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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Jan 2005 : 07:23:21
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Richard Baker included a Chaond in his FR Dungeon module Prison of the Flamebringer so we know they are present in the FR but they werent included in the PGTF
So what Regions and Regional and racial feats do you think Chaond and Zenythri have in the FR?
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2005 : 08:42:07
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The modules set in the Silver marches
Incidently how do you get a Zenythri? Demons, Slaads and Celestials and Devils are flesh and blood and can therefore breed with mortals thus create Half Outsiders. The Lawful Outsiders are all constructs and are therefore not able to breed |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2005 : 08:44:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
The modules set in the Silver marches
Incidently how do you get a Zenythri? Demons, Slaads and Celestials and Devils are flesh and blood and can therefore breed with mortals thus create Half Outsiders. The Lawful Outsiders are all constructs and are therefore not able to breed
Modrons?
Formians? |
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Edited by - warlockco on 07 Jan 2005 08:46:13 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2005 : 08:52:22
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Formions are ants and would i imagine be unable to breed with a humanoid
Im not sure whether Modrons where even converted to 3ed, in 1ed Modrons where a 3d Shape with arms and legs which to me would again elminate an ability to breed with Humanoids |
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Emperor Sigismund
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2005 : 09:13:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Formions are ants and would i imagine be unable to breed with a humanoid
Im not sure whether Modrons where even converted to 3ed, in 1ed Modrons where a 3d Shape with arms and legs which to me would again elminate an ability to breed with Humanoids
Modrons were in a Web Enhancement, for the Manual of the Planes if I recall correctly.
Was looking through the various regions for Planetouched in the PGtF and the Errata for the PGtF.
In the Errate there is a Planetouched Region for the Silver Marches, it specifies Tiefling, but from the looks of it, I see no reason why a Chaond couldn't qualify for it. A Zenythri is harder to say.
Only real changes I would make to the Silver Marches Tiefling Region for the Chaond is to add the goddesses Tymora and Beshaba to the list, and drop Bane. |
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Edited by - warlockco on 07 Jan 2005 09:14:53 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2005 : 09:29:09
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
Modrons were in a Web Enhancement, for the Manual of the Planes if I recall correctly.
Was looking through the various regions for Planetouched in the PGtF and the Errata for the PGtF.
In the Errate there is a Planetouched Region for the Silver Marches, it specifies Tiefling, but from the looks of it, I see no reason why a Chaond couldn't qualify for it. A Zenythri is harder to say.
Only real changes I would make to the Silver Marches Tiefling Region for the Chaond is to add the goddesses Tymora and Beshaba to the list, and drop Bane.
hmmm
Ive asked Rich Baker over in his thread at FR Gen, failing that we could always ask Ed were Slaad and their Lawful Neutral counter parts have appeared in Faeruns history |
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Emperor Sigismund
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2005 : 13:33:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
hmmm
Ive asked Rich Baker over in his thread at FR Gen, failing that we could always ask Ed were Slaad and their Lawful Neutral counter parts have appeared in Faeruns history
Aye, that would give us a better ideal on where and what to give them. I wonder if the Planetouched from the Fiend Folio have a presence also. |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2005 : 13:43:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Demons, Slaads and Celestials and Devils are flesh and blood...
This is normally the Sage's area of expertise . . . but I'll try my hand at this. Fiends, the Slaadi, and the Celestials are not truly flesh and blood creatures. Nearly all fiends are in some way derived from the material of the Abyss and the Nine Hells, there's very little "flesh and blood" involved. Slaad are manifestations of the chaotic soup in Limbo brought into being by the Spawning Stone, among other things.
quote:
...and can therefore breed with mortals thus create Half Outsiders. The Lawful Outsiders are all constructs and are therefore not able to breed
Again, not entirely true. Slaadi do not "breed" with mortals. Most slaadi forms reproduce by injecting an egg-pellet into an opponent's body. This egg-pellet slowly moves through the unwitting victim's body until it reaches the chest cavity whereupon it begins it's gestation period. After three months, and after a baby slaad has formed, it eats its way out of the victim's body, killing it.
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2005 : 18:38:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
Modrons were in a Web Enhancement, for the Manual of the Planes if I recall correctly.
