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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 01:15:15
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Well I once jokingly told Sage not get overexcited about this book and its Planescape possibilities, in light of recent WotC books, but I'm finding myself quite excited by it now.
This interview indicates that it will touch upon several Planescape aspects - Sigil and the Factions (with factions detailed by the lovely, and trustworthy, Gwendoleyn Kestrel) - as well as presenting several planar adventures. Sounds good to me. *moves PH:AGPttP up in to-buy list*
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Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31773 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2004 : 04:22:00
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Actually, I've been rather surprised by this interview as well. Although, I think a part of WotC's plans for this tome were directed at combating Monte Cook's more PS-themed Beyond Countless Doorways which is also soon to be released (in electronic format only).
Still, I'm glad to see we'll be receiving some detailed information on both the City of Brass, and Tu'narath... Finally  . Tu'narath has always been one of my favorite planar locales to run campaigns in. I'm also hoping we will learn more about the Wormhole beneath the City of Brass. I've been wanting to expand upon that idea for years.
It also looks like the old 'planar touchstones' idea has been resurrected. That's probably to be expected, although I'll reserve complete judgement on that until I've read the relevant sections in the tome.
The elsewhale also reads like an older 2e idea that has been resurrected, and then repackaged into something new. I wonder though, how the Etherfarers will adjust to them...
I didn't read anything about the Fraternity of Order (or several of the other ousted Factions), or whether the detailing of Sigil will include information for both the pre- and post- Faction War periods.
Here's something else. What about the Spire, and the Rilmani. I didn't read anything about these eternal planar constants either...
Oh well... It's still on my list, although I doubt it move from the 'fourth' most desired tome to purchase rank that it currently occupies on that list.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2004 : 13:29:57
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| There are now wallpapers and an art gallery up for this product. Sage, I'd be especially interested to know what you think of the illustration of Sigil...something just doesn't appear right about it to me... |
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Sarelle
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
508 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2004 : 14:22:25
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| I agree Arivia - in fact the art gallery in general doesn't look too promising. *Sigh* |
Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)
My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller) |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2004 : 15:11:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
There are now wallpapers and an art gallery up for this product.
Thank you Arivia for the links. |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2004 : 01:55:48
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
or whether the detailing of Sigil will include information for both the pre- and post- Faction War periods.
I know and I'm not telling 
*chuckles like only a Yugoloth can*
As for the art, I'm thrilled to see more Steve Prescott art. I've loved his stuff for Shadowrun, and I'm glad to see him working on stuff for WotC. One of the artists, who I'll not name to be polite about it, really bummed me to see more of their art in the Planar Handbook. I didn't think it fit nor do I like their style (they're good, but I really do detest the style).
While the picture for Sigil was ok, I was more thrilled that Dana Knutson (concept artist for Planescape) was the person that WotC got to do that particular image. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31773 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2004 : 06:55:20
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I've come to expect those answers from you, Shemmy  .
quote:
Sage, I'd be especially interested to know what you think of the illustration of Sigil...
Does "utter and complete disappointment" help you to understand my thoughts on the illustration of Sigil, Arivia?
This artistic representation has made the City of Doors look more like a common Hellenic outpost in the 4th BCE, than the polluted-and heavily-influenced-19th-century-London-like city we all known and love. I'm not particularly happy with the imagery we've been exposed to so far.
I suppose it's my own fault really, for expecting something great from WotC... 
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2004 : 22:45:52
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| RPGShop is now listing this handbook as available. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2004 : 00:57:07
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I've come to expect those answers from you, Shemmy .
quote:
Sage, I'd be especially interested to know what you think of the illustration of Sigil...
Does "utter and complete disappointment" help you to understand my thoughts on the illustration of Sigil, Arivia?
This artistic representation has made the City of Doors look more like a common Hellenic outpost in the 4th BCE, than the polluted-and heavily-influenced-19th-century-London-like city we all known and love. I'm not particularly happy with the imagery we've been exposed to so far.
I suppose it's my own fault really, for expecting something great from WotC...
AAAAARRGH! Bad DM! <cracks whip the DM's way> Bad, bad DM!  Less reading and more DMing!! <whip cracking some more...>
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31773 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2004 : 15:16:14
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| Some samples from this tome are now available for viewing at WOTC's site. |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2004 : 02:26:13
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The book is in stores now. I can blab.
Shemeska got listed in the 'powerful people' section of the Sigil material. Though they use the second sh in the name spelling. ;)
However, and I'm sure this will be a point of contention: They list Her Serenity as (LN female, unknown race). I disagree with giving her an alignment, especially a LN alignment. I even disagree with saying that She's female.
