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Gellion
Learned Scribe
140 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Nov 2004 : 23:08:42
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Well, I have noticed that a lot of realms fans are really strict with the realms. Meaning that they will not allow any outside influences, or change anything. It is strange because I have found that Dragonlance fans are generally more tolerant of weird stuff in Krynn. Now I am not insulting anybody, but does anybody know why a lot of relams fans do not seem to like to deviate from the core setting rules?
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"Paladine, you see the evil that surrounds me! You have been witness to the calamities that have been the scourge of Krynn... You must see now that this doctrine of balance will not work! I can sweep evil from this land. Destroy the ogre races. Bring the wayward humans into line! Find new homelands far away for the dwarves and the kender and the gnomes, those races not of your creation... I demand that you give me, too, the power to drive away the shadows of evil that darken the land!"- THE REIGN OF ISTAR, Tales IV |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2004 : 23:20:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
Well, I have noticed that a lot of realms fans are really strict with the realms. Meaning that they will not allow any outside influences, or change anything. It is strange because I have found that Dragonlance fans are generally more tolerant of weird stuff in Krynn. Now I am not insulting anybody, but does anybody know why a lot of relams fans do not seem to like to deviate from the core setting rules?
Help me out here with some specifics. What examples do you have about Realms fans not deviating from the core setting rules? And are you simply talking about rules or do you mean canon Realms history/lore? Because in my experiences I've encountered the exact opposite. |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2004 : 23:56:48
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| i agree to some extent. us Realms fans stick with the rules and laws of the Realms because you must stick with the way they work. however, most of us are very open and welcoming to new ideas and concepts as long as they are logical and not something rediculus |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 00:37:58
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Help me out here with some specifics. What examples do you have about Realms fans not deviating from the core setting rules? And are you simply talking about rules or do you mean canon Realms history/lore? Because in my experiences I've encountered the exact opposite.
Has to echo Sirius here, can you give us some examples? I have changed my version a lot over the years while adding new rules, races, classes, spells, magic items, etc..... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Gellion
Learned Scribe
140 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 01:09:40
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Help me out here with some specifics. What examples do you have about Realms fans not deviating from the core setting rules? And are you simply talking about rules or do you mean canon Realms history/lore? Because in my experiences I've encountered the exact opposite.
Has to echo Sirius here, can you give us some examples? I have changed my version a lot over the years while adding new rules, races, classes, spells, magic items, etc.....
Well, a lot of the times when someone suggests some other magic than from the weave, some fans seem to go crazy. Another thing that some people seem to dislike is increasing realms technology, and having some Steampunk type stuff. I mean Dl fans wiill say "Do what you want" while realms fans will freak and tell you NO you cant do that.
Another exapmle I can think of is one time there was a Christian player whose DM ran the realms, and he wanted to play a Cleric, but did not want to whorship a deity in the game. Well, a lot of te replies were along the lines of "He sould not be playing in the realms if he does not want to worship a deity"
It just seemed ridiculous that they did not want him to be a Cleric who worshipped an ideal in the realms because the FRCS says that all Clerics have to worship deities. |
"Paladine, you see the evil that surrounds me! You have been witness to the calamities that have been the scourge of Krynn... You must see now that this doctrine of balance will not work! I can sweep evil from this land. Destroy the ogre races. Bring the wayward humans into line! Find new homelands far away for the dwarves and the kender and the gnomes, those races not of your creation... I demand that you give me, too, the power to drive away the shadows of evil that darken the land!"- THE REIGN OF ISTAR, Tales IV |
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 01:49:33
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quote:
anybody know why a lot of relams fans do not seem to like to deviate from the core setting rules?
Because we love the Realms like they are? 
I guess once you've really gotten into the setting, you don't necessarily think along the lines of "I'll cling to the sourcebooks, and nothing that's not mentioned in there will find its way into my campaign, no sir!" I suppose the more you read - and there's a hell of a lot of stuff out there to be read about the Realms -, the more natural it comes to you to decide what fits and what doesn't. You get a feel for it, and sometimes you can't even explain why you consider this or that inappropriate for your setting – you just (think you) know it. A lot of these decisions depend on personal preferences, of course.
