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Gellion
Learned Scribe
140 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Jul 2004 : 04:21:48
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| Well, I would not have gods at all in my homebrew world. There would still be divine magic, most of the Clerics would be godless Clerics, that follow a philosophy. |
"Paladine, you see the evil that surrounds me! You have been witness to the calamities that have been the scourge of Krynn... You must see now that this doctrine of balance will not work! I can sweep evil from this land. Destroy the ogre races. Bring the wayward humans into line! Find new homelands far away for the dwarves and the kender and the gnomes, those races not of your creation... I demand that you give me, too, the power to drive away the shadows of evil that darken the land!"- THE REIGN OF ISTAR, Tales IV |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2004 : 05:37:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
Well, I would not have gods at all in my homebrew world. There would still be divine magic, most of the Clerics would be godless Clerics, that follow a philosophy.
I never really liked that concept, meself. Worshipping a philosophy just doesn't make sense to me. But that's just me and my humble opinion.  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2004 : 07:15:42
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I sometimes think that I spend too much time tinkering with any worlds pantheons... But, I simply cannot help it. It's one part of the fantasy genre that I find most intriguing. That being said, it's probably of no surprise to anyone here that I like to create cults or churches that recognize multiple gods, and worship them all.
For example, the dwarven Cult of Secrets recognizes Moradin as the Creator who, bound by the lesser gods, whispers knowledge only to his loyal assistant Dumathoin, Keeper of Secrets Under the Mountain, who adjusts the Forge of the Cosmos under the Creator's direction. The naga god Parrafaire is the Guardian appointed by the lesser gods to make sure the Creator is not freed. Dwarven mystics thus commune with Dumathoin, sometimes by the physical activity of digging, and sometimes by attempting to solve the riddles of Parrafaire. By one of these paths, they grow closer to the Creator, bound at the heart of the world.
The dwarven Cult of Madness also reveres Dumathoin, but the Madness Cultists believe he is hiding the secrets of Diinkarazan, a very different Bound God who alone of the dwarven gods knows all the secrets of Ilsensine.
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2004 : 16:26:37
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Well met!
I don't know about any Big 12, which seems to me to just be a Hellenistic prejudice. Yeah, yeah, there are twelve in the Icelandic Eddas too, or at least in Snorri's Edda, but most agree that this was just the author's attempt to systematize things based upon his Hellenistic eduaction.
I would certainly include a god of kingship in any list, as well as a god who is father of all social castes. A smith god. An agricultral or fair weather god/dess. A god/dess of poetry and metaphor. A god/dess of glory. A god/dess of the hunting.
I suppose when it gets right down to it, I would look at the historical experience of the peoples in question, their way of life, their cultural vision, and then create divinities based on that.
Of course, what I find to be more important than the particualr gods and goddesses themselves are how they portrayed ... be there one, two, twelves, or a thousand. I dislike the certitude, the transparent nature of the divine in FR, their relationships with mortals, where this is this and that is that, and no one ever could be wrong about their beliefs or their god's will. I prefer something more distant, more mysterious, in which the will of the gods is more vague and open to question and human fallacy. |
"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2004 : 16:49:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Actually, from what I've read, Loki started out as a fairly decent sort. It was as time went on that he became more evil.
[/quote]
Well, I dunno, but then, even the most heinous criminal started off fairly descent. Of course, I doubt that the goddess Sif thought it was all that descent when Laufey's son cut all of her hair off for no good reason. And while some peculair folk often make a big deal out of all the gifts he won the Tivar, not once was this ever done out of good intent or love for the gods, but out of a simple animalistic impulse to save his own butt.
Like all selfish cowards, Laufey's son eventually grew resentful and bitter toward his peers, and sought to bring them down to his own level ... and when he couldn't, he tried to bring about their destruction.
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"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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Gellion
Learned Scribe
140 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2004 : 18:59:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
Well, I would not have gods at all in my homebrew world. There would still be divine magic, most of the Clerics would be godless Clerics, that follow a philosophy.
I never really liked that concept, meself. Worshipping a philosophy just doesn't make sense to me. But that's just me and my humble opinion.
