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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Nov 2004 : 23:49:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Lashan
To say that making any change to the game world is turning your campaign into a home brewed game world is ridiculous. If any DM every creates anything or anyone that is not from a novel, they are then deviating from the "cannon" material and making it a home brewed game according to that logic. IF someone creates a new tavern in an area that has never had a novel, then that person is stepping outside what is listed as "official canon", which is why the concept of "official" is absurd, really. If you really are a purist to the whole FR world, you can never create a new thought then what is done in the novels or game products. What a boring world that would be.
If someone wants to change a few things in the FR, then it's not that big a deal. If someone wants to drop a new city where one isn't, it isn't (or usually isn't) a big deal. If the DM wants to ignore the ToT, then it isn't that big a deal. If the DM wants to turn the Zhentarium into a group of tinkerer gnomes from DragonLance that are out to create the Walmart of FR, that IS a big deal!!!!
I started reading FR when it was just articles in Dragon magazine. I read and loved the original boxed set. Ever since then, I have viewed each new product as an option. There have been many things that happen to the offical version of the game world that just doesn't jive with (what I consider) the original flavor of the game world. I ignore that wich doesn't feel "right" for me. I still consider myself playing and DMing in the Forgotten Realms and not some home brewed version.
This is what I've been trying to say. :) But Lashan usually says it better then I do most of the time. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Lashan
Learned Scribe
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2004 : 16:44:51
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| Thank you :) But you are usually more accurate when it comes to the facts. I'm just verbose and opinionated :) |
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the psychotic seaotter
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2004 : 18:05:42
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I have to say I am a pretty big fan of the realsm since it became the only world I even play in and has been that way since I first encountered it over 10 years ago.
However, I have made my changes to a few things and to me they feel better. Some worked some didn't but it was a learnoing experience.
For example I never like the whole story behind the Anauroch. I changed it to being a wasteland that was created by the fall of a Mordor like empire centuries before. It is inahbeted with orcs and other nasties and is a threat as well as a good adventuring locations.
As well I made the Shade into former higer-ups of that empire that have began their return to Faerun.
I also Hated Fzoulas the leader of the Zhents and have changed them to where Semmemon is currently in control and has successfully taken Daggerdale and is threatening Cormyr.
So far these ideas have worked and though they deviate from canon and accepted lore I have grown to like them.
Ideas that didn't work was a restructuring of Dieties and removing half of Faeruns Pantheon. I went back to the traditional Dieties with a few changes. One being that Bhaal is not dead and is hiding as well as lessening Cyrics power some and Bane is still dead in my game..Although he may return soon.
I tend to ignore the novels and official canon after my campaign starts and only add in things if I like them. one of wich was adding the Onyx tower into the game as well as some events from Neverwinter nights, I will also be adding events from the Hunters Blades Trilogy after I finish them as well.
All in all Though I love the realms and its flavor I have changed things to suit my needs. Nothing earth shaking and nothing major in the whole scheme of things but I am not as strict as some are. |
Run run as fast as you can you can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man...
The Arcane Brotherhood, Wizards of the Sword Coast. |
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Elrond Half Elven
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
322 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2004 : 10:37:31
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One of the First 'Rules' of the Game was Use what you like and discard the rest. Edition after Edition this has been less emphasised (IMHO).
What right does a player have to say that another's game isnt a 'true' FR game when Orcs are walking about with lasers and elves driving trains? They have none (IMHO). I wouldnt like these changes infact I would probally leave a game with them in it (This is because I don't like that Flavour i.e. There is no Realmspace in my games) however I still dont have the right to say to that person that they cannot change features of the CS- even fundimental changes.
Don't like the weave? change it! Don't want any orcs in the setting? Change it! Its your game its your rules.
That doesn't mean you own the rights to the world but as long as you are playing it and not distributing it under the FR label your fine...
That last point seems to contradict the rest of my arguement, but IMHO no player of the realms who isn't involved in the development of the products can distribute material stating it is Realms lore or under the FR logo. It canbe said at the begining of the text that it is a fancreated text based upon the FR. This should include ALL changes or additions to the Realms that are fan created.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that no-one should create or change parts of the Realms or put them on the net, but rather they should make sure that people knows its their own version.
Basically what I'm trying to say is Each to their own.