Speaking of personal preferences: With all due respect... steampunk? No, thanks. Not in the Realms. Not on Krynn. Hell, in no high fantasy setting. At least not for me, of course. Steampunk is a genre all by itself, and IMHO it doesn't go too well with high fantasy. Personally, I leave the 'core Realms' untouched, but IMC there is no Maztica, no Kara-Tur, no Zakhara - at least not in their official forms. So I do change a lot, but I'm trying to leave as much of the setting unaltered as possible, because if you change too much - or allow too drastic changes to creep into your campaign -, you're slowly changing the setting itself. I've learned this the hard way, eighteen, nineteen years ago, by changing more and more of the setting of the RPG I was into (which is unknown outside Germany) until it didn't even resemble the original anymore. It was a patchwork of incoherent ideas, a melting pot of influences of a multitude of ideas from novels or other RPGs I liked, a little bit of Melniboné, a little bit of Greyhawk, a little bit of Faerûn and much more. Gave it a good stir, et voilà: neither here nor there. The ideas themselves were all right, they just didn't fit in the least and therefore destroyed the overall feel. (And we're not even talking about genre crossover here.) So major changes have to fit the picture that's been painted of the setting, because something's got to have attracted you to it in the first place, right?
Of course I'm just speaking for myself.
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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Gellion
Learned Scribe
140 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 01:56:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Zorro
quote:
anybody know why a lot of relams fans do not seem to like to deviate from the core setting rules?
Because we love the Realms like they are?
I guess once you've really gotten into the setting, you don't necessarily think along the lines of "I'll cling to the sourcebooks, and nothing that's not mentioned in there will find its way into my campaign, no sir!" I suppose the more you read - and there's a hell of a lot of stuff out there to be read about the Realms -, the more natural it comes to you to decide what fits and what doesn't. You get a feel for it, and sometimes you can't even explain why you consider this or that inappropriate for your setting – you just (think you) know it. A lot of these decisions depend on personal preferences, of course.
Speaking of personal preferences: With all due respect... steampunk? No, thanks. Not in the Realms. Not on Krynn. Hell, in no high fantasy setting. At least not for me, of course. Steampunk is a genre all by itself, and IMHO it doesn't go too well with high fantasy. Personally, I leave the 'core Realms' untouched, but IMC there is no Maztica, no Kara-Tur, no Zakhara - at least not in their official forms. So I do change a lot, but I'm trying to leave as much of the setting unaltered as possible, because if you change too much - or allow too drastic changes to creep into your campaign -, you're slowly changing the setting itself. I've learned this the hard way, eighteen, nineteen years ago, by changing more and more of the setting of the RPG I was into (which is unknown outside Germany) until it didn't even resemble the original anymore. It was a patchwork of incoherent ideas, a melting pot of influences of a multitude of ideas from novels or other RPGs I liked, a little bit of Melniboné, a little bit of Greyhawk, a little bit of Faerûn and much more. Gave it a good stir, et voilà: neither here nor there. The ideas themselves were all right, they just didn't fit in the least and therefore destroyed the overall feel. (And we're not even talking about genre crossover here.) So major changes have to fit the picture that's been painted of the setting, because something's got to have attracted you to it in the first place, right?
Of course I'm just speaking for myself.
Zorro
Yes, but it is more so that I care more about my players fun than what the setting is actually like. I still read FR novels and stuff, but I do not take heed everything with in them.
There is also sort of Steampunk elemnets in Krynn, due to the Gnomes. Even if it is malfunctioning Steampunk at times. |
"Paladine, you see the evil that surrounds me! You have been witness to the calamities that have been the scourge of Krynn... You must see now that this doctrine of balance will not work! I can sweep evil from this land. Destroy the ogre races. Bring the wayward humans into line! Find new homelands far away for the dwarves and the kender and the gnomes, those races not of your creation... I demand that you give me, too, the power to drive away the shadows of evil that darken the land!"- THE REIGN OF ISTAR, Tales IV |
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 01:59:29
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Well, in that case I should mention that everybody who wants a playground where he can experiment with every idea that comes to mind might be well advised to try a generic setting, not a setting so detailed as the FR. But then again: One shouldn't expect too much atmosphere and (fictional) believability from a generic setting. You can't have it all.
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 02:26:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
Well, a lot of the times when someone suggests some other magic than from the weave, some fans seem to go crazy. Another thing that some people seem to dislike is increasing realms technology, and having some Steampunk type stuff. I mean Dl fans wiill say "Do what you want" while realms fans will freak and tell you NO you cant do that.