Well, it is more lile believeing so deeply in a philosophy, that you get divine magic. I cant stand deities, cause they are all greedy, and do not care about their followers at all. |
"Paladine, you see the evil that surrounds me! You have been witness to the calamities that have been the scourge of Krynn... You must see now that this doctrine of balance will not work! I can sweep evil from this land. Destroy the ogre races. Bring the wayward humans into line! Find new homelands far away for the dwarves and the kender and the gnomes, those races not of your creation... I demand that you give me, too, the power to drive away the shadows of evil that darken the land!"- THE REIGN OF ISTAR, Tales IV |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2004 : 19:15:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
Well, I would not have gods at all in my homebrew world. There would still be divine magic, most of the Clerics would be godless Clerics, that follow a philosophy.
I never really liked that concept, meself. Worshipping a philosophy just doesn't make sense to me. But that's just me and my humble opinion.
Well, it is more lile believeing so deeply in a philosophy, that you get divine magic. I cant stand deities, cause they are all greedy, and do not care about their followers at all.
That's not the case in the Realms...  |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2004 : 19:17:45
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| I don't believe he was saying that it was. I think he was refering to a homebrew campaign. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2004 : 20:54:51
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Nay, tis true with the realms. Deities should serve the mortal's needs... not the other way around.
One type of Deity that we hath not seen mentioned yet tis a God/dess of Fate and Time... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2004 : 22:45:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Cardinal Deimos
Nay, tis true with the realms. Deities should serve the mortal's needs... not the other way around.
One type of Deity that we hath not seen mentioned yet tis a God/dess of Fate and Time...
And since the ToT, the gods have, for the most part, been servient to the needs of their worshippers. It's all about what Ao decreed: do right by your worshippers, or lose power.
Granted, some evil deities aren't exactly toeing the line on this one, but for the most part, they are.
Mystryl used to cover time, but I think it's left alone, now. Mystra has picked it up, I think, but isn't doing anything with it.
I believe that the lost goddess called the Simbul (where the Chosen got her name) was a goddess of fate, but I'd have to check on that one. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 04:20:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I believe that the lost goddess called the Simbul (where the Chosen got her name) was a goddess of fate, but I'd have to check on that one.
Sounds like the information found under the Labelas Enoreth write up on page 117 of Demihuman Deities. |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 21 Jul 2004 04:21:01 |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 04:27:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Gellion:
I can't stand deities, because they are all greedy, and do not care about their followers at all.
You're not a member of the Athar, are you?
*ducks behind abookcase to avoid Alaundo's gaze*
I know, I know, Realms only. But I had to ask.quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert:
Mystryl used to cover time, but I think it's left alone, now. Mystra has picked it up, I think, but isn't doing anything with it.
In the Realms, Time, as an official portfolio, has never been held by a single deity, but prior to the fall of Netheril it was offcially the purview of Amaunator, though in fact and in practice it was Mystryl's domain.quote:
Originally from Netheril - Empire of Magic:
Amaunator was also occasionally revered as the keeper of time. This artificial addition to his portfolio was due to a mispunctuation in a contract between himself and another deity which stated: . . .Amaunator shall be responsible for all time. any misrepresentation of his or his followers, If so deemed the fault of Amaunator . . . . This unnoticed punctuational snarl of commas and periods led to Amaunator considering himself to be in charge of all time. Fortunately, he never officially attempted to take over the portfolio, since he wasnt willing to step on the toes of Mystryl, who was the practical and actual keeper of the timestream.
Deities and contracts mix poorly. It was interesting how Mystryl was described as being strict in the protection of time, when she was in practice very liberal with rules protecting the Weave and magic. In any case, in the modern Realms, while time reamins an unoffcial portfolio, it falls to Mystra to protect time, as with her predecessors. This power of time, vested in the goddesses of magic, is interesting in that it is really derived fro the fact that magic is the only way to affect time in the Realms, so it is left to the goddesses of magic to ensure magic is not used to abuse time. Wonder if that means Shar is also charged with guarding time?
