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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 03:28:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
No matter how skillful and wise is Obould successors, I doubt Obould's legacy can last for not even a thousand years. For there may be external forces seeking the downfall of Obould and his kingdom.
Worry not about "external" threats. Instead, worry more about those threats that reside right at your side -- in this instance, the blooded son or powerful underling who thinks he can do a "better" job than Obould ever could.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 01 Jul 2005 03:29:30 |
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RedStrike
Acolyte
32 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 03:49:05
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
No matter how skillful and wise is Obould successors, I doubt Obould's legacy can last for not even a thousand years. For there may be external forces seeking the downfall of Obould and his kingdom.
Worry not about "external" threats. Instead, worry more about those threats that reside right at your side -- in this instance, the blooded son or powerful underling who thinks he can do a "better" job than Obould ever could.
So I guess Obould's sons would attempt to dispose of King Obould and take over as the ruler of the orcs. It would be interesting to see how King Obould would react to this "rebellion" by his own sons or lieutenants. |
We live in a wonderful world that is full of beauty, charm and adventure. There is no end to the adventures that we can have if only we seek them with our eyes open. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 05:38:40
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| Even if Obould's sons did wait until he kacked, nothing guarantees their sons and lieutenants will do the same. That's why I think his kingdom will crumble when he dies. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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StromLancer
Acolyte
41 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 05:54:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even if Obould's sons did wait until he kacked, nothing guarantees their sons and lieutenants will do the same. That's why I think his kingdom will crumble when he dies.
And I am praying for the day when Obould kingdom is finally toppled. |
Lead the war fate commands you to!
...but are you fighting the true enemy? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 06:52:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even if Obould's sons did wait until he kacked, nothing guarantees their sons and lieutenants will do the same. That's why I think his kingdom will crumble when he dies.
Indeed.
His sons *thinking* they could do a better job is one thing, actually making sure they run the Kingdom better than Obould is completely another.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 18:30:31
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quote:
Originally posted by StromLancer
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even if Obould's sons did wait until he kacked, nothing guarantees their sons and lieutenants will do the same. That's why I think his kingdom will crumble when he dies.
And I am praying for the day when Obould kingdom is finally toppled.
Why? |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2005 : 01:29:40
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by StromLancer
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even if Obould's sons did wait until he kacked, nothing guarantees their sons and lieutenants will do the same. That's why I think his kingdom will crumble when he dies.
And I am praying for the day when Obould kingdom is finally toppled.
Why?
I think StromLancer does not really favor orcs that much and furthermore, Obould seemed nearly like an avatar of Gruumsh. Maybe Correllon should come as an avatar and compete with Obould. Iam sure StromLancer agree with me. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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StromLancer
Acolyte
41 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2005 : 01:30:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by StromLancer
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even if Obould's sons did wait until he kacked, nothing guarantees their sons and lieutenants will do the same. That's why I think his kingdom will crumble when he dies.
And I am praying for the day when Obould kingdom is finally toppled.
Why?
I think StromLancer does not really favor orcs that much and furthermore, Obould seemed nearly like an avatar of Gruumsh. Maybe Correllon should come as an avatar and compete with Obould. Iam sure StromLancer agree with me.
Yes, Shadovar, I do agree with you. |
Lead the war fate commands you to!
...but are you fighting the true enemy? |
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Arlenion
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2005 : 16:32:13
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| I don't know whether I would like an orc kingdom or not. Maybe if the orcs actually have a kingdom that lasts a few generations then they might actually become somewhat civilized. Not like Myth Drannor or the Silver Marches, but they might not be barbarians any more. Once they have a kingdom of their own to defend they probably will be willing to help protect against other hordes of monsters from the North, after all they have a nation to protect as well. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2005 : 12:22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Arlenion
I don't know whether I would like an orc kingdom or not. Maybe if the orcs actually have a kingdom that lasts a few generations then they might actually become somewhat civilized. Not like Myth Drannor or the Silver Marches, but they might not be barbarians any more. Once they have a kingdom of their own to defend they probably will be willing to help protect against other hordes of monsters from the North, after all they have a nation to protect as well.
I doubt the orcs would bother about protecting other nations for they may seek some gains in allying with the enemy that is threatening their neighbours and themselves like gaining some portions of their neighbours' land. Also, orcs tend to a bit prone to fighting among themselves for petty reasons, even King Obould rule over the orcs can't last forever, much less a generation. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2005 : 17:11:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadovar
quote:
Originally posted by Arlenion
I don't know whether I would like an orc kingdom or not. Maybe if the orcs actually have a kingdom that lasts a few generations then they might actually become somewhat civilized. Not like Myth Drannor or the Silver Marches, but they might not be barbarians any more. Once they have a kingdom of their own to defend they probably will be willing to help protect against other hordes of monsters from the North, after all they have a nation to protect as well.
I doubt the orcs would bother about protecting other nations for they may seek some gains in allying with the enemy that is threatening their neighbours and themselves like gaining some portions of their neighbours' land. Also, orcs tend to a bit prone to fighting among themselves for petty reasons, even King Obould rule over the orcs can't last forever, much less a generation.
