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Sorenna_Melruth
Acolyte
24 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 04:55:29
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*giggles*
Ummm yeah, well I suppose I would be very unhappy and yell at my allies to if I had married an Annis weither it was just for show or not. In reguards to the Sceptered One.
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History is written by those who survive such terriable times,and every person is a hero, and every person is a villan it depends on who's telling the tale. |
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elven_songstress
Learned Scribe
126 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 05:24:41
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yes things get strange when you consort with strange things, though they haven't mention it in the WOSQ his marriage that I noticed.
As for The Last Mythal series, WOW!
I am impressed with it and we get to see someone who we knew such little about. Fflar, I'd personally like to know more about him. Other then he taught in Semberholme and could kick demon butt and take names, without the need to chew bubble gum.
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We need to be reminded sometimes that a sunrise lasts but a few minutes,but its beauty can burnin our hearts eternally." |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 05:42:54
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quote:
Originally posted by elven_songstress
Other then he taught in Semberholme and could kick demon butt and take names, without the need to chew bubble gum.
 That humorous tag line does fit him. |
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elven_songstress
Learned Scribe
126 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 06:20:59
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Thank you. ^_^
I am concidering running a PBEM or PBP game and I wanted to find all the information I could gather on him. You know I don't recall if they said he was a sun elf or a moon elf, time to go back and reread, but this is what I get for posting early in the morning.
And yes, I do think the line fits him as well. |
We need to be reminded sometimes that a sunrise lasts but a few minutes,but its beauty can burnin our hearts eternally." |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 20:47:20
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Sorenna_Melruth
Off topic Demonic Sun elves are better then the uppity stuck up Sun elves I am use to. *lol* But thats just my darker side talking :P
Sun elves aren't uppity. They are very patient with the childish moon elves.
I don't recall Tintagel's father convincing Zaor to step down using his superior logic a la Family guy...nor was Mr. Nimesin particularly reasonable in his crusade...Heck, a lot of times, Sun Elves are looking down their noses, sneering at Gray Elves...albeit, considering what we've had to work with... |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 20:51:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
I don't recall Tintagel's father convincing Zaor to step down using his superior logic a la Family guy...nor was Mr. Nimesin particularly reasonable in his crusade...Heck, a lot of times, Sun Elves are looking down their noses, sneering at Gray Elves...albeit, considering what we've had to work with...
Well first off the comment was meant tongue in cheeck. My apologies for that not being clear. Second, you're not going to judge a entire race, like the sun elves by isolated cases like Nimesin? Correct? That would be like a person judging all arabs by the murderous acts of a few cowards on 911. |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 21:24:03
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| My comment was also meant as sarcasm/humor, SB. I wasn't about to judge Kymil Nimesin as a fair representation of Sun Elves anymore than I'm gonna use Drizzt Do'Urden to represent all Drow |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 21:28:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
My comment was also meant as sarcasm/humor, SB. I wasn't about to judge Kymil Nimesin as a fair representation of Sun Elves anymore than I'm gonna use Drizzt Do'Urden to represent all Drow
Exactly, he's just an example of how treacherous Nimesin members are.  Sorry of the misunderstanding. |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 23:01:04
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| No problems, no problems...what the heck DID happen to Kymil's mom and family anyways? Vashti seemed particularly venemous... |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2005 : 01:44:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
No problems, no problems...what the heck DID happen to Kymil's mom and family anyways? Vashti seemed particularly venemous...
I don't recall ever seeing any other canon information on the Nimesin clan's current status. |
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elven_songstress
Learned Scribe
126 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2005 : 20:49:18
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| Hmm that is a good question, they aren't mentioned after the attack...maybe they left while the getting away was good, before someone lynched them, like Keryth Blackhelm he always struck me as the noble type. |
We need to be reminded sometimes that a sunrise lasts but a few minutes,but its beauty can burnin our hearts eternally." |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2005 : 03:04:43
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Yeah, I know, I'm a little late in this, but I just finished the book (life is so much different now that I'm an old man . . . I used to finish books a week after they came out).
My main complaints aren't really with the book itself. I really liked Richard's sun elves, who can be upppity and aloof but not neccissarily racist or evil. On the other side, I have heard some people use this occaision to take shots at Elaine's sun elf villains, and all in all, her Kimil Nymesin was an awesome villain, and was never really meant to be an archetypical sun elf, but rather an extreemist one, just as Elaith certainly isn't a typical moon elf.
All that aside, I did actually like Seiveril and Fflar more than I did Araevan. Araevan seemed to be a "typical" elven adventurer, while Seirveril and Flar had a whole host of life experiences that made them more . . . textured. Nothing against Araevan.
