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The Blue Sorceress
Learned Scribe
107 Posts |
 Posted - 10 May 2005 : 19:02:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I just finished reading thru the PrCs... And I have a complaint.
A lot of the PrCs I could easily see being used in a variety of different ways. But this book narrows them down to very specific roles, and further mandates that the character be evil.
Now, I can see some tightening down of the focus, but not as much as they've done. The Vengeance Knight, for example, could be used by a lot more groups than just the Knights of the Shield. And Thayan gladiators could be used in any evil society, I think, instead of being limited to Thay.
House rule 'em. Strip off the organizational structure, rename some abilities, create some of your own lore, and then you're set.
quote:
The alignment thing bugs me, too. I see absolutely no reason to require that Shade Hunters (a kind of FR Indiana Jones) be evil, and there's little in the full write-up to support more than just a tendency to be selfish. A Thayan gladiator could easily be a neutral person/critter just trying to stay alive... And the Justice of Weald and Woe, while not specifically required to be evil, is described as being something only the Eldreth Veluuthra have. But I can easily picture non-EV Justices, and, depending on how it was done, they could even be a champion of the elven people, rather than someone who does elven dirty work.
In my games classes like the hexblade and the warlock, from Complete Warrior and Complete Arcane respectively, are open to any alignment not just any non-good. I don't see why you couldn't do something similar and open up the alignment restrictions for the PrC's you think can accomodate it.
-Blue
-Blue |
Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.
I see your walrus and raise you a carpenter |
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Torkwaret
Seeker
Poland
82 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2005 : 22:52:33
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I've got some more questions about CoR , and if somebody could be so kind and answer them, I'd be just sooo happy 
1. What exactly is Soneillon (I know that she is a succubus, but she is CR 23, how ?? Classes, dice...??)
2. Is the Moaning Crown of Ndulu detailed or just mentioned ??
3. Could you tell me something about two or three of those "ready to play NPC's" ??
4. Does Malkizid get any unique special abilities ?? What about his equipment ??
5. Are any of those magic items that Eltab keeps in his cache detailed ??
Thanks everyone !! |
...Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin... |
Edited by - Torkwaret on 10 May 2005 22:53:09 |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2005 : 00:43:30
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Spoiler Alert!
1. Soneillon is the Queen of Whispers. She is an advanced succubus with levels of both fiend of corruption & fiend of posession. She is very cool. She is Eltab's daughter-in-law. She has been the consort of Ndulu.
2. detailed, and has a really cool history to boot.
3. Lossarwyn the ice lich p.83 is allied with the Eldreth Veluthra.
Danae of the Golden Frond p. 52-53 is a Justice of Weald & Woe & hates Zhents & Harpers. Tagress p.151 is a half-elf werewolf rogue/barbarian that leads a tribe of Malarites who worship Ityak-Ortheel. Oh, and Niss'nley is so very cool! Pretty much all the prestige classes have sample NPC's and a lot of the Champions of Ruin have cohorts or servitors with really interesting write-ups.
4. Yes. He also has a pretty cool sword, but not exactly unique.
5. Why yes, see answer 2 above.  |
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Osieu
Acolyte
26 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2005 : 08:24:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Osieu
I've heard of the feat Initiate of Shar, can you please tell me what it grants? Or are there any other Shadow Weave related feats?
I'm very curious about the two new organization, Cults of the Moon & The Unworthy of Ilsensine. Would you please tell me some details about them?
And what's the prestige class Shade Hunter for? Do thay hunt shades or hunt for shades?
Anybody please? Thank you very much! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2005 : 11:27:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Osieu
quote:
Originally posted by Osieu
I've heard of the feat Initiate of Shar, can you please tell me what it grants? Or are there any other Shadow Weave related feats?
I'm very curious about the two new organization, Cults of the Moon & The Unworthy of Ilsensine. Would you please tell me some details about them?
And what's the prestige class Shade Hunter for? Do thay hunt shades or hunt for shades?