Sorry for the Rant
Hanx
Elrond |
Once upon a midnight dreary, while i pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore-
While i nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
-The Raven by Edgar Allan Poe |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2004 : 16:17:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Elrond Half Elven
Sorry for the Rant
Hanx
Elrond
Trust me Elrond that was not a rant, just a passionate opinion. I've seen the difference this morning so trust me on this. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
SB |
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the psychotic seaotter
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2004 : 16:35:32
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I'd say the most radical change I have made is the fact I am moving away form the D&D system for my FR game. Since there were jsut too many things about the current edition that I did not care for I decided to switch to the Castles and Crusades system.
It's really not that much different as C&C is designed with veterans of the older eds in mind. In fact I have found the system returns alot of the flavor to the setting that I missed.
Conversion can be tough at times with the biggest problem being what to do with the PrC's I liked. So IMHO FR trancends even the system barrier when it comes to flavor. |
Run run as fast as you can you can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man...
The Arcane Brotherhood, Wizards of the Sword Coast. |
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Elrond Half Elven
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
322 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2004 : 11:46:06
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quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius Black
Trust me Elrond that was not a rant, just a passionate opinion. I've seen the difference this morning so trust me on this. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
SB
Thanks Alot SB, it is just that I am not sure that I am like the direction that I think the game is going. Don't get me wrong some of the products seem excellent however they all just seem abit arbitory now. *Shrugs*
I dunno, does anyone else have an Opinion on this?
Hanx
Elrond |
Once upon a midnight dreary, while i pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore-
While i nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
-The Raven by Edgar Allan Poe |
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the psychotic seaotter
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2004 : 15:19:08
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Elrond: I agree with what you have said. Myself I have had problems with the increased focus on canon and I have had some problems with where the Realms (as well as D&D) are going.
I find myself drawing more and more from my 1e Graybox than from my 3e FRCS. Don't get me wrong some of the 3e Realms stuff was just cool, Magic of Faerun was probably the best Realms book I have seen to date.
I also ebjoyed Faiths and Pantheons, Races of Faerun, and several others. However I found Lords of Darkness just ok and I have some problems with Shining South that's why I haven't bought it yet.
It also seems like there is no reason to their detailings of various regions on Faaerun, I would love to see some updates on the Dalelands, The North and Western Heartlands, as well as some new info on Kara-tur but I am not holding my breath.
After also looking at the 2005 list of products I think only one of the books would appeal to me. I think Lost empires would be great, Champions of Ruin is not something I really care for unless it includes some good DM material for villian npcs and The Waterdeep book would be great but I would have to look at it since my Waterdeep is alot different than the published one. (it was sacked by an Orc army then lost a war with Baldurs gate so it is now recovering from these events).
I know I'm Rambling so I'll wrap this up. Yes To each thier own about the realms Personally I only think 'the rules' apply if you as the DM wants them to. You can still keep the Realms Feel and Flavor and not play by the book FR. |
Run run as fast as you can you can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man...
The Arcane Brotherhood, Wizards of the Sword Coast. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2004 : 16:51:07
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quote:
Originally posted by the psychotic seaotter
Elrond: I agree with what you have said. Myself I have had problems with the increased focus on canon and I have had some problems with where the Realms (as well as D&D) are going.
What problems are you having with canon and the direction of the Realms and D&D?
I've not enjoyed the push in recent years for more rules over the inclusion of history/lore in WOTC and other gaming company products. Thus, I find myself buying less and less with each year.
quote:
However I found Lords of Darkness just ok and I have some problems with Shining South that's why I haven't bought it yet.
To me, Cloak & Dagger has proved more useful than LoD which I got rid of. What problems are you having with SS? It is a really well done tome. I decided to not keep that tome because of a lack of interest in the covered area. Moreover, my players don't find any interest in the region as well. Add in the fact I'm done with the, it's a Realms product and I must have it, and it's impractical to waste my $$$ for something I'm not going to use. I'd much rather save my cash for something else then.
quote:
It also seems like there is no reason to their detailings of various regions on Faaerun, I would love to see some updates on the Dalelands, The North and Western Heartlands, as well as some new info on Kara-tur but I am not holding my breath.
Well, Waterdeep is next, after that...who knows.
quote:
After also looking at the 2005 list of products I think only one of the books would appeal to me. I think Lost empires would be great, Champions of Ruin is not something I really care for unless it includes some good DM material for villian npcs and The Waterdeep book would be great but I would have to look at it since my Waterdeep is alot different than the published one. (it was sacked by an Orc army then lost a war with Baldurs gate so it is now recovering from these events).
