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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
 Posted - 16 May 2008 : 13:20:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Brunswick
Personally, I think Fzoul had something to do with the Stasis Clone spell 'malfunctioning' (if it did). He made a deal at one point with Khelben for the "Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings" and in 1369 (the year before he slays Manshoon, the GHoTR states that Fzoul is temporarily possessed by Xvim and also that he "meets secretly in Voonlar, where Khelben provides Fzoul with information about Lord Orgauth, and Fzoul vows to limit the Xvimlar's eastward expansion for 10,000 days". Then in 1380, Fzoul slays Manshoon and purges the Zhentarim of Manshoons supporters. This seems like a massive leap in power for Fzoul (who I always, perhaps mistakenly, considered to be somewhat inferior to Manshoon) and I'm just wondering if Khelben assisted Fzoul more than the GHoTR lets on and it was him who manipulated Manshoon's stasis clone and/or helped Fzoul with knowledge to slay Manshoon. 
Just my 2 coppers...
Bruns. 
I don't see how Fzoul could have had anything to do with Manshoon's misfire. It would require a fair bit of magical knowledge to pull off something like that. And Fzoul is not and never has been a wizard... Besides, the text of Cloak & Dagger clearly indicates that Fzoul did not expect all the clones to wake up. From page 15 of that book: "Expecting the
usual one stasis clone to become active, the coconspirators found themselves facing two, then three, then four Manshoons at once as they teleported to the Annex to claim their master spellbook (as well as revenge themselves upon the ones who slew their preceding body)."
Ever since I got that book (the first time), I've found it telling that the awakening of the vampire Manshoon has its own timeline entry, separate from the other entry about the Manshoon Wars starting. The vampire entry is actually first, which implies the vampire woke up independently of everything else going on.
That's a lot of why I think the vampire had something to do with the clones all waking up at once. Either it becoming undead and infused with negative energy caused some sort of backlash with the other clones, or Manshoon's spirit was looking for a clone to go to, and one was active, which threw off the magic and caused his spirit to split into all the clones. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 16 May 2008 13:21:29 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2008 : 14:41:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And there was no need to weed out weaker clones, either. All he had to do was come into physical contact with an unactivated clone, and it was fully updated -- memories and levels.
I was unaware of this 'updating' feature.
Perhaps in 4e, he will have gone over to Bluetooth.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 May 2008 14:53:15 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2008 : 15:13:40
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Yeah, it was in the original description, on page 124 of the Campaign Book for the Ruins of Zhentil Keep boxed set. Here's two quotes from the spell description:
quote:
Whenever the original being touches the stasis clone, the clone's memories, skills and experience levels are updated to match the original being's. Purely physical differences, such as aging, a wound, or an amputation the original being has gone through, are not mirrored by the clone in this process.
quote:
Manshoon's stasis clones are obvious targets for those who wish him dead, permanently. Several times his enemies or his rivals in the Inner Circle of the Zhentarim have gone to a great deal of trouble to kill him and destroy all of his stasis clones, only to find that Manshoon had squirreled away one or two they had missed. One reason that Manshoon has not advanced to a higher level as a wizard is undoubtedly the cumulative loss of a great deal of experience because of the lag between newly activated clones that had not been recently updated and previous, now-dead Manshoon incarnations.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 16 May 2008 15:20:35 |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2008 : 15:28:33
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[quote]Wooly!That's a lot of why I think the vampire had something to do with the clones all waking up at once. Either it becoming undead and infused with negative energy caused some sort of backlash with the other clones, or Manshoon's spirit was looking for a clone to go to, and one was active, which threw off the magic and caused his spirit to split into all the clones.[/i]
Hmmm. . . I'd have to agree on the vampirism part, it could be that the stasis effect was stopped when there were two Manshoons active. A timeline theory;
Fzoul and Orgauth kill Manshoon.
Manshoon clone in Westgate activates only to find it is a vampire.
Since the vampire Manshoon clone is "dead" the spell effect activates another Manshoon.
Now there are two Manshoons active, which disrupts the stasis effect on the rest of the clones releasing them.
That makes some sense to me anyways. :) |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1727 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2008 : 14:10:15
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Hehehehehehehehe.....
So glad that my little plot still obfuscates and generates ideas ten years later....
Steven
whose favorite Cloak & Dagger image of the Manshoon Wars is the one in Waterdeep with Laeral, Kyriani, and two Manshoons....I really should have statted up that "lion-shaped-body-shield" spell as it was a fun visual variant..... |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2008 : 14:31:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Hehehehehehehehe.....
