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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Oct 2004 : 10:38:28
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Guys, Flar is a good old elf boy! you can read more on his involvement in the defense of Myth Drannor by leafing through the "Cormanthyr" book available in download on the FR site download section...
Krafus: "Forsaken House" has rekindled my "elf-love" too!  My most recent PC is a sun elf bladesinger! 
Also, I'd like to add that I am DEEEEE-lighted that Mr. Baker chose a sun elf as the book's main character. Add to that the fact that he's gone beyond the regular "Durothil-sun-elf-nazi" stereotype (i.e. the quasi-evil haters of all that is non-elf), and you can pretty much guess that I was in heaven when I read that book... I've been a big supporter of "sun elf inner goodness" throughout all my campaigns along the years. I always tell my players "think of a young Einstein or highly intelligent, genius young man of good alignment when you think of sun elves: their brains and intellect somewhat makes them aloof, distant and perhaps at times socially inept... doesn't mean they are not good." |
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Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2004 : 14:07:53
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quote:
Krafus: "Forsaken House" has rekindled my "elf-love" too! My most recent PC is a sun elf bladesinger!
Heh heh. Well, creating a sun elf character is no reason to blush IMHO. You can even use him to improve the image of sun elves (and knock down racist sun elves you might encounter a notch or two). |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2004 : 16:38:34
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That's exactly what Rhistel has been doing so far! you can read about his adventures in the Candlekeep Inn section, "Main Room" and "Grounds of Candlekeep" threads...
You seem to be reading my mind, or my IC posts!  |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2005 : 02:16:23
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All right, I realize this book has gotten rave reviews (at least here), but personally, after having read it a while back, my thoughts continue to repeat over and over again: "What's all the fuss about?" Trust me, I was really excited about this book, too, I really wanted to like it, and I read the little quote on the cover like anyone else did (about this book possibly being "the best written Realms book yet"). I'm sorry to say that not only do I disagree, but I found this book both irritating and disappointing, for a number of reasons. And that's coming from a person who--by and large--enjoys just about every Realms book she reads. I am not the most discerning of FR readers.
There were things about the book I liked. It's true that the book is very epic in scope; the actual plot involving the fey'ri and their menace is very, very interesting. I found the major bad guys to be more interesting than most of the "good guys", in fact. Not only that, Mr. Baker's actual descriptive prose is very, very nicely written. I can see that there is writing talent within the pages.
However, for me the negative points detracted from the reading experience too much for me to simply overlook them and think of the book as being that good. The parts that irritated me...
--The profound lack of characterization and personality in the major characters. Some of my criticisms may seem like nitpicks, but this one flaw in the book is the single most important one I am going to mention...and no review of this book has changed (or will change) my opinion about this. I just did not feel that most of the characters were all that well fleshed out; after reading the book, I know more about what their powers are, what their race is, and what they look like, rather than the complexities of their personalities. Yes, it's true that many Realms books are like this, but to say that all FR books feature badly fleshed out characters would be just plain untrue IMO. Realms books can feature complex, human characters--any book that is going to be among the best written Realms books (if not THE best written book) is going to have to have more interesting characters than the ones I read about in Forsaken House.
An epic story and beautiful descriptions aren't going to make me care about or sympathize with the book's characters, and by and large that was the case for me with this book. Take Araevin, for example: he may well be the most fleshed out, most characterized person in the main "party" of protagonists, but it seems like of a lot of what makes his character interesting comes from a plot twist that happens near the end of the book (which is sheer coincidence, as some have pointed out). It's true that that allows him to survive, but I still think a "normal", quiet, bookish gold elven mage has plenty of potential in itself. I just didn't feel for Araevin or Esvelle or any of their friends the way I felt for Arvin of Hlondeth (Venom's Taste), Liriel Baenre (Starlight and Shadows), or Larajin (Sembia). They didn't jump off the pages at me with any kind of passion, they just seemed to go through the motions of being "heroes" without intensity, humanity or much emotion--if any.
