| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Jul 2008 : 20:55:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
As I've said more than once, I could get interested in it all if it was a new setting -- I just can't accept it as the setting I used to love.
This is an interesting point to me. Why is that?
If I understand aright, you're saying that if it was another setting apart from FR--say "Savage Realms"--you'd still be interested in it.
What's stopping you from seeing it that way now? Under that logic, it's like there *is* a new setting, which happens to share a common history with an old, discontinued, much beloved setting.
I know for me, and from his other comments I think for Wooly too, is that it looks like a cool campaign setting, but it is so very different from the Realms we know and love and familiar with, that it is offensive to consider it to be the same setting (or even a new setting with a shared history) as the Realms we know and love. It is not change in and of it self, but specifically the number and severity of the changes made to the Realms, that I dislike. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
|
 |
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2008 : 21:35:36
|
Hmm. And why is it *offensive* to you?
I know that's a delicate question to ask, within the bounds of the strictures I noted about being polite to all sides. But I would really like to understand.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2008 : 21:54:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
As I've said more than once, I could get interested in it all if it was a new setting -- I just can't accept it as the setting I used to love.
This is an interesting point to me. Why is that?
If I understand aright, you're saying that if it was another setting apart from FR--say "Savage Realms"--you'd still be interested in it.
What's stopping you from seeing it that way now? Under that logic, it's like there *is* a new setting, which happens to share a common history with an old, discontinued, much beloved setting.
Not saying that I *want* you to see it that way--just asking why you don't.
I could accept all of this stuff in a new setting because it would be new. There wouldn't be 20+ years of material that was being shoved off to one side. There wouldn't be long-standing favorite NPCs that are now dead and forgotten. There wouldn't be vast changes to something I loved. And any changes that were described in that new setting wouldn't be ones that were illogical and/or flat-out retcons from prior lore.
For example...
A hypothetical new setting might have had a nation of mages that blew up. But since the setting is new, I don't know about or have any feeling for those mages and their nation. And the event that caused that detonation likely wouldn't leave me asking, "Wait, why didn't the same thing happen over here?"
A hypothetical new setting might have deities that were killed or shuffled around. But having never been told that goddess A was flighty, it wouldn't seem at all unusual for her to marry stern god B. Goddess C could be killed, with goddess D keeping her from being replaced -- and since this new setting doesn't have an Overgod who is the only one with that power, it's not at all illogical. And deities E-H were always Exarchs -- they weren't lesser and demi-deities that I was familiar with, and who have now been demoted.
A hypothetical new setting would have all-new lands. It wouldn't have lands I was familiar with that are no longer the same, or lands that I was familiar with that are now utterly gone, replaced with another land.
And so on...
I don't mind change to a setting. In fact, I embrace it -- so long as the change doesn't turn the setting into something I no longer feel familiar with. I don't like the Sellplague and the timejump because it all seems gratuitous, and because vast sections of the Realms are being rewritten.
With a new setting, I wouldn't have any knowledge of it or emotional baggage connected to it. If I was told something happened in this setting's past, I don't have any reason to have a problem with it, and it will have been, for me, the same as it always was.
To tweak and reuse an analogy I've already used elsewhere... A setting I've followed for years is like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. A new setting would be a grilled cheese sandwich. Either of them, I can accept exactly as they are. But if you take the jelly out of the PBJ and replace it with grilled cheese, it's not the same thing -- and I especially don't want to be told it's still a PBJ and that I should enjoy it just as much. That's what WotC is doing. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 Jul 2008 21:56:01 |
|
|
|
Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2008 : 22:36:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Hmm. And why is it *offensive* to you?
I know that's a delicate question to ask, within the bounds of the strictures I noted about being polite to all sides. But I would really like to understand.