So glad that my little plot still obfuscates and generates ideas ten years later....
Steven
whose favorite Cloak & Dagger image of the Manshoon Wars is the one in Waterdeep with Laeral, Kyriani, and two Manshoons....I really should have statted up that "lion-shaped-body-shield" spell as it was a fun visual variant.....
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/CnD/38.jpg
Part of the reason I still love that book is because the Manshoon Wars and the Harper Schism were simply wonderful ideas, with years' worth of potential fun in each one. And then WotC pissed me off by nixing the first one in the 3E FRCS, and we've found out that the second one, after being left in Limbo for most of 3E, is being kicked to the curb in 4E. Not running with such great ideas is part of what really makes me question the way decisions are being made there. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 17 May 2008 14:41:38 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2008 : 17:00:23
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Anything created by people outside of the curerent team is on the chopping block these days - obviuosly they feel only their lore is 'good enough'.
Damn Shame much of Ed's 50,000 words got cut, but I saw that coming. Of course, we could always pay for the DDi, where they will feed it to us in bits and drabs.
Anyhow, thats neither here nor there, and this is the wrong place for it.
On Topic:
Is there any spell/device/effect that can alter someone's sex, as was done by Mystra to El?
I've always likened the 'Manshoon Wars' to Marvel Comics "Cross-time Kangs", and I got a kick out of the fact that several 'alternate kangs' were female.
So, imagine if you will, some 'skanky' wizard coming across a Manshoon clone, and altering it to become his 'sex slave'. then the stasis-effect screws up (as per canon), and the thing 'awakens' and kills it's 'master' (slowly... )
Can you imagine how upset Manshoon would be to find himself stuck in a female body? He's always struck me as abit of a 'male-chauvenist pig', so it would be interesting.
Also, calling him 'WoManshoon' just tickles me to death.
Of course, we already have a 'shoon' walking around in a 'hot girl's' body, so that might be a bit redundant.
So, is there anything in canon I can say happened to change his sex, or do I just have to pull a DM's caveat here?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 May 2008 23:54:41 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2008 : 21:09:11
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There was a cursed item in 2E... From the 2E DMG:
quote:
Girdle of Femininity/Masculinity: This broad leather band appears to be a normal belt, but, if buckled on, it will immediately change the sex of its wearer to the opposite gender. It then loses all power. There is no sure way to restore the character's original sex, although there is a 50% chance a wish might do so, and a powerful being can alter the situation. In other words, it takes a godlike creature to set matters aright with certainty. Ten percent of these girdles actually remove all sex from the wearer.
I'd imagine a variant polymorph could do it, too. Or a wish. Or maybe some nifty arcane ritual, or a Netherese artifact...
There are also the anime methods, like a fall into the wrong pond at Jusenkyo. An anime RPG I have includes an item called a Boy/Girl Gun.
On the WotC boards, I once saw where someone had made a Manshoon clone both female and good-aligned. I want to say the name of the clone was Mashiara Penitent. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 17 May 2008 21:10:56 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2008 : 00:11:58
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Great Find Wooly, thanks for the info.
When I first heard about 4e, I had decide to move my timeline forward only a decade or so, not using 4e FR, but using the 4e rules. As I worked out what happened to various NPCs after the Spellpague hit (briefly), I pegged manshoon as a cross between Dr. Doom and Edward from FMA. Basicaly, he was performing a ritual while the magic went wild, and his soul (I suppose he does have one) got 'fused' to his armor. So basically, he is a Lich (of sorts), and hs Armor had become his phylactory. Parts of his physical form also became fused with the armor (he was basically 'cooked' inside of it), so he cannot remove it, nor would he want to (it would be pretty gross).
I pictured him becoming something akin to a half-Golem, and give him a few characteristics of Warforged in the mix.
He also had a daughter, who didn't know she was his daughter, who would work against his schemes. He was aware of the conection, but would avoid killing her (weather he has feelings, or he just likes to keep some of his living DNA walking around I haven't decided). It sounds like that other WotC poster had similar ideas, using a clone.
I was trying to project all of the current plots and intrigues forward 10-20 years (my campaign was already set ahead 10), and that was justone of the thins I imagined in the new post-spellplague world of 1395 DR.
Since then, I have decided not to move forward with FR, so that plot goes unused, but I figured I'd post it here in case anyone wanted to use it.
Hey! I just realized... I turned Manshoon into Aniken Skywalker! |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2008 : 02:07:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Damn Shame much of Ed's 50,000 words got cut, but I saw that coming. Of course, we could always pay for the DDi, where they will feed it to us in bits and drabs.