Was looking through the various regions for Planetouched in the PGtF and the Errata for the PGtF.
In the Errate there is a Planetouched Region for the Silver Marches, it specifies Tiefling, but from the looks of it, I see no reason why a Chaond couldn't qualify for it. A Zenythri is harder to say.
Only real changes I would make to the Silver Marches Tiefling Region for the Chaond is to add the goddesses Tymora and Beshaba to the list, and drop Bane.
hmmm
Ive asked Rich Baker over in his thread at FR Gen, failing that we could always ask Ed were Slaad and their Lawful Neutral counter parts have appeared in Faeruns history
Looks like we will need to try Ed, Rich's answer didn't really seem like an answer to me. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2005 : 00:54:05
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Yeah I noticed
Ive beseached Oghma.. I mean Ed for info  |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2005 : 23:32:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Demons, Slaads and Celestials and Devils are flesh and blood...
This is normally the Sage's area of expertise . . . but I'll try my hand at this. Fiends, the Slaadi, and the Celestials are not truly flesh and blood creatures. Nearly all fiends are in some way derived from the material of the Abyss and the Nine Hells, there's very little "flesh and blood" involved. Slaad are manifestations of the chaotic soup in Limbo brought into being by the Spawning Stone, among other things.
quote:
...and can therefore breed with mortals thus create Half Outsiders. The Lawful Outsiders are all constructs and are therefore not able to breed
Again, not entirely true. Slaadi do not "breed" with mortals. Most slaadi forms reproduce by injecting an egg-pellet into an opponent's body. This egg-pellet slowly moves through the unwitting victim's body until it reaches the chest cavity whereupon it begins it's gestation period. After three months, and after a baby slaad has formed, it eats its way out of the victim's body, killing it.
Hmmm maybe Ed will know of a region, however if the Slaad and Inevitables havent had an Impact on Faerun (unlike Demons and Devils) then I think Ive discovered a work around and infact it dovetails nicely with the Slaad and Invevitables inability to breed. Ill add it to the FR plane article Ive been working on. |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 06:32:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Demons, Slaads and Celestials and Devils are flesh and blood...
This is normally the Sage's area of expertise . . . but I'll try my hand at this. Fiends, the Slaadi, and the Celestials are not truly flesh and blood creatures. Nearly all fiends are in some way derived from the material of the Abyss and the Nine Hells, there's very little "flesh and blood" involved. Slaad are manifestations of the chaotic soup in Limbo brought into being by the Spawning Stone, among other things.
quote:
...and can therefore breed with mortals thus create Half Outsiders. The Lawful Outsiders are all constructs and are therefore not able to breed
Again, not entirely true. Slaadi do not "breed" with mortals. Most slaadi forms reproduce by injecting an egg-pellet into an opponent's body. This egg-pellet slowly moves through the unwitting victim's body until it reaches the chest cavity whereupon it begins it's gestation period. After three months, and after a baby slaad has formed, it eats its way out of the victim's body, killing it.
Hmmm maybe Ed will know of a region, however if the Slaad and Inevitables havent had an Impact on Faerun (unlike Demons and Devils)...
I don't think the Inevitables would. They're still sort of establishing themselves in some places. In fact, the only place they have a large-ish holding is in Union.
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 01:15:04
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In the back of the FRCS in the Dungeons of the Realms section it lists the Dungeon of the Ruins. Local barbarians avoid this place for great frog-like forms of Slaadi are oft seen dancing around the pyres.
Rich Baker elaborated on this area more in Dungeon #101 in his adventure Prison of the Firebringer, wherein we learn that the Slaad-Lord Bazim-Gorag is imprisoned below.
This used to be an old wizard school. It probably has a portal to the Slaad realms. There is a nearby village of Andalbruin that might have some planetouched of slaad descent. Mithral Hall is not too far distant, as is Griffons Nest. There could be a few farms or villages bordering the Lurkwood and lastly Nesme is near enough for there to be a chaond or two descended from a slaad and a local villager. |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 14:00:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Rich Baker elaborated on this area more in Dungeon #101 in his adventure Prison of the Firebringer, wherein we learn that the Slaad-Lord Bazim-Gorag is imprisoned below.
