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danyew
Acolyte
Singapore
3 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Aug 2004 : 08:15:18
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According to the underdark book,the gold dwarves have expirenced a baby boom due to the thunder blessings and are moving north(in the underdark).It also appears to be that they have formed an army(the Army of Gold)which happens to clash with the Duergar(the Army of Steel).Just want to know if anyone has heard of anything about this, I did like to know who won. Anyway,I'm placing my bet on the Army of Gold.
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Prince Arien Silverleaf |
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Wood Elf Ranger
Senior Scribe
USA
627 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2004 : 20:35:07
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| I believe the war is still going on... but I agree with you as long as nothing huge goes wrong the Army of Gold should be victorious I would think. |
~Lee N.
"Breaktime yes?!.. Yes?.. Maybe?.. Noo, baaack to work.." -Grovel the Goblin from NWN: HotU |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2004 : 05:25:52
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| IRL expanding peoples are always a force to be reckoned with. Especially when they are armed and eager for battle. The duergar do not have the benefits of the thunder blessing, so its just a matter of time before the duergar pack up and move out, or find some really powerful allies to hold off the Army of Gold. |
"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
Edited by - hammer of Moradin on 19 Aug 2004 22:29:37 |
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Senbar Flay
Learned Scribe
185 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2004 : 00:15:43
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| I would go with the Army of gold too but you never know I meant some cataclysm could affect the army like another race attaking them. Or the duergar allyinh with another city another dueregar since this batrel will have a lesser impact on the gray dwarf race because their numbers are lessned having not recieved benefeits from the Thunder Blessing. |
Imagination is more important than knowledge for knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world.- Albert Einstein |
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Lord Donnachie
Acolyte
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2005 : 17:49:39
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| seems like a really good plot for an upcoming campaign, let your players decide! |
Don’t gain the world and lose your soul,
Wisdom is better than silver and gold
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Ty
Learned Scribe
USA
168 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2005 : 22:24:39
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Check the new Lost Empires of Faerun in the areas covering Shanatar. The war is apparently still going on but no real specific information is provided.
I concur however, that the Goldies have the advantage in this one, provided they don't get a case of the stupids. Larger population, broad clerical focus, and wizards now. Yes, the Duerger have psionics, but I think that unless some quick alliances are made by the Grays, you'll see them get slowly pushed aside.
At least, that's what's going to happen in my campaign if it becomes relevant.  |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2005 : 01:34:43
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| Wasn't there (at one point) a movement in the Duergar clans to try and mend their ways in hopes of currying favour with Moradin to also benefit from the Thunder Blessing? |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2005 : 18:53:35
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| The Duergar are not happy that they have not benefited from the Blessing, however what they do about it is left open. I believe a rift will occur within the Duergar communities, as many other now playable races have seen (Drow) creating viable good player character options for those folks who would like to play reformed evil race characters. There will still be evil gray dwarves out there to fight against, and maybe they will get some kind of boon from the dark dwarven gods to boost their birth numbers. |
"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2005 : 15:43:09
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I read on the Wotc board about a duergar priest of Moradin who is trying to find a way for his people to gain the thunder blessing.
Ps. Is it only Gold dwarves who benefit from the blessing? Don`t the Shield Dwarves get it too? |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2005 : 16:15:58
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
I read on the Wotc board about a duergar priest of Moradin who is trying to find a way for his people to gain the thunder blessing.
Ps. Is it only Gold dwarves who benefit from the blessing? Don`t the Shield Dwarves get it too?
That's the impression I got from the FRCS that dwarves, regardless of subrace, were touched by the Thunder Blessing. |
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hammer of Moradin
Senior Scribe
USA
758 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2005 : 18:07:37
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| All dwarves except the Duergar experienced the Thunder Blessing. All the sub-races worship Moradin in some capacity, except the Duergar, so he blessed them. That is probably why there is a Duergar priest of Moradin pushing for his people to receive the Blessing, since he is a follower of the All-Father and feels forgotten maybe. I guess Moradin just can't turn it on for a few of them. |
"Hurling himself upon his enemies, he terrified them with slaughter!"