Even that seems like a "maybe" as far as I can tell (due to past experience). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2008 : 02:36:41
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True.
They just went from the beta to the Alpha of the DDi, and the ONLY difference I have noticed is that my PM screen now brings me through that ugly Gleemax server.
Still NO gaming table, or any of the 'cool' features we are being promised... sometime down the road... after subscribing... 
I'm still waiting for the fnished version of that CD that came with my 3.0 DMG and PHB. 
Anyway, Manshoon has SO much potential as a villain that I hope they do something clever with him in 4e. He never seemed to grow beyond how Ed originaly presented him, and thats a shame. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2009 : 08:37:47
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So what do we know about Manshoon in 1479 DR?
His Vampire clone is still around, anything else? |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 05:05:35
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The "anything else" is easy: whatever you want, and have the time and creative energy to come up with on your own (or find in these wonderful scrolls). Because that's all we have now.
Edit: Of course, we're still pretty well off for all of that, thanks to Ed and THO. I'm not about to end another post on a gloomy note. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 22 Nov 2009 05:10:21 |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 08:40:52
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Ah, Manshoon, second only to Larloch in the super-awesome world-shaking mage. And, of course, second only to him as the character that really deserves a novel but never got one. As for what he's up to now, I must say I quite like Ed's idea, "I prefer to think the REAL Manshoon is in hiding somewhere, watching his “lesser selves” operating, and awaiting his chance to strike at Fzoul at the same time as one of his clones does." It just adds that extra level of awesome to Manshoon, and certainly makes sense. Fzoul was a threat, but a fairly mortal one -- Manshoon saw that, retreated (causing all kind of chaos by releasing the clones), and then watched with glee as Fzoul fell with Zhentil Keep.
He seems intelligent enough to me to recognize the obvious benefits of immortality -- including the ability to act in the background, slowly manipulating people to do what you want rather than trying to get it done in a set amount of time. So the Zhentarim's weak now -- will be it still be weak in 100 years? 200? Let people think they know what he's up to, and he's got the perfect cover. Besides, stasis clones are old -- I wouldn't put it past Manshoon to have something entirely new up his sleeve by now.
Of course, that's just how I see it. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 11:45:16
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I know I would read a Manshoon novel. 
Set during the Manshoon Wars! |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 15:35:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
I know I would read a Manshoon novel.
Set during the Manshoon Wars!
I've suggested this as an entire series -- each book could follow a different clone. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2009 : 19:17:13
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Hell, I'd read one about Manshoon's daily eating habits. He's just way too awesome to exist only in sourcebooks.
Only Orbakh's left, now, so I suppose we have to hedge our bets with him. Doesn't seem impossible that he could get a novel, especially since he's never been used by anyone, and he's one of the very, very few characters to actually be mentioned in the FRCG. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 03:47:26
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Is there any way to let WotC know we want a book about Manshoon (and presumably which Manshoon)? Will writing letters help at all?
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Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 04:02:50
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It's been attempted before, as I recall. Along with a petition on the Wizards message boards. But, like a novel set to detailing about Bane's return, WotC have said that it's highly unlikely. And given that, aside from RAS and Ed, most all FR fiction will be set after the Spellplague, we're unlikely to see any future treatment of the old Manshoon unless it's by the hand of the Ol' Bearded One himself.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 04:14:01
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Maybe Manshoon will be in, or at least mentioned in "Elminster Must Die".
I just hope the main baddies in "Elminster Must Die" wont be Shades.
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 06:36:22
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quote:
And given that, aside from RAS and Ed, most all FR fiction will be set after the Spellplague, we're unlikely to see any future treatment of the old Manshoon unless it's by the hand of the Ol' Bearded One himself.
At this point, I'd be happy just to see one Orbakh and what he's up to after being chased out of Westgate. It doesn't seem entirely impossible, especially since he's actually mentioned (and statted out) in the FRCG.
As for old Manshoon, aye, I'd quite suspect that opportunity's been lost, what with Wizards' focus on the present. Ah well, once can always dream. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 06:56:28
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I do know one thing. I have started to read up on him.
The funny thing is, in about 3 days another topic will catch my fancy, and off on another rabbit trail I will go. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 17:33:32
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
It's been attempted before, as I recall. Along with a petition on the Wizards message boards. But, like a novel set to detailing about Bane's return, WotC have said that it's highly unlikely. And given that, aside from RAS and Ed, most all FR fiction will be set after the Spellplague, we're unlikely to see any future treatment of the old Manshoon unless it's by the hand of the Ol' Bearded One himself.
