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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Apr 2005 : 20:08:31
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Ok, three appologies up front: 1) This is much more crunchy than many discussions that I see here, but frankly I trust and like you guys more than the ones on the WotC boards, so I'm tossing the question to you, 2) I'm not really sure which forum this should be under, so I just went for the broadest, 3) This may be an old topic, but I searched the boards and couldn't find any posts about it, so if I'm rehashing old news, just point me to the other thread.
That said, I've been trying to understand the concept of runes and runecasters as described in PGtF, and I'm having a really hard time. Specifically, (purely from a standpoint of rules and not roleplaying), why would one want to inscribe runes instead of write scrolls or craft wands?
The only advantages I see to runes are: 1) In one feat you get the equivalent of two, and since it's a priest class that's kinda nice, and 2) you can create "wands" with spells above 4th level.
Other than that, nothing makes sense. The runes cost too much, both in GP and XP, compared to their scroll/wand equivalents. I ran a whole bunch of numbers (Excel spreadsheets are fun), and came up with one inescapable conclusion: runes on all levels are anywhere between 2 and 5 times the cost of equivalents, without really giving any benefits to counterbalance.
Am I missing something? Are they actually better than they seem? Has anyone played with these in their campaign? Even halving the GP cost across the board didn't really fix the problem (though it did for the scroll-types), it just made it somewhat unfair instead of grossly unfair. Any comments would be very helpfull.
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Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2005 : 14:09:12
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I see your point Hoondatha, and as a big fan of runes (and dwarves) it is a shame that runecasters are burdened so. Of course, the reason why you would play a runecaster is not for the game mechanics but the flavour.
That said, I've been throwing runes and runecasting around in my little noggin of late, and been thinking of Ed's answer to my 'elder runes' query a while back. From a game mechanics point of view, I've been thinking of cooking up an 'scribe elder rune'-type feat which allows you to tack on an elder rune onto a normal scribed rune. The elder runes provide all sorts of bonuses (likely metamagic type stuff) and at higher levels you'd be able to link more elder runes to the 'primary' rune. I'd not add any cost other than a longer transcription time and as such, runecasting would be beefed up considerably - especially depending on what powers you gave elder runes.
Just my thoughts.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2005 : 14:46:01
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It might be useful to look at the mechanics for aboleth glyphs in Lords of Madness. There might be some analogues you could apply to dwarven and giant runecasting.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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green knight
Seeker
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2005 : 15:06:43
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Greetings, if I am not mistaken a Rune may be used (activated) by anyone who has it as opposed to scrolls and wands which require the user to be able to cast spells or the use magic device feat. Which is why it would have a higher cost to create.
Green Knight |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2005 : 18:20:15
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Hmm. Good points, all. George, do you know where that Elder Rune reference is? Ed throws so much at us, I can't keep it all in memory (need a RAM upgrade...  ). Looks like I should have paid more attention to that one.
And thanks for the "anyone activates" thing. I'd forgotten that. Anyone else have experience with runes? |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2005 : 19:04:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Hmm. Good points, all. George, do you know where that Elder Rune reference is? Ed throws so much at us, I can't keep it all in memory (need a RAM upgrade... ). Looks like I should have paid more attention to that one.
And thanks for the "anyone activates" thing. I'd forgotten that. Anyone else have experience with runes?
January 8, 2005: Krash, greetings of the turning season back to you from Ed and from myself. It gives Ed great pleasure to spin a somewhat teasing answer to thy recent query, as follows:
Ah, yes: elder runes.
George, “elder runes” is a collective modern-day Realms term, probably coined by an unknown human sage at least a thousand years ago (because it’s about that long ago that the term gradually seeps into common usage among students and workers of magic), referring to a growing (as they’re “rediscovered”) collection of magical symbols (probably NOT of common origins) used by long-ago workers of magic.
More specifically, we know that some Netherese (and a handful of their scattered descendants, after the fall of that realm) used them, and also that before that, dwarves of Besilmer employed some of what we now call ‘elder runes, ’ and may well have merely augmented and expanded upon runes in use earlier among the Stout Folk. The names now used for many of the known elder runes hint that elves also used them, and adventurers know that certain shamans among the goblinkin (orcs, goblins, and especially hobgoblins) draw them to this day.
There are tales that certain ‘sensitive’ beings can feel the nearby presence of any elder rune, and that runes of the same sort are somehow linked (no matter how distant one drawing of Angras may be from another, teleportation of a person, item, or just a verbal message [emitted aloud but in some cases also stored in the rune until it is next touched, or even after] between them is possible).
Although the runes have acquired ‘wayfarer’ meanings (noting the presence of shelter, for instance), it’s clear they formerly also had other meanings and purposes.
Most of them possessed now-exhausted magical powers, a few still store these magics, and almost all of them, if whole (i.e. the drawn glyph isn’t broken by damage to the drawing or the surface it’s graven upon), can be ‘recharged’ with magic by those who know how.
And there’s the rub: elder runes have magical powers only if imbued with such by many now-forgotten spells that can be cast upon them at any time. Most of the beings still ‘alive’ who know such magics are either dragons or undead (usually liches). It’s certain that some dragons and baelnorn deliberately recharge elder runes often to bolster defenses around lairs, caches, hoards, and ruined dwellings.
In Realmsplay, I’ve never detailed those spells, but used the runes as (usually) harmless ‘dungeon decoration,’ but sometimes as waiting magical traps that unleash just about any spell effect I wanted them to, to enhance whatever unfolding adventure the Knights were currently having. (In short, they were one more of my DM’s ‘bag of tricks,’ useful because their mere presence and numbers could help to ‘steer’ the Knights into or away from a particular doorway or tomb, by hinting that a place was well-guarded or important.) As I recall, THO can impart a particularly fond memory of one elder rune that, ahem, entertained her.
So saith Ed, and yes I can (grrr): a pair of runes, on floor and (lofty, very hard to see from the floor) ceiling, that slammed me back and forth between them many times in a reverse gravity trap that we dubbed a ‘wham wham’ (fall up, slam hard into ceiling, activate elder rune, fall down to slam hard on the floor, reactivating the rune there to make you fall up again - - and, of course, lather, rinse, and repeat). I got plenty tired of that one, believe you me.
love to all,
THO |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 14 Apr 2005 19:04:25 |
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3e Runes and Runecasters
