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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Apr 2005 : 11:28:13
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Page 14, Chapter One of the 3rd Edition DragonLance Campaign Setting recounts that particular theory of Gully Dwarf genesis.
That is actually meant to be "taken" as a cultural racial myth only.
The gully dwarves of Krynn are a derivative of the true dwarven race.
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2010 : 05:27:27
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afaik, it“s no canonical information, but a wonderful writeup nontheless (as are all things from this webpage):
elfings - the children of elves and halflings:
http://myth-drannor.net/DlabraddathNet/z-Cormanthyr/Elflings.htm
anybody know where this has gone or if it still exists? or is it possible someone has it hidden away and would be kind enough to share it with me?
Also interested in Gnelves and Gnomlings. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 20 Dec 2010 05:39:40 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2010 : 07:11:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
IIRC, Drannor was the name of the OFFSPRING of the elf/dwarf marriage, not the elf who married the dwarf. He is buried in the large garden sanctuary in Myth Drannor, I believe, and was a superb craftsman (woodworker, I think?).
It was Labrad -- the product of Drannor Whitethistle [an elf] and Konora Onyxhelm [a dwarf]. He was not specifically named as a "dwelf" however -- just as a "dwarf-elf." And yes... this is where the name of Myth Drannor was derived. See Cormanthyr. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 20 Dec 2010 07:13:21 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2010 : 11:15:33
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There's also Isinghar "Feyrune" Ironstar, described as a dwelf runecarver and archmage of Ammarindar, who was one of the secondary casters in the raising of the mythal over Myth Glaurach. This is from the Myth Glaurach article that was part of the Mintiper's Chapbook series.
The Myth Glaurach article also notes, in the footnotes, that
quote:
Dwarf-elf crossbreeds, known as "dwelf" in the singular and "dwelves" in the plural, are noted as having been common in the days of Eaerlann in FR11 Dwarves Deep, p. 6.
Page 6 of Dwarves Deep says:
quote:
Humans, gnomes, and halflings are cross-fertile with dwarves. Elminster says elves and dwarves can have issue as well. Common in Ardeep, Eaerlann, and Myth Drannor of old, this is unheard-of today.
and
quote:
"Half-dwarves" are not a distinct race. Save for their height (a head taller than most dwarves) all offspring of unions between dwarves and other races look and act (and are treated in the rules) as pureblood dwarves. Dwarven halfbreeds always have the stocky build and hirsute appearance of purebloods.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2010 : 14:03:17
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| One of my players is a half-dwarf. Basically a dwarf with one human parent, almost a foot taller than other dwarves ... makes armour-fitting a bit more expensive. Dwarves generally recognize him as a half-dwarf; humans usually think he's just a short bearded human who pretends to be a dwarf. Not a very exciting "variant race" at all, honestly; my player like dwarves but doesn't like being short. I let him use longbows and ride horses, though he refuses to do much of either. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2010 : 14:35:55
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And a little bit from Steven Schend:-
quote:
"Dwelves....okay, I'll stop myself early before I start doing haiku about stone shelves and dungeon delves....
As stated above (and like half-elves), they favor and adopt the lifestyle/culture under which they are raised. Same goes for which gods they revere.
Both elves and dwarves have serious cognitive dissonance when it comes to dwelves, as (unlike half-elves or half-orcs, IMO) there's no set form or expectation for how they'll look. It's anyone's guess if you'll end up with a dwarf's body size and shape with elven features and ears or an elf's body but stocky vs. svelte and rather hairier than the norm. Dwarven parents may mourn their child's inability to grow a decent beard, thanks to their elven half, while elves may grumble that the child is more interested in the dirt rather than the tree from which it springs. Most likely, they're only comfortable among some societies that embrace acceptance and unity (like Myth Drannor or Miyeritar or elsewhere).
That said, I was surprised by that Myth Glaurach note. Methinks I'll have to talk to Eric and find out what else he's had the Blackstaff up to while I've not been watching....if only for my own curiousity, of course."
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 02:57:47
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| Sage? Wooly? Does that site still exist (see previous post, please)? Also, how about Dwarf/Orc crossbreeds. Dorcs?!? Seriously though, is it possible? has it happened? I think it would make a cool race. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 21 Dec 2010 03:03:54 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 04:02:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Sage? Wooly? Does that site still exist (see previous post, please)?
Not that I know of, but I wasn't familiar with it when it was up. You could always see if it's cached on Google, or you could hit the Internet WayBack Machine. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 05:30:09
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| I'm inclined to think dwarf-orc hybrids do not exist outside of a necromancer's laboratory. Even improbable elf-orc crossbreeds seem more likely. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 07:45:24
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Hey, this discussion is pretty funny!
