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MojoGM
Acolyte
USA
13 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 15:18:12
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Hey all,
Long time lurker here. I need the help of some Cormyr scholars to shake up the Realms a bit.
Here is my train of thought:
Awhile ago I read about some story about the Royal Family of England and how there was a first child way back in the line that should have been the next to get the throne, and if you followed the line down it made some truck driver from Wales the true king.
Nothing ever happened with it (that I recall seeing) but it got me thinking:
What if in the past there was a first-born child that for some reason did not grow up with the family. Maybe he was thought dead, and raised by another noble family? It doesn't have to be true, just feasible. And there can be some written proof that pops up (again, whether it is genuine or a forgery is an open question).
Anyway, it just so happens that if you follow this revised line, the real king would be this noble who just so happens to be building support.
I can see all sorts of cool adventures centering around the documents themselves and the unrest and challenge to the throne.
At this point I'm still in the planning stages, but would like to start planting the seeds for this.
Thus, I come to you for help. What do you all know about the royal line? How far back can the anomaly occur, and what family do you think could fit the bill?
Any ideas would be appreciated! (because I'm not sure where to go with this)
Thanks!
~Chris (MojoGM)
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We Must Believe in Free Will, We Have No Choice |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 15:45:21
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quote:
Originally posted by MojoGM
Any ideas would be appreciated! (because I'm not sure where to go with this)
Thanks!
~Chris (MojoGM)
Are you set on this specific idea? Because Cormyr had a civil war not that long ago. Although different in origins from your own, it would present wonderful opportunities for role-playing. |
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MojoGM
Acolyte
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 15:57:46
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Hi Sirius,
My game is set in 1372 (currently Uktar), so it probably has to be something new.
 I know, I'm really not cutting Cormyr a break, they've just been through a lot but I figure one can always shake the tree a little more.
I'm not dead-set on the idea, so I'm definately open to suggestions/revisions on the plan.
What was the recent civil war? I know there was one in the past (in the Cormyr Novel) and the recent Ghazneth thing with the dragon (and the death of Azoun). But hey, it's been almost a year without a crisis, and I'd like to drastically change the nation and cause even more trouble. |
We Must Believe in Free Will, We Have No Choice |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 16:12:44
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quote:
Originally posted by MojoGM
What was the recent civil war? I know there was one in the past (in the Cormyr Novel)
That was the one I mentioned.
quote:
But hey, it's been almost a year without a crisis, and I'd like to drastically change the nation and cause even more trouble.
Good luck then and have fun with your campaign.
SB |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 16:33:27
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| Well Azoun IV has many, many, many children that are not from his queen.... I'm sure some where, in the past, some of those children of the royal line had to cause trouble, so why can't Azoun IV's do the same? :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 18 Apr 2005 16:34:31 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 17:21:22
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a) Kill Filfaeril
b) Kill Alusair
c) Kill Azoun V
Stir briskly.
Instant civil war! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 17:28:47
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The Obarskyrs are a lusty bunch... I'm sure that in Cormyr's history there were many times that the king's first-born was not the heir to the throne...
With that in mind, it may be a bit more difficult to make a case as to why this royal bastard should get the throne instead of that one, or why either should get the throne over someone who is/was an Obarskyr heir by blood and marriage.
Oh, and if you go too far back, then you'd wind up with the issue of whose royal blood was the most recent... Some might favor one of Azoun IV's illegitimate kids, some might say this illegitimate grandson of Rhigaerd II is the proper choice... |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 18 Apr 2005 17:34:51 |
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MojoGM
Acolyte
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 18:05:56
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
Well Azoun IV has many, many, many children that are not from his queen.... I'm sure some where, in the past, some of those children of the royal line had to cause trouble, so why can't Azoun IV's do the same? :)
This was my initial thought. But then thought if I go back in history a way it would make for a more convuluted (thus harder to prove false) claim. I'm not even fully decided if it will be true or a totally bogus claim that someone is trying to slip past. |
We Must Believe in Free Will, We Have No Choice |
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MojoGM
Acolyte
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 18:08:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
a) Kill Filfaeril
b) Kill Alusair
c) Kill Azoun V
Stir briskly.