--The way the characters reacted to certain deaths in the book. This goes back to my first point. First off all, Brant is even less fleshed out than any of the other character, and says almost nothing. It's as if the author was afraid to let either the reader or the party members get too attached to him (because of this, I could almost predict he wouldn't survive the book). As a result, when he died I just didn't feel anything--not because I'm a cold person but because I never got to know Brant, and the scene didn't evoke much pathos at all. Only Grayth seems all that upset by Brant's death; Araevin came across as a bit cold, considering that this person just got torn to pieces by a canoloth. I was surprised (or was I?) when Esvelle and Maresa did not react at all to Brant's death. Remember--reaction doesn't have to mean they say something, it can simply be a wince or a disquieting feeling that perhaps no one will survive the journey. That no one know Brant too well isn't an excuse--if you traveled with someone for a while and watched them get torn apart by a fiend from the nether planes, don't tell me you'd just forget it ever happened...at least not if you are supposedly a "good" person who cares about others.
Grayth's death--done much, much better than Brant's death. At least Grayth's death actually seemed to mean something in the book, and it did (as opposed to Brant, who seemed to exist just to be killed off later). But again--Maresa didn't react at all. Not even with a thought that going adventuring to get some treasure--and that was definitely a personal motivation for her--can take it's toll on the people with you, and perhaps cost you your life in the end. By the way, Maresa was the only character that leaped off the pages for me, at least more than the other characters. I felt the author missed a good opportunity to give her some more humanity by not having her react to things like death. That's how characters grow and become real in my mind (and I liked how Maresa was selfish, btw--why should *everyone* on the good guy's side have the same exact concerns that he does?).
--The dialogue in general. Granted, not all of it was that bad, but much of it felt very routine and run-of-the-mill to me. Much of the time, Araevin and company just walk around stating the obvious. Where's the fun, witty banter one gets when they read a book like The Rage? Not only that, the book got on my nerves a bit because much of the language got very D&Dish: to paraphrase "An iron golem! Got any spells that can hurt it?" That kind of dialogue takes me out of the atmosphere and makes me start to feel like I'm reading a D&D campaign log.
--On the subject of D&D campaigns: in spite of the epic scope of the book, the route the protagonists (Araevin in friends) take is a routine "search for and collect the magic item McGuffins" style plot. This is a minor quibble as Forsaken House is certainly not unique among FR books in this respect, but it is a quibble nonetheless.
--The Gary-Stuishness of Methrammar Aerasume. Again, this is a minor quibble, but I'm telling you all what irritated me. I only need to read about how handsome, lordly, and heroic he is so many times before I stop caring about how noble he looks in his shining armor and cape and start wondering about what his personality is like. Again, this goes back to my first, most important point: I came away from the book knowing more about what Methrammar looked like than about his character (and again, skills and abilities do not equal character/personality). The budding romance between this half-elf and Gaerradhe is a little bit obvious (for me anyway ) and I wonder what it was that they found attractive about each other. It this just an infatuation, based on appearances and how bold people are in battle? That's the impression I started to get when reading the book--but time will tell.
--The tendency of the book to be incredibly biased towards the "good guys". It may seem like I'm being very fatuous here, but please hear me out. How come all the elves at the Evermeet council meetings who didn't agree with Severil and didn't like the queen (who were all gold elves by the way, because no other elf can ever be so closed-minded ) were portrayed as nasty, racist people in general? Again, this is a minor point and I may sound nit-picky, but I didn't always feel that the council meetings were exchanges between equals. How about having the queen's detractors make some sound points, and not come across jerks? Remember, there is nothing inherently wrong with disagreeing with authority (IMO), even if that authority is supposedly put in place by deities. The novel The Rite featured council meetings were everyone made good points, and the detractors weren't all vicious snakes to be glared and scowled at.
--The return of Fflar. Personal bias here, but I really liked it better when he was a mystery. And really, the idea of a human paladin or half-elven ranger being Fflar (a couple of things suggested in the Fall of Myth Drannor sourcebook) stirred my imagination a lot more than Starbow did in the book. He has a few good scenes (especially at the end of the book) but back to my first point...I didn't feel that this individual was very well fleshed out or made real. Is he supposed to evoke the reader's interest just because he was Fflar? That was what he did centuries ago--but what kind of person is he?