Well, I have to break it. I think the whole (most) crossbreeding chart was in Book of Erotic Fantasy...18+ age guide. So kids, bugger off that thread!
I remember correctly that it says halflings cannot breed with most races. Race crossbreeding, physiology and pregnancy are the most useful information bits... Aside from other things... |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 08:14:10
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| I think that's human privilege, but I can be wrong. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 11:38:20
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| Humans can (and probably will) breed with anything, it seems. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 22:00:29
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Thanks Wooly! The Way Back Machine did indeed have that.  What a great site. Makes me think of Scooby-Doo and Austin Powers. Also, for the curious, there is a netbook called Races of Consequence that deals with all types of crossbreeds, though I cannot attest to its quality. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 21 Dec 2010 22:02:07 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 23:51:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Also, for the curious, there is a netbook called Races of Consequence that deals with all types of crossbreeds, though I cannot attest to its quality.
Yeah, I'd stay well away from that tome. It takes rather liberal interpretations of existing D&D lore. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 04:33:25
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| One of my players once played a (now long dead) necromancer who had devised Vashleron's Vile Transfusion; he basically needed a "full infusion" of troll blood every couple of weeks to gain their regenerative ability ... it ended up fully transforming him into a typically stupid ugly troll after a few years. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2010 : 11:26:41
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| The wiki page for Planetouched mentions Azerblood (Faerūnian Planetouched descended from Shield Dwarves and Azers) and Maeluth (dwarves with devilish blood). |
[/Ayrik] |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 01:52:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
There's also the tome Bastards and Bloodlines, for those who are interested. forgot who published it. Had some interesting crossbreeds, like the troll-dwarf one that I suspect is going to be the race for my short, hairy, claw-bracer using bbn/rngr PC.... He calls everyone "bub".
 Love the character concept... the publisher of the aforementioned tome is Green Ronin, iirc... it's one of the few OGL titles from them that's missing from my library. 
Edit: troll-dwarf? So is that a twarf? Or is that too droll?  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 24 Dec 2010 01:54:00 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 01:56:22
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Also, for the curious, there is a netbook called Races of Consequence that deals with all types of crossbreeds, though I cannot attest to its quality.
Yeah, I'd stay well away from that tome. It takes rather liberal interpretations of existing D&D lore.
So we can expect it to be declared canon under the new rules then? Yes, I'm kidding. Still, I think I'll track it down and see what it contains. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 02:13:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Also, for the curious, there is a netbook called Races of Consequence that deals with all types of crossbreeds, though I cannot attest to its quality.
Yeah, I'd stay well away from that tome. It takes rather liberal interpretations of existing D&D lore.
So we can expect it to be declared canon under the new rules then? Yes, I'm kidding. Still, I think I'll track it down and see what it contains.
I just realised that I may have unintentionally sparked a somewhat deliberate sense of unfairness against that particular netbook. I didn't mean to imply that others shouldn't check it out for themselves -- merely, from my perspective at least, that because the book doesn't rely solely on D&D lore to flesh the races out, means that it didn't really interest me all that much.
Normally, I don't have a problem with that either. But since I've already plotted a lot of material for cross-breeds in my campaigns, that tends to draw upon nearly 20+ years of my own Realmslore, I found it difficult to properly make use of the info contained in the netbook.
Others can, and obviously will, find it useful in other regards.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 03:17:44
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I reiterate: there is no such thing as 'bad lore' - merely different levels of usefulness depending on how far you need to tweak it.
For example, one of the few cartoons that I absolutely REFUSE to watch is Little Mermaid. God knew how much I can't stand 'girly things' and he was kind enough to bless me with four boys (which made my ex-wife really sad, so in the long-run that was just another plus). Having four boys means I get to buy all sorts of cool action figures and other 'neato' toys... and say it was for them.
It also means I had an excuse to watch all those cartoons for years. 
ANYHOW, that show revolved around one of those 'Disney Princesses', so there was no way in-hell it was ever going on in MY house (with my boys). Recently, while flipping through the channels looking for something to pass the time (I wasn't at home), I looked through all the cartoon channels and Little Mermaid was on. Now normally, I can't turn it off fast enough, but the remote was being stubborn (Batteries low, I assume), so I had to hit the damn button over and over again to get it to change.