Cheers
For pretty much all the reasons that Wooly just listed. Thank you for taking time and consideration to listen to our qualms. Just wondering, how exactly did you start in the Realms? I am not trying to categorize you as anything, I just want to understand where you are coming from as well. I began reading the Realms in the mid-1990's. It was not until late 2002 or early 2003 (pre 3.5) that I finally began exploring the Realms through any other media than the novels, namely the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Magic of Faerun, and Races of Faerun. I had actually read the Return of the Archwizards not realizing that there had been a 3rd edition of the game. Even without the 3e sourcebooks, I had already obtained a feel for the Realms that felt like a happy High Fantasy home away from home. I remember reading my first Realms novel (Darkwalker on Moonshae) and exclaiming, "That's a Hobbit!" when Douglas Niles described Pawldo. It just felt like a natural place to love as a fantasy enthusiast (esp High Fantasy). So for me (similar to Wooly's PB&J and Grilled Cheese analogy), it seems as if they have taken my best friend, killed him and turned him into a zombie, and then told me that he is just the same just "streamlined" so he can be other people's (many who have had no love for or outright despised him before) best friend too. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
|
Edited by - Hawkins on 24 Jul 2008 22:38:16 |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2008 : 23:00:18
|
I came to the Realms in a remarkably similar timeline and style to yours, having read first <i>Darkwalker</i> at about age 11 or 12 (1994-5), then <i>Streams of Silver, Exile</i>, and <i>Sojourn</i> (oddly, we didn't have a copy of the <i>Crystal Shard</i> or <i>Homeland</i>), then <i>Elfshadow</i>, then <i>Spellfire</i>, then a whole mess of other Realms novels, starting in the mid-90s. Basically as long as I've been reading, I've been reading FR. That was also about when I started playing D&D (age 11-12)--first campaigns based more than a little on Niles's novels.
I started playing D&D in the Realms around 8th grade (1997) and strongly resisted the transition to 3.0 in, what was that, 2000? My resistance lasted until I had actually read the PHB and decided it might be ok, then played, then decided it was all good. <i>GW</i> came about in 2003-2004. I've been playing there, reading there, and writing there ever since.
That's roughly as I remember it. At the risk of sounding really geeky (not a concern here at the Keep!), the Realms has been my fantasy world for around 14 years--more than half my life, now.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2008 : 23:39:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Original posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I wonder if I can have my next bard use an accordian. Hrm . . . . 
Only if you promise never to call it an accordian and always refer to it as a Squeezebox!
Only if I can have him refer to it, in an out-RAGE-ous French Ac-CENT, as his "main-SQUEEZE" and fight with it in a two-weapon style, with the instrument in his *left* hand.
Cheers
Ahhh, but will he wear a jaunty beret or a large brimmed hat with a plume?? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
|
|
|
|
The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 00:10:38
|
As to your book , will I read it even though I do not like the 4e changes....
Absolutely! So far, (I say out of respect since I have only read two novels and one short story by you, which is still a small sampling when compared to other authors) your FR writing has been excellent. So I fully expect to enjoy your next work , no matter if it is in 4e.....6e....Star Trek Deep Space 9 or a middle ages Templar Knight murder mystery!
On or two caveats though, since I wield the awesome blade known as Mastercard!
As long as none of your characters runs around singing "ding, dong the witch is dead" about Mystra or one of the Seven Sisters we should be cool. What I mean is treat the changes flippantly or as if they are of no consiquince. Which I in no way expect of you.
In fact any 4e novel has a good chance I will read it based on the author. I can't imagine not reading the planned trilogies by Paul S. Kemp or Richard Lee Byers. Everyone will read Elaine doing 4e if wotc can make that happen. I will read Steven or Ed until they write something that runs me off! I didn't even mention Jaleigh, James P. or Rosemary Jones. I know I didn't list everyone, but right now FR has the strongest group of authors around.
Now if you jump the shark and pen some drivel that loses "that feel" that your writing has.....
I would be using that stuff for a doorstop asap....no matter where, or when it is set. Once again, i do not expect that as I see you growing as a Writer , not diminishing.
As my good friend Inigo Montoya .."Let me Sum up"!
You will get a fair shake from me, I will judge you by your work and not the conditions put on it by Wotc. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
|
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 01:04:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Now I know some of you (Wooly, PDK, others) have some stringent and well-reasoned objections to the Realms of 4e. What I want to know is--that established and respected--how likely are you to read Downshadow, my next novel, which is set in the 4e Realms?
I do plan to read it.
