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Alparon
Seeker
Turkey
67 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Jan 2005 : 10:46:49
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as we all know in Time of Troubles Torm kills Bane but he is killed himself also...
and at the end he gains his godhood again...
now here is the question:
in Prince of Lies Cyric refers Torm as a Demigod
did Torm's status decrease from a lesser power to a demigod for a consequence of his ressurection by Ao?
or is it just a silly mistake that the Turkish translators made
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I am Cyric, the One and the All, God of Murder and Intrigue, Patron of Deception and Chaos, Prince of Lies, the Dark Sun, rightful Lord of the Dead, Cyric-on-a-stick, and known to some as "the Mad God." I welcome you to The Land of the Dead... |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2005 : 14:10:43
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| If memory serves me correctly, what happened was that Ao felt that Torm had been a good boy in giving Bane the send-off and promoted him as a reward. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2005 : 14:49:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Alparon
in Prince of Lies Cyric refers Torm as a Demigod
did Torm's status decrease from a lesser power to a demigod for a consequence of his ressurection by Ao?
Both Faiths & Avatars and the FRCS have Torm as a Lesser Power. Granted, that rank is, well, lesser, but it is still higher than a demipower. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2005 : 19:21:37
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| It's because when Prince of Lies was written, it was still in like 2E rules. I think the promotion to lesser deity came in 3E. Besides, it was supposed to be a reward, as Ao respected Torm's bravery against Bane. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 04:59:04
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
I think the promotion to lesser deity came in 3E.
If we go with that, why would a 2E product have him listed as lesser? |
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Alparon
Seeker
Turkey
67 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 09:04:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And stuff in novels doesn't always square with the rules...
eeheh... then anyone can write a novel with neglecting the rulez...
that would be me
anyone fancied a novel for the life of Sarevok or other villains? |
I am Cyric, the One and the All, God of Murder and Intrigue, Patron of Deception and Chaos, Prince of Lies, the Dark Sun, rightful Lord of the Dead, Cyric-on-a-stick, and known to some as "the Mad God." I welcome you to The Land of the Dead... |
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 11:08:36
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 , I would. I always prefer the twisted and evil over good or at least find it a lot more interesting for some reason. We have to think of the balance here as well. There are way to many "good" novels out there and to few "bad" Hail evil. |
Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 16:08:47
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| Cyric was insulting Torm. Well, that is how I read it anyway. |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Alparon
Seeker
Turkey
67 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 18:33:15
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bah... the purple metal box deserved it anyway
long live cyric
i wish kelemvor is deposed, the disbelievers doesn't deserve a fair treatment, one day everyone will understand it
really, what does kelemvor do to the ones who are in the land of the dead he doesn't punish them instantly thats for sure |
I am Cyric, the One and the All, God of Murder and Intrigue, Patron of Deception and Chaos, Prince of Lies, the Dark Sun, rightful Lord of the Dead, Cyric-on-a-stick, and known to some as "the Mad God." I welcome you to The Land of the Dead... |
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Lauzoril
Seeker
Finland
71 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 18:42:15
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From what I've read, Torm was still a Demi Power in pre-ToT Faerun. Because Torm's home was still Prime Material Plane when he died against Bane, Ao resurrected Torm because of that and as a reward for slaying Bane, becoming a Lesser Power in the process.
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"Death to the enemies of Bane."
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 18:48:19
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| See I thought Torm was a lesser power both pre and post ToT.Him being ressurrected was his reward by Ao for his fight against Bane.I don't think he was "promoted". |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 22:54:52
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quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
See I thought Torm was a lesser power both pre and post ToT.Him being ressurrected was his reward by Ao for his fight against Bane.I don't think he was "promoted".
In Faiths & Patheons, it's said that Ao promoted him to the status of Lesser Deity for his sacrifice against Bane. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2005 : 23:03:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Alparon
bah... the purple metal box deserved it anyway
long live cyric
i wish kelemvor is deposed, the disbelievers doesn't deserve a fair treatment, one day everyone will understand it
really, what does kelemvor do to the ones who are in the land of the dead he doesn't punish them instantly thats for sure
What do you have against Kelemvor? What's wrong with treating someone fairly, despite their transgressions?
As I recall (I'm not at home at the moment), the False suffer for their actions, while the Faithless simply have a bleak existence. They don't actively suffer, but they certainly don't prosper, either. They simply exist. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 14:02:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
. . . while the Faithless simply have a bleak existence. They don't actively suffer, but they certainly don't prosper, either. They simply exist.
Well, that is what the Wall of the Faithless is for . . .
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Alparon
Seeker
Turkey
67 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2005 : 14:29:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
. . . while the Faithless simply have a bleak existence. They don't actively suffer, but they certainly don't prosper, either. They simply exist.
Well, that is what the Wall of the Faithless is for . . .
my problem with kelemvoreheeh he doesn't deserve to be a god he only has (even less effort) than Gwydion or even Mask...
after reading the "True life of Cyric" to Cyric, he gains his sanity right(i haven't read the Crucible) the thing is Mask also read the Cyrnishad and he lost his sanity also becoming a servant to Cyric. After reading the "True Life" doesn't Mask gain his sanity and his godhood also. I think he deserves a place in the Hades.
also why does a god favor the ones who doesn't even believe that he exist(the problem lies here)????
or maybe this is the very essence of being Lord of the Dead; being Lord of the Deviants/unfaithful
wall of the faithless was the best idea that Myrkull came up with |
I am Cyric, the One and the All, God of Murder and Intrigue, Patron of Deception and Chaos, Prince of Lies, the Dark Sun, rightful Lord of the Dead, Cyric-on-a-stick, and known to some as "the Mad God." I welcome you to The Land of the Dead... |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2005 : 19:12:30
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Given that Torm was a Mortal that ascended to godhood by serving Tyr, himself a "recent" diety in the Realms, I'm sure when he was alive Cyric always heard of Torm referred to as a demigod. I doubt that many common people know the difference betweeen demi/lesser/intermediate/greater powers, and while I am sure that Cyric clearly knows he is more powerful than Torm at the time (especially in his own realm), I don't picture him putting on one of those power meter eye pieces from Dragon Ball Z and saying "you only have 6 divine ranks, while I have 18!" (Don't respond to the numbers, you know what I mean and I didn't want to look it up).
I don't think it was a major issue. Cyric may have been snide with him becuase he did only recently "climb the ladder" plus I have a feeling that many gods who work for greater gods are seen as Demipowers until they truly make a name for themselves.
As to the worthiness of Kelemvor to the Lord of the Dead, much like the Goddess of Magic, it seems that the Lord of the Dead has more job specific responsibilities than a god that is just there to champion one goal or another, and it may not always be a boon to have the title. Kelemvor as much work as Cyric did to recover the Tablets of Fate, and Cyric backstabbed him. I have to wonder that if Kelemvor were still alive when the tablets had been presented that he might have had the job from the get go. |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2005 : 19:47:47
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Prior to the Time of Troubles (and for years afterward), Torm was a demipower of the Realms. It was not until after his realm of Trueheart was created in the outer planes (in 1365, see Faiths and Avatars, page 163) that Torm can be considered a lesser power.
Faiths and Avatars says, "Tyr rewarded his faithful paladin with elevation to lesser power status." Faiths and Pantheons says, "the Maimed Deity elevated him to lesser deity status." Ao did not promote Torm; Tyr did, following the Time of Troubles. |
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Torm in "post-ToT era