I firmly believe the structure of a pantheon reflects heavily on the nature of your campaign world. This is seen quite clearly in the Realms, as the copious powers of the Realms vie from dominance, in a never ending cold war that regularly messes up the lives of god, honest, hard working Realmsians. Meanwhile in another campaign setting the cmplete lack of gods causes mortals of power to struggle to become the first true deities. Since the gods play such an important roles in most campaigns pantheon design is critical to setting the tone. I persoanlly usually use two rules above all else when designing pantheons: The Rule of Three and the Untiy of Rings. As any Planar will tell these rules are a constant in the multiverse, along with the Center of the Multiverse. (Rule of Three, three rules, see where I'm going?)
Anyways, an example of this would be one campaign world I created set the gods in that world against each other in threes, witht he gods of creation, destruction and balance forming the most powerful triad. Magic, Technology and Time were also set in a triad. Another way I've done it in the past is the organize an pantheon like the Great Wheel, which is to sa organize the gods into Law, Balance, Choas; Good, Neutrality and Evil, much as the Outer Planes are organized (threes anyone?). I think following a preset structure is important, because otherwise you pantheon overlaps or develops gaps, or just doesn't make sense. Of course, a well placed Goswar can even everything out.  |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm
pie
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- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 05:24:02
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| Is balance really necessary among the gods? I kind of like the idea of struggling deities of good rebelling against tryannic ruling evil gods. Anyone try a setting where the pantheon is not balanced? Evil might be dominant, or chaos; imagine if a god of something relatively minor to us, like thievery, was the mightiest. |
But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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Talwyn
Learned Scribe
Australia
222 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 05:38:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Cardinal Deimos
Nay, tis true with the realms. Deities should serve the mortal's needs... not the other way around.
One type of Deity that we hath not seen mentioned yet tis a God/dess of Fate and Time...
I thought the elven god Labellas dealt with time?
As to fate, were not the tablets that where stolen by Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul the repository of all fate? |
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on.
Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun.
EAT LEADEN DEATH DEMON!
Terry Pratchett
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 06:43:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Talwyn
As to fate, were not the tablets that where stolen by Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul the repository of all fate?
As I recall, they weren't much more than just tablets that detailed each deity's responsibilities. I seem to recall Ao destroying the Tablets, as well, at the end of the ToT. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 06:58:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Sourcemaster2:
Is balance really necessary among the gods?
I would say no, however, if the pantheon is unbalanced, favouring one side more than the other it will upset the balance of the world the gods are bound to. That is, if the pantheon is predominently evil, then so will the world. This may be what you're aiming for, but in general I think a balance, no matter how precarious is the best place to start from; balanced worlds tend to have more longevity in my experience, where as eventually an unbalanced world goes to far one way or another and it becomes tired. As I said, my experience.
The biggest thing to remember is in most worlds the design of the pantheon reflects on the world, therefore the more choatic your pantheon, the more choatic the world. In the end, remember there are varying degrees of balance, in the case of the Realms the balance is generally precarious, with power shifting constantly and gods rising and falling. Its balanced, but barely most of the time.
In the end it depends on the flaour you are aiming for in your world. Generally, I am speaking from my opinion and experience in world creation, which is that no matter how you screw up the pantheon, start it out balanced, then shift the power. Of course, that's just my opinion.quote:
Originally posted by Talwyn:
I thought the elven god Labellas dealt with time?
While Labelas Enoreth does possess the portfolio Time, strictly speaking he is more a god of longevity and aging, than the caretaker of time. Labelas is largely reflective of how the elves are so long-lived and how they percieve the passing of time. Strictly speaking Labelas does not concern himself with things like time travelers and alterations to the timeline, which have classically been the purview of Mystryl/Mystra, largely resultant fromt eh fact magic is the only known way to traverse time in the Realms (and most other worlds).quote:
Originally posted by Talwyn:
As to fate, were not the tablets that where stolen by Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul the repository of all fate?