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Candlekeep proverb: If a thing is said often enough, fools aplenty will believe it to be true. |
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Lord Donnachie
Acolyte
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2005 : 18:03:39
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quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
All dwarves except the Duergar experienced the Thunder Blessing. All the sub-races worship Moradin in some capacity, except the Duergar, so he blessed them. That is probably why there is a Duergar priest of Moradin pushing for his people to receive the Blessing, since he is a follower of the All-Father and feels forgotten maybe. I guess Moradin just can't turn it on for a few of them.
It would be interesting to see how the underdark (Grackslethetsp!) would change if the duergar recieved the TB (for whatever reason)? Maybe all those stinkin drow would have to kiss dwarven butt for a change.
I'd also like to see novels revolving around the TB and maybe the war between the golds& duergar....
Last thought, what would stop another diety from issuing their own TB? Goblin or orc god maybe?
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Don’t gain the world and lose your soul,
Wisdom is better than silver and gold
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Smyther
Learned Scribe
Canada
121 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2005 : 23:17:09
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quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
All dwarves except the Duergar experienced the Thunder Blessing. All the sub-races worship Moradin in some capacity, except the Duergar, so he blessed them. That is probably why there is a Duergar priest of Moradin pushing for his people to receive the Blessing, since he is a follower of the All-Father and feels forgotten maybe. I guess Moradin just can't turn it on for a few of them.
Does that include the Derro? |
So sayeth the Smyther, the Dark Bard of Amn. |
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Lord Donnachie
Acolyte
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2005 : 00:06:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Smyther
quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
All dwarves except the Duergar experienced the Thunder Blessing. All the sub-races worship Moradin in some capacity, except the Duergar, so he blessed them. That is probably why there is a Duergar priest of Moradin pushing for his people to receive the Blessing, since he is a follower of the All-Father and feels forgotten maybe. I guess Moradin just can't turn it on for a few of them.
Does that include the Derro?
No, I think Derro isn't listed as a dwarf subtype but a monsterous humanoid? |
Don’t gain the world and lose your soul,
Wisdom is better than silver and gold
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2005 : 22:15:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Donnachie
quote:
Originally posted by hammer of Moradin
All dwarves except the Duergar experienced the Thunder Blessing. All the sub-races worship Moradin in some capacity, except the Duergar, so he blessed them. That is probably why there is a Duergar priest of Moradin pushing for his people to receive the Blessing, since he is a follower of the All-Father and feels forgotten maybe. I guess Moradin just can't turn it on for a few of them.
It would be interesting to see how the underdark (Grackslethetsp!) would change if the duergar recieved the TB (for whatever reason)? Maybe all those stinkin drow would have to kiss dwarven butt for a change.
I'd also like to see novels revolving around the TB and maybe the war between the golds& duergar....
Last thought, what would stop another diety from issuing their own TB? Goblin or orc god maybe?
The goblins and orcs already breed as quickly as physically possible....... |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2005 : 20:25:35
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| Just wanted to point out that many times in history, the stronger/more numerous army has been beaten, crippled, or just plain stonewalled by a smaller force. I can imagine the possibilities for guerilla warfare are extremely high, as are the chances to nuetralize the numbers advantage. I agree that TB gives the Gold dwarves a logistical advantage, but it could be something they elect to abandon in the face of mounting casualties... How eager would they be to squander the Blessing by sending their sons to die in battle. (Not to even mention that it takes 50 or so years for a newborn just to come to maturity.) |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2005 : 21:25:06
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Well the increased population calls for inceased living space. So expansion is indicated, such expansion would be reduced based on loses.
As for reaching maturity in 50 years, that has been a factor for generations and culture plans for such things (or at least should). |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2005 : 21:30:39
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| Somehow I doubt they counted on a divinely ordained baby-boom occuring though. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2005 : 21:37:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
Somehow I doubt they counted on a divinely ordained baby-boom occuring though.
Yes there is this, however having children quicker then expected still would default to time to get more space. So the fct that 50 Drawves are having children instead of one (or what ever increased ratio is) this season would be a surprise. They still know that they will need space for their children. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2005 : 22:27:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Forge
Just wanted to point out that many times in history, the stronger/more numerous army has been beaten, crippled, or just plain stonewalled by a smaller force. I can imagine the possibilities for guerilla warfare are extremely high, as are the chances to nuetralize the numbers advantage. I agree that TB gives the Gold dwarves a logistical advantage, but it could be something they elect to abandon in the face of mounting casualties... How eager would they be to squander the Blessing by sending their sons to die in battle. (Not to even mention that it takes 50 or so years for a newborn just to come to maturity.)