He just might find a succesor as smart and powerful as himself. And about his grip on the throne not holding, his subjects regard him as Gruumsh incarnate. They are not going to disobey him or rebel against him. Ever. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2005 : 17:54:53
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
And about his grip on the throne not holding, his subjects regard him as Gruumsh incarnate. They are not going to disobey him or rebel against him. Ever.
Sure they would -- as soon as they had serious reason to doubt that he was Gruumsh incarnate. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 02:28:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
And about his grip on the throne not holding, his subjects regard him as Gruumsh incarnate. They are not going to disobey him or rebel against him. Ever.
Sure they would -- as soon as they had serious reason to doubt that he was Gruumsh incarnate.
All it needs is a series of events that brings disgrace and dishonor to King Obould then will his Gruumsh incarnate image be erased from the orcs' eyes. If there are folk that can engineer such events, drow would be first on the list.
By the way, if King Obould is regarded as Gruumsh incarnate, then surely Correllon would have someone as his incarnate to kind of "balance" the situation, as Correllon and Gruumsh are determined foes. If there is a incarnate of Gruumsh in the Realms, that would be no good news for the elves and Correllon. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 03:11:22
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Actually I wonder what you all think about this.
I think King Obould is UNDERPOWERED.
I do not like him being a 9th level character. I set most of the leaders of the BIG realms at very high level.
I have Obould as an epic level character. He is 22nd level with the rest of the levels being fighter.
Is this to high?
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 09:18:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Actually I wonder what you all think about this.
I think King Obould is UNDERPOWERED.
I do not like him being a 9th level character. I set most of the leaders of the BIG realms at very high level.
I have Obould as an epic level character. He is 22nd level with the rest of the levels being fighter.
Is this to high?
I think it fits. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2005 : 07:11:28
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To bring all of this back around, now that Obould has a kingdom, he will suffer the fate of all kingdoms, including those of the duergar, the threat of war. Now, what he does with that is what will determine if he lasts or not.
Duergar broke away from enslavement and forged their own communities. Now they have to be vigilant against invasion. Same with Obould. With larger, more defined borders, the ability to protect his territory is weakened. Even if more orcs flock to his banner, he will have to start looking to form an organized army. Some may argue that he already has one, but most of the orcs in his army will now want to take advantage of being free of their dark holes to raid, plunder, enslave, and any other evil entertainments they can find. It will be up to the shield dwarves of the North to keep the armies of Obould in check. |
"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2005 : 11:02:19
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quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
To bring all of this back around, now that Obould has a kingdom, he will suffer the fate of all kingdoms, including those of the duergar, the threat of war. Now, what he does with that is what will determine if he lasts or not.
Duergar broke away from enslavement and forged their own communities. Now they have to be vigilant against invasion. Same with Obould. With larger, more defined borders, the ability to protect his territory is weakened. Even if more orcs flock to his banner, he will have to start looking to form an organized army. Some may argue that he already has one, but most of the orcs in his army will now want to take advantage of being free of their dark holes to raid, plunder, enslave, and any other evil entertainments they can find. It will be up to the shield dwarves of the North to keep the armies of Obould in check.
I think rather a combined joint alliance of gold, shield dwarves as well as any human armies from the North(say from Silverymoon) would be in a stronger position to suppress the armies of Obould. Furthermore, Obould's armies can be broken into demoralized orcs if they are hit hard and often enough with high casualties on the orcs side. Also, most importantly is to disrupt any possible alliance(if there is in the future) between Obould and the frost giants if Obould's legions are to be properly contained or vanquished. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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VonRaventheDaring
Learned Scribe
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2006 : 15:18:43
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| Well it can't be a mistake that the elves are returing now to the realms at large. I think Corellon has a hand in this although the elven gods as a general rule have no desire to interfer in the lives of their followers. They prefer to have their worshipers make their own destanies, mistakes, and try to only help when they need to. Least thats what i remeber reading from a (forgive me) novel. I know its not official cannon, but it does give us insight into the elven perspecitve of how things are to be handled. |
"Develop the latent abilities within you for that is your power alone. Psionics is the ultimate art of magic and you are its practitioner. Through lifelong dedication, strive to unite your will with your physical form to become one. Only through the unrestrained union of one’s mind and body can the magic of psionics truly be mastered. Throw off the yoke of any who would impose tyranny upon you. Likewise, do not ever force another to submit to your will. Free your mind, free yourself and you have only just begun the path to true psionic mastery. Free others, open their minds to the Invisible Art, and you will show them way to Auppenser."
---Dogma of the Church of Auppenser |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2006 : 21:50:14
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Darn! I read "the Two Swords" a few months ago, and completely forgot the end result of the dwarf/elf/human army vs. Obould's horde...
Where DO things stand at this point? have they just erected defensive positions in Keeper's Dale, waiting for the next wave? or did Obould retreat to the mountains to build castles there? |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 17:54:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Actually I wonder what you all think about this.