Were there stats included in that article for Bazim-Gorag? He's about the only Slaad-Lord I don't have any stats for . . .
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 14:25:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Rich Baker elaborated on this area more in Dungeon #101 in his adventure Prison of the Firebringer, wherein we learn that the Slaad-Lord Bazim-Gorag is imprisoned below.
Were there stats included in that article for Bazim-Gorag? He's about the only Slaad-Lord I don't have any stats for . . .
Yes there are stats for Bazim Gorag in 101 (they are however in 3.0) rumour has it that Bazim will appear in Champions of Runin along side Dendar the Night serpent and Kezef the the Chaos hound |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 18:38:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
In the back of the FRCS in the Dungeons of the Realms section it lists the Dungeon of the Ruins. Local barbarians avoid this place for great frog-like forms of Slaadi are oft seen dancing around the pyres.
Rich Baker elaborated on this area more in Dungeon #101 in his adventure Prison of the Firebringer, wherein we learn that the Slaad-Lord Bazim-Gorag is imprisoned below.
This used to be an old wizard school. It probably has a portal to the Slaad realms. There is a nearby village of Andalbruin that might have some planetouched of slaad descent. Mithral Hall is not too far distant, as is Griffons Nest. There could be a few farms or villages bordering the Lurkwood and lastly Nesme is near enough for there to be a chaond or two descended from a slaad and a local villager.
This does lend more weight to the Silver Marches being a Region for Chaond. |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2005 : 14:41:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Rich Baker elaborated on this area more in Dungeon #101 in his adventure Prison of the Firebringer, wherein we learn that the Slaad-Lord Bazim-Gorag is imprisoned below.
Were there stats included in that article for Bazim-Gorag? He's about the only Slaad-Lord I don't have any stats for . . .
Yes there are stats for Bazim Gorag in 101 (they are however in 3.0) rumour has it that Bazim will appear in Champions of Runin along side Dendar the Night serpent and Kezef the the Chaos hound
Good and welcome news. Thank you, Dargoth.
Now, if only Eltab were to be added to the possible listing, I could go to sleep tonight, one happy and satisfied Vampiress . . . 
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2005 : 03:29:11
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
I think Eltab is supposed to be one of the featured Arch-Fiends in Champions of Ruin. I'll have to dig through the Ask Rich Baker thread on the WotC boards to see who and who isn't in there again 
Was way too much garbage and chaff to shift through.
But I'm fairly certain he did say Eltab and Malkizid would be featured. Fire Knife Assassin is not. And Tyranaxus and the other Lost Gods will not be featured. Beyond that I think it is just guestwork yet. Sides I think Champions of Ruin is for the later part of the year, so maybe they will add them. |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2005 : 05:55:24
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
I think Eltab is supposed to be one of the featured Arch-Fiends in Champions of Ruin. I'll have to dig through the Ask Rich Baker thread on the WotC boards to see who and who isn't in there again
Was way too much garbage and chaff to shift through.
But I'm fairly certain he did say Eltab and Malkizid would be featured. Fire Knife Assassin is not. And Tyranaxus and the other Lost Gods will not be featured. Beyond that I think it is just guestwork yet. Sides I think Champions of Ruin is for the later part of the year, so maybe they will add them.
It's a shame the other Lost Gods likely won't be included, however hearing about the possibility for Eltab and Malkizid has certainly changed my opinion on this work.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 08:48:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
This is normally the Sage's area of expertise . . . but I'll try my hand at this. Fiends, the Slaadi, and the Celestials are not truly flesh and blood creatures. Nearly all fiends are in some way derived from the material of the Abyss and the Nine Hells, there's very little "flesh and blood" involved. Slaad are manifestations of the chaotic soup in Limbo brought into being by the Spawning Stone, among other things.