I don't really like that this story happens so close to the Shadovar incident. I am reminded of Douglas Niles and an interview that he did about why the second Moonshae trilogy was set so far after the first one, and his answer was that it cheapened the struggle of the characters not to give them time to live their lives after their major victories. To a degree, all of Faerun is running into this problem to me right now . . . too many major events and no one having time to just live thier lives for a while.
Yes, I know, epic novels don't come from seeing heroes settle down, get married, and have a family, but I think its the pace, timing, and scope of the recent series that make it feel like all of Faerun is in constant flux right now.
Bear with me with my next comment, and let me know what you think. I used to really appreciate that RA Salvatore usually wrote about isolated areas in time periods a few years past, and so you could enjoy his books without wondering how they effected the Realms around them. He used to be fond of saying that the Company of the Hall was more or less a snapshot of a group in the Realms.
But Bruenor (yes, I know, many of you think Drizzt is important in the grand scheme, but not really . . . ) has become larger than life, much like Elminster and Ed's other iconic characters. Bruenor is a well known dwarven king, and a major factor in Faerun. Lest anyone blame WOTC for tying him in too much, RAS is the one that had him allying constantly with Alustriel and Silverymoon, thus making the Silver Marches connection logical. Furthermore, Obould was a pre-exsiting character that was coopted into the Drizzt universe.
Where am I going with this? There should have been Mithril Hall dwarves with the army from the Silver Marches. We should have heard about the state of the orc tribes of the North and if the orcs that rallied to the Dlardregeth cause were from the Kingdom of Many Arrows or were unaffiliated tribes.
The fault isn't Richard Baker's, but I wonder if everyone is terrified of RAS's ultimatum . . . i.e. anyone else writes my characters and I'm gone forever. Others have no problem with a Elminster CAMEO here or there, or Khelbun, etc. . . but no one even mentions Bruenor, and I wonder if its due to this ultimatum . . . that and he has taken a major area of the North, from Mithril Hall and the Kindom of Dark Arrows, all the way down to Nesme and the Trollmoors . . . and put them in limbo for years until he finishes the story he left off at the end of the last trilogy.
It just seems like everyone else is "playing nice" with the Realms except someone whose books I used to really enjoy. I don't want to overly bash him . . . but the big gaping silences really speak volumes when Bruenor and his realm should be a part of a story like this.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36826 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2005 : 03:19:32
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
The fault isn't Richard Baker's, but I wonder if everyone is terrified of RAS's ultimatum . . . i.e. anyone else writes my characters and I'm gone forever.
Huh? He actually said that? |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2005 : 03:24:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
The fault isn't Richard Baker's, but I wonder if everyone is terrified of RAS's ultimatum . . . i.e. anyone else writes my characters and I'm gone forever.
Huh? He actually said that?
What's the source where you got this information on Mr. Salvatore's ultimatum? |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2005 : 03:29:43
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| Check out the archives at Mortality radio. When he did his interview with them he mentions that particular threat. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2005 : 03:32:35
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Check out the archives at Mortality radio. When he did his interview with them he mentions that particular threat.
Will do. I listened in on the interview and even got him to answer one of my questions. However, I don't recall him stating what you have put forth. But, it's been awhile, and especially since WOTSQ has concluded, I'll be curious to hear the interview again. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2005 : 03:47:17
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| It had to do with the TSR/WOTC transition, and someone else was slated to write a Drizzt novel. I don't fault him for not being happy, and apparently the book was done and WOTC pulled it to get him to work for them again. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2005 : 03:49:23
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
It had to do with the TSR/WOTC transition, and someone else was slated to write a Drizzt novel. I don't fault him for not being happy, and apparently the book was done and WOTC pulled it to get him to work for them again.
Yes, I know those details and the author's name if I recall correctly was Marc Anthony. I just don't recall his threat that you are mentioning. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2005 : 03:50:39
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| I know, I have made him sound more sinister than he deserves, especially given the circumstaces under with the statement was made to WOTC, but I just find it interesting that there are cameos of all sorts of other peoples characters (witness Galeron's mother in Forsaken House), but none of RAS characters . . . |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2005 : 04:02:39
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I know, I have made him sound more sinister than he deserves,
Well, I've downloaded the interview and will listen to again when I have the chance the next couple of days. I'll be curious as to his exact words and tone when hearing the statement you have attributed to him.
quote:
but I just find it interesting that there are cameos of all sorts of other peoples characters (witness Galeron's mother in Forsaken House), but none of RAS characters . . .