I realize that not everyone saw things the way I did (obviously). I realize that nothing I say will change the experience other people had while reading the book, but please respect my opinion in turn; remember I gave the book a chance and read it with an open mind. I didn't dislike everything about the book, but a lot of other books I've read of late have been much better, and I'd rather recommend them: The Rage, The Rite, Venom's Taste, Lord of Stormweather, The Yellow Silk, to name a few. The quote on the book is high praise, but I have to disagree with Mr. Greenwood--who writes splendid books himself, btw--and I feel that what's between the book covers is what counts. I'm going to read Farthest Reach and Final Gate, steadfast Realms fan that I am, but that doesn't mean I'm looking forward to a fantastic reading experience.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 08 Feb 2005 03:45:46 |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2005 : 07:15:06
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I actually agree with the comment on the backcover; Forsaken House is definitely one of the better-written FR novels I've read. Technically -- because that's what I usually think of when thinking "well-written"; the technical aspects are sound and competent. The more subjective bits, well, that's another thing.
First, the things I like: the combat sequences are well executed and engaging, befitting the epic scope. Here both sides are believably competent, rather than the one-sided kick-the-elves-to-death in Return of the Archwizards trilogy. But I agree with Rinonalyrna Fathomlin where characterization is concerned. For all their air time and the length and breadth of their deeds, the characters are strangely... not there. I endeavored to empathize with and like them, but it was an uphill battle that, I regret to say, I lost spectacularly.
Araevin is the protagonist, but somehow, he doesn't feel genuine enough for me. Even his romantic interest in Ilsevelle doesn't feel like a real romance; there's nothing there to convince me that he loves this woman, or that this woman loves him. He shows about as much concern for her as for a pack horse. He lacks a drive, and he falls into the same trap as many, many protagonists do: he doesn't act, but react.
Which brings me to a character that I really like: Maresa. I like that she's selfish; IMO, fantasy needs more selfish protagonists. These people are the ones who cry, "I want, I want!" with passion and will result in "I do." Otherwise, it's mostly just a matter of "Generic Dark Lord/Lady/Evil Something #345,899 attacks my home/killed my puppy/blah-de-la-blah, therefore I react." (I'm fond of protagonists who initiate action, scheme, manipulate, pursue something with zeal, and drag other people through it all with them. Yes, I'm also aware that the kind of protagonists I like overlaps with what most people associate with "villains." So?) The bit where Araevin wonders if he should congratulate her for killing a parent's murderer is a particularly memorable part for me, and her lines make me grin.
I still am not sure why Brant was included at all. He has perhaps less than five lines of dialogue, and then he dies. Grayth isn't allowed to develop very much before he dies, either. I'd thought that his death would spur Araevin on a little more, give him some more zeal, but again, no.
Seiveril strikes me as a bit naive and untried for someone of his years and apparent power. He doesn't elicit much from me, although I do think that he has rather more passion than either his daughter or his would-be son-in-law. Fflar is... I'm not sure what I can say about him, since all I remember is that he wields a sword called Keryvian. Actually, his sword may have more personality than he does. Gaerradh and Methrammar: no comment on these, either, because again, I feel there's nothing to, well, feel about them.
The pronounciation guide in the dramatis personae is a nice addition, since yes, I do find most of these names verging on the realm of unutterable. And on that note, I also find the fey'ri considerably more interesting than the "heroes." Sarya, in particular, stands out at least as a competent villain. Her scenes don't deal with her just gloating or giving away the plot; she plans intelligently, if nothing else, and that's a rare thing for fantasy antagonists.