By the way, I'd like to mention that my dislike of the 4E Realms isn't simply about my being "resistant to change" (although that's partly it--many things I loved about the setting were obliterated). It's also because I have ideas in mind about where I would like my Realms to go, and the 4E Realms doesn't mesh well with my ideas...at all. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 25 Jul 2008 01:04:37 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 01:15:39
|
The Sage steps in with his Mod hat on
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
P.S. NOTE TO ALL: I do not ever want to turn this into a 4e debate thread. We're being cool and calm and respectful, of one another and of the changes to the setting, even if we don't like them.
The instant it turns hostile or we take sarcastic swipes at anyone or anything, including the setting, I'll ask you to remove your post. This is not for censorship reasons, but only because it makes me physically ill to see that sort of negativity. I'll ask that posts be deleted, or I'll just leave. Fair enough?
When I say "sarcastic swipes," I mean things ranging from the obvious to the subtle, like Wooly's borderline term "Sellplague." Which, honestly, I find kinda funny, so it's cool. (No other slurs, though, ok team?)
I'd just like to re-inforce these points made by Erik.
We've all seen a few of the more expansive 4e discussions here at Candlekeep become kinda heated at times. I don't want to see that happen in a "Designers/Writers" scroll. This is purely for discussion of Erik's works. If you wish to debate the kinds of topics [such as the impact of 4e] sometimes raised here, I would suggest taking it to another scroll, or utilising the "Private Messaging' function.
Thank you. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
|
|
Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 02:41:35
|
Erik: is that novel set before or after the Spellplague? if before, I will read it; if after, I won't. I still have at least 15 old FR books I haven't read yet, and I haven't been able to keep up with the latest novel releases in the last three years. Therefore, I will have to be honest here and say it will be extremely unlikely I will purchase your novel. Nothing personal though: I will probably buy all the pre-Spellplague novels in time, to complete my "Realms Classic" collection! (which means I will buy all your other novels...  ) |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 03:09:53
|
As Erik said back on the 18 of July:-
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene
I have to ask: fourteenth or fifteenth century DR?
I'm not giving the specific date, but it is indeed 4e FR.
Cheers
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 04:12:50
|
On the previous subject of music, you mentioned something about Seattle. What do you think about the Foo Fighters? I was until last night a casual fan. I went and saw them live in Indianapolis and was blown away, alot of bands get lost in a live show trying to do to much. They were actually better live than on cd. I have not decided which story it would fit(but I think I could write one to fit it!) but the lyrics to The Pretender cry out to be a soundtrack song:
keep you in the dark
you know they all pretend
keep you in the dark
and saw it all begin
send in your skeletons
sing as the bones come marchin' in again
the knee you buried deep
the secrets that you keep are ever ready, are you ready?
I'm finished making sense
done pleading ignorance
that whole defense
spending this energy
but the wheel thats spinnin' me is never ending, never ending
same ol' story
chorus
what if I say you're not like the others
what if I you're not just another one
look at your face, you're the pretender
what if I say I'll never surrender x2
in time I'm so I'm told
I'm just another soul for sale, oh well
the pages I repress
they are not permanent, they are temporary, same ol story
Chorus x2
I'm the voice inside your head you refuse to hear
I'm the face you have to face mirroring yourself
I'm whats left, I'm whats right, I'm the enemy
I'm the hand that takes you down and brings you to your knees
so who are you, yeah who are you, yeah who are you, yeah who are you
even in the dark, you know they all pretend
Chorus
what if I say you're not like the others
(even in the dark, you know they all pretend)
what if I you're not just another one
(even in the dark, you know they all pretend)
look at your face, you're the pretender
(even in the dark, you know they all pretend)
what if I say I'll never surrender x3
so who are you
yeah who are you
yeah who are you
yeah who are you...
|
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
|
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 06:32:03
|
RW, yes, jaunty hat.
RW, no, not treating them either flippantly or as being of no consequence. My book is meant to honor every work that has come before it.
Thanks Sage, I am quite happy with people's responses so far, and feel that we are being calm and respectful. I did ask--specifically about reading post-4e novels even if you don't support 4e FR--so I think these discussions are fair game.
Lyrna, I don't think for one minute that you dislike the changes simply because you're resistant to change.
PDK--fair enough. It is indeed 4e FR. If you ever feel like changing your mind (because you buy it at a used bookstore or check it out of the public library, thus not sending any funds to WotC), that's cool too.