Instant civil war!
Filfaeril...got it
Alusair...sounds good.
Azoun V....I think I'll leave him alive...for possible future storylines.
The question becomes, how to kill them in a plausible manner? They are very well protected and Alusair is a dangerous opponent herself. |
We Must Believe in Free Will, We Have No Choice |
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MojoGM
Acolyte
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 18:11:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Oh, and if you go too far back, then you'd wind up with the issue of whose royal blood was the most recent... Some might favor one of Azoun IV's illegitimate kids, some might say this illegitimate grandson of Rhigaerd II is the proper choice...
Good idea...the question now becomes which past king and the details...
Maybe a scenario where the firstborn son was thought dead (through some trickery) and moved to another family to replace a lost child...I don't know...I feel there is something here I just need to put it all together. |
We Must Believe in Free Will, We Have No Choice |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 21:33:27
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You know... In another fantasy setting known to at least a couple of us, there was a guy named Erik. Erik's mother had been married in a secret, private ceremony to the local baron. But then the king called on the baron to marry someone else (for political reasons), and the first marriage was annulled. And the priest who performed the ceremony had, as I recall, died in the interim, as well.
So when the mother popped up claiming her son was the baron's firstborn, she had no proof. There was nothing to refute her claim, but nothing to back it up, either. The baron simply kept quiet about it.
I'm tossing this out in case it might offer some inspiration. |
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elven_songstress
Learned Scribe
126 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 21:59:18
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Well you could always have Alusair have a child that pops up and wants the throne and trys to take it, killing his mother whom doesn;t have the heart to strike down her own, and his grandmother a casualty of the insueing battle.
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We need to be reminded sometimes that a sunrise lasts but a few minutes,but its beauty can burnin our hearts eternally." |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2005 : 23:52:56
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| Hmm... what Wooly mentioned earlier about illigitamate children had me remember something. In the novel Cormyr, there was a Red Wizardress who had charmed King Azoun IV with her spells. It was during the time of Gondegal's rebellion in Arabel. She had "bedded" him and according to the Red Wizardress before her demise, she announced that she had given birth to a child of the king. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2005 : 00:24:01
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Flash points for a civil war
1) The many Iligitimate children of Azoun IV
2)Both Arabel and Marsember have revolted against Suzail in the past
3)The nation is not in good shape in recent years, the King and Crown Princess have died, theres been a conspiracy to over throw the Royal family, theres been famine in Cormyr due to work of the Shades, and the Devil Dragon and its allies have rampaged across the country side
4) Tilverton has been destroyed by the war with Shade and Arabel was sacked by the Devil Dragons forces
5) There are quite a few groups wanting "Regime change" in Cormyr, these include the Fire Knives, Sembia, Various Cormyrian Noble families who feel they can do a better job, the Banite Zhents, the Darkhold Cyricist Zhents and Shade Enclave |
I am the King of Rome, and above grammar
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
Edited by - Dargoth on 19 Apr 2005 00:24:37 |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2005 : 00:34:00
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| Hey, what was that saying about Arabel? "A rebel in Arabel." Lol. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2005 : 00:40:33
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Hey, what was that saying about Arabel? "A rebel in Arabel." Lol.
They never caught the guy who started Arabels last revolt, I believe his name was Gondgal or something similar and I hear he ended up in Ravensloft |
I am the King of Rome, and above grammar
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2005 : 00:49:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Hey, what was that saying about Arabel? "A rebel in Arabel." Lol.