By no means was the book bad, and I'm glad that we get to see how the elves are doing after the events in the Return of the Archwizards trilogy and Evermeet: Island of Elves. |
Edited by - Winterfox on 10 Feb 2005 07:19:42 |
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Aysen
Learned Scribe
115 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2005 : 03:57:23
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In response, to earlier discussions on who Malkizid is, the WOTC website relased an excerpt from their Lost Empires of Faerun sourcebook. One of the pages has a timeline where some interesting tidbits about Malkizid are revealed. Apparently he's a fallen solar.
www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050202a&page=4
Hope this helps! |
Edited by - Alaundo on 12 Feb 2005 10:19:22 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 18:51:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
Seiveril strikes me as a bit naive and untried for someone of his years and apparent power. He doesn't elicit much from me, although I do think that he has rather more passion than either his daughter or his would-be son-in-law. Fflar is...
You think some of what you are calling naive and untried could be aftershocks from his wife's recent death? After all, as described in the tome, it's clear he's still deeply affected by her loss and his attempt to bring her back. |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2005 : 03:29:18
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| Gotta admit, I first thought Malkizid was Sarya's father, her being half Balor... (Out of sheer curiosity, how the hell is Xalph half-elf and half-demon? Shouldn't he just have a quarter of elf blood, a quarter of balor and half glabrezu? |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2005 : 08:01:54
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
You think some of what you are calling naive and untried could be aftershocks from his wife's recent death? After all, as described in the tome, it's clear he's still deeply affected by her loss and his attempt to bring her back.
I'd think her death and his attempt to resurrect her would've made him even more jaded or pessimistic, if anything.
His attitude is the least of the problems I have with this novel, in any case. |
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Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2005 : 14:35:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
I'd think her death and his attempt to resurrect her would've made him even more jaded or pessimistic, if anything.
His attitude is the least of the problems I have with this novel, in any case.
What are the others, Winterfox? I thought it was a pretty good D&D novel. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2005 : 17:25:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
I'd think her death and his attempt to resurrect her would've made him even more jaded or pessimistic, if anything.
Even with what she tells him about having a great "labor" to complete and that he will soon join her? I think the resurrection attempt clearly why he's leading the Evermeet forces and shows why he wouldn't be jaded or pessimistic. He knows he will soon be with his wife in Arvandor. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 03:44:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Krafus
What are the others, Winterfox? I thought it was a pretty good D&D novel.
Read page five. Both Winterfox and I posted, on that page, some of our problems with this novel. I've read a lot of FR novels, and Forsaken House is far from being one of the best--all the praise this novel has garnered isn't going to change the fact that it just didn't do much for me.
There is a new book about dating entitled He's Just Not That Into You. Well, that sums up my feelings towards this book, more or less. I'm glad I read it, but didn't find it to be that great either. If you enjoyed it I'm glad for you--I love the Realms and wouldn't want anyone to have a bad time reading about it. But this book...eh. Very problematic from my perspective, and very overrated.
To add to what I said on page 5, I thought Forsaken House had a surprising lack of humor. I read The Rage afterward, and what a difference there was--it was a good antidote. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 04:45:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
To add to what I said on page 5, I thought Forsaken House had a surprising lack of humor. I read The Rage afterward, and what a difference there was--it was a good antidote.
I'm the exact opposite. I enjoyed The Rage but it pales to the enjoyment I got out of reading The Forsaken House.
And Araevin's betrothed had more than a few humor filled comments. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 05:26:08
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
I'm the exact opposite. I enjoyed The Rage but it pales to the enjoyment I got out of reading The Forsaken House.
*shrug* It's all very subjective. As I said, if you enjoyed the book, I'm glad for you.
quote:
And Araevin's betrothed had more than a few humor filled comments.
Eh...not that much (there's that subjectivity again). I found The Rage to be much more entertaining as a whole. And any of Ed Greenwood's novels even more so; the amount of humor in his books is awesome--he is one author I can count on to make me laugh out loud, and the laughs don't even detract from the serious nature of his stories.
Forsaken House had its humorous moments, but in my opinion not enough. I do believe it is possible for a story to take itself too seriously (and remember, this is only one of many problems I had with the book). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 07:04:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Forsaken House had its humorous moments, but in my opinion not enough. I do believe it is possible for a story to take itself too seriously (and remember, this is only one of many problems I had with the book).
