownd. LOL! ^_^ OK, I;m goin gto go. PLZ tel me abot Dritzzt.
PS; if U have Catty bree"s stats 2, can u tel me wut they R 2? LOL! R2-D2! (I want them 2 hev sex so this girl wil lyk me. It wuld be hawt!) K, bi ^_^
PPS" My bst freind iz making Saiya-jins form DBZ for his game. How wuld U guys (and girls, LOL!) state them? I wuz thiking plus20 2 all of thier scors. Thwy wuld be so k3wl to pl4y. LOL! Cn U piture the LOok on Loths faceif she had to figt a Super Saiya-jin? LOL!
K, bi 4 real this tyme. LOL. I tak 2 much. -_-;;
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Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
I see your walrus and raise you a carpenter |
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The Blue Sorceress
Learned Scribe
107 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2005 : 01:43:27
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quote:
Originally posted by The Blue Sorceress
quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
Sure, I'll game with you, Chosen of Moradin. Let me just explain to my girlfriend that I'm flying to Brazil with a woman I met online to play D&D.
Yeah, I'm not so sure my boyfriend would like that so much either. Maybe we can ship you north.
I like Candlekeep because none of the disagreements devolve into "You R teh sux0r!!11eleven."
And there's less stupid than at the WotC boards. If I see one more post that even vaguely resembles this I'm going to need to be sedated:
Wut r Drzizt's stats 4 35E plz? He's lyk tottly k3wl and stfu, and I want 2 pley him 4 a game my frind is Dm'ng, and this grl I now is goingto play Catty-Bree, butt I dont lyk his sttas in the FR campain steting. Dont U think he shuld B mor powerfal? Lol! He culd tottly kil Elinminstar in lyk 1 rownd. LOL! ^_^ OK, I;m goin gto go. PLZ tel me abot Dritzzt.
PS; if U have Catty bree"s stats 2, can u tel me wut they R 2? LOL! R2-D2! (I want them 2 hev sex so this girl wil lyk me. It wuld be hawt!) K, bi ^_^
PPS" My bst freind iz making Saiya-jins form DBZ for his game. How wuld U guys (and girls, LOL!) state them? I wuz thiking plus20 2 all of thier scors. Thwy wuld be so k3wl to pl4y. LOL! Cn U piture the LOok on Loths faceif she had to figt a Super Saiya-jin? LOL!
K, bi 4 real this tim. LOL. I tak 2 much. -_-;;
Ugh.... it hurts me just to try and think like that. And the thing is, if it was someone who didn't speak English as their first language, it would be more easily forgiven. God only knows how hard is was for me to learn to read and write Japanese, but when some kid from the US can't spell or type I feel the strange urge to reach through the screen and throttle the poster.
-Blue
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Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
I see your walrus and raise you a carpenter |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6662 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2005 : 04:58:54
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That was pretty painful to read. Thankfully Candlekeep has so far avoided those types of postings.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36797 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2005 : 05:22:41
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
That was pretty painful to read. Thankfully Candlekeep has so far avoided those types of postings.
-- George Krashos
I'll second that one.... I'm active on two forums (this one far more than the other). In both cases, the forum is not the official one supported by the people behind the game. And thus, both forums avoid those kinds of posters. 'Tis a great thing, thinks I.
But you do have to give her points for accuracy -- especially the fact that she misspelled "Drizzt" in two different ways! I did see people do that when I was still on the WotC forums... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36797 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2005 : 05:23:50
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Krash, is your avatar evolving?
For some reason, a pot and a kettle come to mind... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Topic |
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Unusual experiences with the Realms