I don't have the book in my hands yet, just the material I read before it went to the printers. Looking forward to it still. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2004 : 02:37:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
However, and I'm sure this will be a point of contention: They list Her Serenity as (LN female, unknown race). I disagree with giving her an alignment, especially a LN alignment. I even disagree with saying that She's female.
OY!    |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31773 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2004 : 10:56:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
However, and I'm sure this will be a point of contention: They list Her Serenity as (LN female, unknown race). I disagree with giving her an alignment, especially a LN alignment. I even disagree with saying that She's female.
That's disappointing. I was hoping that they (being WotC) would overlook the sometimes player compulsion to define who and what the Lady of Pain is exactly. It's like defining the Dark Powers from Ravenloft. These beings are deliberately left vague for a reason... they function better as tools for the DM.
I'm not going to get into the whole "purpose and function" of the LoP here at Candlekeep, but if PS devotees can't understand the reasoning for the deliberate vagueness concerning the LoP by now, they never will...
I'm sorry if that sounds a little harsh (especially coming from me), but this is probably the aspect of the PS setting that I feel most passionate about maintaining the reasoning for.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2004 : 14:44:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
Shemeska got listed in the 'powerful people' section of the Sigil material. Though they use the second sh in the name spelling. ;)
However, and I'm sure this will be a point of contention: They list Her Serenity as (LN female, unknown race). I disagree with giving her an alignment, especially a LN alignment. I even disagree with saying that She's female.
I don't have the book in my hands yet, just the material I read before it went to the printers. Looking forward to it still.
What does all of this mean for the PS3e.com release of the Guide to Sigil? Is any of that still relevant now, or do we have to accept what WotC has decided to publish about the City of Doors?
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2004 : 23:19:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
What does all of this mean for the PS3e.com release of the Guide to Sigil? Is any of that still relevant now, or do we have to accept what WotC has decided to publish about the City of Doors?
Officially the PlHB material is canon and Planewalker's is quasi canon. I'm not going to get into that debate since I'm not involved at all in us having the license or not, and under what terms we have it. It's complicated, and I'm largely ignorant on it all.
I'll preface this with: 'I've not read the whole book, only excerpts relating to Sigil and a bit more.'
However, there's very little conflict between my own work on Sigil and the PlHB detailing of Sigil in the PlHB. Both are post-Faction War, and both take place roughly 5 years after that event. My work, being over an order of magnitude larger than the detailing Sigil gets in the PlHB, goes into more depth and detail. Notable differences are some levels are different for some NPCs. They have Rhys as a Fighter 2/Wizard 15 IIRC, while we had her as a higher level Monk/Wizard. The stats for the factols were all written up by the PW people who worked on the faction writeups, not me. Shemes(h)ka loses the levels I'd given her, WotC has her as a base Arcanoloth.
WotC gives the Sons of Mercy a much larger, and quasi official role in Sigil than I did.
Where you may find the most differences are WotC's takes on the various Factions. Planewalker's detailing of the Doomguard for instance is going to vary greatly, but I don't know how much detail WotC gave the sinkers aside from the general details and a PrC. Planewalker has introduced a civil war amongst the Sinker splinter factions following the Faction War. I'd be surprised if WotC included that.
Also, we at Planewalker elevated the Ring-Giver sect to full faction status, with Jeremo the Natterer, aka 'The Lady's Jester' of the Palace of the Jester in Sigil, as their factol. WotC makes no mention of the Ring Givers at all. I don't know if they mention The Jesters Palace or Jeremo. Odd considering he's the single most wealthy individual in Sigil, and one of the wealthiest mortals on the planes.
I'm withholding judgement on the book till I have it in my hands. However most of the questions I'd asked Gwen Kestrel about the book got answered and I didn't see any glaring contradictions between my work and WotC's. No major changes needed to be honest.
As always, use what you like and don't use what you don't like. Personally I'm glad that WotC updated Sigil as being officially post FW, as opposed to no mention of the FW in the MotP. Other people may dislike that. Adjust accordingly. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31773 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 04:18:11
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Ah. I'm glad to see that the details (and hopefully the consequences) of the Faction War have not been left out. Does this mean though, that those Factions exiled from Sigil will not be receiving their own space in the tome?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 08:29:20
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Ah. I'm glad to see that the details (and hopefully the consequences) of the Faction War have not been left out. Does this mean though, that those Factions exiled from Sigil will not be receiving their own space in the tome?
