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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 09:23:48
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Ok I just started reading it so no spoilers please.
1) Gorstag? Shandril's Gorstag?
2) Kara is obviously more then just a bard, but in any case, maybe my memory collected more combwebs then a lich's tomb, HOWEVER, I seem to recall in Song & Sword getting the impression that the bard as an adventuring class had kinda fallen out of the way of things in the Realms. Kinda like yes there were Bards, but for the most part simple storytellers with no magical talent or adventuring usefulness (certain Silver haired sisters of renoun and prettyboy sidekicks excluded.) I also seem to remember Bard schools starting to reopen to once again and encourage the old and proper ways again torward the end of the series. Based on Kara's non-chalantness about adventuring alone and as a bard, I would assume that infact the schools have become a success and adventuring Bards are a healthy "class" again in the Realms. Are my observation whole correct (without spoiling The Rage) to this point?
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"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 11:19:46
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1) Nah, just someone with the same name.
2) It's been a while since I read the book, but I don't recall any references to bardic colleges. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 11:39:31
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
2) Kara is obviously more then just a bard, but in any case, maybe my memory collected more combwebs then a lich's tomb, HOWEVER, I seem to recall in Song & Sword getting the impression that the bard as an adventuring class had kinda fallen out of the way of things in the Realms. Kinda like yes there were Bards, but for the most part simple storytellers with no magical talent or adventuring usefulness (certain Silver haired sisters of renoun and prettyboy sidekicks excluded.) I also seem to remember Bard schools starting to reopen to once again and encourage the old and proper ways again torward the end of the series. Based on Kara's non-chalantness about adventuring alone and as a bard, I would assume that infact the schools have become a success and adventuring Bards are a healthy "class" again in the Realms. Are my observation whole correct (without spoiling The Rage) to this point?
There are no references to the barding colleges in The Rage, and in any case, Kara's profession as a bard is completely disconnected from what happens in Elfsong. Read on; you'll see. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 15:29:05
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
2) Kara is obviously more then just a bard...Are my observation whole correct (without spoiling The Rage) to this point?
Keep reading and you'll find that your deduction concerning Kara is very accurate. Suffice to say when her secrets come out it makes for some nice tension.
SB who can't wait a few more weeks until the next novel in the series is out. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 15:43:19
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SirUrza, just a terminology note here: there have always been bards (and colleges) in the Realms, from the first and unaffected by the various rules changes of the evolving D&D game. When you read Ed Greenwood-penned Realmslore, the “simple storytellers with no magical talent” (adventuring usefulness varying from individual to individual, of course) you refer to are what Ed calls “minstrels.”
Tjhat’s why you can read Ed sentences beginning: Bards and minstrels have been known to. . .
And to confirm, yes, the Gorstag in THE RAGE is not the Gorstag of Shandril’s Saga.
THO |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 17:52:22
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Alright, for some reason Song & Swords left me feeling that bards were a dying adventuring "class" at one point in the Realms but it's good to know that I miss read.
Thanks guys. I'm glad someone atleast knew what I was talking about. :) |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 17:57:15
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The way I interperet that one is that characters with more than a few levels of Bard were relatively rare, and those were either self-taught or schooled by a mentor.
You don't need a college to be a bard, any more than you need one to be a wizard; it's just that when you've got one, you get more people trained in that profession. That's how colleges work. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 18:07:46
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quote:
You don't need a college to be a bard, any more than you need one to be a wizard; it's just that when you've got one, you get more people trained in that profession. That's how colleges work.
Yes, but I think we'll agree that there are almost more wizards running around the realms that haven't gone to a college then there are bards. :) |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 20:57:27
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| Of course they are. Most minstrals would be experts, or perhaps rogues. Monks also get Perform. However, the magic of music is well-established. It's rarer than wizardry, but no one in the Realms would be surprised to see bardic magic. On top of that, it's far more common among tribal folk than wizardry, which shows that colligiate bards are hardly necessary. Just because the colleges went out of business doesn't mean that bards are some kind of lost breed! |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 21:02:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Just because the colleges went out of business doesn't mean that bards are some kind of lost breed!
