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Originally posted by ericlboyd

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Originally posted by PattPlays

I found a snippet in an old scroll citing Cloak & Dagger which says the Scepter was broken into Five parts and that DMs should consider scattering it across the planes.

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I think if you re-download the file, you'll see that it's always said five parts, not seven.

Also, we've always been at war with Kara-Tur. :-)

--Eric

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Originally posted by TheIriaeban

Eric, in the Noble Houses of Waterdeep Web Enhancement, you have Lord Huld Belabranta having a long term relationship with the succubus Elinaera. Did you determine what year that relationship may have begun? I am looking to use a family member around 1366 who is at least N if not NE or LE. I figure this person was a favorite of Huld's until his apprentice Rycc Khaernos was able to convince Huld to send this individual away on a specific task (Rycc saw the person as his greatest rival).

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Originally posted by ericlboyd

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Originally posted by TheIriaeban

Eric, in the Noble Houses of Waterdeep Web Enhancement, you have Lord Huld Belabranta having a long term relationship with the succubus Elinaera. Did you determine what year that relationship may have begun? I am looking to use a family member around 1366 who is at least N if not NE or LE. I figure this person was a favorite of Huld's until his apprentice Rycc Khaernos was able to convince Huld to send this individual away on a specific task (Rycc saw the person as his greatest rival).

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So if you look at FR1 - Waterdeep and the North, page 46, you'll see he's listed as NG (as of 1357 / 1358 DR).

If you look at City of Splendors (boxed set): Who's Who in Waterdeep, page 11, you'll see he's listed as NE as of 1367 DR. Note also the statement, current as of 1367 DR: "Tavern tales say he was once a smiling, generous host years ago, but something dark now infests his home and his soul."

So, based on that I would say his transformation from NG -> NE probably happened in 1359 DR, 1360 DR at the latest. The explanation is in footnote #5 in the Noble Houses web enhancement.

--Eric

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Originally posted by kysus

Hey Eric i enjoyed reading the new content you added to the underillfarn especially seeing as it covered some realms i was very interested in, it made me really giddy lol. And at last i have some questions i was hoping you would be able to answer. the 1st is the Audark tarlspira and the Quess’kerym
Illefarnam, would there happen to be any more bits of lore on these items that you might have come up with like what they might import to their users and possible locations or rumors there of. Also am i correct in thinking that the unicorn blade thats in the mere of dead men series one of the quess'kerm? for my 2nd question i saw that you had added the coat of arms for a number of kingdoms and was wondering if any of the elven realms also had a coat of arms that they used or if that was something that elven culture did differently than the other races?

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Originally posted by kysus

Hey Eric i enjoyed reading the new content you added to the underillfarn especially seeing as it covered some realms i was very interested in, it made me really giddy lol. And at last i have some questions i was hoping you would be able to answer. the 1st is the Audark tarlspira and the Quess’kerym
Illefarnam, would there happen to be any more bits of lore on these items that you might have come up with like what they might import to their users and possible locations or rumors there of. Also am i correct in thinking that the unicorn blade thats in the mere of dead men series one of the quess'kerm?

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Originally posted by TheIriaeban

Eric, I want to be sure I have not missed anything about the Trail of Mists. Do you know of any other references to it other than the Mintiper's Chapbook article you wrote? I have an idea for a gnome-built "Mistcart" that they would use to move goods along the Trail of Mists and I want to make sure that the design and operation doesn't conflict with any published material about the Trail.

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Originally posted by ericlboyd

–3150 The Trail of Mists is established to speed the escape of gnome slaves from Netheril. (The Grand History of the Realms, page 29.)

Here's some stuff I wrote relatively recently:

Netherese Enslavement of the Forgotten Folk
In -3655 DR, the Twintusk Horde swept down from the Spine of the World, inflicting devastation across the Savage North. The western branch of the horde of mountain orcs marched through the Moonlands in the upper reaches of the Dessarin river valley, while the eastern branch of the horde flowed through the Vale of the Tallwalkers (Modern: Hartsvale) into the open lands to the east, home to the Rengarth barbarians. While the western branch of the Twintusk Horde was crushed between the combined armies of Illefarn and Netheril, the eastern branch was relatively unopposed, as the ogre empire of Morokheim had collapsed in -4104 DR, leaving the northern grasslands to the humans of the Rengarth tribes.
With only the scattered tribes of Rengarth to oppose them, the eastern branch of the Twintusk Horde swept south, only to smash against the defenses of the rock gnomes of Feloarhode (Modern: The Tagorlar), who had only recently been discovered by the Netherese. The Realm of Glinting Gems might well have collapsed if not for the unexpected aid of Netheril’s burgeoning wizard class who flew across the Narrow Sea.
All of the gratitude the Forgotten Folk felt towards the Netherese soon soured, as the Netherese sent emissaries to the Court of Feloarhode in -3649 DR to collect on what they felt was due to them for their aid. The rock gnome darandar (king) was hardly in any position to reject their demands, so he agreed to supply the Netherese with an annual tribute of craft goods in exchange for their protection.
This concession caused great tumult among the gnomish clans of Feloarhode. Some clan leaders argued for continued cooperation with the Netherese, while others pointed to the fact that Netheril had already annexed the Rengarth tribal lands for lack of sufficient payment and that they were likely next. In the end, most of the clans supported the gnomish king, who enjoyed the strong support of the Church of Garl Glittergold, but three clans and the clergy of Gelf Darkhearth rejected his strategy of appeasement and withdrew from the Realm of Glinting Gems.
In the years that followed, it soon became apparent that the Netherese viewed the Forgotten Folk as little better than slaves. Every time the darandar of Feloarhode raised the issue of ending the annual tribute, Netherese rumormongers quickly spread word of another looming orc horde. By -3520 DR, the Forgotten Folk were actively seeking ways to flee the whims of the Netherese, slipping over the border to the west, south, and east. By -3150 DR, with the aid of the Fair Folk, the gnomes began escaping from Netheril in large numbers by way of the Trail of Mists.
In the end, the Realm of Glinting Gems collapsed after the gnomes refused to work for the Netherese anymore. Unable to compel the inhabitants of Feloarhode with magic to be creative, the Netherese granted the Forgotten Folk their emancipation in -2387 DR. However, by that time, the vast majority of gnomes had fled far afield. While most moved south and east, some fled west into the Dessarin river valley, founding Garlanda, the Realm of Glittering Gold, amidst the rolling hills along the River Dessarin.

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Originally posted by TheIriaeban

Thank you and very nice. You worked Gelf Darkhearth into it, too.

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Edit: Follow-up question: Just to clarify how far you can travel on the Trail of Mists, given someone of average INT (11) and if that person can travel a typical 10 hours in a day, they would be able to travel 110 miles (10 x 11 mph). But, since the Boarder Ethereal affects how quickly a person gets fatigued (1/10 the normal rate), it would be possible for that person to travel for 100 hours at 11 mph and thus have a journey of 1100 miles. That would mean that there would need to be a nexus at a maximum of every 1100 miles (roughly) within the Trail of Mists network. Is that consistent with your design of the Trail of Mists?

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Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Not wanting to argue, but i love Netheril and had a real hard time working with what was in the Netheril boxed set or understanding a lot of what happened in the First Age, i'm still not sure about it based upon the above.

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The discovery of the Rengarth in the first age is attributed to scouts who report back to Seventon. At that time Netheril and Seventon is the same and it is only 200 years since the 7 fishing villages banded together.

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Originally posted by ericlboyd
I'm thinking to make the timeline, as given, work, you have to assume that little Seventon is becoming a magocracy within 200 years. It doesn't have a lot of territory yet, but it does have powerful magic. The lands to the North are a power vacuum since the collapse of Morokheim (ogres), leaving only the gnomes and the Rengarth. Later they will go south and west, conquering those lands. (What's there? Not sure yet, other than Thraevael, Land of Alabaster Towers.)

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Originally posted by ericlboyd

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Originally posted by TheIriaeban

Eric, I want to be sure I have not missed anything about the Trail of Mists. Do you know of any other references to it other than the Mintiper's Chapbook article you wrote? I have an idea for a gnome-built "Mistcart" that they would use to move goods along the Trail of Mists and I want to make sure that the design and operation doesn't conflict with any published material about the Trail.

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–3150 The Trail of Mists is established to speed the escape of gnome slaves from Netheril. (The Grand History of the Realms, page 29.)

Here's some stuff I wrote relatively recently:

Netherese Enslavement of the Forgotten Folk
In -3655 DR, the Twintusk Horde swept down from the Spine of the World, inflicting devastation across the Savage North. The western branch of the horde of mountain orcs marched through the Moonlands in the upper reaches of the Dessarin river valley, while the eastern branch of the horde flowed through the Vale of the Tallwalkers (Modern: Hartsvale) into the open lands to the east, home to the Rengarth barbarians. While the western branch of the Twintusk Horde was crushed between the combined armies of Illefarn and Netheril, the eastern branch was relatively unopposed, as the ogre empire of Morokheim had collapsed in -4104 DR, leaving the northern grasslands to the humans of the Rengarth tribes.
With only the scattered tribes of Rengarth to oppose them, the eastern branch of the Twintusk Horde swept south, only to smash against the defenses of the rock gnomes of Feloarhode (Modern: The Tagorlar), who had only recently been discovered by the Netherese. The Realm of Glinting Gems might well have collapsed if not for the unexpected aid of Netheril’s burgeoning wizard class who flew across the Narrow Sea.
All of the gratitude the Forgotten Folk felt towards the Netherese soon soured, as the Netherese sent emissaries to the Court of Feloarhode in -3649 DR to collect on what they felt was due to them for their aid. The rock gnome darandar (king) was hardly in any position to reject their demands, so he agreed to supply the Netherese with an annual tribute of craft goods in exchange for their protection.
This concession caused great tumult among the gnomish clans of Feloarhode. Some clan leaders argued for continued cooperation with the Netherese, while others pointed to the fact that Netheril had already annexed the Rengarth tribal lands for lack of sufficient payment and that they were likely next. In the end, most of the clans supported the gnomish king, who enjoyed the strong support of the Church of Garl Glittergold, but three clans and the clergy of Gelf Darkhearth rejected his strategy of appeasement and withdrew from the Realm of Glinting Gems.
In the years that followed, it soon became apparent that the Netherese viewed the Forgotten Folk as little better than slaves. Every time the darandar of Feloarhode raised the issue of ending the annual tribute, Netherese rumormongers quickly spread word of another looming orc horde. By -3520 DR, the Forgotten Folk were actively seeking ways to flee the whims of the Netherese, slipping over the border to the west, south, and east. By -3150 DR, with the aid of the Fair Folk, the gnomes began escaping from Netheril in large numbers by way of the Trail of Mists.
In the end, the Realm of Glinting Gems collapsed after the gnomes refused to work for the Netherese anymore. Unable to compel the inhabitants of Feloarhode with magic to be creative, the Netherese granted the Forgotten Folk their emancipation in -2387 DR. However, by that time, the vast majority of gnomes had fled far afield. While most moved south and east, some fled west into the Dessarin river valley, founding Garlanda, the Realm of Glittering Gold, amidst the rolling hills along the River Dessarin.

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Originally posted by TheIriaeban

I was combing through the Trail of Mists article and I found this:

"The Netherese enslaved the Forgotten Folk for centuries, despite a series of failed revolts, employing them as craftsmen and inventors. Small groups of gnomes regularly escaped captivity, but most were quickly discovered and killed by the Netherese."

Those groups of gnomes that escaped sound like they were in the Netherese enclaves and related cities. Were they pulled from Feloarhode or were they subjugated separately? Feloarhode doesn't sound like a prison camp so it would seem those gnomes would have to have been elsewhere.

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Originally posted by ericlboyd

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Originally posted by TheIriaeban

I was combing through the Trail of Mists article and I found this:

"The Netherese enslaved the Forgotten Folk for centuries, despite a series of failed revolts, employing them as craftsmen and inventors. Small groups of gnomes regularly escaped captivity, but most were quickly discovered and killed by the Netherese."

Those groups of gnomes that escaped sound like they were in the Netherese enclaves and related cities. Were they pulled from Feloarhode or were they subjugated separately? Feloarhode doesn't sound like a prison camp so it would seem those gnomes would have to have been elsewhere.

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So my thought is that "early in the enslavement," most gnomes lived in Feloarhode and the kingdom offered tribute to the Netherese. However, over time, many gnomes were brought into Netherese cities and enclaves to toil, and the slavery became more peronsal / horrific.

--Eric

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Originally posted by TheIriaeban


Thank you. Applying some math with some assumptions, that would give the total population of gnomes at about 302,500 at the start of the enslavement. That would be a decent population for a thriving kingdom.

Assumptions:
5,000 starting group of gnomes in -25,400
A gnome generation is about 400 years
That works out to be about 55 generations by the time the enslavement starts.
Reproductive survival rate for a pre-magic-wielding, average fertility, small race of 2.2 kids/couple.

Do the assumed numbers seem reasonable or do you think there should be more or less gnomes at that time?

Edit: A minor clarification in the assumptions.

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Originally posted by TheIriaeban

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Originally posted by ericlboyd

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Originally posted by TheIriaeban

I was combing through the Trail of Mists article and I found this:

"The Netherese enslaved the Forgotten Folk for centuries, despite a series of failed revolts, employing them as craftsmen and inventors. Small groups of gnomes regularly escaped captivity, but most were quickly discovered and killed by the Netherese."

Those groups of gnomes that escaped sound like they were in the Netherese enclaves and related cities. Were they pulled from Feloarhode or were they subjugated separately? Feloarhode doesn't sound like a prison camp so it would seem those gnomes would have to have been elsewhere.