What is your level for how many humorous moments a novel must have?
And what moments in the novel did you feel it took itself too seriously? |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 07:40:49
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Even with what she tells him about having a great "labor" to complete and that he will soon join her? I think the resurrection attempt clearly why he's leading the Evermeet forces and shows why he wouldn't be jaded or pessimistic. He knows he will soon be with his wife in Arvandor.
That may be, but he still sounds hopelessly naive. His expectations of things are not entirely realistic. He strikes me as... sheltered.
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And Araevin's betrothed had more than a few humor filled comments.
Where comic relief is concerned, I think Maresa was the only one that worked for me. Ilsevelle reminds me of Danica from The Cleric Quintet and, yes, this is a negative comparison. She doesn't do much of anything except pull a few "cool" stunts here and there -- and cool stunts, or cool powers, do not a character make. I find her to be pretty much like the rest of the cast. No real personality beyond that of a stock character ("Designated Love Interest" that makes repetitive, "cutesy" comments along the line of "Who'll watch out for you if I weren't there?").
(Edited for typos. Whoops.) |
Edited by - Winterfox on 06 Mar 2005 08:11:01 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 23:50:37
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Forsaken House had its humorous moments, but in my opinion not enough. I do believe it is possible for a story to take itself too seriously (and remember, this is only one of many problems I had with the book).
What is your level for how many humorous moments a novel must have?
I don't have a "designated level" or anything--it's the overall, holistic experience I have while reading the novel. As I said, no one's comments about this novel have been invalid, but--and this goes both ways--no one's opinion is going to turn back the clock and change the experience I had when I read the book. There just wasn't much humor in the book, although like Winterfox I thought some of Maresa's comments were funny, and even Sarya occasionally made me laugh ("I thought I heard a dog barking"--it was nasty and racist, but that made sense for Sarya and at least it was surprising rather than cliched). That doesn't mean I thought Maresa was a well fleshed out character, though--she just had enough life to make me respect her more than the other protagonists.
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And what moments in the novel did you feel it took itself too seriously?
Again--it's hard for me to pick out "moments" because when I say the novel took itself too seriously, I am making a holistic comment about the work. I analyzed parts of the story rather than just the whole back on page 5, but now I'm talking more about the overall reading experience I had (and it should go without saying than anything I write is my opinion).
Sorry, Forsaken House, but I'm just not that into you.
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Ilsevelle reminds me of Danica from The Cleric Quintet and, yes, this is a negative comparison...I find her to be pretty much like the rest of the cast. No real personality beyond that of a stock character ("Designated Love Interest" that makes repetitive, "cutesy" comments along the line of "Who'll watch out for you if I weren't there?").
I felt the same way about Ilsevelle, Winterfox. I've read a lot of fantasy novels, and to me Araevin's betrothed never seemed to move beyond the level of "tried and true" cliched moments and into the realm of being a unique, wonderful personality. And notice how the cutesy comments weren't even consistent throughout the whole book--to me they seemed to peter out significantly by the middle of the novel.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 06:35:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
no one's opinion is going to turn back the clock and change the experience I had when I read the book.
Oh trust me Rinonalyrna Fathomlin if there's anything I know from reading your posts, it's that I will not be able to change your mind on anything. But, thank you for elaborating on your thoughts regarding this novel.
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Sorry, Forsaken House, but I'm just not that into you.
Oh boy  that's even better than Drizzt and the Lost Empire of Faerun which is what I've been calling a recently released gaming product when around my players.
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And notice how the cutesy comments weren't even consistent throughout the whole book--to me they seemed to peter out significantly by the middle of the novel.
Well, things did seem to get a bit tense as the novel progressed almost as if they were in a war. In such situations cute comments might lessen although in my experiences that's not always the case. But, then again, I never had to deal with demonic sun elves in combat. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 23:39:14
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Oh trust me Rinonalyrna Fathomlin if there's anything I know from reading your posts, it's that I will not be able to change your mind on anything. But, thank you for elaborating on your thoughts regarding this novel.