Actually, no. The name 'Tablets fo Fate' is decieving, infact all the Tablets did, as illustrated by Lord Ao at the end of Waterdeep, was to record what porfolios each god was vested with, and therefore spell out what conduct each deity would be held to (i.e. a god of love would be obliged to act differently than a god of murder in order to preserve the Balance). By stealing the tablets, all Bane and Myrkul did was make Lord Ao really, really, REALLY mad, as in of themselves the tablets held no power, and were the key to nothing. They were symbols, nothing more, nothing less.
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Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm
pie
"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 08:57:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Edain Shadowstar
*ducks behind abookcase to avoid Alaundo's gaze*
I know, I know, Realms only. But I had to ask.
Well met
Ahhh, welcome back, Edain! Hiding behind bookcase yonder will not protect thee   |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - Alaundo on 21 Jul 2004 08:58:06 |
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Gellion
Learned Scribe
140 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 12:37:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
I don't believe he was saying that it was. I think he was refering to a homebrew campaign.
I was referring to the realms. The gods only watch after their followers because they are told to, they really do not care about them at all. They just absorb the follower into them when they die, so they can increase their own power. |
"Paladine, you see the evil that surrounds me! You have been witness to the calamities that have been the scourge of Krynn... You must see now that this doctrine of balance will not work! I can sweep evil from this land. Destroy the ogre races. Bring the wayward humans into line! Find new homelands far away for the dwarves and the kender and the gnomes, those races not of your creation... I demand that you give me, too, the power to drive away the shadows of evil that darken the land!"- THE REIGN OF ISTAR, Tales IV |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 16:19:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
I don't believe he was saying that it was. I think he was refering to a homebrew campaign.
I was referring to the realms. The gods only watch after their followers because they are told to, they really do not care about them at all. They just absorb the follower into them when they die, so they can increase their own power.
This is not true. Many gods take active roles in the lives of their followers, and they do it because they care.
Labelas Enoreth, for example, went to great pains after the Avatar Crisis to try to make it up to the crew of the Realms Master for what he did to them. He went to even greater lengths to win back Vartan Hai Sylvar's regard...
Mystra is constantly looking after her followers, and has done some behind the scenes meddling in the lives of her Chosen. She's also point-blank asked Elminster and the Simbul how she was doing as a deity. And let's not forget when she personally tried to rescue him. Oh, and how about the fact that the previous Mystra spent much time in the flesh with El?
Lathander, after getting irked at one of his followers, had a personal, face-to-face discussion with her, and realized he was in the wrong.
Selūne has been known to interfere in the lives of some of her followers; she's also a personal friend of a tavern keeper in Waterdeep's Dock Ward.
Finder Wyvernspur personally recruited one of his first clerics, and spent much time with him...
Even Cyric listened to and heeded the words of one of his followers.
Those are just the examples that spring most readily to mind. Sure, some of the evil deities may match your description, but for the most part, the deities of the Realms do care about their followers. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Aldrick the Nightblade
Acolyte
37 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 16:42:51
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| Ok let me get this strait...in each pantheon, there are a set of gods for the particular people that worship them? |
"Turn your face to the shadows, and let the sun fall behind you" |
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The Wanderer
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 17:13:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick the Nightblade
Ok let me get this strait...in each pantheon, there are a set of gods for the particular people that worship them?
I believe the answer to your question is... Yes?
There are multiple pantheons (groups) of deities. Each pantheon is worshipped by a particular set of sentient beings, which can differ in race, location, or both. Between pantheons, the deitie's portfolio might even completely overlap. |
The Wanderer |
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Aldrick the Nightblade
Acolyte
37 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 17:43:23
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Wow...there is a lot of depth put into FR that I didn't even know about. The planes, the gods, the places...
Fight Strong,
Aldrick the Nightblade |
"Turn your face to the shadows, and let the sun fall behind you" |
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Gellion
Learned Scribe
140 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 23:12:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
I don't believe he was saying that it was. I think he was refering to a homebrew campaign.
I was referring to the realms. The gods only watch after their followers because they are told to, they really do not care about them at all. They just absorb the follower into them when they die, so they can increase their own power.