HOWEVER, in those few seconds it was 'stuck on', I noticed Ariel (I learned her name - YUCK!) was sad (which made ME happy) because she couldn't play some really cool-looking undersea organ (Sage, take note). I have to admit, it was pretty freaky looking, and that appealed to me (all made out of shells and what-not). Anyhow, in the few moments it had managed to catch my attention, the mermaid (Ariel) tried to play it anyway, and a horrible cacophony ensued.
Which woke the Seaclops. 
YES... SEAclops - it was the top half of a cyclops with the bottom-half of an octopus! How friggin' cool is that? I can't wait to use that on someone!
Thus proving that regardless how wretched some 'lore' may appear, you can still walk away with a few gems.
Oh... and I showered afterward... I felt 'sullied'. Damn Disney.
The top half look something like This Guy.
EDIT: On Topic (sort-of)
In the utter East thread over on WotC, we had been working on some pretty interesting region-specific critters, and one of them was a Drow-Troll crossbreed, called a 'Trow', naturally (which is a RW folklore name for a dark elf-like creature). As a reference, I used the pic of the Thoul from the 2e Mystara MM supplement. That creature looks a lot like one of the creatures from the VG (Blood & Magic) based in that region, which is where we got the initial concept. They live in the Treggi Jungle (although not subterranean, that dense jungle has a very thick canopy, thus keeping the interior very dark and foreboding). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Dec 2010 01:39:36 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 04:10:32
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My position isn't as relativistic - there's plenty of "bad lore" which I'm happy to avoid, lol. Canon and non-canon, Wizbro and third-party, every D&D edition (although, to be fair, Wizbro products generally set high standards which many third-parties attempt to emulate; most "bad lore" is from bygone days). The poor reception above on this Races of Consequence book is enough to keep me away from it; there's books of "good lore" I'd rather buy instead.
I can't find any reference to Maeluth - aside from the wiki page, where are they found? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 05:10:38
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ROFL!!! I'm sorry, MT, but when i hear "trow", I picture this: http://archive.gamespy.com/asp/image.asp?platform=GC&image=/previews/september03/bardstalemulti/07.jpg
I would have used a better image, but there are surprisingly few trow pics from the Bard's Tale on the net.... But anyone who had played the game on X-Box or Pc will know what I mean!! *sings: "Oh, it's baaad luck to be you. The prophesy is never coming true! When you think that you're in luck, in the bullocks you'll get struck..."* I loved those little guys!! |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2010 : 07:37:15
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| I remember playing Bard's Tale. About a hundred years ago on my Apple II+ clone - a superior model: with the full 64KB of RAM, dual CPUs (6502 and Z80), and a numeric keypad, oh yeah. Way better than the C64 version. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 24 Dec 2010 07:37:40 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2010 : 01:58:40
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Don't know the game (although I've heard of it). My version is based more upon the folklore version (which isn't much, considering how convoluted RW fey-lore is). 'Trow' just seemed the best fit for a Troll-Drow crossbreed.
The concept was this - a small clan of Dark Elves resided in the Treggi Jungle in ages past, and when the Descent Curse afflicted them, they became even more reclusive. Over the years, they have tried various methods to rid themselves of their weakness to strong light, and at the same time make themselves stronger (since humans had moved into the region, and were now chopping-away at THEIR forests!)
One of their few 'successes' was breeding with trolls (of all things), which made them very ugly, but allowed them to combine the benefits inherent in both species. They regenerate (only Reg:2 though), and although they dislike bright light, it doesn't hamper them (similar to Orcs or Dwarves). Fire is still the only way to keep them from regenerating, but it doesn't do extra damage. If killed outright, they will not 'come back' as a full-blooded troll would (the regen is only active so long as they are alive). Lost limbs take weeks to grow back as well, not minutes. Their culture is very similar to that of Wild (Grugach) Elves, and they are not above cannibalism in regards to other intelligent races (although they cook all their food thoroughly - they are NOT trolls). They protect their jungle savagely.
Another Homebrewed crossbreed of mine is the Hobgoblin.
Oh? You heard of them?
Not really... those are just the ones that have been around so long they have now become their own, distinctive 'race' (as half-Elves have in certain regions).
What a Hobgoblin is is a cross between a normal Goblin and an Orc. Such couplings happen in-canon (in EE), and yet we have absolutely no lore in regards to what that produces.
which is why I say we do - its just 'hidden in plain sight'.
As for the 'How' of it - its like a Liger (Tiger/Lion crossbreed) - the resultant creature is 'greater' then the sum of its parents. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Dec 2010 02:00:57 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dwelves...do they exist?