No, the Doomguard get a pretty nice writeup in the book despite being more or less in self imposed exile to the inner planes. The 4 Doomguard citadels in the negative touched quasielemental planes; though since WotC officially did away withthem in 3e, they changed the 4 citadels to other spots on the inner planes. (they did a decent job, but got 2 of the 4 in the wrong corresponding element. Meh. I'm nitpicking.)
The writeup is really nice however, I like it. Each of the factions covered get a section of 'lore' involving their beliefs, legends and plothooks.
Heh, I'll be getting my copy of the book at the same time as Serpent Kingdoms. Not sure which I'll absorb first. ;) |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31773 Posts |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 18:33:56
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
So, if the Sinker's citadels are no longer on the Dust, Ash, Vacuum, and Salt quasi-planes, where on the Inner Planes were they placed?
Citadel Alluvius = Plane of Air (in a earthy and dusty part of the plane)
Crumbling Citadel = Plane of Fire
Citadel Sealt = Plane of Earth (in a crystal salt part of the plane)
Citadel Exhalus = Negative Energy |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31773 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2004 : 10:19:21
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I can understand the logic of three of those locales, but the Crumbling Citadel on the Plane of Fire just sounds so innapropriate. I hope there's some reasonable justification for why this is so...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2004 : 06:37:18
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I can understand the logic of three of those locales, but the Crumbling Citadel on the Plane of Fire just sounds so innapropriate. I hope there's some reasonable justification for why this is so...
That's the one they more or less got right...
Well the crumbling citadel should be on the plane of fire if they had stuck to the element that each corresponded to (the negative touched version of it anyways). Afterall, it was originally on the quasiplane of Ash, negative touched fire.
Going with that:
Exhalus - originally vacuum (neg. air). Instead placed in Neg Energy
Sealt - originally salt (neg. water). Instead placed in earth ?!
Alluvius - originally Dust (neg. earth) Instead placed in air ?! |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2004 : 17:56:00
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A note to all Planar fans. I found the following over at WOTC's site:
quote:
Tue, Jul 20, 4 pm PT/7 pm ET
Planar Handbook Chat
With authors Bruce R. Cordell and Gwendolyn F.M. Kestrel
Puzzled by the Planes? Drop by this Q&A chat with the authors of the new Planar Handbook that provides everything you need to create and play characters prepared for the odyssey of planar travel.
I don't recall any previous mention of the chat so I just wanted to drop a note to let everyone here know about it.
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2004 : 18:05:56
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This city is the great Sigil, City of Doors?
I expected something more.... uhmmm... impressive? |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31773 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 09:10:53
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That's correct.
I didn't mind the write-up actually. Granted it was still small (smaller than I'd like at least), but it's nice to have some official 3e source material on the City of Doors nonetheless...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 11:03:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius Andrass
This city is the great Sigil, City of Doors?
I expected something more.... uhmmm... impressive?
If you want something in more detail, we've got around 70 pages worth over on Planewalker (both new material and compilation of older material in one source). |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31773 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2004 : 11:15:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius Andrass
This city is the great Sigil, City of Doors?
I expected something more.... uhmmm... impressive?
If you want something in more detail, we've got around 70 pages worth over on Planewalker (both new material and compilation of older material in one source).
I'm sure I've mentioned that fact several times here at Candlekeep.
Anyway, Thelonius... the link to the site which Shemmy refers to in her post, is in my signature.
Enjoy .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2004 : 16:20:28
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Gaming Report had the following up this morning to remind all Planar Handbook fans about tonight's chat:
quote:
WizO_Dabus Reports: Puzzled by the planes? Drop by our Q&A chat with the authors of the new Planar Handbook, Bruce Cordell and Gwendolyn Kestrel. The Planar Handbook provides everything you need to create and play characters prepared for the odyssey of planar travel.
When: Tuesday, July 20, 4 p.m. PT (7 p.m. ET)
Where: www.wizards.com/chat in the "Wizards Presents . . ." chat room
Be sure to register your screen name far enough advance to get back the confirmation.
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2004 : 17:25:09
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| For those scribes with an interest, ENWorld now has a thread with a log for the above mentioned chat. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2004 : 16:46:38
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| ENWorld provided a link to a new review for this tome. |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2004 : 22:32:41
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Thanks for the link to the review of the PlHB. I think that's an even trade for my posting the PlHB chat log on Enworld ;)
And umm... I had nothing to do with any forthcoming incidents of angry villagers with torchs, pitchforks, and windmills in combination with any game designers once that chat log got posted... |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Planar Handbook