This is not true. Many gods take active roles in the lives of their followers, and they do it because they care.
Labelas Enoreth, for example, went to great pains after the Avatar Crisis to try to make it up to the crew of the Realms Master for what he did to them. He went to even greater lengths to win back Vartan Hai Sylvar's regard...
Mystra is constantly looking after her followers, and has done some behind the scenes meddling in the lives of her Chosen. She's also point-blank asked Elminster and the Simbul how she was doing as a deity. And let's not forget when she personally tried to rescue him. Oh, and how about the fact that the previous Mystra spent much time in the flesh with El?
Lathander, after getting irked at one of his followers, had a personal, face-to-face discussion with her, and realized he was in the wrong.
Selūne has been known to interfere in the lives of some of her followers; she's also a personal friend of a tavern keeper in Waterdeep's Dock Ward.
Finder Wyvernspur personally recruited one of his first clerics, and spent much time with him...
Even Cyric listened to and heeded the words of one of his followers.
Those are just the examples that spring most readily to mind. Sure, some of the evil deities may match your description, but for the most part, the deities of the Realms do care about their followers.
Hmmm, interesting, I am assuming those are all examples from novels? I have not read any Fr novels for a while, So I did not know about these incidents. Perhaps I shall let some of them live then. |
"Paladine, you see the evil that surrounds me! You have been witness to the calamities that have been the scourge of Krynn... You must see now that this doctrine of balance will not work! I can sweep evil from this land. Destroy the ogre races. Bring the wayward humans into line! Find new homelands far away for the dwarves and the kender and the gnomes, those races not of your creation... I demand that you give me, too, the power to drive away the shadows of evil that darken the land!"- THE REIGN OF ISTAR, Tales IV |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2004 : 00:09:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
I don't believe he was saying that it was. I think he was refering to a homebrew campaign.
I was referring to the realms. The gods only watch after their followers because they are told to, they really do not care about them at all. They just absorb the follower into them when they die, so they can increase their own power.
This is not true. Many gods take active roles in the lives of their followers, and they do it because they care.
Labelas Enoreth, for example, went to great pains after the Avatar Crisis to try to make it up to the crew of the Realms Master for what he did to them. He went to even greater lengths to win back Vartan Hai Sylvar's regard...
Mystra is constantly looking after her followers, and has done some behind the scenes meddling in the lives of her Chosen. She's also point-blank asked Elminster and the Simbul how she was doing as a deity. And let's not forget when she personally tried to rescue him. Oh, and how about the fact that the previous Mystra spent much time in the flesh with El?
Lathander, after getting irked at one of his followers, had a personal, face-to-face discussion with her, and realized he was in the wrong.
Selūne has been known to interfere in the lives of some of her followers; she's also a personal friend of a tavern keeper in Waterdeep's Dock Ward.
Finder Wyvernspur personally recruited one of his first clerics, and spent much time with him...
Even Cyric listened to and heeded the words of one of his followers.
Those are just the examples that spring most readily to mind. Sure, some of the evil deities may match your description, but for the most part, the deities of the Realms do care about their followers.
Hmmm, interesting, I am assuming those are all examples from novels? I have not read any Fr novels for a while, So I did not know about these incidents. Perhaps I shall let some of them live then.
Most of those examples are indeed from novels, but a couple came from the old DC/TSR comic books. One of the comic examples was furthered by a short story in Dragon Magazine. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2004 : 01:20:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
I don't believe he was saying that it was. I think he was refering to a homebrew campaign.
I was referring to the realms. The gods only watch after their followers because they are told to, they really do not care about them at all. They just absorb the follower into them when they die, so they can increase their own power.
This is not true. Many gods take active roles in the lives of their followers, and they do it because they care.
<snip>
Lathander, after getting irked at one of his followers, had a personal, face-to-face discussion with her, and realized he was in the wrong.