Two of the three are of interest to me. I'm optimistic about Lost Empries, cautiously optimistic, but optimistic. I'm just not planning to buy CoR yet. But, perhaps as I learn more about the tome, I will change my mind. As of right now, the subject matter just isn't that interesting to me. Waterdeep is my first love, and the city in my world isn't that changed from WOTC's own, thus the book is a lock for me to purchase it.
quote:
I know I'm Rambling so I'll wrap this up.
Please keep rambling in the future. Your post was very enjoyable.
quote:
Yes To each thier own about the realms Personally I only think 'the rules' apply if you as the DM wants them to. You can still keep the Realms Feel and Flavor and not play by the book FR.
Free will that retains the Realms flavor without being shackled by the publishing company's vision? Madness, crazy talk I tell you.  |
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the psychotic seaotter
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2004 : 17:35:31
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quote:
What problems are you having with canon and the direction of the Realms and D&D?
I've not enjoyed the push in recent years for more rules over the inclusion of history/lore in WOTC and other gaming company products. Thus, I find myself buying less and less with each year.
You've pretty much wrapped up how I feel right there. I also feel the system has suffered by the "rule for everything' approach as well as the extra options that are outside of the PHB. Epic and Savage Species comes to mind for interesting concepts with poor execution.
I miss the Lore/History that the older books dealt with and I enjoyed FR but I have notuiced that even it is falling to a 'crunch invasion'.
As to canon it seems that WOTC pushes for people to not deviate form published canon more and more. I may be wrong but that seems to be their attitude as of late.
quote:
To me, Cloak & Dagger has proved more useful than LoD which I got rid of. What problems are you having with SS? It is a really well done tome. I decided to not keep that tome because of a lack of interest in the covered area. Moreover, my players don't find any interest in the region as well. Add in the fact I'm done with the, it's a Realms product and I must have it, and it's impractical to waste my $$$ for something I'm not going to use. I'd much rather save my cash for something else then.
I'll Have to check out Cloak and Dagger definately. My Shining south problem comes from being an area I may never play in and a minor nitpick that I just can't over look..basically the Airships man the airships  ....I just can't get past that.
Like you I am just getting things I know I will use. My next two purchases will be the Siver Marches and The Underdark since I know I will use those areas. Beyond that I have no clue what I'll get.
quote:
Well, Waterdeep is next, after that...who knows.
I am looking forward to that.
quote:
Two of the three are of interest to me. I'm optimistic about Lost Empries, cautiously optimistic, but optimistic. I'm just not planning to buy CoR yet. But, perhaps as I learn more about the tome, I will change my mind. As of right now, the subject matter just isn't that interesting to me. Waterdeep is my first love, and the city in my world isn't that changed from WOTC's own, thus the book is a lock for me to purchase it.
The only reason for my Waterdeep changes were past campaign events but I think teh book wiull still be useful. It will be nice to use something besides the city system for it
quote:
Please keep rambling in the future. Your post was very enjoyable.
 awww thanks lol
quote:
Free will that retains the Realms flavor without being shackled by the publishing company's vision? Madness, crazy talk I tell you.
Yes I should be locked up with Storm Silverhand and have her punish me... |
Run run as fast as you can you can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man...
The Arcane Brotherhood, Wizards of the Sword Coast. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2004 : 17:52:52
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quote:
Originally posted by the psychotic seaotter
You've pretty much wrapped up how I feel right there. I also feel the system has suffered by the "rule for everything' approach as well as the extra options that are outside of the PHB. Epic and Savage Species comes to mind for interesting concepts with poor execution.
Don't forget the "a new race" for every product mentality. 
quote:
I'll Have to check out Cloak and Dagger definately.
It's an older product, but filled with lore. I think there is an electronic version available.
quote:
Like you I am just getting things I know I will use. My next two purchases will be the Siver Marches and The Underdark since I know I will use those areas. Beyond that I have no clue what I'll get.
I hope you enjoy Underdark more than I did. I found Drizzt's Guide much more useful.
quote:
Yes I should be locked up with Storm Silverhand and have her punish me...