Another exapmle I can think of is one time there was a Christian player whose DM ran the realms, and he wanted to play a Cleric, but did not want to whorship a deity in the game. Well, a lot of te replies were along the lines of "He sould not be playing in the realms if he does not want to worship a deity"
It just seemed ridiculous that they did not want him to be a Cleric who worshipped an ideal in the realms because the FRCS says that all Clerics have to worship deities.
These are two things, well lesser on the technology part, that I would never change about FR. If you can't keep your RL faith out of the game then you shouldn't be playing a divine caster. FR's gods are real in the setting and all divine magic comes from them, deal with it. :)
And on the magic coming through the Weave, that is another I wouldn't change. That is part of FR and there is reasons why it exists. Shrug. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 18 Nov 2004 02:29:42 |
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Gellion
Learned Scribe
140 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 02:26:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Zorro
Well, in that case I should mention that everybody who wants a playground where he can experiment with every idea that comes to mind might be well advised to try a generic setting, not a setting so detailed as the FR. But then again: One shouldn't expect too much atmosphere and (fictional) believability from a generic setting. You can't have it all.
Zorro
Heh, well one of my players bought the FRCS so I figured I might as well use it. Not to mention none of my players really care about core realms stuff. 
Kuje31: Tha is exactly what I am talking about, would you really compromise a friendship for a fictional setting? I would just let him play a Cleric that worships an ideal. Like I said, my player's enjoyment is more important to me than what is core in a setting. |
"Paladine, you see the evil that surrounds me! You have been witness to the calamities that have been the scourge of Krynn... You must see now that this doctrine of balance will not work! I can sweep evil from this land. Destroy the ogre races. Bring the wayward humans into line! Find new homelands far away for the dwarves and the kender and the gnomes, those races not of your creation... I demand that you give me, too, the power to drive away the shadows of evil that darken the land!"- THE REIGN OF ISTAR, Tales IV |
Edited by - Gellion on 18 Nov 2004 02:30:05 |
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 02:36:29
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Oh dear, is it this serious? *sigh* Well, in that case - although I'm with kuje31 on this - I have to say: Do whatever you want. Doesn't seem to be a roleplaying experience, anyway
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 02:37:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
Kuje31: Tha is exactly what I am talking about, would you really compromise a friendship for a fictional setting? I would just let him play a Cleric that worships an ideal. Like I said, my player's enjoyment is more important to me than what is core in a setting.
Compromise a friendship over a game? If that's the case then you or your players need to grow up. Don't take that the wrong way please.
But yes if I am even running a homebrew setting then divine magic would come from the gods or even in FR and there would be no if and or buts about it. If the PC's didn't like it and they stopped being my "friend" over such a minor thing, then they weren't really my "friends" in the first place.
But er, I guess you got to do what you got to do. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 18 Nov 2004 02:39:56 |
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Gellion
Learned Scribe
140 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 02:44:05
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
Kuje31: Tha is exactly what I am talking about, would you really compromise a friendship for a fictional setting? I would just let him play a Cleric that worships an ideal. Like I said, my player's enjoyment is more important to me than what is core in a setting.
Compromise a friendship over a game? If that's the case then you or your players need to grow up. Don't take that the wrong way please.
But yes if I am even running a homebrew setting then divine magic would come from the gods or even in FR and there would be no if and or buts about it. If the PC's didn't like it and they stopped being my "friend" over such a minor thing, then they weren't really my "friends" in the first place.
But er, I guess you got to do what you got to do.
Heh, it has never happened to me. Hell, one of my players is a devout Christian and he worships a deity, even though he is not a Cleric. I was just saying that it seems a bit ridiculous to not let them play a Cleric that worships an ideal. I really do not see the harm in it, and I am a person who does not like to offend people in any way if I can help it. Which is why I would let him do it.