<snip>
And let's not forget that Lathander heard and answered the pleas of his followers as they faltered in their battle against Sammaster the Mad. |
"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2004 : 02:56:57
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The Realms in somewhat atypical in that, in this setting deities often come down to the Prime and personally involve themselves in mortals business, interacting with mortals surprisingly often. In other settings, such a thing does not really happen but in the Realms it's not an uncommon occurrence. Of course, deities will almost always act according to their portfolios, that is to say in you are the god/dess of magic, your actions, namely those that bring you to the Prime, will be in regards to magic and its use.
Now of course, some exceptions do exist when it comes to the behavior of deities, for example newer deities often act outside their purview, as Mystra (Midnight) and Cyric did, and thus were put on trial. In end however, the majority act according to their ethos, such as Lathander's destruction of Sammaster. As Sammaster was undead at the time it would be within their beliefs to destroy undead. And when his followers failed to achieve that end Lathander intervened to do what he clearly thought his followers could not.
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Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm
pie
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- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
Edited by - Edain Shadowstar on 22 Jul 2004 05:17:33 |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2004 : 08:02:36
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In answer to thy forbidden question Edian... We'd like to think ourselves a member 
On a side note: Jergal seems to have some sort of thing over fate as well, however, Jergal aside. You cannot say that the deities intervined upon the mortals behalf, but merely to do what they think they should do, and leave what mortals they can to stand in awe of them. When's the last time Torm helped plant a field, or Midnight pour an old man a cup of water? Never since it's realy pointless to them.
I Say that the churches lie to You, and seek only your coin to fill their pockets!
Have they protected you from famine? Have they protected you from Disease? Have they wrought harmony upon Faerun? No they have not!
-Gaal, High Priest of the Unseeing Eye
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It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
Edited by - The Cardinal on 22 Jul 2004 08:03:44 |
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2004 : 08:55:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Edain Shadowstar
In end however, the majority act according to their ethos, such as Lathander's destruction of Sammaster. As Sammaster was undead at the time it would be within their beliefs to destroy undead. And when his followers failed to achieve that end Lathander intervened to do what he clearly thought his followers could not.
Actually, Sammaster was not transformed into a lich until after his downfall at the hands of Lathander.
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"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2004 : 14:33:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Cardinal Deimos
In answer to thy forbidden question Edian... We'd like to think ourselves a member
On a side note: Jergal seems to have some sort of thing over fate as well, however, Jergal aside. You cannot say that the deities intervined upon the mortals behalf, but merely to do what they think they should do, and leave what mortals they can to stand in awe of them. When's the last time Torm helped plant a field, or Midnight pour an old man a cup of water? Never since it's realy pointless to them.
I Say that the churches lie to You, and seek only your coin to fill their pockets!
Have they protected you from famine? Have they protected you from Disease? Have they wrought harmony upon Faerun? No they have not!
-Gaal, High Priest of the Unseeing Eye
As has Savras. Maybe Mystra handed down some of her expertise in that area to her underling's underling.
An interesting topic.
To answer the original question: mostly Foe.
The pantheons I spent time developing all had many deities, following the traditions of real-world pantheons. In fact, my main homebrew pantheon had 79 actual deities (I think) and quite a few part-deities, over-deities, and beings of creation. I got to develop nearly every deity, and loved the variety they brought.
Set numbers of deities in a pantheon can too easily make things seem fake, and very 'core D&D tidy', as WotC seem to love. You could certainly develop a balanced generic pantheon with interest.
But I think it would work better if it was mini-pantheons that interacted. For example, I created a dualistic pantheon of a desert people with River-in-the-Sky, the Water Goddess of Life, and Ezekeziel, the Scorpion Shadow of Drought. They really had no need for any other gods, and the two deities portfolios really left room for flavour and conflict.
But the Realms' range of deities was one of the things that attracted me to it. I love, for example, that we have a risen archdevil AND a supreme lord of Tyranny; an insane killing machine and a similarly insane deity, but who is much more powerful; a goddess of pure love and an ex-cat goddess of sensual love; both a female and a male presence in the deities of magic. The list could go on.
And as for my set number pantheons - those I do make tend to have less than twelve (often three, four or two), but with many portfolios included in each. |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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The Generic Pantheon: Friend or Foe?