You're welcome.
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Oh boy that's even better than Drizzt and the Lost Empire of Faerun which is what I've been calling a recently released gaming product when around my players.
  
quote:
Well, things did seem to get a bit tense as the novel progressed almost as if they were in a war. In such situations cute comments might lessen although in my experiences that's not always the case. But, then again, I never had to deal with demonic sun elves in combat.
Good points, certainly. However, I would have enjoyed the main characters a lot more if there was some more banter, or at least more conversations that didn't revolve around the plot and/or whatever obstacle was currently in the way of obtaining those artifacts. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2005 : 06:36:19
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Hey, not everyone's the Knights of Myth Drannor...
Nor would I want everyone to be them, either. Personally, I didn't have any problems with the book or the characters (with the possible exception of Brant... jury's still out on him). Personally, I think the priest's attitude was just right: "Whoa, this has gotten a little out of hand. I need someone who's done this before. Let's go resurrect him." |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2005 : 12:43:05
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I finished the book a while back. I devoured it, probably for the very reasons many posters here had a problem with the book.
I agree with much of what has been said, especially about one-dimensional characters, the deaths of characters similar to the death of a nameless away team member on Star Trek, and the "D&D speech."
I really enjoyed the book. Like The Rage, The Forsaken House took me back to the enjoyment I had when I first started reading FR books. It's a really good feeling knowing that the books you've loved for so long still have that powerful spark, at least for me.
One thing I didn't notice with Forsaken House was an attempt to tie itself in with a recent sourcebook, like the Rogue Dragon books do for the Draconimicon. I was thankful that I didn't notice that. |
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
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Paec_djinn
Learned Scribe
173 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 14:54:04
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Alright, I just finished this novel. Somehow or rather, for a book with raving reviews, it didn't get me hooked towards the early stages but later on I breezed through it.
Anyway, like I did for Crucible:
Plot 9/10
The plot was almost flawless and had a lot of epicness to it. It wasn't rushed and Richard Baker's knowledge of the Realms and the way he described the story was excellent. Apart from that, the war was very planned, although I felt it was a little rushed and could have been longer. Not that it really hurt the score though. Still, the book has an epic story and it was very well done
Characters & Development 9.5/10
I liked most of the characters in this story (I would say all if I wanted to). Araevin was well-developed and his journey and thoughts well-delivered by Baker. The party made up of him, Ilsevele, Grayth, Brant and Maresa were a nice group of people with different personalities and so on. Maresa's cockiness was well-done and Grayth's trust friendship with Araevin was rather telling.
The Council of Evermeet scenes did well to show each member's feelings towards the decision and I could understand Amlaruil's dilemma. Seiveril's personal thoughts also were well written. Fflar could have been an interesting character to understand but unfortunately his scenes weren't that many and even then most of them were fight scenes. It would be interesting to see him play more central roles in the next two novels.
On the enemy side, Sarya's quest for power and revenge makes her a very cliched villain IMO. Aside from her cruelty, ambitiousness and devious-plannings, I didn't see much to her. Nurthel however was an interesting character I got to know about well despite his lack of scenes and I would love to know how he got his jeweled-eye. Too bad he's dead... I think the villains probably will be centralized in the next novel and I hope to see more of them and perhaps Malkizid too.
Originality 6.5/10
This book definitely reminds me of the Return of the Archwizards trilogy. The return of an ancient evil and their usage of orcs and other creatures to capture other places. And in the middle, a protagonist who finds himself with new powers. Not very original IMO. Araevin's quest for the next telkira's also seemed cliched. The scenes in Evermeet did add some originality over the Return trilogy but still, I just think that the story could have been a little more original.
Writing Style 9.5/10
I'll give Baker full credit at this. I loved his writing style in Condemnation and I loved it here again in this book. Everything was well written--scenes, creatures, settings and characters well-described, personalities brought out. The skirmishes throughout the story, the Battle of the Cwm, Battle at Lonely Moor, and the Battle at the Lost Peaks were also well written (although some quite rushed but didn't hurt the score). The only problem I had was in the final battle and I got confused between each armies right flank and left flank. It seemed Baker mixed up one army's direction and both ended up having the same flanks (as in right meeting right and left meeting left).