Anybody please? Thank you very much!
Off the top of my head... The Cults of the Moon are evil lycanthrope groups. I've not gotten to the other organization.
The Shade hunter is like an FR version of Indiana Jones. They are hunters of lost Netherese artifacts. They're required to be evil, but I see no reason for that. The name is a bit of a misnomer, too, because they often act in opposition to Shades -- trying to get to the Netherese goodies before the Shades do. |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2005 : 16:16:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Osieu
I'm very curious about the two new organization, Cults of the Moon & The Unworthy of Ilsensine. Would you please tell me some details about them?
The Unworthy of Ilsensine is an interesting group. Oolq (sp?)is a sickly mindflayer who decided to leave the other mindflayers behind and move closer to the surface world. Ooolq charmed a tribe of Grimlocks and a community of shield dwarves. The shield dwarves act as his contacts on the surface world, and the Grimlocks are his bodyguards.
The Cults of the Moon refers to any evil moon cults. I haven't read this section in its entirety yet, but it seems to be various tribes of Malar and cults of Shar. |
War to slay, not to fight long and glorious.
Aermhar of the Tangletrees
Year of the Hooded Falcon
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 01:52:46
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quote:
...Unworthy of Ilsensine...
Just how many illithids are in this group? Do they still have an elder brain amongst their number? If they don't... I'm not going to use the word worship here, because mind flayers can't really be said to worship any Power ...follow the ways of Ilsensine, do they follow any other deity?
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 05:32:11
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
...Unworthy of Ilsensine...
Just how many illithids are in this group? Do they still have an elder brain amongst their number? If they don't... I'm not going to use the word worship here, because mind flayers can't really be said to worship any Power ...follow the ways of Ilsensine, do they follow any other deity?
Just the one, Oooql. He left the mindflayer community because of their "perceived" lack of respect for Ilsensine. |
War to slay, not to fight long and glorious.
Aermhar of the Tangletrees
Year of the Hooded Falcon
Xysma's Gallery
Guide to the Tomes and Tales of the Realms download from Candlekeep
Anthologies and Tales Overviews
Check out my custom action figures, hand-painted miniatures, gaming products, and other stuff on eBay.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 06:12:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
...Unworthy of Ilsensine...
Just how many illithids are in this group? Do they still have an elder brain amongst their number? If they don't... I'm not going to use the word worship here, because mind flayers can't really be said to worship any Power ...follow the ways of Ilsensine, do they follow any other deity?
Just the one, Oooql. He left the mindflayer community because of their "perceived" lack of respect for Ilsensine.
That sounds particularly strange, especially given what we already know about mind flayer beliefs.
The illithids are usually regarded to be a species that holds little "true" faith for deities in general. And studying their collective mindset suggests that they more often than not, see themselves as deserving worship.
They do of course, give heed to the ways of some powers... Ilsensine among them... but it has never been said specifically that the mind flayers "respect" their gods. I'm not sure what to make of this "Unworthy of Ilsensine". It would appear to be an aberration among aberrations...
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 12 May 2005 06:16:57 |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 06:41:20
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I have a question about two of the Elder Eternal Evils: Kezef and the Night Serpent. Does CoR talk about what Kezef is doing now, as its last appearance was in Crucible when it bit off Mask's leg. Is it still roaming free around the planes?
As for Dendar the Night Serpent, is she still growing inside her cave? What about the prophecy about her ending the world? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wil_Upchurch
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 17:41:09
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quote:
Originally posted by The SageThat sounds particularly strange, especially given what we already know about mind flayer beliefs.
The illithids are usually regarded to be a species that holds little "true" faith for deities in general. And studying their collective mindset suggests that they more often than not, see themselves as deserving worship.
They do of course, give heed to the ways of some powers... Ilsensine among them... but it has never been said specifically that the mind flayers "respect" their gods. I'm not sure what to make of this "Unworthy of Ilsensine". It would appear to be an aberration among aberrations...