Dying breed was the impression I'd gotten from Song & Swords. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 21:51:29
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In the United States, it seems like the student with knowledge about current events, history, and science is a dying breed. That doesn't mean there aren't a lot of people out there who are very knowledgable on the subject.
All that I got from Elfsong was that the college-trained, formally educated bard was a dying breed. Not the class. (Though at the time of the book, I'd say that the bard class probably was.) |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2004 : 02:35:46
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| As SB stated.Keep on reading.Your deductions will be accurate about Kara,and it does make for an interesting scenario.I too cannot wait the next few more weeks for book two.You know I was kind of hoping that WoTC would show a little Christmas spirit,and throw it our way a little early. |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2004 : 04:28:22
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| Well I had some time to read and decided the Rage would be a good way to get the ball rolling since it doesn't look like I'd be reading anything from that "Galaxy Far Away" anytime before 2006 unless they surprise us with a GOOD prequel era novel... yeah right. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2004 : 04:56:23
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quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
As SB stated.Keep on reading.Your deductions will be accurate about Kara,and it does make for an interesting scenario.I too cannot wait the next few more weeks for book two.You know I was kind of hoping that WoTC would show a little Christmas spirit,and throw it our way a little early.
B&N (which usually is the first online vendor to list WOTC books available) has just listed The Rite as ships within 2-3 days. Thus, it looks, like other WOTC paperbacks this year, that this novel will be coming out early as well. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2004 : 10:45:15
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B&N (which usually is the first online vendor to list WOTC books available) has just listed The Rite as ships within 2-3 days. Thus, it looks, like other WOTC paperbacks this year, that this novel will be coming out early as well.
I tend to ignore what the online bookstores say about release dates many don't bother updating their information. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2004 : 09:53:11
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Alrighty, new question.
Still haven't finished The Rage and I won't be able to look at Realms of Dragons for another 8 days, so I'll ask anyway...
Alustriel and sisters vs Sammaster, has that story been penned yet? |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2004 : 10:04:41
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Alrighty, new question.
Still haven't finished The Rage and I won't be able to look at Realms of Dragons for another 8 days, so I'll ask anyway...
Alustriel and sisters vs Sammaster, has that story been penned yet?
Cult of the Dragon sourcebook should have that story.... I know it is in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2004 : 18:16:20
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Hmm I know Lathander's battle with Sammaster is in Volo's but I don't remember anything else in there.
I'll have to take a look at the Cult book later, but I don't remember the battle actually writen out. I think it was as cryptic as the mention in the novel. :) |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 18:45:54
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| Finished it, good read, can't wait for book2. :) |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 19:56:08
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Glad you liked it, SirUrza.
According to Amazon, Book 2 becomes available 12/28, so you don't have to wait too long. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 20:41:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Glad you liked it, SirUrza.
According to Amazon, Book 2 becomes available 12/28, so you don't have to wait too long.
Well that's good news indeed. Gives me plenty of time to finish Forsaken House and something else. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 22:50:02
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Finished it, good read, can't wait for book2. :)
Well met
Care to expand on thine experience with the novel, SirUrza?  I'd like to hear thy views on the novel, as i'm sure would Richard and many other scribes herein. Any absolutely beautiful novel, in my opinion  |
Alaundo
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 04:59:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Glad you liked it, SirUrza.
According to Amazon, Book 2 becomes available 12/28, so you don't have to wait too long.
Book II has been available at B&N and BAM online for over a week. Amazon is usually the last online vendor to obtain WOTC novels which is a pain when you are a FR fan with an Amazon credit.  |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 05:11:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
Well met. Care to expand on thine experience with the novel, SirUrza? I'd like to hear thy views on the novel, as i'm sure would Richard and many other scribes herein. Any absolutely beautiful novel, in my opinion
I'd love to offer some input.