Thanks. That was what I was wanting to know. I guess we can only hope that they choose to at least do something with the remaining vampire Manshoon. I suppose we could further hope that any such project will involve flashbacks to when he was still mortal or possibly to at least when there were still a few of him running around.
Of course I suppose the best bet is having Ed write a story about him where he is given control of when and where it is set. |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 19:31:40
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To which I can only respond:
Bwooohahahahahaha!
love,
THO |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 22:35:07
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| Teasing us again THO? |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2009 : 23:55:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
Thanks. That was what I was wanting to know. I guess we can only hope that they choose to at least do something with the remaining vampire Manshoon. I suppose we could further hope that any such project will involve flashbacks to when he was still mortal or possibly to at least when there were still a few of him running around.
Of course I suppose the best bet is having Ed write a story about him where he is given control of when and where it is set.
If you haven't done so already, I'd recommend a reading of the "Knights of Myth Drannor" trilogy. It offers some perspectives on past exploits of Manshoon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 00:24:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandro
Ah, Manshoon, second only to Larloch in the super-awesome world-shaking mage. And, of course, second only to him as the character that really deserves a novel but never got one. As for what he's up to now, I must say I quite like Ed's idea, "I prefer to think the REAL Manshoon is in hiding somewhere, watching his “lesser selves” operating, and awaiting his chance to strike at Fzoul at the same time as one of his clones does." It just adds that extra level of awesome to Manshoon, and certainly makes sense. Fzoul was a threat, but a fairly mortal one -- Manshoon saw that, retreated (causing all kind of chaos by releasing the clones), and then watched with glee as Fzoul fell with Zhentil Keep.
<chop>
Speaking of Larloch: How could he have possibly survived the Spellplague, given what happened to Halruaa? Of course, one could ask the same question of Shade... or did they hide back in the Plane of Shadows while it became the Shadowfell? Holes one could drive a planet through... and did, apparently...
Anyway, back to Manshoon: I like the idea that Halaster's soul wasn't shattered, and simply migrated into the Undermountain Manshoon, taking over his body completely. Of course, atm my group is playing in a Spellplague-free Realms until I can re-storyline the whole thing (great progress has been made, but there's a long way to go yet).
Sage Schend: I won't even ask, because I know it's not likely to happen, but it just seems horrific that all of this beautiful, ostensibly canon lore has been put together about Manshoon, Khelben, and so many others, never to see the light of day because of NDAs and material not seeing print. It has made me go all "X-Files" on the Realms; the truth is out there, but we'll never know it. 
That's all from me on this matter. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 05:18:30
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
Thanks. That was what I was wanting to know. I guess we can only hope that they choose to at least do something with the remaining vampire Manshoon. I suppose we could further hope that any such project will involve flashbacks to when he was still mortal or possibly to at least when there were still a few of him running around.
Of course I suppose the best bet is having Ed write a story about him where he is given control of when and where it is set.
If you haven't done so already, I'd recommend a reading of the "Knights of Myth Drannor" trilogy. It offers some perspectives on past exploits of Manshoon.
I really liked the scene of Manshoon with the Lady wearing only the Knee High boots... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2009 : 07:05:38
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quote:
Speaking of Larloch: How could he have possibly survived the Spellplague, given what happened to Halruaa? Of course, one could ask the same question of Shade... or did they hide back in the Plane of Shadows while it became the Shadowfell? Holes one could drive a planet through... and did, apparently...
Well, to be fair we don't know that he survived the Spellplague (at least, I don't think we know...). However, of all the holes I want to see exploited, it's the spells above ninth level. Any survivor of Netheril ought to know Mystra's limitations, and now that she's gone... All kinds of fun. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2009 : 18:15:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandro
Well, to be fair we don't know that he survived the Spellplague (at least, I don't think we know...). However, of all the holes I want to see exploited, it's the spells above ninth level. Any survivor of Netheril ought to know Mystra's limitations, and now that she's gone... All kinds of fun.
 I'd missed that one thanks to all the stuff that ticked me off. Of course, "spell level" as such no longer exists in 4E, so I guess the Weave had to go just for that alone. Still, it means no barrier to uberspells except by inconsistency... which means we'll see a barrier faster than we can say "inconsistency".
Returning to Manshoon: Wooly (and others), if you have a storyline continuing the Manshoon Wars past where it was unceremoniously swept under the rug for 3E, I'm very interested. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Manshoon