Qilue and Laeral for me if I'm getting to choose my jailers. |
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Lashan
Learned Scribe
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2004 : 21:18:09
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| I've found a few things really annoying about FR. The return of the Shades is one. The destruction of Tilverton is a waste, in my humble opinion. |
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the psychotic seaotter
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2004 : 21:36:23
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The return of Bane for me was a big annoyance. I like the Shade in idea I just thought the execution was poor. Even though I didn't like some of the more recent events I am more upset with the lack of novels for the bigger events like the Manshoon Wars, Banes return and I don't believe the formation of the Silverymooon confederation was novelized either.
I may not completely like the changes but some of those stories do give me some good ideas for the game. |
Run run as fast as you can you can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man...
The Arcane Brotherhood, Wizards of the Sword Coast. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2004 : 22:03:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Lashan
I've found a few things really annoying about FR. The return of the Shades is one. The destruction of Tilverton is a waste, in my humble opinion.
That whole trilogy of novels could have been done a lot better... My biggest gripe is the fact that the white hats were protrayed as a bunch of short-sighted, bumbling idiots.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2004 : 01:37:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That whole trilogy of novels could have been done a lot better... My biggest gripe is the fact that the white hats were protrayed as a bunch of short-sighted, bumbling idiots.
I believe we call those supervisors in our world.
What's sad is that without reading the quote in your message, I knew immediately what series you were writing about. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2004 : 03:39:33
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That whole trilogy of novels could have been done a lot better... My biggest gripe is the fact that the white hats were protrayed as a bunch of short-sighted, bumbling idiots.
I believe we call those supervisors in our world.
What's sad is that without reading the quote in your message, I knew immediately what series you were writing about.
If it's that painfully obvious without even reading the quote, then it is a sad note, indeed.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Lashan
Learned Scribe
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2004 : 15:11:19
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Actually, I would like to see LESS events in novels. I don't read the novels and I don't like the novels. I want a game world that is a game world, not something that is based on novels. I know that some will say that the novels that Ed wrote came before DnD, but I was introduced to FR as a game setting. I played in it as a game setting for many years. It wasn't until the ToT that a novel changed the game. I disliked it. I still dislike it. I don't mind there being novels for the game world, but they should be optional add-ons for the game, not defining the game world.
I know I am in the minority. |
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2004 : 16:15:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Lashan
I know I am in the minority.
Most unfortunately you are, but I agree with you wholeheartedly. Of course I do understand that WotC have to keep things going – introduce and develop new interesting personalities, foreshadow possible future events, fool the players into assuming a certain outcome and shock them with an entirely different one –, every RPG company does. But most companies draw these pictures in game accessories instead of encouraging their players to purchase the novels in which those events are described in detail. "You wanna know how this or that came to pass? Buy our mediocre novels and find out!" By the way, I consider the use of the word "mediocre" flattering.
If the official novels – which I guess no one would read if it wasn't for the need for details and love for the Realms and out of curiosity, certainly not because of their literary quality *cough* – weren't the dumb dime novels they are (the exception proves the rule, though exceptions are few and far between) but could stand on their own, this marketing strategy wouldn't be so noticeable. And that's not even the authors' fault, but the fault of the company and how it wishes its novels to be structured, formerly TSR, now WotC. "Not too much details to immerse in, no boring suspense, many flashy fights, no long discussions, no dawdling with precise and intriguing characterization, don't stop the action!" (Ed said it best by quoting one of his TSR-editors, but I don't remember his exact wording.) The majority of these novels are written for twelve-year-olds, and we're supposed to read them, cringe in abject terror, try to forget every good book we've ever read so we don't give in to the temptation to draw comparions – just to find out how exactly the Shades' return or what have you did occur? No, thanks. But why am I ranting anyway? *sigh*
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2004 : 17:05:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Lashan
Actually, I would like to see LESS events in novels. I don't read the novels and I don't like the novels. I want a game world that is a game world, not something that is based on novels. I know that some will say that the novels that Ed wrote came before DnD, but I was introduced to FR as a game setting. I played in it as a game setting for many years. It wasn't until the ToT that a novel changed the game. I disliked it. I still dislike it. I don't mind there being novels for the game world, but they should be optional add-ons for the game, not defining the game world.
I know I am in the minority.
Lashan, its the novels which add so much flavor to the Realms. How would you expect the campaign to advance and events unfold? By the release of a new FRCS hardcover every year?! Maybe you need to read some of the latter FR novels, which are simply stunning!  |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2004 : 17:14:26
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I have liked many of the novels, and my introduction to the Realms came from the novels. Sure, some novels have been less than spectacular, but I don't agree with the assertation that they are written for 12-year-olds. I have actually enjoyed a large number of the novels.