RW, I am something of a Foo Fighters fan. And that is another song I listened to a lot as I wrote this particular novel.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 07:37:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
PDK--fair enough. It is indeed 4e FR. If you ever feel like changing your mind (because you buy it at a used bookstore or check it out of the public library, thus not sending any funds to WotC), that's cool too.
Now you got me curious... 
Aw screw it! I'll now have to read it... just this once de Bie! ok? just this once!  |
|
|
|
sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 09:20:30
|
you know, some people's issues with drizzt is that he is in alot of novels, and to them he would of been better if he was in half as many.
each "tethyr" own.
downshadow??? new book of yours eric? |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 14:39:12
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Lyrna, I don't think for one minute that you dislike the changes simply because you're resistant to change.
Well, I'm happy to hear that. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 15:15:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
RW, yes, jaunty hat.
It doesn't get much beeter than a flamboyant bard with a French accent and attitude to match, in a nice jaunty beret Mon ami avec la plume prolifique de la fiction!
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
RW,  no, not treating them either flippantly or as being of no consequence. My book is meant to honor every work that has come before it.
For those unfamiliar with Erik's work, their is nothing he has done to even imply that he would do anything but honor all the work before him!
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Thanks Sage, I am quite happy with people's responses so far, and feel that we are being calm and respectful. I did ask--specifically about reading post-4e novels even if you don't support 4e FR--so I think these discussions are fair game.
Lyrna, I don't think for one minute that you dislike the changes simply because you're resistant to change.
PDK--fair enough. It is indeed 4e FR. If you ever feel like changing your mind (because you buy it at a used bookstore or check it out of the public library, thus not sending any funds to WotC), that's cool too.
I may be naive or even silly but I am not sure Wotc links their novels suceesses to 4e(or 3e 3.5e , etc...). If they fell suddenly, their might, but I think they would attribute steady or increased sales to their choice of writers and stories. I think just looking at the authors with so called 4e novels greenlighted(and we surely have not heard of them all!), it is easy to see their commitment to the FR novel line.
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
RW, I am something of a Foo Fighters fan. And that is another song I listened to a lot as I wrote this particular novel.
Cheers
Good to know!! What a great song.....and if you get a chance you must see them live!! The more I reflect , the more certain I am that it was the best live show I have ever seen!
P.S. So did that song make the soundtrack? or any other things Foo?
Edit: Fixed that crazy blue script! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
|
Edited by - The Red Walker on 25 Jul 2008 16:08:41 |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 17:59:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Aw screw it! I'll now have to read it... just this once de Bie! ok? just this once!
That's way more than I expected, PDK. I won't let you down.
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
downshadow??? new book of yours eric?
Ayep. April 2009.
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Lyrna, I don't think for one minute that you dislike the changes simply because you're resistant to change.
Well, I'm happy to hear that.
You're one of my favorite people on the boards, of considerable intellect and patience. I would never ascribe any sort of simplistic attitude to you.
I was speaking in *general* terms, that we have more of a tendency as we get more experienced with something, to want to hold onto it tighter. If you hadn't built up so much emotional connection to the Chosen, say, you wouldn't be upset with them disappearing (if that is indeed what happens--I don't know). Maybe you (the young, inexperienced-in-the-Realms you) thought the concept was cool, but if that's what's happening, then whatever. The older you, who has come to view the Chosen as a vital group of almost friends, would feel differently.
That's all I was saying. Not that you or anyone else has made a knee-jerk or snap decision not to like the 4e FR because they just don't like change (though I'm sure many, many have made such a decision)--only that the more experience you have with something, the less likely you are to roll with the punches.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 20:02:12
|
| Erik are you planning on hitting any events at GenCon? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
|
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 20:59:54
|
Mostly, I will be at seminars (Secrets of the Realms, Spin a Yarn, RAS's seminar, probably the 4e seminar), running one of my two events (Thursday and Friday mornings at 8 a.m.--we may have extra space in the Thursday game Cliche Day, if you're around and want to swing by), or at the WotC booth.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 23:07:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
You're one of my favorite people on the boards, of considerable intellect and patience. I would never ascribe any sort of simplistic attitude to you.