Setting and Flavor 5/5
I'll have to admit that I never really liked Elves much after reading Evermeet but yet this book just told an amazing story of these elves. The flavor was definitely there with Baker describing places and monsters excellently. I'll have to say all the settings Baker brought readers through were nicely described and I'll give him a full score for that. The book is almost like a history of the Dladrageths and some part of ancient elves.
X-Factor 3.5/5
I didn't like elves before I read this book and that unfondness probably caused the deduct a lot. The lack of originality hurt the score a lot and I hope that whatever Sarya has in plan for Book 2 won't be as cliched as the first.
Overall: 43/50
Questions:
1. Why does the back cover say Araevin is from Evereska? I'm guessing it's a publisher error like what I heard happened for Lisa Smedman's two books in her trilogy.
2. Does anyone see more scenes in Evermeet detailing the council's thought following the victory of Seiveril's crusade? |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2005 : 17:31:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Paec_djinn
Apart from that, the war was very planned, although I felt it was a little rushed and could have been longer.
I think word constraints played a role there. WOTC authors, to my knowledge, often have a limit on how large their drafts can be.
quote:
I hope to see more of them and perhaps Malkizid too.
I think it's certain we will see more of this thing.
quote:
I'll have to admit that I never really liked Elves much after reading Evermeet
The novel or the gaming product?
quote:
1. Why does the back cover say Araevin is from Evereska? I'm guessing it's a publisher error like what I heard happened for Lisa Smedman's two books in her trilogy.
It's been mentioned before and I believe it's clearly a typo. The other author's covers aren't really errors so much as too much plot information being revealed.
quote:
Does anyone see more scenes in Evermeet detailing the council's thought following the victory of Seiveril's crusade?
I hope so. How will those council members who oppossed his crusade react now since Seiveril's won an initial victory, but it's clear the crusade will last longer? |
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Sorenna_Melruth
Acolyte
24 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 00:18:19
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| Off topic Demonic Sun elves are better then the uppity stuck up Sun elves I am use to. *lol* But thats just my darker side talking :P |
History is written by those who survive such terriable times,and every person is a hero, and every person is a villan it depends on who's telling the tale. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36826 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 00:36:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Sorenna_Melruth
Off topic Demonic Sun elves are better then the uppity stuck up Sun elves I am use to. *lol* But thats just my darker side talking :P
I certainly find them to be more intriguing... |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Sorenna_Melruth
Acolyte
24 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 00:44:46
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Yes they are, but thats from reading Evermeet and having the Nemilsin clan involved.
*lol* I also like the Countess she seems to be rather interesting I think I like her better then the Sceptered One from the WOSQ series. |
History is written by those who survive such terriable times,and every person is a hero, and every person is a villan it depends on who's telling the tale. |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 01:11:16
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| Not surprising, considering all Kaanyr really DOES is: 'Muse a bit, yell at his allies, compliment his troops and then bang Aliisza.' |
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Sorenna_Melruth
Acolyte
24 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 01:36:06
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Well yes *lol* Thats very true...something about both of them rub me the wrong way. I'd throw a party if they actually killed either one of them off.
I don't expect it mind you,or write asking for it, but I would love to see it happen.
I know everyone's had characters that really rub them the wrong way.
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History is written by those who survive such terriable times,and every person is a hero, and every person is a villan it depends on who's telling the tale. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 03:53:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Sorenna_Melruth
Off topic Demonic Sun elves are better then the uppity stuck up Sun elves I am use to. *lol* But thats just my darker side talking :P
Sun elves aren't uppity. They are very patient with the childish moon elves. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2005 : 03:54:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
Not surprising, considering all Kaanyr really DOES is: 'Muse a bit, yell at his allies, compliment his troops and then bang Aliisza.'
Hard life. The poor cuckold baby. |
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Forsaken House (The Last Mythal Book I) Spoilers