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So my thought is that "early in the enslavement," most gnomes lived in Feloarhode and the kingdom offered tribute to the Netherese. However, over time, many gnomes were brought into Netherese cities and enclaves to toil, and the slavery became more peronsal / horrific.

--Eric

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Thank you. Applying some math with some assumptions, that would give the total population of gnomes at about 302,500 at the start of the enslavement. That would be a decent population for a thriving kingdom.

Assumptions:
5,000 starting group of gnomes in -25,400
A gnome generation is about 400 years
That works out to be about 55 generations by the time the enslavement starts.
Reproductive survival rate for a pre-magic-wielding, average fertility, small race of 2.2 kids/couple.

Do the assumed numbers seem reasonable or do you think there should be more or less gnomes at that time?

Edit: A minor clarification in the assumptions.

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Originally posted by TheIriaeban

Eric, I should probably clarify a bit on what I am thinking based on using your Feloarhode lore to really be the seed for the history of gnomes in the Realms. The gnomes are refugees from another crystal sphere. Garl used his divine might to transform as many gnomes as he could into gems (because of their durability) and scattered them among other crystal spheres to guarantee the survival of the gnome race. On Toril, those "gnome-gems" appeared in a cavern in The Tagorlar Mountains. It is there that Garl "created" the gnome race on Toril (actually, all he did was release them from their individual "life rafts"). Those gnomes went on to found Feloarhode so the kingdom, at that time, really is pretty much the entire gnome race on Toril. The kingdom was strong enough to keep the local kobolds and such at bay but once the Netherses showed up, gnomes started to leave the kingdom and migrate elsewhere (a "Second Scattering" if you will--I'll come up with a better name later). That way, there were other gnome communities that the Elves could get their "gnome escapees" to and the final evacuation of Feloarhode was the rulers and such to the Sunrise Mountains and the genesis of the gnome Kingdom of Songfarla.

So, currently, what survives of Feloarhode is a kobold and monster infested series of tunnels and chambers. The "Mother Cave" may or may not still be there (to find out would be a nice adventure seed). I am thinking that most gnomes do not know all of this information. In that case, each of the major gnome god temples will have a "Hodenar" who is a keeper of the full history of the race.

When I have time, I will expand on this (as long as it doesn't collide with other lore) and put it on DMsGuild.

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Originally posted by ericlboyd

Sounds wonderful.

The only thing to add is to suggest you look at the sidebar in Grand History of the Realms, page 9.

There's an implication that gnomes came earlier than Feloarhode. It might be apocryphal, or it might have been an earlier migration. I tried to be ambiguous in my write-up to allow for a possible earlier arrival date.

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Originally posted by TheIriaeban

Eric, I should probably clarify a bit on what I am thinking based on using your Feloarhode lore to really be the seed for the history of gnomes in the Realms. The gnomes are refugees from another crystal sphere. Garl used his divine might to transform as many gnomes as he could into gems (because of their durability) and scattered them among other crystal spheres to guarantee the survival of the gnome race. On Toril, those "gnome-gems" appeared in a cavern in The Tagorlar Mountains. It is there that Garl "created" the gnome race on Toril (actually, all he did was release them from their individual "life rafts"). Those gnomes went on to found Feloarhode so the kingdom, at that time, really is pretty much the entire gnome race on Toril. The kingdom was strong enough to keep the local kobolds and such at bay but once the Netherses showed up, gnomes started to leave the kingdom and migrate elsewhere (a "Second Scattering" if you will--I'll come up with a better name later). That way, there were other gnome communities that the Elves could get their "gnome escapees" to and the final evacuation of Feloarhode was the rulers and such to the Sunrise Mountains and the genesis of the gnome Kingdom of Songfarla.

So, currently, what survives of Feloarhode is a kobold and monster infested series of tunnels and chambers. The "Mother Cave" may or may not still be there (to find out would be a nice adventure seed). I am thinking that most gnomes do not know all of this information. In that case, each of the major gnome god temples will have a "Hodenar" who is a keeper of the full history of the race.

When I have time, I will expand on this (as long as it doesn't collide with other lore) and put it on DMsGuild.

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Originally posted by kysus

Hello Eric l Boyd I hope you are doing well of late. I am back with some more questions for you, I am currently running a game that takes place in Myth Glaurach that was recently reinhabited and partially rebuilt by my players and I had some questions on the nature of the city. In the last myth series there is described a "grand mages palace" in the center of the city, from this is this something I can assume that this city was ruled by the most powerful or influential mage of the city? and going down that road would it be safe to assume that this city could be the magical learning center of the realm of Earlann?

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