I'm so pleased to hear that, thank you.
quote:
I was speaking in *general* terms, that we have more of a tendency as we get more experienced with something, to want to hold onto it tighter. If you hadn't built up so much emotional connection to the Chosen, say, you wouldn't be upset with them disappearing (if that is indeed what happens--I don't know). Maybe you (the young, inexperienced-in-the-Realms you) thought the concept was cool, but if that's what's happening, then whatever. The older you, who has come to view the Chosen as a vital group of almost friends, would feel differently.
That's all I was saying. Not that you or anyone else has made a knee-jerk or snap decision not to like the 4e FR because they just don't like change (though I'm sure many, many have made such a decision)--only that the more experience you have with something, the less likely you are to roll with the punches.
I understand that, and agree. I *do* view the Chosen of Mystra as "friends" of a sort, and that's one of many reasons why I would prefer to keep my Realms as it is. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
chance87
Seeker
50 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 00:31:47
|
Erik,
Reading some of your responses to the like/dislike debate about 4E FR has got me to wondering, especially since you have a novel lined up. Have you received any guidance (that you can tell us about, of course) pertaining to the "flavor text" that you use to describe the Realms?
For instance, the destruction of Halruaa and the introduction of motes has several people comparing the new Realms to certain anime/manga cartoons, where combatants make impossible leaps over chasms and such during the normal course of combat.
An extreme example, I know, but have you been given any "we'd like to impart this feel/we'd like the reader to experience this in such a way" feedback?
Chance |
|
|
|
Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 05:00:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
So. Here's the question.
(And this discussion applies somewhat to all FR novels that are coming out in the foreseeable future.)
Now I know some of you (Wooly, PDK, others) have some stringent and well-reasoned objections to the Realms of 4e. What I want to know is--that established and respected--how likely are you to read Downshadow, my next novel, which is set in the 4e Realms?
Personally, I think the book works regardless of lore or timeline. Though it's clearly a 4e FR novel and holds true to the 4e lore (at least what I knew/know of it at the time, and it highlights what I like best about it), it's a novel for all Realms-fans, whether they read the classic Realms novels or cut their teeth in 2e like I did, or they jumped on in 3e/3.5e, or they haven't so much as heard of these "Forgotten Realms" until 4e. Like Ghostwalker, it is very much a broad-appeal fantasy adventure rather than setting/edition-specific--as opposed to say, Depths of Madness, which was my most 3.5e mechanical novel. It doesn't make you cop to the 4e FR, either--just like you can read, say, Spellfire without conflicted loyalties regarding 1e.
So. Can you guys be persuaded to check it out even if you've set a firm anti-4e FR stance, or are we just going to be talking about my pre-4e stuff?
Cheers
To answer your question, I plan on reading every novel that comes out that is set in the Realms. I love the setting and I love to read. Granted, I am not in love with the changes being made asaI see no good reason for it other than WoTC trying to make a buck. Regardless of my personal feelings I will still support the authors.
But I have faith that everything will be fine once the shock of the changes passes. For me there is precedence because I am also a big fan of the Battletech novels and that universe went through it's own "Spellplague" type change when it was turned into Mechwarrior:DA. I felt the same way about the changes then as I do now about the FR changes. But I ended up accepting and even enjoying the new story line due to the work of their very talented writers. So that is what holds my faith in the changes coming to the Realms. I know that the Realms authors are a very talented bunch, including you Mr. de Bie, and I am looking forward to your next novel set 100yrs in he Realms future. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 05:18:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
But I have faith that everything will be fine once the shock of the changes passes. For me there is precedence because I am also a big fan of the Battletech novels and that universe went through it's own "Spellplague" type change when it was turned into Mechwarrior:DA. I felt the same way about the changes then as I do now about the FR changes. But I ended up accepting and even enjoying the new story line due to the work of their very talented writers. So that is what holds my faith in the changes coming to the Realms. I know that the Realms authors are a very talented bunch, including you Mr. de Bie, and I am looking forward to your next novel set 100yrs in he Realms future.
And once more I am the opposite. I think the Jihad is even more nonsensical and illogical than the Sellplague, and the Duck Ages version of BTech is not at all what I got into the game for. The Fourth Succession War, the Clan invasion, Conventry, Operations Bulldog and Scorpion, the FedCom Civil War -- the only complaints I have about any of those events was that in the novels, the ending of the FCCW seemed rushed, and I didn't like the way Omi was assassinated. But then they hit us with the Jihad and a timejump, and that's where I got off the ride.
