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Zzdtri
Acolyte
Croatia
27 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Sep 2004 : 16:27:22
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Hello once again fellow scribes!
In your opinion, how aware is Silvereymoon of current (WOTSQ) events in the Underdark? Personally I think that they wouldn't know much about Silence of Lolth. However they might have some clue about the demise of Ched Nasad.
I would hike to Silverymoon myself and ask around, but my desk is piled with material yet to be researched.
Oh, and another thing, I can't seem to find anything about the town of Winter Edge. As far as I can tell it lies right on top of Menzoberranzan. I looked trough Silver Marches a couple of times but with no luck. Is it just a dot on the map, or is there a story to that place?
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Haley: Hey wait a minute, aren't dark elves evil?
Nale: Oh, my, no. Not since they became a player race. Now the whole species consists of nothing but chaotic good rebels, yearning to throw off the reputation of their evil kin.
Haley: What are the scimitars for?
ZZ'dtri: They're standard issue. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2012 : 20:19:05
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Casts *** Raise Scroll ***
Same Question regarding Winter Edge.
Someone must know why this was arbitrarily placed on the map. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Nov 2012 20:19:43 |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2012 : 22:04:15
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| Winter Edge was mentioned as a staging point for the Citadel Felbarr army when they were coming to assist Mithral Hall in The Two Swords. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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vorpalanvil
Seeker
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2012 : 23:42:02
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| What map are you referring to? |
"I'm a busy man! I got places to go, monsters to kill!" attributed to 1st level bard |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2012 : 02:37:12
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| I would assume he's talking about the big foldout map. On the Silver Marches main section, in between Mithral Hall and the Moonwood, you can see Winter Edge. But there's no mention of it in the text, though. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2012 : 15:25:17
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Thanks BEAST - I had a feeling it may have been from there. Wasn't it supposed to be right on the river, though?
quote:
Originally posted by vorpalanvil
What map are you referring to?
Sorry, it is on the Silver Marches Map - you can see it HERE. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2012 : 21:49:30
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Bob described Winter Edge as being "just across the river" from Mithral Hall.
If you think about it, it would make sense for the town to have easy access to the river for fishing and trade. Why would they have built it at some random spot in the wilderness, when the river was right there? |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2012 : 07:22:09
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Wasn't there a bridge built there as well?
Do we have any sort of name for that bridge? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2012 : 19:47:00
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I believe that there used to be a bridge on the eastern side of Mithral Hall spanning the Surbrin, as the eastern door was once the main entrance to the Hall, with the western door in Keeper's Dale being the secret one. I remember there being mention of fallen stonework on the banks of the Surbrin, indicating a former bridge once upon a time. There was a series of towers on the eastern side of the Hall, in which some Battlehammer dwarves stood lookout, and they may have once been part of the road connecting to this former bridge.
In The Two Swords, the dwarves erected a rope and stone ferry system across the river. This was used to take human refugees out of the Hall, and to get Felbarr dwarves in. But Obould's forces ruined this ferry system in battle.
The next year, in The Orc King, goodly forces built a new bridge there, designed to provide easier access to Winter Edge and the Moonwood. It was simply called "the Surbrin Bridge".  |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
Edited by - BEAST on 14 Nov 2012 19:47:44 |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2012 : 11:41:47
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| Not very good at naming things are they. at least they could have called it Alustriels bridge or something since she did most of the work. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2012 : 16:39:21
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LOL
I am of the mind that Ed (and all designers that followed his naming conventions) hate me. The smaller the settlement/locale, the longer the name.
Mouth O' Gargoyles, anyone? 
Great for flavor... terrible for cartographers.
I'll illustrate the bridge but won't bother naming it. My assumption here is that Winter's Edge is somewhat east of the river, to avoid interfering with the logistics around the river itself (which is a major mustering-point for armies). Thus, the town would be able to support and supply military actions, but not be directly involved in the conflicts. I figure an unnamed minor tributary to the Surbin runs through or around the new town (so it need not be directly on the Surbin, as it is shown).
While I have your attention, BEAST, any idea where Baffenburg is located? I no longer have those books myself. Some idea of direction and days of travel, at least? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 15 Nov 2012 16:40:00 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6662 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2012 : 21:32:23
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I thought it was close by Frankfurterville.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2012 : 02:43:25
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I thought Bob described Baffenburg as being accessed via a sinkhole in the Fell Pass. Remember when Bruenor's caravan nearly fell in, in The Thousand Orcs? When I get a chance, I'll compare that and The Orc King to see if I can pin it down better than that.
EDIT:
TTO, P1:C5 - Bruenor's caravan entered the Fell Pass on the western end and traveled eastward. On the second day, Bruenor pointed out the peaks Skyfire (to the north) and Dreadmont (to the south). The sinkhole/cave-in occurred on the third day. From there, the caravan traveled another 3 days to get out of the pass.
(So the sinkhole access point was roughly halfway through the Fell Pass, from west to east.)
TOK, P2:C9 - Bruenor's adventure party enters the same sinkhole into tunnel system.
TOK, P2:C11 - Take tunnel 100ft to tunnel hub, discover room, conclude originally above-ground structure; Continue down tunnel opposite first tunnel, few hundred feet to cave-in/rock obstruction.