Indeed, that might be a good way to look at it! :) Mind flayers suffer from quite a few mental...aberrations. That's excellent for me, because I can have them do all sorts of strange things without it seeming off. Who's to say Qooql's in his right mind? Or that his motivation was pure? Or maybe he truly believes in Ilsenine and is irritated that the others don't! |
Wil Upchurch
15th-Level Freelancer
magewebmaster@yahoo.com |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 18:59:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wil_Upchurch
quote:
Originally posted by The SageThat sounds particularly strange, especially given what we already know about mind flayer beliefs.
The illithids are usually regarded to be a species that holds little "true" faith for deities in general. And studying their collective mindset suggests that they more often than not, see themselves as deserving worship.
They do of course, give heed to the ways of some powers... Ilsensine among them... but it has never been said specifically that the mind flayers "respect" their gods. I'm not sure what to make of this "Unworthy of Ilsensine". It would appear to be an aberration among aberrations...
Indeed, that might be a good way to look at it! :) Mind flayers suffer from quite a few mental...aberrations. That's excellent for me, because I can have them do all sorts of strange things without it seeming off. Who's to say Qooql's in his right mind? Or that his motivation was pure? Or maybe he truly believes in Ilsenine and is irritated that the others don't!
I like that there is so much room for interpretation left with Oooql and his "unworthy." It gives me some freedom as a DM to work them into a campaign. I don't know why exactly, but I am fascinated with this sickly mindflayer and his strange clan. |
War to slay, not to fight long and glorious.
Aermhar of the Tangletrees
Year of the Hooded Falcon
Xysma's Gallery
Guide to the Tomes and Tales of the Realms download from Candlekeep
Anthologies and Tales Overviews
Check out my custom action figures, hand-painted miniatures, gaming products, and other stuff on eBay.
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Wil_Upchurch
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2005 : 19:25:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
I like that there is so much room for interpretation left with Oooql and his "unworthy." It gives me some freedom as a DM to work them into a campaign. I don't know why exactly, but I am fascinated with this sickly mindflayer and his strange clan.
Cool. :) I like the UoI too. but that might just be because I like dwarves so much. |
Wil Upchurch
15th-Level Freelancer
magewebmaster@yahoo.com |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2005 : 09:42:41
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Anyone able to post the names of the "3 Dozen sspells" in CoR
How many are conversions from F&A, P&P and DhD? |
I am the King of Rome, and above grammar
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
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Torkwaret
Seeker
Poland
82 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2005 : 17:06:37
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Could someone be so kind and give me the Racial Skills and Skill Points for a Draegloth  (Ability modifiers would be welcome too, although not necessarily)
Thanks !! |
...Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 02:47:12
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Forget about the enhancement... for now at least...
I'm still waiting for my copy of CoR  ...
::The Sage quickly moves back into his dark corner, realising now that the Furry Hamster of Mischief will surely seize the opportunity just provided to remind the Sage that he has a copy of his own::
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 03:54:02
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I went to my hobby store yesterday and no luck.
I'm itching to get my hands on this as I saw little of CoR in development and as such it holds much for me in terms of "wow, nice, cool, interesting"- additions to the Realms.
C'mon WotC, get some copies across the Pacific!
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 05:38:58
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Forget about the enhancement... for now at least...
I'm still waiting for my copy of CoR ...
::The Sage quickly moves back into his dark corner, realising now that the Furry Hamster of Mischief will surely seize the opportunity just provided to remind the Sage that he has a copy of his own::
Sorry, I'm too busy reading my copy of Champions of Ruin -- which I got last week -- to remind you that I've already got it.
Oh... Uh, never mind. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 06:00:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Sorry, I'm too busy reading my copy of Champions of Ruin -- which I got last week -- to remind you that I've already got it.
Oh... Uh, never mind.
"Out of the darkness an arm appears brandishing a Morning Star"
*Whack*
So Sage how do you like your hamster, Leg or Breast? |
I am the King of Rome, and above grammar
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 06:43:53
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Can't I have both  ...