Talking about the illogic of the Sellplague irritates me. Talking about the illogic of the Jihad pisses me off.
I said earlier I could have gotten into post-Sellplague FR if it had been a new setting, rather than a mangling of an existing one. That is not true for the Duck Ages stuff. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 26 Jul 2008 05:25:17 |
|
|
|
Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 05:44:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
But I have faith that everything will be fine once the shock of the changes passes. For me there is precedence because I am also a big fan of the Battletech novels and that universe went through it's own "Spellplague" type change when it was turned into Mechwarrior:DA. I felt the same way about the changes then as I do now about the FR changes. But I ended up accepting and even enjoying the new story line due to the work of their very talented writers. So that is what holds my faith in the changes coming to the Realms. I know that the Realms authors are a very talented bunch, including you Mr. de Bie, and I am looking forward to your next novel set 100yrs in he Realms future.
And once more I am the opposite. I think the Jihad is even more nonsensical and illogical than the Sellplague, and the Duck Ages version of BTech is not at all what I got into the game for. The Fourth Succession War, the Clan invasion, Conventry, Operations Bulldog and Scorpion, the FedCom Civil War -- the only complaints I have about any of those events was that in the novels, the ending of the FCCW seemed rushed, and I didn't like the way Omi was assassinated. But then they hit us with the Jihad and a timejump, and that's where I got off the ride.
Talking about the illogic of the Sellplague irritates me. Talking about the illogic of the Jihad pisses me off.
I said earlier I could have gotten into post-Sellplague FR if it had been a new setting, rather than a mangling of an existing one. That is not true for the Duck Ages stuff.
Heh, sorry if I opened any old wounds here Wooly. I totally agree that the current BT timeline is no where near what it was when it first began. I wish I could explain why I am so accepting of changes like the Jihad and the Spellplague. Maybe I am like a person in an abusive relationship who refuses to leave. Either way I will still enjoy reading the novels regardless of the changes they make. I do hope that you will be able to find some enjoyment of the 4E realms. |
|
|
|
The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 14:47:57
|
| I don't know if this is an old "dis-agreement" or if Caolin just hit a raw nerve with Wooly, but this is exactly the type of thing I think Erik was trying to avoid when opening this line of discussion. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
|
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2008 : 15:36:45
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I don't know if this is an old "dis-agreement" or if Caolin just hit a raw nerve with Wooly, but this is exactly the type of thing I think Erik was trying to avoid when opening this line of discussion.
The Jihad is a long-standing sore subject with me. And I have, more than once, drawn comparisons betwixt it and the Sellplague -- I just haven't done them here, all that oft, because the number of BattleTech fans here isn't all that large.
I actually refrained from going into my beefs against the Jihad. Other than noting that I hate the Jihad more than the Sellplague, the few times it's come up, it's just not something to discuss here.
So my piece is said.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2008 : 02:34:01
|
We won't be seeing any of your wedding footage on Americas Funniest Home Videos will we???
Hope everything went as planned! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
|
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2008 : 02:38:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by chance87
An extreme example, I know, but have you been given any "we'd like to impart this feel/we'd like the reader to experience this in such a way" feedback?
To quote Dwight from the office:
"Well let's put it this way:
"No. No, I have not."
Seriously--no such guidance or instruction. If people visualize the Realms as anime-ish/manga-ish, that's up to them, and that's a perfectly fine way to play.
But while I do enjoy a good deal of anime and some manga, I don't see the Realms that way and have never written them that way, including Downshadow. I go for more of a raw/gritty realism--any humanly impossible feats and whatnot come from magic and the like, and I try to give them very human consequences (like broken limbs and gushing blood, etc, etc).
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
I know that the Realms authors are a very talented bunch, including you Mr. de Bie, and I am looking forward to your next novel set 100yrs in he Realms future.
I appreciate the vote of confidence, and I won't let you down.
And Battletech/Mechwarrior . . . that's the one with the big robots, right?
j/k. I know what Mechwarrior is, and I think we should avoid discussing it overmuch.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Questions for Erik Scott de Bie