Some might not feel that is a bad thing... |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2005 : 04:08:11
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| Perhaps, but I am in this case mainly referring to Bruenor . . . |
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Paec_djinn
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2005 : 04:41:47
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
But Bruenor (yes, I know, many of you think Drizzt is important in the grand scheme, but not really . . . ) has become larger than life, much like Elminster and Ed's other iconic characters. Bruenor is a well known dwarven king, and a major factor in Faerun. Lest anyone blame WOTC for tying him in too much, RAS is the one that had him allying constantly with Alustriel and Silverymoon, thus making the Silver Marches connection logical. Furthermore, Obould was a pre-exsiting character that was coopted into the Drizzt universe.
Where am I going with this? There should have been Mithril Hall dwarves with the army from the Silver Marches. We should have heard about the state of the orc tribes of the North and if the orcs that rallied to the Dlardregeth cause were from the Kingdom of Many Arrows or were unaffiliated tribes.
The fault isn't Richard Baker's, but I wonder if everyone is terrified of RAS's ultimatum . . . i.e. anyone else writes my characters and I'm gone forever. Others have no problem with a Elminster CAMEO here or there, or Khelbun, etc. . . but no one even mentions Bruenor, and I wonder if its due to this ultimatum . . . that and he has taken a major area of the North, from Mithril Hall and the Kindom of Dark Arrows, all the way down to Nesme and the Trollmoors . . . and put them in limbo for years until he finishes the story he left off at the end of the last trilogy.
I haven't read The Two Swords yet so I'm going to reserve my judgement on the first paragraph about Bruenor. But IMO, the army from Silverymoon only consisted of mostly southern Silver Marches cities. I don't remember correctly but I believe Citadel Adbar and/or Felbarr didn't send an army.
Again i don't remember tiny details but if I'm correct the Dladrageths only searched for orc allies around the High Forest-Evereska area and didn't go too far to the Silver Marches. Besides most of Obould's army came from the Spine of the World.
I have to disagree with your last statement though. I haven't heard the interview yet but based on what I do know, another author wrote a Drizzt short story in one of the 'Realms of...' anthologies and Salvatore still continued writing. The incident where he almost stopped writing Drizzt books was because of a disagreement with TSR and not because they contracted Marc Anthony to write it. They only contracted Anthony AFTER the disagreement.
I don't believe that RAS is putting that region in limbo at all. It just so happens not many people write a story that far north. After all, Wizards own the rights to Drizzt and friends and I don't think that if anyone used his characters in short cameos or just mentioned their names he would mind at all.
You have to remember that a short story about Drizzt has been written by another author before and despite that RAS still writes Drizzt books. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2005 : 04:51:37
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I'll agree with you about the orcs, but Felbarr was mentioned when the army first formed, though I did notice later only the Adbarim dwarves are referenced.
I did miss quite a few of the short stories anthologies during the "dark time" (some people refer to it as my marriage to my ex wife . . . go figure). I remember references to a short story written about Zaknafein and Drizzt as a young one, and that it was not a RAS story, and of course Guenhwyvar's history as well, but I don't think he was quite as on about "flashbacks" in short stories as he was about "modern" cannon that would affect the current state of his characters.
But he does quite clearly say in that interview that if anyone else writes his characters he would not come back to them. Now it could be that he meant, "if anyone else writes a full length story featuring one of them as a main character I won't write for them anymore," but you have to listen to it and come to your own conclusion.
Yes, I know the falling out with TSR came first, but the ultimatum was leveled at WOTC when they asked him to come back.
And before anyone thinks I just want to bash RAS, I loved all of his earlier stuff, and I will vehemently defend "Spine of the World" as a great "everyday person" book, where no artifacts are reclaimed, no empires challenged, nothing but a story about a character and his trials and tribulations, the kind I wish saw print more often. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2005 : 06:42:28
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Check out the archives at Mortality radio. When he did his interview with them he mentions that particular threat.
Well, I just listened to the Mortality radio interview and heard nothing that could be termed an ultimatum in the manner previously described. When discussing the "Shores of Dusk" situation at the 89 minute mark, Mr. Salvatore does stress that he's "not sharing Drizzt." The whole incident regarding that almost published novel he sums up as about "control over certain part of the Realms" that was taken away from him.
At the 82:15 mark in the interview he does discuss cameos when Elminster and Drizzt are mentioned. He states that he doesn't want anyone writing Drizzt although he feels a cameo in an Elminster book might be possible. But, he states at the end of his answer that there is "no need to borrow" characters.
SB |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2005 : 06:58:06
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| It may just be the paranoia kicking in . . . or working long hours on a weekend. I appologize if I read too much into it . . . |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2005 : 07:01:05
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
At the 82:15 mark in the interview he does discuss cameos when Elminster and Drizzt are mentioned. He states that he doesn't want anyone writing Drizzt although he feels a cameo in an Elminster book might be possible. But, he states at the end of his answer that there is "no need to borrow" characters.
Yeah the cameo probably being Elminster being in Silverymoon to visit Alustriel and who else would be visiting the High Lady at the same time.