As for having events in the novels, I for one feel more connected to an event when it happens in a novel. A line or two in a sourcebook doesn't give me the same feel for the event that I get reading about it in a novel. Plus, the novels do more to move continuity forward than the sourcebooks do.
I'm not saying I want every novel to be a Realms-shaking event; far from it. But when there is a significant event, I'd rather read about it in a novel. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2004 : 18:15:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I have liked many of the novels, and my introduction to the Realms came from the novels. Sure, some novels have been less than spectacular, but I don't agree with the assertation that they are written for 12-year-olds. I have actually enjoyed a large number of the novels.
As for having events in the novels, I for one feel more connected to an event when it happens in a novel. A line or two in a sourcebook doesn't give me the same feel for the event that I get reading about it in a novel. Plus, the novels do more to move continuity forward than the sourcebooks do.
I'm not saying I want every novel to be a Realms-shaking event; far from it. But when there is a significant event, I'd rather read about it in a novel.
Ditto and as I've said before the old SSI novels based on the games are what got me into the setting, as well as the SSI games themselves. Sigh I miss my commodore 64. :) And also to correct Lashan: The 1st novel actually started to change the setting since it dealt with the deities of the mainland invading the Moonshaes. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Lashan
Learned Scribe
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2004 : 19:35:24
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Lord Rad, I am fine if the pass of events in FR slowed down considerably. I don't need the game desingers at WOTC to come up with plots for me to follow through with. I tend not to use the major events that they hand to me on a silver platter at all (or very few of them). Even if they did still have novels with lots of events, make them OPTIONAL. Make the game products that include all the info, not just what the "official" version of things are. A perfect example is that the Dead Gods were included in the old Faiths and Avatars series. It was very thoughtful and very appreciated. Why couldn't the new book have that? OH, perhaps it was because they felt it necessary to put all the gods' combat stats in instead?
I feel that there is enough of the game world that needs to be basically described first before they can move the plot forward. There are a lot of areas that just need detail and there is little impact as to wether or not Cormyr is being invaded or not. Why not focus on the bread and butter of the game world and leave the extra storyline stuff for DMs to make up on their own? Sure...sure, we are all DMs who don't have time. Well, I don't have time to edit out all the "canon" material from what I buy and I don't have time to detail those areas of the world that could have been done instead of a new book on the drow (or some other novel heavy area).
The last FR novel I read was the one called "Silverfire" or "Silverfall" or something like that. It was a plot that dealt with all the Seven Sisters. I really didn't like it. I felt it was almost like reading a super-hero novel. It was full of "in" jokes or references and about a bunch of NPCs that I really am not interested in or have no empathy for. It was more like a soap opera at times then I care for. |
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Lashan
Learned Scribe
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2004 : 20:01:13
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| kuje31, while the first novel might be about the gods invading, it is easily something that could be considered optional. You can play in the Moonshae Islands either pre or post that novel with little difficulty. It wasn't like a town was utter destroyed and no longer there. Also, a major god wasn't killed off in that novel or anything of that nature. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2004 : 21:23:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Lashan
kuje31, while the first novel might be about the gods invading, it is easily something that could be considered optional. You can play in the Moonshae Islands either pre or post that novel with little difficulty. It wasn't like a town was utter destroyed and no longer there. Also, a major god wasn't killed off in that novel or anything of that nature.
And how is this any different then any other FR material sourcebook or novel wise? ALL FR material is optional, Lashan. ToT's is optional. The return of Shade is optional. The silence of Lloth is optional. The star elves are optional. The named npc's are optional. I can go on and on about what is optional in the setting. I don't understand that arguement at all. My setting is after ToT's, which I never included, and I happen to manage to run it fine.
And actually a lot of the cantriv's in that novel were destroyed as was a goddess as was many of her druids as was many of the Ffolk who lived on the Moonshae's, etc.