I guess but George and Zandilar might want a piece of barbequed Hamster meat to.... |
I am the King of Rome, and above grammar
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
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Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 14:39:18
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Among the 10 reasons is this one:
quote:
6. What Evil Lurks: Driz'zt, Elminster, the Simbul, and other powerful forces of good walk the length and breadth of Faerūn, but equally powerful manifestations of evil oppose their efforts at every turn. With the background material in this book, you can bring the demon lord Eltab, the legendary lich Aumvor the Undying, and the fallen angel Malkizid into play in your campaign. These embodiments of evil and others like them can become patrons or rivals for an evil group of PCs, or they can serve as challenges for high-level good-aligned characters to overcome. And if your PCs start to get out of line, just put Kezef the Chaos Hound on their trail.
What a (bad) joke. The CRs are way too low for those villains. It seems Richard Baker has mentioned somewhere that this was to make them attractive targets for parties at around 20th level. I completely disagree, especially in the case of the Elder Eternal Evils. IMHO they should have had CRs of at least 30. But Kezef, who bit off Tyr's hand and has Mask on the run, only has a piddly CR of 21. Any epic-level party would kick this mutt's ass and laugh. This dumbing down of FR villains reminds me of Hollywood studios butchering movies to get a PG-13 rating. |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 14:51:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Krafus
Among the 10 reasons is this one:
quote:
6. What Evil Lurks: Driz'zt, Elminster, the Simbul, and other powerful forces of good walk the length and breadth of Faerūn, but equally powerful manifestations of evil oppose their efforts at every turn. With the background material in this book, you can bring the demon lord Eltab, the legendary lich Aumvor the Undying, and the fallen angel Malkizid into play in your campaign. These embodiments of evil and others like them can become patrons or rivals for an evil group of PCs, or they can serve as challenges for high-level good-aligned characters to overcome. And if your PCs start to get out of line, just put Kezef the Chaos Hound on their trail.
What a (bad) joke. The CRs are way too low for those villains. It seems Richard Baker has mentioned somewhere that this was to make them attractive targets for parties at around 20th level. I completely disagree, especially in the case of the Elder Eternal Evils. IMHO they should have had CRs of at least 30. But Kezef, who bit off Tyr's hand and has Mask on the run, only has a piddly CR of 21. Any epic-level party would kick this mutt's ass and laugh. This dumbing down of FR villains reminds me of Hollywood studios butchering movies to get a PG-13 rating.
It strikes me as being similar to the whole Larloch thing. The idea of 3E is that everything has game rules that can be seen by all. To me, Larloch can be statted however you like officially but should any of my players ever attempt to go attack him for whatever crazy reason, they aren't even going to come close. The same applies to the Elder Evils. I don't see the need to stat them out as PCs should not stand a chance against these (except maybe to get away with their lives). If they were to have a CR, just for the sake of it, I would put it well over 30, if not 40. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 18:21:46
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| Now, now... a CR is just a number. Feel free to make it stronger or weaker to suit your campaign. Great Realmslore is not overly concerned with stats but with great flavor text, and Champions of Ruin is quite triumphant on this point. The vivid descriptions, the interesting facts, the wonderful characterization and the fascinating tales told within the covers of the book make this tome a humongous winner for me and an excellent addition to the lore of the Realms! |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 21:17:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Now, now... a CR is just a number. Feel free to make it stronger or weaker to suit your campaign. Great Realmslore is not overly concerned with stats but with great flavor text, and Champions of Ruin is quite triumphant on this point. The vivid descriptions, the interesting facts, the wonderful characterization and the fascinating tales told within the covers of the book make this tome a humongous winner for me and an excellent addition to the lore of the Realms!
Yeah, don't worry, I will do. That wasn't really my point.
I'm still undecided on whether to pick up CoR or not. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2005 : 21:51:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
I'm still undecided on whether to pick up CoR or not.
What factors are making you consider possibly not purchasing the product? |
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Champions of Ruin sourcebook