Hey.. speaking of which.. someone better tell Alustriel that Catti's finally making a play for Drizzt and she better defend what's hers, hehehe. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2005 : 07:22:27
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
It may just be the paranoia kicking in . . . or working long hours on a weekend. I appologize if I read too much into it . . .
Well, it may still be in the interview and I just missed it. But, that's twice I've listened to it, once live and now this. And both times, I don't recall any such threat or demand.
I think the absence of any characters in this series from Salvatore's stories might simply be that Richard Baker has no way of knowing what R.A. Salvatore has planned in the future for his characters and the area they are operating in. Thus, it's easier to just write around something than to include a certain character, even in a cameo, or include an area and end up having continuity issues. |
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Paec_djinn
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2005 : 08:15:10
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quote:
But he does quite clearly say in that interview that if anyone else writes his characters he would not come back to them. Now it could be that he meant, "if anyone else writes a full length story featuring one of them as a main character I won't write for them anymore," but you have to listen to it and come to your own conclusion.
I think he means that he won't write about Drizzt(and company) if anyone does write a novel with them as main characters(or POV characters). Perhaps if Shores of Dusk did release, we would have probably seen the last of RA Salvatore novels featuring Drizzt.
quote:
I think the absence of any characters in this series from Salvatore's stories might simply be that Richard Baker has no way of knowing what R.A. Salvatore has planned in the future for his characters and the area they are operating in. Thus, it's easier to just write around something than to include a certain character, even in a cameo, or include an area and end up having continuity issues.
This is what I would have thought too. I doubt by the time Richard Baker finished his story he had already read the Two Swords or knew what was going to happen and I guess the best way to avoid errors was to try to ignore them. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2005 : 01:13:11
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I would like to first appologize for jumping the gun on a couple of my assumptions earlier in this thread. I did not do due dilligence and research in backing up my "gut reactions" and I have now.
I realize now for example that Silver Marches was scheduled to come out in July 2002, and The Thousand Orcs came out in October 2002, which means that if no one inside WOTC coordinated the books and products, the authors were not likely to have known what the other one was doing. I misread much of the trilogy as an intentional set up to the events in the Silver Marches sourcebook since the time of the novel series is several years before the sourcebook. The only glaring mistake that I would hang on the authors then is the fact that they mention Bruenor only having one eye and that Catti-brie and Wulfgar were married, and at that point Bruenor's eye was regenerated and Wulgar and Catti-brie never actually got married. Even at that I am not sure about when the material was generated, but I think they should have had enough time to correct these errors since Bruenor's eye has been back since Passage to Dawn.
I was away from D&D and the Realms for several years due to my divorce, and really only got back into the flow of things in 2003, so I appologize for my hasty comments.
On the subject of RAS and the Mortality radio interview, I may have interpreted things differently, but I did hear what I thought I did, I think I just did not hear the same connotations that others have. Around the 92:24 mark he talks about not wanted to share characters, and never writing them again if someone else writes them, which I know that most people have inferred as meaning featuring them as the main character in a novel. I would have thought this myself, but for the comment about Artemis that he makes were he very specifically tells them that THEY have to FIX him (i.e. his loosing an arm) becuase he is going to keep writing him the way he always has. Perhaps I just threw too much into the mix.
I appologize for putting the cart in front of the pack lizard. I just wish someone would mention Bruenor being on the Silver Marches council or even Mithril Hall troops, as I don't think that even with the unresolved conflict this would be too difficult to see happen. Such a mention should not overly damage the "control over parts of the Realms" that RAS mentioned any more than his use of Alustriel over the years or Elaine's use of Khelbun, or even Troy Denning's use of Elminster and and Chosen in the Archwizards book.
I guess the only thing that really spoiled anything for me was that I almost felt like there was an intentional dancing around Bruenor's territory, and that breaks the suspension of disbelief. I could be wrong and Richard Baker may never have even thought that he was intentionally not mentioning Bruenor or Mithril Hall, and I freely admit that I might have read too much into this.
Of course thats likely because the Hunter Blades trilogy had way too much of an open end to it.
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Paec_djinn
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2005 : 09:25:25
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quote:
I would like to first appologize for jumping the gun on a couple of my assumptions earlier in this thread. I did not do due dilligence and research in backing up my "gut reactions" and I have now.
No harm done...
quote:
I realize now for example that Silver Marches was scheduled to come out in July 2002, and The Thousand Orcs came out in October 2002, which means that if no one inside WOTC coordinated the books and products,
Not to mention that until the recent reprinting of the latest Legends of Drizzt series, there wasn't a clear timeline of Drizzt's story and it probably would have caused continuity errors if this wasn't cleared up. |
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Forsaken House (The Last Mythal Book I) Spoilers