(We're not told which direction the party traveled in from the sinkhole, but at any rate, they only went a few hundred feet from it before they happened upon the city. So the ruins of Baffenburg would appear to be located within a few hundred feet of the center of Fell Pass.)
TOK, P2:C13 - Enter city cavern; Conclude also originally above-ground structure, which must have sunk below ground; Take scrolls & tapestry; Exit back to surface through original sinkhole.
TOK, P3:C20 - Nanfoodle and Regis determine the scrolls' alphabet to be mixture of Dethek and Orcish.
TOK, P4:C23 - Nanfoodle & Regis announce to Bruenor that the town's name was Baffenburg, cooperative dwarf-orc settlement, sunken below ground.
(Because Baffenburg clearly was an above-ground settlement at one point, and then sunk below, it probably couldn't have been to the north or south of Fell Pass, because that would've put the city inside of either mountain range framing the pass. Instead, it sounds like it was built right in the middle of the valley that would eventually become known as Fell Pass, but then sunk at some point.)
This all begs the question: was there ever really a giant dwarf-orc battle in that mountain pass, which gave rise to the name "Fell Pass"; or were the ghosts that have been encountered there really formerly settlers of Baffenburg? Might they be consulted to learn more about the unusual city?
Did dwarves, perhaps, spread a false myth of the would-be "Battle of Fell Pass" in order to scare people away from learning the embarrassing truth of this city founded on dwarf-orc unity?
Or was the Battle of Fell Pass the real, and sad, aftermath of the once beautiful settlement, in which its own settlers did each other in?
Also, why hasn't anyone else ever stumbled upon Baffenburg before? It sunk below ground, but not all that deep. Bruenor's wagon nearly fell in, so why hasn't any other caravan's wagon done so? Are the ghosts, along with the legend of the Battle of Fell Pass, and the mere name "Fell Pass", enough to have kept people away for centuries? Even hardy adventurers and looters? |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
Edited by - BEAST on 17 Nov 2012 06:26:54 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2012 : 16:13:30
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Its right up against the Spine of the Worlds, and despite RAS's many novels set in the region, most adventurers prefer to 'do their thing' in warmer climes, where you only have to worry about monsters killing you.
In other words, very few people adventure that far north. Most are either dwarves (from the few accounts I can recall), or explorers (not traditional adventurers). The dwarves are usually adventuring following legends of their own people, and if all history of Baffenburg were purposely wiped-out, then it would make sense they don't bother nosing around up there.
Plus, you look for dwarven settlements in the mountains, not in the crevices between the mountains, which also makes Baffenburg a bit odd. I would hazard to guess the Orcs originated in the spine, and the Dwarves from the more southern mountains of the Mithral Hall sub-chain (and all of that I had to put back into the 3e-era map I am working on - they lost fell Pass!)
Just realized something - it was higher! It would have at least been in foothills, and that entire region probably collapsed, creating the pass. I wonder if drow were involved? They've used the 'sinking city' tactic before. On the other hand, the Orcs (and perhaps the dwarves') gods may have gotten pissed at them for fraternizing. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Nov 2012 16:14:50 |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2012 : 22:08:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Plus, you look for dwarven settlements in the mountains, not in the crevices between the mountains, which also makes Baffenburg a bit odd. I would hazard to guess the Orcs originated in the spine, and the Dwarves from the more southern mountains of the Mithral Hall sub-chain (and all of that I had to put back into the 3e-era map I am working on - they lost fell Pass!)
The scrolls indicated that the dwarven founders of the surface town were most closely allied with Gauntlgrym.
Then, the orcs came in from all around. Initially, they were led by a single, unifying chieftain. And apparently they were openly welcomed and accepted.
But there was internal strife amongst the orcs, and the chief was murdered.
After a while, though, the orcs became unified once again, and they lived peacefully alongside their fellow dwarf citizens. The affair was said to have lasted successfully for at least 200 years.
quote:
I wonder if drow were involved? They've used the 'sinking city' tactic before. On the other hand, the Orcs (and perhaps the dwarves') gods may have gotten pissed at them for fraternizing.
Nanfoodle learned that the land sink was a sudden, single, catastrophic event. Can drow pull off something of that magnitude?
The scrolls recovered from the Baffenburg library did not say much more, so the citizens of the town may not have survived long enough to unravel the mystery and make record of it.
I lean toward divine punishment. I can't see the Realmsian gods approving of this tomfoolery for long.
Moradin might've been open to it, as he wants his dwarves to be able to get along with the other sentient races of Toril, whenever practical. But I don't think Clageddin would be.
And Gruumsh would be all over this with his spear and spat-out bile! That he continued to have a familiar evil alignment and portfolio from 1E to 4E makes me think that he would never have gone along with it. He probably only went along with Obould's participation in the Silver Marches league because of the hope that Obould could better lull the goodly forces into complacency that way, making them juicier targets for the grandest slaughter in the future. But Baffenburg's overt attempt at interracial peace for peace's sake would be an affront to everything he holds dear.
But does Gruumsh have the ability to pull this sort of thing with the land? |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Silver Marches