I think King Obould is UNDERPOWERED.
I do not like him being a 9th level character. I set most of the leaders of the BIG realms at very high level.
I have Obould as an epic level character. He is 22nd level with the rest of the levels being fighter.
Is this to high?
I wouldn't set him that high were I to use him, but letting him have all five levels of the Orc Warlord PrC seems almost a necessity. |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 18:01:35
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| BTW, am I wrong in assuming that while the more traditional duergar, who worship Ladguer, are more stay-at-home types, it's the followers of Deep Duerra who are encouraging the current attitude of "pillage and conquer!" among the duergar, hence the Shanatar War? |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 19:21:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
BTW, am I wrong in assuming that while the more traditional duergar, who worship Ladguer, are more stay-at-home types, it's the followers of Deep Duerra who are encouraging the current attitude of "pillage and conquer!" among the duergar, hence the Shanatar War?
I wouldn't say "traditional"...after all it was the "traditional" Ladguer duergar that besieged Menzoberranzan...I think a "traditional" gray dwarf will "pillage and conquer" when they think they will win...Ladguer is Moradin's brother and an old god who (even though LE) takes care of his people the best way eh can...not with reckless offensives...
Duerra on the other hand is a very young and impulsive goddess, thus her worshippers would be reckless too...
and I think the reason why the Thunder Blessing wasn't granted to the duegar and derro is that their patron gods are not belong to the Moradinsim (sp?), the pantheon of the dwarves
but then again I don't remember ever reading that the Duegar or the Derro had the low birth-rate as the surface dwarves did (logically neithor did the wild and arctic dwarves too)
and the fact that the Army of Gold is invadign a region now controled by their heriditary enemies...I don't think they will have it that easy  |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2006 : 23:23:38
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| Concerning warfare between gray and gold/shield dwarves: one Big advantage the duergar have is their willingness to look for allies in places other dwarves wouldn't even consider. After all, the Army of Steel has made alliance with a beholder hive, who's members are now accompanying them into battle against the Gold Dwarf crusaders. That's a lot of firepower right there! |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2007 : 18:38:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
I wonder what would happen if some demon prince actually managed to unite the Tanar`ri. How would the Baatezu handle the combined fury of the Abyss? It`s true what you say about orcs and goblins lacking organisatory talents, but it seems as if they are remeding that lack(King Obould Many-arrows)
It's true that King Obould isn't the same as the rest of his kin... But that doesn't mean the orcs are becoming more organized anywhere else. He's one orc. An influential orc, certainly, but still just one orc. Once he dies, his kingdom will likely crumble.
He's simply a fluke among his race.
An Orcish Shaka Zulu or Genghis Khan? Hmm, if he has an intelligent enough son (or worse, a few of them who can cooperate) the Silver Marches might find themselves with a big problem on their hands. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2007 : 02:15:40
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| I'm glad Salvatore did not kill him off in the Hunter's Blades series... that would have been cheap. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2007 : 12:16:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
I wonder what would happen if some demon prince actually managed to unite the Tanar`ri. How would the Baatezu handle the combined fury of the Abyss? It`s true what you say about orcs and goblins lacking organisatory talents, but it seems as if they are remeding that lack(King Obould Many-arrows)
It's true that King Obould isn't the same as the rest of his kin... But that doesn't mean the orcs are becoming more organized anywhere else. He's one orc. An influential orc, certainly, but still just one orc. Once he dies, his kingdom will likely crumble.
He's simply a fluke among his race.
An Orcish Shaka Zulu or Genghis Khan? Hmm, if he has an intelligent enough son (or worse, a few of them who can cooperate) the Silver Marches might find themselves with a big problem on their hands.
I think these issues will be adressed in the upcoming Salvatore novel, The Orc King. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2007 : 13:06:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
Concerning warfare between gray and gold/shield dwarves: one Big advantage the duergar have is their willingness to look for allies in places other dwarves wouldn't even consider. After all, the Army of Steel has made alliance with a beholder hive, who's members are now accompanying them into battle against the Gold Dwarf crusaders. That's a lot of firepower right there!
I just read the topic - Ardashir, do you have more information about the mentioned "firepower" - I didn't heard about this update in the war. Would this change the betting quote about the winner 
Does anybody knows if there will be a story about this gold dwarf crusade anytime soon? |
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Matthus
Senior Scribe
Germany
393 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2007 : 13:10:53
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
I think these issues will be adressed in the upcoming Salvatore novel, The Orc King.
khorne is there already a time release for the softcover version of the book - I'm sure it will be discussed before I can read it  |
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reddfox321
Acolyte
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2007 : 05:46:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Actually I wonder what you all think about this.
I think King Obould is UNDERPOWERED.
I do not like him being a 9th level character. I set most of the leaders of the BIG realms at very high level.
I have Obould as an epic level character. He is 22nd level with the rest of the levels being fighter.
Is this to high?
Doesn't he have permanent bull's strength and cat's grace casted upon him? Thats the impression I got from the books. |
Moon Elf Ranger |
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Gold dwarves V.S. Duergar