They never caught the guy who started Arabels last revolt, I believe his name was Gondgal or something similar and I hear he ended up in Ravensloft
Yup. The Mists grabbed him as he was following the age-old tradition of trying to save his skin. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2005 : 02:39:17
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| Wooly, could you perhaps provide more detail on this? I've never heard about what happened to Gondegal... |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2005 : 02:40:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
They never caught the guy who started Arabels last revolt, I believe his name was Gondgal or something similar and I hear he ended up in Ravensloft
Gondegal, the "Lost King." More information about his rebellion can be found in the Cormyr accessory in the History section of Arabel. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2005 : 03:03:23
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Wooly, could you perhaps provide more detail on this? I've never heard about what happened to Gondegal...
I don't recall there being too much info beyond that... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2005 : 18:28:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Wooly, could you perhaps provide more detail on this? I've never heard about what happened to Gondegal...
I don't recall there being too much info beyond that...
I recalled reading a bit about Gondegal in a Ravenloft product review a couple of years ago. A search of the web produced the following link. I've posted the mention of Gondegal below:
quote:
The DMs attached notes are a mixed bag of effects but usually quite positive. Azalin and Vlad Dracov remain more or less unchanged from their old write-ups but it is good to see the Old Lich King back in action. Death is no longer a crazy one-dimensional sorcerer but more a force of nature (he is a negative energy elemental) which is more frightening in my opinion. Victor Mordheim has his science levels written up and extensive levels of expert, which open up a great number of vistas in third edition. Gondegal (from Forgotten Realms Arabel) is included as Vlad Dracovs continuing nemesis.
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2005 : 22:19:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Flash points for a civil war
1) The many Iligitimate children of Azoun IV
2)Both Arabel and Marsember have revolted against Suzail in the past
3)The nation is not in good shape in recent years, the King and Crown Princess have died, theres been a conspiracy to over throw the Royal family, theres been famine in Cormyr due to work of the Shades, and the Devil Dragon and its allies have rampaged across the country side
4) Tilverton has been destroyed by the war with Shade and Arabel was sacked by the Devil Dragons forces
5) There are quite a few groups wanting "Regime change" in Cormyr, these include the Fire Knives, Sembia, Various Cormyrian Noble families who feel they can do a better job, the Banite Zhents, the Darkhold Cyricist Zhents and Shade Enclave
I think these are great points, Dargoth... indeed there are a lot of illegitimate heirs to the Dragon Throne around. Not to mention the powerful enemies of Cormyr, who would all probably like to see a weak-willed (possibly mind-controlled) puppet king on the throne.
It is also a good point that Sembia and Cormyr have also had their share of disputes, and the wealthy merchant country surely has resources to hire any number of mercenaries or adventurers to do the dirty deed.
I think the most ambitious (and disloyal) noble families would each try to produce their own "legal heir" to the throne - and split into cabals - in case a new contestant to the throne would appear.
I think that the possibility for a civil war in Cormyr is very real. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2005 : 00:45:21
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The reference to Gondegal ending up in Ravenloft is actually a small snippet in FR13 Anauroch accessory. I recall Ed saying once that TSR asked him for a list of NPCs to do some 'stuff with' and he gave it to them and included Gondegal. Next thing he heard, Gondegal was in Ravenloft. IIRC, the sentence in FR13 wasn't written by Ed but added in after his draft submission.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2005 : 02:50:42
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The reference to Gondegal ending up in Ravenloft is actually a small snippet in FR13 Anauroch accessory. I recall Ed saying once that TSR asked him for a list of NPCs to do some 'stuff with' and he gave it to them and included Gondegal. Next thing he heard, Gondegal was in Ravenloft. IIRC, the sentence in FR13 wasn't written by Ed but added in after his draft submission.
-- George Krashos
It was also in the first Ravenloft boxed set, where Gondegal got a full write-up (albeit a short one). |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2005 : 03:37:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The reference to Gondegal ending up in Ravenloft is actually a small snippet in FR13 Anauroch accessory. I recall Ed saying once that TSR asked him for a list of NPCs to do some 'stuff with' and he gave it to them and included Gondegal. Next thing he heard, Gondegal was in Ravenloft. IIRC, the sentence in FR13 wasn't written by Ed but added in after his draft submission.