That's pretty much accurate, although there have been instances in the past where celestials have been seen to be "actual" flesh and blood creatures. As I recall, an archon was once made to "bleed" in order to forge an opening for a portal in the Abyss.
quote:
...and can therefore breed with mortals thus create Half Outsiders. The Lawful Outsiders are all constructs and are therefore not able to breed
quote:
Again, not entirely true. Slaadi do not "breed" with mortals. Most slaadi forms reproduce by injecting an egg-pellet into an opponent's body. This egg-pellet slowly moves through the unwitting victim's body until it reaches the chest cavity whereupon it begins it's gestation period. After three months, and after a baby slaad has formed, it eats its way out of the victim's body, killing it.
This really depends on the type of form that the slaadi take. Remember, just because all slaadi have a toad-like appearance, does no mean they are the only slaadi types. Truth is, the Spawning Stone can create slaadi of any type. In fact, there may be slaadi forms that mortals simply have not seen, or have assigned a different name to them entirely...
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 09:49:44
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Well it would seem our Chaond and Zenythri friends are in big trouble as there arent any Lawful and Chaotic planar creatures that can spawn them due the fact they lack genitialia
Inevitables are machines and slaads dont have sex when they breed
The only Outsider who might have the "ability" breed is the Merchane but from their write up I get the impression that they would breed with non Merchane
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 11:02:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
The only Outsider who might have the "ability" breed is the Merchane but from their write up I get the impression that they would breed with non Merchane
Traditionally, the Arcane/Mercane do not breed. It's not quite known how they reproduce, if at all. Quite simply, because they are sexless. There has also never been a recorded instance where any mortal has seen a juvenile arcane, or an elderly one.
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 20:05:59
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
This really depends on the type of form that the slaadi take. Remember, just because all slaadi have a toad-like appearance, does no mean they are the only slaadi types. Truth is, the Spawning Stone can create slaadi of any type. In fact, there may be slaadi forms that mortals simply have not seen, or have assigned a different name to them entirely...
Yep and also the Death and Gray Slaadi also tend to have Character classes, and some of them take Spellcasting classes so could use magic to change their form. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2005 : 04:19:28
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
This really depends on the type of form that the slaadi take. Remember, just because all slaadi have a toad-like appearance, does no mean they are the only slaadi types. Truth is, the Spawning Stone can create slaadi of any type. In fact, there may be slaadi forms that mortals simply have not seen, or have assigned a different name to them entirely...
Yep and also the Death and Gray Slaadi also tend to have Character classes, and some of them take Spellcasting classes so could use magic to change their form.
Actually, most slaadi can take character classes. As I recall, there was once a slaad cleric mentioned somewhere, although who or what he truly worshipped... was left open for debate  . It was my theory that he worshipped pure chaos itself, a concept rather than a deity.
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edbonny
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
157 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2005 : 14:41:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
The modules set in the Silver marches
Incidently how do you get a Zenythri? Demons, Slaads and Celestials and Devils are flesh and blood and can therefore breed with mortals thus create Half Outsiders. The Lawful Outsiders are all constructs and are therefore not able to breed
When I wrote up the zenythri and chaond for the MM2, there was this quandary of parentage.
Slaadi, being the chaotic things they are, either follow rules of their own making or no rules at all -- so a desire to mate with other species was not something I considered a problem. It was simply one of a thousand things an impulsive slaad could do at any given moment. Mechanics sort of become the stickler here though. Are slaadi equipped for the job? The answer seems obvious - no. There are no half-slaad running around (at least not yet). The blue and red slaadi do reproduce but with an infectious attack that only results in another slaad. But with slaadi of green rank and higher, there is the potential to mate with another specied. All those slaadi have the ability to change shape (something which grants the slaad the natural weapons and extraordinary special attacks of the form it takes AND also causes the slaad to lose its own slaadi natural weapons/extraordinary attacks - in other words, the slaad physically resembles its new form and becomes physically functional as if it were a member of its new form). I take this to mean that they can also reproduce with the race they chose to take the shape of. Here is where I thought that chaonds were most likely to find their ancestry. I had originally wanted to make them as a free-spririted, fey-like creature of whimsy but the powers at Wizards thought it more appropriate to design a chaotic planetouched race around the anarchic template from the Manual of the Planes.
As far as zenythri go, this is even more of a problem. They can be loosely associated with the mercane (zenythri are purple, too), but the mercane are not really the lawful neutral icons of mechanus. I really don't think any modron could mate or even would mate with anything ever (maybe a rogue modron who can shapechange but that just seems very implausible all around. I use the below theory to explain these lawful planetouched.