While this is true, it's usually the more well-trained and -equipped army that does the holding off. Orcs and goblins are neither. They've had the advantage of numbers for centuries, and while they've certainly driven dwarves out of their homes, they've not had any decisive victories.
In a century or two, we're going to see the re-founding of fallen dwarven kingdoms. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 03:09:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Forge
Just wanted to point out that many times in history, the stronger/more numerous army has been beaten, crippled, or just plain stonewalled by a smaller force. I can imagine the possibilities for guerilla warfare are extremely high, as are the chances to nuetralize the numbers advantage. I agree that TB gives the Gold dwarves a logistical advantage, but it could be something they elect to abandon in the face of mounting casualties... How eager would they be to squander the Blessing by sending their sons to die in battle. (Not to even mention that it takes 50 or so years for a newborn just to come to maturity.)
While this is true, it's usually the more well-trained and -equipped army that does the holding off.
That, and a well ordered and well respected chain of command. Weapons and training will only get your army so far, but if the troops under your command don't respect your position as commander, or don't put much faith in your orders, then the weapons and training mean little.
quote:
Orcs and goblins are neither. They've had the advantage of numbers for centuries, and while they've certainly driven dwarves out of their homes, they've not had any decisive victories.
I like to think of the tanar'ri in these situations. Like orcs and goblins, they have strength of numbers in their wars against the baatezu, but without decisive decision making and solid leadership, they actually cannot consolidate the great strength into an effective fighting force. So while they have great power, they do not use it in a way that is conductive to overall victory.
It is the same with orcs and goblins.
quote:
In a century or two, we're going to see the re-founding of fallen dwarven kingdoms.
Indeed. And we'll also see the rising of new orc and goblin hordes to bring the re-established dwarven realms down again. 'Tis an endless cycle...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 13:43:53
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
[quote]Originally posted by Forge
[quote]Orcs and goblins are neither. They've had the advantage of numbers for centuries, and while they've certainly driven dwarves out of their homes, they've not had any decisive victories.
I like to think of the tanar'ri in these situations. Like orcs and goblins, they have strength of numbers in their wars against the baatezu, but without decisive decision making and solid leadership, they actually cannot consolidate the great strength into an effective fighting force. So while they have great power, they do not use it in a way that is conductive to overall victory.
I wonder what would happen if some demon prince actually managed to unite the Tanar`ri. How would the Baatezu handle the combined fury of the Abyss? It`s true what you say about orcs and goblins lacking organisatory talents, but it seems as if they are remeding that lack(King Obould Many-arrows) |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 14:13:59
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
I wonder what would happen if some demon prince actually managed to unite the Tanar`ri. How would the Baatezu handle the combined fury of the Abyss? It`s true what you say about orcs and goblins lacking organisatory talents, but it seems as if they are remeding that lack(King Obould Many-arrows)
It would simply never happen. By their very natures, the tanar'ri cannot function in the same manner as the baatezu when it comes to organisation and training. Sure, they may come under the influence of a powerful demon prince for a time, but that same demon prince will find himself fighting a constant battle to maintain order amongst the tanar'ri horde as well as keeping them focused on their overall objectives.
Remember, tanar'ri are well known for turning upon each over and battling to the death just as much as they would against the baatezu. In other words, they probably would not last long together in a formation against their enemy, following the directions of a demon prince, before one or two demons started fighting each other and throwing the entire horde into disarray.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 28 Jun 2005 14:17:22 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 17:58:39
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
I wonder what would happen if some demon prince actually managed to unite the Tanar`ri. How would the Baatezu handle the combined fury of the Abyss? It`s true what you say about orcs and goblins lacking organisatory talents, but it seems as if they are remeding that lack(King Obould Many-arrows)
It's true that King Obould isn't the same as the rest of his kin... But that doesn't mean the orcs are becoming more organized anywhere else. He's one orc. An influential orc, certainly, but still just one orc. Once he dies, his kingdom will likely crumble.