Anyways, I have also noticed that some realms fans also dislike the idea of Psionics having their own little weave in the users minds. Which I like, but some do not. |
"Paladine, you see the evil that surrounds me! You have been witness to the calamities that have been the scourge of Krynn... You must see now that this doctrine of balance will not work! I can sweep evil from this land. Destroy the ogre races. Bring the wayward humans into line! Find new homelands far away for the dwarves and the kender and the gnomes, those races not of your creation... I demand that you give me, too, the power to drive away the shadows of evil that darken the land!"- THE REIGN OF ISTAR, Tales IV |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 02:57:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
Heh, it has never happened to me. Hell, one of my players is a devout Christian and he worships a deity, even though he is not a Cleric. I was just saying that it seems a bit ridiculous to not let them play a Cleric that worships an ideal. I really do not see the harm in it, and I am a person who does not like to offend people in any way if I can help it. Which is why I would let him do it.
Anyways, I have also noticed that some realms fans also dislike the idea of Psionics having their own little weave in the users minds. Which I like, but some do not.
Doesn't see the difference between an ideal or a deity. Shrug. But as I said yes I would be a hard censor about divine casters and deities even if it was my homebrew game.
I don't care one way or the other about where psionics come from. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 18 Nov 2004 02:58:16 |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 03:06:01
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Gellion, it's because the rules, laws, and whatever, makes Forgotten Realms what it is. You start changing it, and then the things that make FR unique will be gone, and it will end up being just another "fantasy setting".
Technology is often shunned on, because Forgottem Realms focuses on magic. Magic makes Faerun and it's people and societies. If you wanted technology to play a large part of a fantasy setting, switch to Eberron.
quote:
Another exapmle I can think of is one time there was a Christian player whose DM ran the realms, and he wanted to play a Cleric, but did not want to whorship a deity in the game. Well, a lot of te replies were along the lines of "He sould not be playing in the realms if he does not want to worship a deity"
It just seemed ridiculous that they did not want him to be a Cleric who worshipped an ideal in the realms because the FRCS says that all Clerics have to worship deities.
I don't think this is more about the Realms, but basically the player who refused because of religious beliefs. I agree with the others that say he shouldn't be a cleric. If you are that fevorent and devoted to Christianity, that you can't even PRETEND to worship a fictional being, then perhaps you shouldn't even play D&D as well. Put it this way: Let's say you play basketball for a team that has black and red jerseys. You complain and complain about its colours, saying it's ugly and refuse to wear it. Wouldn't the coach and the rest of the players kick you off the team? You can't expect people to bend the rules for you, can you? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 06:11:30
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Gellion, it's because the rules, laws, and whatever, makes Forgotten Realms what it is. You start changing it, and then the things that make FR unique will be gone, and it will end up being just another "fantasy setting".
And that's it for me, as well. The rich flavor of the Realms is what attracted me to the setting, so of course I have no desire to dilute that or to change it.
I can see isolated examples of stuff being imported from other worlds, but I'd keep that to a bare minimum. For example, so far as I know, there's only one kender in the Realms. And I can deal with that. Now, if a whole community of kender showed up and founded New Kendermore, then I'd have a problem with it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 06:54:07
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The flavor and feel of the Realms is dependant on several things. Just like Eberron has Dragonmarks, the Realms needs the Weave. If you take that away from either, you ruin a lot. It's the same with the technological aspect. If you take magitech away from Eberron, it stops working. If you put it, or normal technology, into the Realms, it throws the mixture off. It's the same thing, just in reverse.
If you personally want to advance things, that's one thing. But don't expect to find a lot of people jumping at the idea. Contrary to what TSR wanted, the Realms simply can't be the home-of-everything, because some things are just contrary to the way the Realms "is." |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 09:18:14
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Well met
It appears that the general feeling is that the Realms is so well detailed and heavily fleshed out that there is no need to start tinkering too much. We all know how much Realms fans love to ensure that whatever they are reading is "canon", and deviating from official material generally makes one feel uneasy.
As for applying vast changes, such as technology, then i'd say that you will be changing the world in such a way that it is no longer the Realms, and if that amount of effort is to be put into those changes, then the effort may as well be put into a homebrew campaign. |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Edited by - Alaundo on 18 Nov 2004 09:19:50 |
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Lashan
Learned Scribe
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 15:25:26
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| I've found some people are more die-hard then others. Some people change the Realms in ways that fit their style of play and game world. Or some don't like the "official" changes that happen in the game world. Take the Time of Troubles as one. Some people simply ignore that it happened in their world. The old gods are still alive and there is no Cyric. It makes many DMs and players happy to do this. Other people think that this is unacceptable and a few have even told me that I wasn't even realy playing in the FR, but a home brewed world based off the FR. There are some die-hard fans who never want to change anything. They aren't the majority of players, but they are out there and they are vocal. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 15:34:24
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quote:
Yes, but it is more so that I care more about my players fun than what the setting is actually like. I still read FR novels and stuff, but I do not take heed everything with in them.