-- George Krashos
It was also in the first Ravenloft boxed set, where Gondegal got a full write-up (albeit a short one).
And still, in the 3e updates, we see that Gondegal has retained his place in Ravenloft but is now instead simply referred to as "the Lost King". Any mention to his time before Ravenloft refers to a world known for a powerful "forest kingdom".
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2005 : 15:08:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
I think the most ambitious (and disloyal) noble families would each try to produce their own "legal heir" to the throne - and split into cabals - in case a new contestant to the throne would appear.
I think that the possibility for a civil war in Cormyr is very real.
In my campaign a number of nobles had a secret organization called the Knights of Immeresk ... named after one of the sub-kingdoms that Cormyr eventualy absorbed. Their goal had long been the reestablishment of the kingdom of Immeresk, and this became a real possibility following the sacking of Old Cormyr North, the death of Azoun IV, the placing of an untested infant upon the throne, and the destruction of Tilverton.
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"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2005 : 21:07:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Beowulf
In my campaign a number of nobles had a secret organization called the Knights of Immeresk ... named after one of the sub-kingdoms that Cormyr eventualy absorbed. Their goal had long been the reestablishment of the kingdom of Immeresk, and this became a real possibility following the sacking of Old Cormyr North, the death of Azoun IV, the placing of an untested infant upon the throne, and the destruction of Tilverton.
I wish we would have more information about these small kingdoms (such as Esparin) and the other "independent holds" that were eventually swallowed up by Cormyr... Is Immeresk part of "canon" Realmslore, or did you make it up? |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 03:31:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
quote:
Originally posted by Beowulf
In my campaign a number of nobles had a secret organization called the Knights of Immeresk ... named after one of the sub-kingdoms that Cormyr eventualy absorbed. Their goal had long been the reestablishment of the kingdom of Immeresk, and this became a real possibility following the sacking of Old Cormyr North, the death of Azoun IV, the placing of an untested infant upon the throne, and the destruction of Tilverton.
I wish we would have more information about these small kingdoms (such as Esparin) and the other "independent holds" that were eventually swallowed up by Cormyr... Is Immeresk part of "canon" Realmslore, or did you make it up?
Immeresk isn't canon. As for information on the small kingdoms, I'll see what I can do... |
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 06:15:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Is Immeresk part of "canon" Realmslore, or did you make it up?
I'm not sure if it's part of canon or not. Garen Thal is probably right.
To boot, someone else, over on the Realms-L list, made it up. |
"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 18:03:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
Immeresk isn't canon. As for information on the small kingdoms, I'll see what I can do...
One of Edīs Dragon articles mentioned at least one keep in eastern Cormyr (near Wheloon?) that was conquered and swallowed up by Cormyr. I donīt have the Dragon, so I cannot be sure.
Thank thee in advance, Garen! If you have any information about the Mages Regal (in addition to what little was revealed in FRCS), and their relation to Sword Heralds, please tell us 
Also, if you happen to know when the Sword Heralds were founded, and when they went into "hiding", Iīd be very grateful! (VGtC only mentions that they were active "hundreds of years ago") |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2005 : 18:19:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
One of Edīs Dragon articles mentioned at least one keep in eastern Cormyr (near Wheloon?) that was conquered and swallowed up by Cormyr. I donīt have the Dragon, so I cannot be sure.
Hullack Hall. Dragon #281.quote:
Thank thee in advance, Garen! If you have any information about the Mages Regal (in addition to what little was revealed in FRCS), and their relation to Sword Heralds, please tell us
I'm afraid I have no information at all to share on this matter.quote:
Also, if you happen to know when the Sword Heralds were founded, and when they went into "hiding", Iīd be very grateful! (VGtC only mentions that they were active "hundreds of years ago")
According to Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves, the Sword Heralds started operating circa 620DR. In Cloak and Dagger, Khelben Arunson is said to have worked with this elusive group in or around 1070DR. Any other information is, at this point, mostly conjecture. |
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Help me start a civil war in Cormyr