So far it's a very interesting cast of characters. I just hope that not all of the new novels feature 3.5 PC races that keep popping up in new supplements. That novelty will get old in a hurry, kinda like good drow really tiring, really fast. However, I fear after starting on Forsaken House (and having some idea about Venom's Taste is about) that will be the case.
Call me a softy, but I'm always a sucker for a romance between adventurers. I guess I just like it when there's more content to the story then kill the bad guys with just your life and all the Realms on the line. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 05:17:17
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
That novelty will get old in a hurry, kinda like good drow really tiring, really fast.
There are good drow in the Realms? You mean besides the dead kind?
quote:
Call me a softy, but I'm always a sucker for a romance between adventurers. I guess I just like it when there's more content to the story then kill the bad guys with just your life and all the Realms on the line.
The tension between Dorn and Kara is one of the novel's best features. That and a charming avariel. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 18:36:03
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrzaThat novelty will get old in a hurry, kinda like good drow really tiring, really fast.
There are good drow in the Realms? You mean besides the dead kind?
*snickers*
You know what I mean.
quote:
quote:
Call me a softy, but I'm always a sucker for a romance between adventurers. I guess I just like it when there's more content to the story then kill the bad guys with just your life and all the Realms on the line.
The tension between Dorn and Kara is one of the novel's best features. That and a charming avariel.
Not the avariel, silly boy. The Dragon and dragonhater. :) |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2004 : 05:05:02
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Not the avariel, silly boy. The Dragon and dragonhater. :)
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2004 : 05:24:15
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| He was talking about the avariel as a separate feature. (And I didn't much like him, actually. But then, I didn't much enjoy the book, for reasons I've stated before. I just gave up and went to something else that actually has a fourth wall.) |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2004 : 12:11:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
He was talking about the avariel as a separate feature. (And I didn't much like him, actually. But then, I didn't much enjoy the book, for reasons I've stated before. I just gave up and went to something else that actually has a fourth wall.)
I'm curious -- apart from the overabundance of not-very-subtle gaming associations/terms, in what way did the novel break the fourth wall? (Or ignore it, as you seem to imply?)
Me, as I've said before elsewhere, I just found the Kara/Dorn romance utterly unconvincing. Unfortunately, it wasn't minor enough to ignore. But oh well. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2004 : 13:22:47
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Basically, I think that it was just too obvious what the gameplay aspects of the action was. Non-battle scenes were okay -- well-written, really. I've said it before, though, how it got on my nerves the way that the battle dialogue was slanted as if coming through the log of a D&D game. I can write in that, obviously, as I've put that up on this site. But it was a pain in the neck, it felt unconvincing, and it's far too jaring to the reader. The only reason I did it was because the little story was just supposed to be a prologue to a PbeM log, and if I was going to novelize the rest, I couldn't switch styles.
In a novel, though, even a novel in a gaming universe, I don't want that little bit. Some people love to guess at all the little clues; technically, I suppose I do to, but not at the expense of losing myself in a story. That's what I want to do; I want to forget I'm looking at a paper and visualize the action. I can't do that if I'm thinking "Oh, must be suchandsuch feat." I'd actually identified several places that could have been, in my opinion, done better. Same action, but phrased so that it doesn't read like the author had the apropriate manual open to double-check it, the way I did when I was writing that fight scene. I've since forgotten most of it, but one I remember is how obviously one character has rogue levels, because he obviously has uncanny dodge, because he turns on instinct to dodge a surprise attack as he's doing a bit of burglary. All that was needed would have been that he heard a slight sound; if it happened like that, I never would have noticed it. And the thing about writing is that if you notice it, it was either on purpose or a terrible mistake.
I need to go back and try to finish it, though I might have to just wait until I forget the rest and then start over again. It's an important piece of work for the Realms, and it's well-written in terms of grammar, flow, etc., and even in immersion . . . up to the point that someone makes an attack roll, because I don't want to hear the dice rolling for this. I just want a story I can get lost in. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2004 : 14:51:58
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| Ahh, I see. Yes, I agree; I did get that impression, too, and there were a few instances where I could just almost hear the rolling dice. |
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The Rage questions