You've answered your own question. If you're playing D&D first and foremost, and using elements of the Realms as a backdrop, the setting is mutable -- even down to changing its basic nature, such as adding steampunk elements. If you're discussing the Realms -- which is the focus of this forum, it being a Forgotten Realms forum -- you'll want to discuss the Realms, and what it's like, rather than something else. One of the cornerstones of the Realms is the way it's always been imagined and written as if it's real, not a subservient tool for RPG play. That conceit is the source of much of its richness.
For myself: as a player I prefer to immerse myself in and explore (and contribute to) the DM's setting, rather than demand it be mangled to satisfy a short term whim of what character I want to play. In my experience, players with that open-minded attitude have more fun. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 15:42:00
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You also answered your question in another way.quote:
Well, I have noticed that a lot of realms fans are really strict with the realms.
A Realms fan is someone who actively *likes* the feel of the Realms; when that person plays in a Realms campaign, one of their priorities is to recreate that feel.quote:
Heh, well one of my players bought the FRCS so I figured I might as well use it. Not to mention none of my players really care about core realms stuff.
Your players aren't Realms fans, you're a borderline one* -- no surprise that isn't a priority for you.
* How easily can people get the feel of the Realms from the 2001 FRCS? That's outside my experience. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 18:12:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Lashan
I've found some people are more die-hard then others. Some people change the Realms in ways that fit their style of play and game world. Or some don't like the "official" changes that happen in the game world. Take the Time of Troubles as one. Some people simply ignore that it happened in their world. The old gods are still alive and there is no Cyric. It makes many DMs and players happy to do this. Other people think that this is unacceptable and a few have even told me that I wasn't even realy playing in the FR, but a home brewed world based off the FR. There are some die-hard fans who never want to change anything. They aren't the majority of players, but they are out there and they are vocal.
Then there's the die hard fans, like me, who change only little things or ignore most of the Realms Shaking Events because it screws with the setting and my version of the setting. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 21:26:25
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
Then there's the die hard fans, like me, who change only little things or ignore most of the Realms Shaking Events because it screws with the setting and my version of the setting. :)
Amen to ignoring some RSEs or altering them. Does the fact that I do that make me less strict?  |
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Gellion
Learned Scribe
140 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 21:26:29
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| I actually do like discusiing the realms as they are on this forum. And if I was a player in a realms game, I would play it as it is. But as a DM, I change it so my players can have fun. |
"Paladine, you see the evil that surrounds me! You have been witness to the calamities that have been the scourge of Krynn... You must see now that this doctrine of balance will not work! I can sweep evil from this land. Destroy the ogre races. Bring the wayward humans into line! Find new homelands far away for the dwarves and the kender and the gnomes, those races not of your creation... I demand that you give me, too, the power to drive away the shadows of evil that darken the land!"- THE REIGN OF ISTAR, Tales IV |
Edited by - Gellion on 18 Nov 2004 21:27:50 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2004 : 23:16:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
I actually do like discusiing the realms as they are on this forum. And if I was a player in a realms game, I would play it as it is. But as a DM, I change it so my players can have fun.
I'm not saying don't change it and I hope that isn't how I came across. :) However there are some staples of FR that I will not change and two of them you mentioned already. The divine casters and the Weave. :) But as I said I do change the world to allow my players to have fun but again there are some things that make the Realms, the Realms and I for one will not change those or you don't have the same setting. Shrug |
Edited by - Kuje on 19 Nov 2004 04:05:09 |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2004 : 03:55:57
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This discussion is eerily (well, not really) similar to something I see very, very often in fanfiction communities.
Some people hold this attitude: "It's my fanFICTION, so I can do whatever I want! The whole point is to deviate from the canon!" Then the person would go and say, "I don't like this, and this, and this, so I'll change them all to suit my definition of what's fun."