How is this still any different then what sourcebooks and novels continue to do? Hells I even had a poster over IM's tell me, yesterday, that he want's Piergeiron to do die in the new Waterdeep sourcebook because FR has been to static in it's leaders. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 01 Dec 2004 21:25:57 |
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2004 : 21:38:53
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Of course everything is optional, but IMHO FR (or generally, D&D) doesn't emphasize this simple truth as clearly as many other RPGs. (Of course not, they want to sell their novels after all.) Personally, I change very much, because I find too many aspects to be not to my liking at all – mostly details, but also major events. Nonetheless I'm trying to cling to the "official" version of FR as closely as possible (if possible, of course), and to me it seems that many players do. I know some gaming groups which follow the official trail to a T though they don't particularly like this or that canonical turn of events, because they don't want to stray too far from canon. After all, the knowledge that thousands and thousands of people all over the world are playing in the same setting might be considered more intriguing by some than thinking we're all playing in our own parallel universes vaguely resembling the original.
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2004 : 21:54:19
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
How is this still any different then what sourcebooks and novels continue to do? Hells I even had a poster over IM's tell me, yesterday, that he want's Piergeiron to do die in the new Waterdeep sourcebook because FR has been to static in it's leaders.
Honestly, I kinda can see this guy's point. Most of the leaders of the various groups and regions have been in place for years, and it does seem a bit static. I'm not saying I want to see any particular leaders killed, but I would like to see some of them retire or move on or whatever.
quote:
Originally posted by Zorro
I know some gaming groups which follow the official trail to a T though they don't particularly like this or that canonical turn of events, because they don't want to stray too far from canon. After all, the knowledge that thousands and thousands of people all over the world are playing in the same setting might be considered more intriguing by some than thinking we're all playing in our own parallel universes vaguely resembling the original.
Zorro
Though I don't DM, if I did, I'd stay pretty much dead-on with the canon. I may not agree with everything TPTB do, but as a whole, they are a more imaginative bunch than I. Some of the stuff they've given us over the years has been simply wonderful, so I'm going to stick with the canon so long as it continues to prove interesting. |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2004 : 22:04:44
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That's the whole point, Wooly - nobody changes what he likes. So as long as you're content at worst, happy at best with the canon, there's no incentive to change things around. But if some major plot twist occurs you and your group absolutely hate, would you incorporate it just because it's canon? (Or rather: would you want your DM to do so?) And if you would, where'd be the sense in that, since we're playing to have fun?
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
Edited by - Zorro on 01 Dec 2004 22:37:58 |
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Lashan
Learned Scribe
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2004 : 22:35:11
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| What I hate is when source books don't include all the info, except what is current. The best example is the dead gods. They are included in the older Faiths and Avatars, but they aren't included in Faiths and Pantheons. Why? It's harder to fit FR the way you want after a few version changes and certain things get left out. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2004 : 22:37:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Zorro
Of course everything is optional, but IMHO FR (or generally, D&D) doesn't emphasize this simple truth as clearly as many other RPGs. (Of course not, they want to sell their novels after all.) Personally, I change very much, because I find too many aspects to be not to my liking at all – mostly details, but also major events. Nonetheless I'm trying to cling to the "official" version of FR as closely as possible (if possible, of course), and to me it seems that many players do. I know some gaming groups which follow the official trail to a T though they don't particularly like this or that canonical turn of events, because they don't want to stray too far from canon. After all, the knowledge that thousands and thousands of people all over the world are playing in the same setting might be considered more intriguing by some than thinking we're all playing in our own parallel universes vaguely resembling the original.
Zorro
It doesn't? Funny but every FR campaign box set or campaign sourcebook has said repeatedly, "It's your world. Do what you want with it. Everything in these books or box sets are optional."
Now even I stick to a lot of canon stuff as well but RSE's are right out. Sorry but they are gone I don't have time or even interest in trying sticking to canon RSE's when I've DM'd in the setting for over 10 years. I might include the RSE's or even minor events after a lot of trying to figure out how to work them in but if they don't work then they are gone. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2004 : 22:42:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Honestly, I kinda can see this guy's point. Most of the leaders of the various groups and regions have been in place for years, and it does seem a bit static. I'm not saying I want to see any particular leaders killed, but I would like to see some of them retire or move on or whatever.
Though I don't DM, if I did, I'd stay pretty much dead-on with the canon. I may not agree with everything TPTB do, but as a whole, they are a more imaginative bunch than I. Some of the stuff they've given us over the years has been simply wonderful, so I'm going to stick with the canon so long as it continues to prove interesting.
So can I on the changing of the leaders but it's just another thing that would bother people. But as I said to someone once on the WOTC boards, "That is the risk you got to deal with when using a published setting."
And aye I agree TSR and WOTC have come up with many good ideas I might never have thought of even if I don't include them in my setting. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Why so strict with the realms?