He's simply a fluke among his race. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 18:05:49
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| Where is the fluke template anyway? What can it be apllied to? (sorry, couldn't resist) |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 21:10:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Once he dies, his kingdom will likely crumble.
I have a feeling that the kingdom of dark arrows is here to stay. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2005 : 21:18:32
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| Considering that according to his entry in the FRCS, Obould's dream is to establish a kingdom large enough that his sons won't have to fight over it once he dies - meaning that they'd all get a chunk each of daddy's lands - that'd make you more optimistic than the Big Orc himself. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2005 : 11:13:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
Considering that according to his entry in the FRCS, Obould's dream is to establish a kingdom large enough that his sons won't have to fight over it once he dies - meaning that they'd all get a chunk each of daddy's lands - that'd make you more optimistic than the Big Orc himself.
There`s no telling what might happen. Wait a minute.......maybe this blessing from gruumsh that Obould recieved doesn`t only make him stronger, smarter and faster, but it maybe also increases his lifespan. Then he would be able to solidify the kingdom so well that it would not break up when he died.
Ps. As some scribes have already mentioned WOTC seems to suffer from chronic chosenmania. What do you think the odds are that Obould becomes a REAL chosen of Gruumsh? |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2005 : 17:54:44
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
Considering that according to his entry in the FRCS, Obould's dream is to establish a kingdom large enough that his sons won't have to fight over it once he dies - meaning that they'd all get a chunk each of daddy's lands - that'd make you more optimistic than the Big Orc himself.
There`s no telling what might happen. Wait a minute.......maybe this blessing from gruumsh that Obould recieved doesn`t only make him stronger, smarter and faster, but it maybe also increases his lifespan. Then he would be able to solidify the kingdom so well that it would not break up when he died.
Ps. As some scribes have already mentioned WOTC seems to suffer from chronic chosenmania. What do you think the odds are that Obould becomes a REAL chosen of Gruumsh?
What matters is his heirs. If he dies, either tomorrow or in 200 years, the kingdom passes to his heirs. Unless they are as intelligent and as skillfull as Obould, the kingdom would come crashing down within months. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2005 : 18:51:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
Considering that according to his entry in the FRCS, Obould's dream is to establish a kingdom large enough that his sons won't have to fight over it once he dies - meaning that they'd all get a chunk each of daddy's lands - that'd make you more optimistic than the Big Orc himself.
There`s no telling what might happen. Wait a minute.......maybe this blessing from gruumsh that Obould recieved doesn`t only make him stronger, smarter and faster, but it maybe also increases his lifespan. Then he would be able to solidify the kingdom so well that it would not break up when he died.
Ps. As some scribes have already mentioned WOTC seems to suffer from chronic chosenmania. What do you think the odds are that Obould becomes a REAL chosen of Gruumsh?
What matters is his heirs. If he dies, either tomorrow or in 200 years, the kingdom passes to his heirs. Unless they are as intelligent and as skillfull as Obould, the kingdom would come crashing down within months.
Then I can only pray that he manages to educate his remainings sons better than the oldest one........ |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2005 : 01:25:22
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
Considering that according to his entry in the FRCS, Obould's dream is to establish a kingdom large enough that his sons won't have to fight over it once he dies - meaning that they'd all get a chunk each of daddy's lands - that'd make you more optimistic than the Big Orc himself.
There`s no telling what might happen. Wait a minute.......maybe this blessing from gruumsh that Obould recieved doesn`t only make him stronger, smarter and faster, but it maybe also increases his lifespan. Then he would be able to solidify the kingdom so well that it would not break up when he died.
Ps. As some scribes have already mentioned WOTC seems to suffer from chronic chosenmania. What do you think the odds are that Obould becomes a REAL chosen of Gruumsh?
What matters is his heirs. If he dies, either tomorrow or in 200 years, the kingdom passes to his heirs. Unless they are as intelligent and as skillfull as Obould, the kingdom would come crashing down within months.
Then I can only pray that he manages to educate his remainings sons better than the oldest one........
No matter how skillful and wise is Obould successors, I doubt Obould's legacy can last for not even a thousand years. For there may be external forces seeking the downfall of Obould and his kingdom. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Gold dwarves V.S. Duergar