I have always felt since way back in the days of DnD 1e, that planar eneregies (that is the alignment-based planar presence one feels when arriving on a plane - utter evil, despair, etc.) could change the nature of any creature simply by being exposed to it. This is most evident in the 1e creature, the bodak, who only comes into existence as a result of spending too much time on the Abyss. The bodak got my mental gears grinding as I thought of other possibilities of how this energy might manifest itself. When planescape brought us the planetouched, it came to me that one did not always need to have fiendish or celestial ancestry to be born a planetouched. What if an ancestor simply spent a lot exposed to planar energies and these energies manifested one day in the ancestor's children, grandchildren, etc. A visit to the planes could be the culprit here as could exposure to portal seepage.
Imagine a barbarian tribe in Narfell who relocate their camp above a forgotten, buried portal to the Abyss. The ancient portal, created during the height of the Narfell Empire, has decayed and leaks a terrible Abyssal energy. 9 months+ later, the camp begins experiencing the birth of tiefling children born to 2 human parents. This brings in a lot of good roleplaying opportunities: Are these tiefling babies considered cursed and left on a hill top to die? Considered a blessing and raised as part of the tribe? Disguised by the parents and raised as a human? Sold off as slaves? What if it is the tribal chief's baby who sees some sort of sybolism in his tiefling baby son? The possibilities are endless.
- Ed
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2005 : 22:34:39
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Hmmm interesting idea....Thanks Ed
Any ideas what starting Regions would be suitable for the Chaond and Zenythri?
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2005 : 05:20:42
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quote:
Originally posted by edbonny
When I wrote up the zenythri and chaond for the MM2, there was this quandary of parentage.
...
There are a few points I want to discuss with you Mr Bonny, about these details you just posted.
Unfortunately, they will now have to wait, as I am short on time.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2005 : 14:07:43
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quote:
Originally posted by edbonny
When I wrote up the zenythri and chaond for the MM2, there was this quandary of parentage.
Slaadi, being the chaotic things they are, either follow rules of their own making or no rules at all -- so a desire to mate with other species was not something I considered a problem. It was simply one of a thousand things an impulsive slaad could do at any given moment.
I rather like that. Given the nature of Limbo, and the nature of the Slaadi, regardless of whether reproduction is impossible, it's simply possible because of who they are and where they live. It fits the slaadi conception so well.
quote:
Mechanics sort of become the stickler here though. Are slaadi equipped for the job? The answer seems obvious - no. There are no half-slaad running around (at least not yet).
Actually there is, or rather, there was.
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The blue and red slaadi do reproduce but with an infectious attack that only results in another slaad. But with slaadi of green rank and higher, there is the potential to mate with another specied. All those slaadi have the ability to change shape (something which grants the slaad the natural weapons and extraordinary special attacks of the form it takes AND also causes the slaad to lose its own slaadi natural weapons/extraordinary attacks - in other words, the slaad physically resembles its new form and becomes physically functional as if it were a member of its new form). I take this to mean that they can also reproduce with the race they chose to take the shape of.
I can see that. But again, the nature of the Spawning Stone might suggest otherwise.
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I really don't think any modron could mate or even would mate with anything ever (maybe a rogue modron who can shapechange but that just seems very implausible all around.
Maybe not in the traditional sense, but who really knows what happens in the Infinity Pool .
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I have always felt since way back in the days of DnD 1e, that planar eneregies (that is the alignment-based planar presence one feels when arriving on a plane - utter evil, despair, etc.) could change the nature of any creature simply by being exposed to it.
I've often run my planar campaigns in much the same way. Some planes have greater effects though, especially on those creatures who are directly opposed, morally, to the alignment of the plane.
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This is most evident in the 1e creature, the bodak, who only comes into existence as a result of spending too much time on the Abyss. The bodak got my mental gears grinding as I thought of other possibilities of how this energy might manifest itself.
It has been speculated that the slaadi are actually the nature of Limbo made manifest.
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Edited by - The Sage on 20 Jan 2005 14:09:37 |
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Chaond and Zenythri in the FR