You end up with, among other things, a Star Wars fanfiction wherein Jedi Padawans are expensive courtesans. Meet the delicate, doll-like Obi-Wan – genetically modified, bred, and trained to be an expert sex toy. Who wears elaborate makeup, uses hairpins, and dresses in silken oriental brocades. In the other corner, we have Qui-Gon, the space pirate with a Scottish accent so thick you can cut it with a spoon.
I ask you: what resemblance, exactly, does this have with Star Wars? Obi-Wan is turned, essentially, into a girl. Qui-Gon is… I don’t know what. But the thing is, this isn’t recognizable. Nothing about it remotely bears a similarity to the source material. These characters aren’t Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon; they are pod people who happen to bear the same names. So what’s the point in labeling this Star Wars? Why not just go off and write your own original fiction?
The same holds true here. If you are attracted to the FR setting as a fan, why exactly do you want to mangle and mutilate it beyond recognition? Why not just use a generic or home-brewed setting where you don't have to adhere to any established rules? |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2004 : 06:21:27
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| I agree with you, Winterfox. If you want to play D&D in the FR setting, than play with it's rules and laws. Changing it to suit your own needs means that you aren't playing in the FR setting anymore, but another fan-created setting suited to the DM and the PCs. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe
USA
418 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2004 : 10:50:29
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| But the question we really have to ask ourselves is: Since their version of the FR deviates from ours, and from the published setting(as all campaigns that use player created characters do), does that mean we are any less FR fans, and need to try to alienate one another? |
Shadows of War: Tales of a Mercenary
My first stab at realms fiction, here at candlekeep. Stop on by and tell me what you think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2004 : 15:32:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
But the question we really have to ask ourselves is: Since their version of the FR deviates from ours, and from the published setting(as all campaigns that use player created characters do), does that mean we are any less FR fans, and need to try to alienate one another?
I doubt anyone is trying to alienate anyone else...
'Tis a simple factoid, really: if you take the jelly away from your sandwich, it's no longer a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.
But, continuing with that analogy, you can use mint jelly, or strawberry jelly, or grape jelly, etc... Ditto for the peanut butter: it can be smooth or crunchy. And then there's the bread... Even if you stick with white bread, there's still various brands.
So you can make minor tweaks without changing things, but making major tweaks gives you a whole new sandwich. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2004 : 16:16:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
But the question we really have to ask ourselves is: Since their version of the FR deviates from ours, and from the published setting(as all campaigns that use player created characters do), does that mean we are any less FR fans, and need to try to alienate one another?
I doubt anyone is trying to alienate anyone else...
'Tis a simple factoid, really: if you take the jelly away from your sandwich, it's no longer a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.
But, continuing with that analogy, you can use mint jelly, or strawberry jelly, or grape jelly, etc... Ditto for the peanut butter: it can be smooth or crunchy. And then there's the bread... Even if you stick with white bread, there's still various brands.
So you can make minor tweaks without changing things, but making major tweaks gives you a whole new sandwich.
So taking the Phaerimm and changing them to a secret society of evil humanoids locked away for eternity by the sharn instead of evil windsocks locked away for eternity by the sharn is making a whole new sandwhich? 'Cause I really hate windsocks. |
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Lashan
Learned Scribe
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2004 : 21:27:26
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To say that making any change to the game world is turning your campaign into a home brewed game world is ridiculous. If any DM every creates anything or anyone that is not from a novel, they are then deviating from the "cannon" material and making it a home brewed game according to that logic. IF someone creates a new tavern in an area that has never had a novel, then that person is stepping outside what is listed as "official canon", which is why the concept of "official" is absurd, really. If you really are a purist to the whole FR world, you can never create a new thought then what is done in the novels or game products. What a boring world that would be.
If someone wants to change a few things in the FR, then it's not that big a deal. If someone wants to drop a new city where one isn't, it isn't (or usually isn't) a big deal. If the DM wants to ignore the ToT, then it isn't that big a deal. If the DM wants to turn the Zhentarium into a group of tinkerer gnomes from DragonLance that are out to create the Walmart of FR, that IS a big deal!!!!
I started reading FR when it was just articles in Dragon magazine. I read and loved the original boxed set. Ever since then, I have viewed each new product as an option. There have been many things that happen to the offical version of the game world that just doesn't jive with (what I consider) the original flavor of the game world. I ignore that wich doesn't feel "right" for me. I still consider myself playing and DMing in the Forgotten Realms and not some home brewed version. |
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Why so strict with the realms?
